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Charles Fischer

Recruiting War: Lanning vs. Cristobal

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“It’s all about the Jimmy’s and Joe’s, not the X’s and O’s” 

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On 12/19/2021 at 6:48 PM, Captaincane said:

“It’s all about the Jimmy’s and Joe’s, not the X’s and O’s” 

 

That's what we said too in the beginning.  Remember...we've been waiting four years for him to truly "get-it," hoping he would change.  You will wish for Diaz in terms of game management, and enjoy Cristobal for recruiting as we did.

 

You will be restless with him in three years, and if not--come back and remind me!  Good luck...he's yours now!

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Mr. FishDuck

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On 12/19/2021 at 6:48 PM, Captaincane said:

“It’s all about the Jimmy’s and Joe’s, not the X’s and O’s” 

 

I realize Cristobal hasn't been head coach for a Miami game yet but i'm going to have to call a time out on this comment.

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Mario is a great recruiter. If he could learn the CEO aspect of his job then he would be right up there with the great ones. This means hiring great coordinators and coaches and letting them do their jobs. It also means striking a fine balance between schmoozing boosters and also telling them to back off. He is in desperate need of great facilities, but they need to come with no strings attached. 
 

These will all be big challenges for him. He had been known to meddle in the offensive scheme which killed creativity and innovation. He never had to deal with difficult boosters. Phil Knight was around long before him and knew the needs of the program. He also never had to worry about facilities. He had world class facilities in a several acre plot on the north side of the Willamette. These don’t even include the new indoor practice field that’s being built to replace the Moshofsky. 
 

Mario can only preach so long to these new recruits about how he, Armstead and Perryman didn’t need nice facilities or new equipment to win championships. Kids these days aren’t programmed like that. They want it all and they want it now. 

Edited by DrJacksPlaidPants
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I know little of Oregon football ………you know less about Manny Diaz as a coach. The man never played a down of HS or College Football. His claim to fame as Miami’s Coach is “the Turn-Over Chain” and his father having been Miami Mayor.  South FL is arguably the most talent rich area in the nation.  Manny’s 2022 class (before being fired) was #66. In less than 1 week MC improved UM’s ranking to #49, and stole a TE from Alabama-Saban. 
 

Alabama - Saban’s  …………is the  premier coach in CFB history and his record is based on Recruiting ………not X & O’s. Saban consistently has top 5 recruiting classes but changes coordinators continually. Based on MC’s history within 3 years or less …………he will be stacking top 10 recruiting classes into perpetuity. And y’all know that!

 

But glad to hear that both fan base are happy. 
 

MD=21-15 (0-2 bowls)

MC=35-13 (2 of 3 bowls)

 

 

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By all means keep feeling thrilled with your new coach but you may want to pay closer attention to the fact that after four years of Mario ball, there aren't that many folks around here that are sad that he's gone. Great recruiter but way to stubborn and self assured to learn from his many coaching mistakes.

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Captaincane....you have been a reasonable poster, and a great representative of Miami.  But please take note...I am a 35 year season ticket holder and the owner of a site that covers/analyzes Oregon football for the last ten years.

 

Mario Cristobal is the worst in-game manager I've ever seen as a coach at Oregon.  (He was actually booed at a home game this season!) His offense only averaged 31 points per game this last year, and you may want to read my article from yesterday right here.   It blew up yesterday for over double the usual pageviews, and our Sunday writer could not come through...so my article from Saturday continued as the lead article today.  Even today it got a typical great day's pageviews....so two days in a row.  Guess the subject?

 

The player development under Cristobal has been the worst of any coach in memory, and do note the mental mistakes covered about halfway down in this article for a preview of what you will see. (Remember that this critical article was written before Cristobal left for Florida)

 

You think he will change...but after four years we know he will not.  He is not the greatest recruiter at Oregon, as Willie Taggart had a higher class going until he decided to leave and Mario saved most of it, but not all. 

 

I give both Taggart and Cristobal enormous credit for breaking the recruiting glass ceiling at Oregon.  But if your name is not Saban...you have a flaw as a coach.  For Diaz and Helfrich at Oregon...there was a recruiting weakness, among many others.  For Mario...it is in a ton of places. but not recruiting.

 

You will want to check back in two years and keep us updated, as there is much more to coaching than recruiting.

 

Mario Cristobal_247 Video.jpg

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Mr. FishDuck

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On 12/18/2021 at 1:01 PM, DrJacksPlaidPants said:

That’s recruiting. I Can’t blame Mario. He built those relationships and has the time invested in those players. That said, he had better produce fairly quickly because he is being funded by “new money” boosters.
 

These guys aren’t old heads like PK. They  pulled together a ton of money in a short amount of time. They’re not just starting out with new uniforms and a branding change. They’re all in. They want it all now. Unlike PK who started slow and eventually built up the infrastructure while keeping the nucleus of coaches around. The history of Oregon’s football program is like a spring fed river. They bubbled to the surface with PK’s help and have maintained a steady flow ever since.

 

Miami is expecting a deluge of rain to get their river flowing. They want a quick return on their investment. They’re paying Mario a lot of money to make that flood happen. However, the worst thing that could’ve happened for him happened when Dabo had a down year. Clemson is now perceived as vulnerable, so if Mario isn’t at least an ACC champion in two seasons then he’ll be on a short leash. He’ll definitely be fired after 3 seasons with no conference championship and Clemson isn’t going away.

Well I said after 4 but more than likely after 3 seasons your right he'll be fired from his dream job. A great coach usually when he gets the job he wanted his staff comes with. Well lets be honest here as I don't believe that his staff liked him a whole lot. The only coach that followed him yep you guessed it Minnie Me.

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I’ve read your great forum for a while now ………and few Oregon fans wanted MC to leave ………now y’all are passing the bitter cup convincing each other that recruiting is secondary.  I lived in Alabama for 8 years and here’s a few facts: “ Nick Saban’s Crimson Tide landed the top-ranked recruiting class every year between 2012-17, then again in 2019 and 2021. Georgia won the recruiting title belt in 2018 and 2020. This season, Alabama signed the highest-rated class in history. Strange that the Crimson Tide reach the College Football Playoff virtually every year, isn’t it?” 
 

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On 12/19/2021 at 8:37 PM, MaiTaiDuck said:

The only coach that followed him, yep, you guessed it, Minnie Me.

 

Oh my gosh....you have no idea how funny that is to yours-truly and a Duck-Buddy of mine.  If it was not so late on the East-Coast...I would call him and howl about this nickname.  I wish you had shared it sooner!

 

Great stuff MaiTaiDuck!

 

Alex Mirabal coaching Jacob Capra_KC.jpg

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Mr. FishDuck

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On 12/19/2021 at 8:40 PM, Captaincane said:

y’all are passing the bitter cup

 

My fellow green friend...I never, EVER said that recruiting is not important.  But it is only the base; you must have players develop once you get them, and there must be a strategy to use them effectively.  Had Mario stayed....we would have had an exodus of player out via the portal.

 

But hey--I wish you the best!

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Mr. FishDuck

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For Miami fans a newly favored son is returning home as a savior for the new old U program.  Maybe The Rock will play him in a movie someday?  The Chrystal Ball?

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Charles Fischer - great response I enjoyed the read and respect your experience-knowledge. I’m dirt old and I’ve been a loyal Cane fan for 55 years ………even when living in Anacortes WA. I’ve been there for UMs EIGHT national championship games and 5 title wins. You may be right with your opinion and interpretation of data …………and then maybe not. As you know COORDINATORS are critical to the performance of any team.

 

I believe that Mario will hire better coordinators for Miami …………maybe not. Also as you may know …………UM has one of the best young QBs in CFB. QB VanDyke a freshman was ACC of the year. He threw for 6 consecutive games of about 350 yards. Behind him is Californian Garcia a high 4 or 5 star QB. 
 

To me here’s the bottom line: Oregon was 10-3; UM was 7-5. The Miami fans believe that MC can do better than 7-5, can MC win our 6th NC …………Unk but there are people betting $8M a year that he can improve the program. 

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I'm glad that I won't be bored watching UO football. Anyone's offense will be more entertaining than I watched these Cristobal years!

 

I won't have to watch Mario call time out before the first play of the 2nd half ever again.  

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Captaincane....Oregon had a OC that had one of the best national reputations, certainly better than the rumored hire of Coach McClendon for Miami.  Yet Cristobal trashed his reputation as an OC, and now he has recovery work to do.  

 

It actually will not matter who is OC...and please see the sixth post in this thread.  You will see, my Florida friend...you will see.

 

How about a Gentleman's bet?  I will bet a case of Oregon Craft Beer IPAs vs. two boxes of premium Florida oranges that your quarterback's stats will decline next year under Cristobal.  ???

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Mr. FishDuck

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Just a couple quick responses.  Not sure why Mario will suddenly hire better coordinators but I guess it is possible.  He has a lot of hiring experience as we had five different coordinators during his four years.

 

As for quarterback he had the 2020 NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year who didn't even make first or second team all Pac-12.  Is that a coach who gets the most from his players?

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Charles Fischer - I’m not challenging your knowledge but I’m questing your interpretations. Facts and history just don’t support your conclusions. Can’t develop talent? Below NFL prediction draft and record at Alabama. 

1. Detroit Lions: Kayvon Thibodeaux, Edge, Oregon

Penei Sewell,  st round, #7 pick. 
 

I do not think that MC slept walked through 4 years with the GOAT @ Alabama and has forgotten what he learned. Or won two National Championships playing for Hall of Fame coaches Jimmy Johnson and Dennis Erickson. 
 

Cristobal's Alabama offensive line was awarded as the nation's best in 2015, winning the inaugural Joe Moore Award given to the toughest, most physical line in the nation.[13] His offensive line ranked in the top 25 nationally in sacks allowed in each of his first two seasons. Alabama's offensive lines produced standout players and NFL draft picks under Cristobal, including first-team All-American and 2015 first-round draft pick Ryan Kelly and 2014 freshman All-American Cam Robinson, who went on to win the Outland Trophy in Cristobal's final year with Alabama.[14]

 

perhaps we can continue our enjoyable exchanges later. It’s late on the east coast. 

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I like Mario as a person and his recruiting skills, I might sue him for my liver damage due to his play calling in game but my lawyer says not to go into specifics.  That said what Mario taught me was recruiting was important but not everything... it's like lincoln riley relying offense or kirby smart relying on defense and then getting clobbered... you need both... recruiting and coaching and offense and defense to win the big games.

 

I wish mario the best at Miami and I'll definitely be curious to see how he does.

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On 12/19/2021 at 9:43 PM, Captaincane said:

Charles Fischer - I’m not challenging your knowledge but I’m questing your interpretations. Facts and history just don’t support your conclusions. Can’t develop talent? Below NFL prediction draft and record at Alabama.

 

And yet Herbert the QB that has set more NFL records than I can count was looked at by many as a bust because of how he played at Oregon.  Provide an example of where Mario has coached up talent instead of just handing off talent that was already seen as a first round draft pick coming out of high school.

Also being successful on a championship team 30 years ago does not mean you'll be a championship coach.

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On 12/19/2021 at 7:28 PM, Captaincane said:

Everyone loves a “win - win situation “. You guys are happy to be rid of Mario ……………we’re happy to have him!  Sorted! 

That’s been my point of view all along. MC will be great for Miami. He’s an excellent recruiter, a solid guy, and will do a great job getting the U back on track. Meanwhile, Oregon was never going to be able to recruit players so good that the Ducks could consistently win despite his coaching, and his boring, low scoring, offense was killing the Oregon brand. Everyone wins. 

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Miami Fans,

 

I wish you the best of Luck with Mario, to change the U's direction.  Everyone should be proud of his or her team every season.  Pride reflected in the program, athletes representing your school.  Best Wishes.

 

As an Oregon Fan, I will say, I look forward to the opportunities that Dan Lanning represents to Oregon Football, HOPE.  Hope that Oregon provides an entertaining and competitive football team.  Hope that the coaches take young men and build strong, competitive athletes, that work as a team.  Hope that strong performances lead to consistent wins elevating the schools ranking at the highest levels.  Hope that success leads to athletes getting into the Pros or fulfilling educational goals and success in life.  Hope that the coaches realize the efforts may lead to upward mobility and national recognition with compensation.  GO DUCKS!

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On 12/19/2021 at 6:28 PM, Captaincane said:

Everyone loves a “win - win situation “. You guys are happy to be rid of Mario ……………we’re happy to have him!  Sorted! 

CaptainCane, be prepared to go down with the ship, when Admiral Cristobal flubs, fumbles, and flounders, as he surely will. There is only one victor in this scenario, and it assuredly is not the USS Miami. 

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It is very simple - Mario's record is 62-60. Mario is a recruiting champ and coaching chump. The Miami kids played hard for Manny. Do not expect the same with Mario whose team often shows up completely unprepared for the game.

 

Bowl wins? Include a 1 point win over a multi loss MI ST team, a 1 point win over 3L Wisconsin and a complete no show L vs Iowa State in the Fiesta Bowl.

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     Nothing new here. Fans will always see the glass as half full on their side, and half empty on the other.

 

     Not going to badmouth Mario for what he’s good at. That’s how he got the job in the first place — by letting the players talk our swishy-washy AD into hiring him. He can recruit — period. 

 

     However, that should be a strength for DL going toe to toe. The before and after picture with MC has more than enough evidence to suggest to any recruit MC can’t deliver on what he promises. DL can capitalize on that. 

 

     In some ways, MC reminds me of Ernie. Both were (are) great recruiters, but the only real success both ever had was when they had superior field generals (Justin Herbert, Luke Ridnour). Take that away, and their coaching deficiencies became obvious.

 

     Mullens needs to go. It’s becoming apparent he’s more concerned with his ‘national committee’ image than he is with his obligation to Oregon’s success. Just another Peter Principal  case: kick him upstairs.

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Axel, thanks for the well wishes. Why wasn’t MC fired from Oregon for poor performance?  Oregon tried to keep MC ………until it became clear he was off to Miami.  He only became a loser after he decided to leave. 
 

UM’s  been mediocre for 20 years thru 4 coaches since playing for 9 National Championships and winning 5. Mario is a big upgrade for us, but ………Why would Mario return to Miami? A few thing you know, some you don’t and more you don’t understand or care about. 

 

CULTURE: MC is Cuban-American first generation ………his parents exiled from their home only 90 miles fm FL by a brutal communist dictator. His parents arriving in Miami with nothing. Thousands of Cubans lost their lives in the FL straights fleeing on rickety boats and rafts. Miami welcomed the Cubans ………it is now their home ……their refuge. The Cuban family and culture is unique. There is a bond between Cubans and Miami like no other location.  At midnight you can find Cubans at the crowded Versailles Restaurant on SW 8th St (Calle Ocho) drinking Cuban coffee, eating a Medianchoe sandwich and still talking about Brigade 2506, Freedom Flights and pontificating about Cuba becoming free. Most presidential hopefuls make the obligatory appearance at the Versailles ………the political oasis for Cubans. Miami is the home of millions of Cuban-Americans …………even if they don’t live there ……the force is strong.  And MC, although 1st generation is still Cuban. 

 

FOOTBALL. As you know MC as a player won 2 National Championships at Miami. He’s coached at …or In miami for 20 years. He knows every high school in South Florida intimately and still has relationships with most of the coaches. Within a 90 minutes drive he can reach arguably the most concentrated HS football talent in the nation ……leaving home after breakfast ………visiting 4-5 high school football powerhouses and be home for dinner. This compared to flights and days away from home recruiting CA.  The $$ was similar in Oregon or the Canes and I believe the path to a NC is easier for the Canes because of the abundance of talent in SoFl.   Nick Saban can’t live forever. 
 

MC Returned for the above reasons but none as strong as his sick mother, his brother, aunts-uncles, his friends, his former teammates, his college, and because as a Cuban-American ……………Miami will always be home!

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