FishDuck Article Administrator No. 1 Share Posted April 6, 2022 The biggest myth in college football is that teams in the Southeast — specifically the SEC — are successful because “it just means more” to them. Fans residing in this part of the country love to boast about how dedicated their programs and fanbases are to football excellence, and they believe that dedication drives their success. New Oregon offensive coordinator ... Does Oregon Need to Have An SEC Mindset? | FishDuck FISHDUCK.COM The biggest myth in college football is that teams in the Southeast — specifically the SEC — are successful because "it just means more" to them. Two Sites: FishDuck and the Our Beloved Ducks forum, The only "Forum with Decorum!" And All-Volunteer? What a wonderful community of Duck fans! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 2 Share Posted April 6, 2022 Way to call it for the truth Joshua, as yes their fans are fervent--but that is not the major reason for the success of the SEC. Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haywarduck Moderator No. 3 Share Posted April 6, 2022 I think what Kenny is speaking to is the dedication to making Oregon a place where recruits want to come to. You are right we are at a disadvantage when it comes to location to talent. We are at an extreme advantage when it comes to a place where student athletes want to come to play, live and compete. Nobody west of Texas is even in the top 20 in facilities, except Oregon at #1. This is an advantage for the student athletes who want to, or are willing to leave home to play football, or really any sport. The Oregon Athletic Programs are evidence of this advantage. Look at our basketball program and how they rank in recruiting. Look at our facilities for Track and Field, and the whole University academic facilities. Oregon is the most impressive place to come learn, and compete in the country. Slick didn't invent this, Mario didn't make this, they just realized it and leveraged it. This is what Kenny is talking about. It is a competition for the kids who are willing to leave their hometown, home state, and we can dominate this group, with effort, and intention. When it is said, 'it just means more' it does mean more, we have put more money, and effort into it than any program in the nation. We have built it, and they will come, if we have the staff that both realizes the advantage we have, and puts a product on the field student athletes want to be part of. The Old Oregon was just that, we have to become that again, and DanLan is bringing it back! 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quackerbacker No. 4 Share Posted April 6, 2022 Agree with you Hayward. The money spent on football in the Southeast is way more than what programs spend out west. That is what the "means more" is all about. From that perspective it does mean more in the Southeast. In recruiting the Southeast goes all out for top recruits and admittedly they do have a lot more in their own backyard. Out west who recruits as hard as say Alabama or Georgia? No one did until Mario came to Oregon and we started leveraging our facilities and opportunities at the U of O to compete with the SEC schools (I should include the Big 10 in this). We can compete with them because it does "mean more" at Oregon and we have put the money into our facilities, coaches, and academics to compete. It's Mighty Oregon folks and you better watch out for us, we are coming for a National Championship! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph No. 5 Share Posted April 6, 2022 (edited) Another great take. Thanks Joshua. Fertile recruiting ground, money and sorry, but it does kind of mean more. South Carolina, a mediocre at best CFB program, sells out close to a 100,000 seat stadium for every home game. This, in Columbia, SC, a city roughly the size of Eugene. In general, folks down south give more of a whip about HS football and CFB than do folks out west. The SEC has far more 4M+ viewer watched CFB broadcasts than any other conference. The SEC leads year after year in recruiting as you so noted, and also leads year after year in the number of players who move on and up to the NFL. I do agree with the coach's take, Oregon is located in a small city where fans give a whip and fervently, since Oregon became a big time brand, support Ducks football. But would the Ducks consistently sell out a 100,000 seat stadium? Sell out for a game versus The Citadel? Utah and UW fans care and show up. SC fans show up when SC is winning. Stanford can't sell out its 50,000 seat stadium when Notre Dame comes to town. The Rose Bowl was full when LSU played UCLA. Why? Because of the number of Tigers fans who tripped west for the game. I ponder over what the 'SEC mentality' is today? Watching the UGA D last season was to me, watching old time SEC brute force football. But watching Ole Miss on O and D in 2021? More like the old B12 rubric, all O and no D. Completely agree with you when it comes to recruiting. To win a title you must have a Blue Chip roster; 50% or more 4 and 5 star recruits on the roster. And in reality, you need closer to 70% of the players to be 4* plus guys. It was tough enough to win a title when you had to win 1 game vs a quality opponent. Now you have to beat 2 quality opponents in a row and this # will expand when the playoff expands. At least 1 of the elite teams you will have to beat to be a champion will more than likely come out of the SEC. Thanks again, always enjoy reading your takes. Edited April 6, 2022 by Jon Joseph 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haywarduck Moderator No. 6 Share Posted April 6, 2022 Let me double down on what our strength is, our facilities and being a small school. While I agree Autzen isn't going to sell out a 100,000 seat stadium, but we aren't a big school. We would be above Vanderbilt in enrollment in the SEC, but at the bottom of those schools. We aren't trying to mask our smaller school vibe, that is a strength. We can't compete with Texas ATM, at 47 undergraduates, nor U of South Carolina at 25k students. We also don't have a major metropolitan areas around Eugene, but that is our strength. It is also why WSU sometimes does well. There are kids, and parents who want to get away from the major metro areas. If we hit those kids hard we will come away with enough 4 and 5 star talent. That is what brought DAT, and others. The other area is our innovative schemes and reputation. If DanLan brings that back we can win it all and preserve our reputation as the best small school environment, with The Best facilities. I will add if we try and compete with for a kid who is swayed by Texas ATM, we will undoubtedly lose 9-10 times. We aren't a big college and that should never be our sales pitch, and I am sure it isn't. You can do big things at the U of O, but you won't have to deal with the big problems of the metro areas. Pound for pound, it means more, here in Eugene Oregun! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck 1972 No. 7 Share Posted April 6, 2022 I say our coaches have to spend more time and out work any other staff outside of the PAC (USC excluded) to get the talent to compete nationally due to the obstacles named above. To me this is a no brainer. I posit that this could cause burnout for our coaches and thus will possibly cause repercussions on the field. As far as a difference between the South which I include Texas. I moved to Houston in the 80s and when my native friend and I started driving around I would see these large football stadiums so I would ask which college it belonged to. He would chuckle and inform me it was a HS. 30k capacity for a HS. I was overwhelmed. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJacksPlaidPants Moderator No. 8 Share Posted April 6, 2022 Good recruiters know what kids want. They want to be treated like kings, they want the best gear and facilities, and they want championships. But, most of all, they want to go to the NFL. The NFL is the biggest driving force behind the transfer portal mayhem. Everybody wants to start because it brings exposure. Exposure brings scouts. Right now, the SEC schools can sell that. So can Oregon. That’s why Mario got highly ranked classes. The new staff has to be able to coach their players up well enough to get them draft worthy. The exposure will come because of the Oregon brand and winning tradition. However, it could all go away very quickly like we saw with Helfrich. If coaching, recruiting or scheme falters then exposure, winning and brand will follow. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanLduck No. 9 Share Posted April 6, 2022 Us "left coasters" can't understand the mentality of the south when it comes to football. Unless we've been there, lived there...can't grasp it. Filling up a stadium is the single most important metric of 'fan'aticism. We don't have it out west unless the team is winning. That said, fans don't play the game. But fans let their kids play football, and that leads to their development into blue-chip studs who play close to home, cuz, it just might mean more. Dillingham's comment has merit, but having such an immense recruiting backyard is certainly a key element. As others have so accurately pointed out, too many blue-chippers have headed east from out west. If U$C and Oregon can slow that tide, it will benefit most of the Pac12 because I think it will encourage more players to stay here (in the west). The $$ usc spent shows they want to be serious, finally. Will see if it pays off, or more importantly, rubs off on fellow conference mates. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haywarduck Moderator No. 10 Share Posted April 7, 2022 It makes me wonder if there is a way of qualifying recruits who might be interested in coming to Oregon. I suppose the most important question is, interested and would be resilient enough to stay and excel? I know in sales there are hot leads and cold leads. Salesmen go after the hot leads and make sales. What makes a recruit a hot recruit for Oregon. There are probably plenty of recruits who just want to see the best facilities in all of college football. Oregon needs to bring onto campus guys who truly would be interested in coming to Oregon, not just looking around. It use to be hard just to get recruits onto campus. Now, it would seem, it is hard to figure out which guys are really interested in coming to Oregon and being a Duck or just want to check it all out. Tough job, and expectation for all these coaches and recruiters, that is for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Whitted No. 11 Share Posted April 7, 2022 On 4/6/2022 at 11:06 AM, Charles Fischer said: Way to call it for the truth Joshua, as yes their fans are fervent--but that is not the major reason for the success of the SEC. That, in a nutshell, is the crux of my argument. I do think plenty of SEC programs invest more in football than the Pac-12, but I don't think that is the biggest determinant of their success. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Whitted No. 12 Share Posted April 7, 2022 On 4/6/2022 at 8:31 AM, Haywarduck said: I think what Kenny is speaking to is the dedication to making Oregon a place where recruits want to come to. You are right we are at a disadvantage when it comes to location to talent. We are at an extreme advantage when it comes to a place where student athletes want to come to play, live and compete. Nobody west of Texas is even in the top 20 in facilities, except Oregon at #1. This is an advantage for the student athletes who want to, or are willing to leave home to play football, or really any sport. The Oregon Athletic Programs are evidence of this advantage. Look at our basketball program and how they rank in recruiting. Look at our facilities for Track and Field, and the whole University academic facilities. Oregon is the most impressive place to come learn, and compete in the country. Slick didn't invent this, Mario didn't make this, they just realized it and leveraged it. This is what Kenny is talking about. It is a competition for the kids who are willing to leave their hometown, home state, and we can dominate this group, with effort, and intention. When it is said, 'it just means more' it does mean more, we have put more money, and effort into it than any program in the nation. We have built it, and they will come, if we have the staff that both realizes the advantage we have, and puts a product on the field student athletes want to be part of. The Old Oregon was just that, we have to become that again, and DanLan is bringing it back! Yeah I wanted to be very careful not to blame Dillingham at all, as he's far from the only person to perpetuate the narrative that I discuss in the article. Unfortunately, I think it kind of speaks to my argument that Oregon is #1 in facilities and our best recruiting class ever wasn't even a top-5 class nationally. It's not the fault of anyone at Oregon, it's strictly a geographical issue. Not one that Oregon can't overcome, but it takes a staff full of elite recruiters. I do think we have a group of recruiters capable of taking us to high heights, though! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Whitted No. 13 Share Posted April 7, 2022 On 4/6/2022 at 12:29 PM, Quackerbacker said: Agree with you Hayward. The money spent on football in the Southeast is way more than what programs spend out west. That is what the "means more" is all about. From that perspective it does mean more in the Southeast. In recruiting the Southeast goes all out for top recruits and admittedly they do have a lot more in their own backyard. Out west who recruits as hard as say Alabama or Georgia? No one did until Mario came to Oregon and we started leveraging our facilities and opportunities at the U of O to compete with the SEC schools (I should include the Big 10 in this). We can compete with them because it does "mean more" at Oregon and we have put the money into our facilities, coaches, and academics to compete. It's Mighty Oregon folks and you better watch out for us, we are coming for a National Championship! Yeah, I definitely don't disagree that plenty of SEC programs invest more in football. I just don't think that makes as much of a practical difference as their fans seem to think -- at least not nearly as much of a difference as their proximity to talent does... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Whitted No. 14 Share Posted April 7, 2022 On 4/6/2022 at 3:00 PM, Duck 1972 said: I say our coaches have to spend more time and out work any other staff outside of the PAC (USC excluded) to get the talent to compete nationally due to the obstacles named above. To me this is a no brainer. I posit that this could cause burnout for our coaches and thus will possibly cause repercussions on the field. As far as a difference between the South which I include Texas. I moved to Houston in the 80s and when my native friend and I started driving around I would see these large football stadiums so I would ask which college it belonged to. He would chuckle and inform me it was a HS. 30k capacity for a HS. I was overwhelmed. I had a similar experience when visiting Texas, it is truly a different world when it comes to football down there. The fact that they're a factory for top high school prospects makes it all the more surprising that UT hasn't bounced back in recent years. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quackerbacker No. 15 Share Posted April 7, 2022 The proximity to talent is huge no doubt. But if you haven't lived in the south and seen how high school football is treated down here, it's just different. There are a few programs notably in California that really take football seriously but it's no where near the scale you see all across the southeast. High school football stadiums are on par with alot of group of 5 stadiums and they fill those stadiums on Friday nights. Top High school coaches in the south make good money. The mindset is different. But Oregon is different than just about any other school in the Pac 12. The fans have a similar attitude to fans in the Southeast. We have invested in everything to be competitive with the best the SEC and the Big 10 has to offer but it will take a little time. Just look what happened to Clemson when they got serious about football. It took a little while but eventually with a little luck they turned the corner and became one of best programs out there. Clemson is in a area with more talent close by but in todays day and age with technology I think that is mattering less and less. We are on the verge and I think if we can hold this staff together for a few years and a little luck we to can turn that corner. I'm keeping my fingers crossed with this staff but I got a good feeling about them. My green colored glasses see a rosy future for our ducks! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck No. 16 Share Posted April 7, 2022 On 4/6/2022 at 9:13 PM, Quackerbacker said: Clemson is in a area with more talent close by but in todays day and age with technology I think that is mattering less and less. Great point, one that Scott Frost didn't see coming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Waddler Moderator No. 17 Share Posted April 7, 2022 This geography vs culture argument is pretty interesting. But, can’t say if it’s one thing or the other. Think they’re intertwined - they bounce off each other. While there’s no way you can dismiss the advantage of being close to home, what keeps you home is the strength of culture; and the south has that in spades. My time in the south taught me numerous things, but one thing indelibly: there is a line non-southerners can’t cross in trying to get to know some deeply-rooted southerners. When that relating point is touched, there’s a shut down. It becomes you against him; us against them. Without falling off an historical cliff which is - aside from pointless - nowhere I want to go, suffice to say the line I experienced felt like a kind of indelible mark of difference that saturates - for some - this southern sense of self, and flows through every aspect of southern life including the symbolic battleground of football. It can take the artificial and make it real. We westerners are as serious about our football as those in the south are, but we also maintain a sense of humor about these self-imposed images. I remember once passing a USC fan at Autzen and saying, “welcome to Duck country condom”, and him replying, “thanks, dinner”. We’re serious, but not so serious as to not laugh at ourselves. That’s harder to do with southern football fans. Case in point: had a quick encounter with an Auburn fan before the Natty during which I shared with him my western sense of humor. I said to him, you guys sure have more than your share of imposing mascots, and went on to say, “all you need is to add one more, and I’d feel like Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz saying, War Eagles, Tigers, and Bears, oh my!” Not even the glimmer of a grin - just a transfixed stare. He then instructed me that, no, there is NO Bear. There are ONLY War Eagles and Tigers. End of encounter. I think things are slowly changing. Football-wise, maybe we are getting a little more SECish, and them a little less resistant to the outside world? Maybe that’s why we are seeing more southern recruits willing to jump ship and take a chance on Oregon. So, while you can’t take the south out of the recruit, in a changing world, you can sometimes take the recruit out of the south. Go Ducks! 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph No. 18 Share Posted April 7, 2022 On 4/7/2022 at 3:42 PM, Washington Waddler said: This geography vs culture argument is pretty interesting. But, can’t say if it’s one thing or the other. Think they’re intertwined - they bounce off each other. While there’s no way you can dismiss the advantage of being close to home, what keeps you home is the strength of culture; and the south has that in spades. My time in the south taught me numerous things, but one thing indelibly: there is a line non-southerners can’t cross in trying to get to know some deeply-rooted southerners. When that relating point is touched, there’s a shut down. It becomes you against him; us against them. Without falling off an historical cliff which is - aside from pointless - nowhere I want to go, suffice to say the line I experienced felt like a kind of indelible mark of difference that saturates - for some - this southern sense of self, and flows through every aspect of southern life including the symbolic battleground of football. It can take the artificial and make it real. We westerners are as serious about our football as those in the south are, but we also maintain a sense of humor about these self-imposed images. I remember once passing a USC fan at Autzen and saying, “welcome to Duck country condom”, and him replying, “thanks, dinner”. We’re serious, but not so serious as to not laugh at ourselves. That’s harder to do with southern football fans. Case in point: had a quick encounter with an Auburn fan before the Natty during which I shared with him my western sense of humor. I said to him, you guys sure have more than your share of imposing mascots, and went on to say, “all you need is to add one more, and I’d feel like Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz saying, War Eagles, Tigers, and Bears, oh my!” Not even the glimmer of a grin - just a transfixed stare. He then instructed me that, no, there is NO Bear. There are ONLY War Eagles and Tigers. End of encounter. I think things are slowly changing. Football-wise, maybe we are getting a little more SECish, and them a little less resistant to the outside world? Maybe that’s why we are seeing more southern recruits willing to jump ship and take a chance on Oregon. So, while you can’t take the south out of the recruit, in a changing world, you can sometimes take the recruit out of the south. Go Ducks! Excellent take. There are 'serious' CFB fans in the Pac-12 footprint but not close to the number down south. One reason? Many the SEC teams are in small cities and towns that do not have NFL teams. And the interest in HS football is far greater down south than it is in the Pac-12 footprint. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck No. 19 Share Posted April 7, 2022 On 4/7/2022 at 12:42 PM, Washington Waddler said: Case in point: had a quick encounter with an Auburn fan before the Natty during which I shared with him my western sense of humor. I said to him, you guys sure have more than your share of imposing mascots, and went on to say, “all you need is to add one more, and I’d feel like Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz saying, War Eagles, Tigers, and Bears, oh my!” Not even the glimmer of a grin - just a transfixed stare. He then instructed me that, no, there is NO Bear. There are ONLY War Eagles and Tigers. End of encounter. Thank you, I can definitely see this! War Eagles in necessary because LSU is also "Tigers" which has to be maddening to both teams. I'm not even able to comeup with Vandy's nickname 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathis No. 20 Share Posted April 7, 2022 (edited) On 4/7/2022 at 2:47 PM, Jon Joseph said: Excellent take. There are 'serious' CFB fans in the Pac-12 footprint but not close to the number down south. One reason? Many the SEC teams are in small cities and towns that do not have NFL teams. And the interest in HS football is far greater down south than it is in the Pac-12 footprint. As someone that has lived in Oregon, Arkansas and (currently) in Texas, this is 100% accurate. Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas etc don't have professional teams to rally behind, so college athletics rule the day. Here in Texas people can rally behind any number of professional programs, but having spent time in Arkansas, the Hogs are all they have...and that leads to a fanaticism that is unmatched almost anywhere. The same goes for Mississippi and Alabama. I suspect Oregon is similar in that we have the Blazers, but aside from that it's our Ducks or the River Rats. That alone allows a fanaticism in Oregon that doesn't extend to Washington, California or Arizona... Edited April 7, 2022 by Wrathis 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph No. 21 Share Posted April 7, 2022 On 4/7/2022 at 4:13 PM, 30Duck said: Thank you, I can definitely see this! War Eagles in necessary because LSU is also "Tigers" which has to be maddening to both teams. I'm not even able to comeup with Vandy's nickname Vandy = The Commodores Too many Tigers, including Mizzou, + Clemson and not enough Gamecocks roaming the south.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck No. 22 Share Posted April 7, 2022 On 4/7/2022 at 3:53 PM, Jon Joseph said: Too many Tigers, including Mizzou, + Clemson and not enough Gamecocks roaming the south.. Wildcats is off the top of my head most common. UCONN shares Huskies with some irrelevant team from somewhere. Bears, Baylor, Cal, Bruins are a type of Bear. The Ducks play Cougars twice in a row, BYU, WSU next season. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck No. 23 Share Posted April 7, 2022 On 4/7/2022 at 3:53 PM, Jon Joseph said: The Commodores Let's go back to 1977 my friends, this is "Easy" by The Commodores" 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Waddler Moderator No. 24 Share Posted April 7, 2022 On 4/7/2022 at 3:53 PM, Jon Joseph said: Vandy = The Commodores Easily forgotten because it’s easily shortened to Commodes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Duck No. 25 Share Posted April 8, 2022 This, in Columbia, SC, a city roughly the size of Eugene. In all fairness, the Eugene-Springfield metro area has a population of about 180,000. The Columbia SC metro area has a population of about 850,000. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck 1972 No. 26 Share Posted April 9, 2022 This is an example of the difference in population density in the rest of the country and the West. The odds are there are going to be more and better players with higher population. The West is at a disadvantage from the start just because of this, let alone the difference in culture. This shows why USC is the only bluebird out west. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck 1972 No. 27 Share Posted April 9, 2022 On 4/8/2022 at 2:15 PM, Desert Duck said: This, in Columbia, SC, a city roughly the size of Eugene. In all fairness, the Eugene-Springfield metro area has a population of about 180,000. The Columbia SC metro area has a population of about 850,000. See my above post 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
