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12Duck72
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Posts posted by 12Duck72
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On 6/16/2023 at 2:45 PM, David Marsh said:
and some Duck fans annoying angry that this is happening because some see the death of the Pac-12 as something to celebrate
No one I know is "celebrating " or would be happy if the conference folded. I haven't seen any posts like that either around social media. Maybe we are looking at different sites.
I think most fans like me see the writing on the wall and want what's best for the university. Let's say there is a deal David and they get the "bronze medal". How sustainable is that long term? The Ducks can't always rely on Phil Knight's money.
And for the all of the reduced share complaining. 50 million for the next few years until the new media deal compared to the 20 to 30 range I'm hearing is a lot better deal in my book.
It obvious to me the powers that be (TV) do not want a west coast conference. They want and will eventually get 2 conferences and college football will look like the NFL.
I think all of this sucks. The reason I love college football is because it's NOT the NFL. We've spent almost a year now arguing about media deals than actually talking about football, baseball, etc.
Question is how long do you hold onto a dying conference? For a lot of us, you pull the trigger sooner rather than later when the chaos happens. We are not happy or excited about it but that's the situation unfortunately.
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So let me get this straight. On 13 June they send a letter saying they "intend" to leave the conference. Ok, fine.
MW says "cool" and starts the process by first removing their Pres off the board which is what you'd expect them to do.
Then they send another letter saying the first wasn't really a resignation but that they're "just exploring all their options " and oh BTW can we please have an extension past 30 June so we don't have to pay the huge fee.
This whole mess has gone from a fiasco to the Twilight Zone. No way the MW is agreeing to that. I wouldn't and neither would you.
The elephant in the room here folks is no one has seen the media deal. Obviously someone told them a number and a time line and they jumped the gun. And surprise, surprise it didn't pan out.
We can talk and debate about verbal agreements and all of that but until there is actual contract in writing all of it is just noise. If the numbers don't add up, schools are going to bolt. Again, where's GK in all of this?
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So maybe Canzano and his "sources" should give the Arizona President Robbins a call and fill him in.
He did an interview with Finebaum and said he hasn't heard anything about it.
Man, I can't wait for this to be over.
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On 5/28/2023 at 7:35 AM, Jon Joseph said:
With all due respect, you should have no beef with Canvano or Wilner. 2 reporters who have done nothing to spin the media deal in one direction or the other and have named every source cited in their articles.
Compare this to McMurphy and Dodd and many others who are stirring the pot to line their own pockets. Coming close to liable by reporting such nonsense as ESPN is no longer interested in a deal. This may prove out, which I very much doubt, but as of now, this is idle, unsourced speculation.
If the Pac was a public company the SEC could be investigating this flaming journalism to see if there was an orchestrated plan to hurt the value of the stock.
Look at the issues the B1G is having finalizing its deal with three media companies that have all broadcast college football. Add to these problems an economy down from when the B1G went to the market. And going into negotiations the B1G also had the advantage of Fox owning 61% of the B1G Network.
GK has or had a no-media partner financially insolvent network to sell and GK is attempting to bring on board a streaming entity that has never streamed college sports. And having to sell streaming to his constituents.
I am as impatience and have as been as critical of the operations of this conference as anyone else has been. But my frustration does nothing to alter market conditions or ease the transition of college sports from linear broadcasts to being streamed.
There is a dynamic in the introduction of any new technology. IMO, streaming does not just have the potential to do away with linear sports broadcasting, as evidenced by ESPN's recent announcement that it is moving to stream all sports events, it will do so and do so sooner than later.
There were folks who calculated the risk and bought Microsoft stock when the company first went public. Today, we call these people billionaires and millionaires. First in on streaming could receive a similar ROI.
A Forum poster the other day suggested that the conference should go for a share of the revenue generated from athletic events being streamed. If I am on the streaming side of the table I might be insisting on this to protect my bottom line instead of offering a fixed dollar amount. Either way, I think this was one heck of an idea but an idea that many tradition-bound folks will have trouble accepting.
But now I am speculating so I'll zip it and wait for Godot to show.
The point I was making about Canzano was in response to David's comment about people not liking him for whatever reason when he was at the Oregonian. Don't know the man, hence I have no beef.
Regarding the rest of your comments Jon, this is what I was talking about. People are going to believe what they want to believe based on what they want to see happen. I'm not going to try to change yours or anyone else's mind. If you want to believe everything Canzano says is golden and he has no agenda, cool man. You do you.
My interpretation of facts stated by multiple people on the record is different than yours. That's life bro. If we all thought alike we wouldn't have anything to talk about right? I'm old school so I'm not even going to to wade into the streaming/cable talk so I'll have to leave that to you guys to hash out.
But in the end, hopefully someday, this will work itself out to the conclusion it was meant to.
Remember when sports was a diversion from stuff like this? I miss those days....it's just sports after all. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
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On 5/27/2023 at 8:57 PM, David Marsh said:
It comes down to who do you trust and who has earned that trust.
I have found that I will tend to trust Canzano over other sources I'm not as familiar with most because they are usually outside of the pac-12s orbit.
Personally I find that Canzano, at least on his new site, has been rather measured and has done a great job with sourcing in other non-conference related stories. He often says he has sources that are from within many of the universities and I feel he has probably built those relationships to get some information.
Now is he going to be right? Maybe who knows, we'll find out when it all finally goes down. But I don't feel he is going out of his way to sensationalize every tidbit of information he says.
One of the things I find that is trust worthy is one of the lines where...
It's a short response and it at least feels like it's coming from an source. Obviously we don't know exactly who the source is but it feels like a reasonable response.
He's not giving us crazy numbers, just a comment. Now I know my personal bias is that I'd like to see the Pac-12 continue to exist. I've even gone on the record saying how he collapse of the PAC would be awful for the whole sport.
Why the Pac-12's Survival is in Everyone's Interest
FISHDUCK.COM
We are firmly back in the off-season, and conference realignment talk is back in full force. There has been...So I personally like the sound of that quite.
Could Canzano be wrong? Absolutely!
Though he has really gone out of his way for this new venture of his to do solid reporting and knowing the clicks will come and not just create clickbait.
Canzono has always been well networked. I know he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way when he was at the Oregonian and if you're one of the, that's fine, you do you. I'm just sharing my perspective.
I guess that's part of my point David. Depending on where your leaning on this subject is who you are going to trust.
If folks want the PAC to stay together of course they're going to look at comments by Canzano and others as trustworthy or legit because that's what they want to hear.
Same goes on the other side. If people want the B12 to poach teams or the Ducks go to the BIG10 then they're going to trust writers like Dodd or whoever because that's what they want to hear as well.
I've got no beef with Canzano, Wilner, Dodd, McMurphy, Scheer or anyone else you can name. I like to listen to all sides.
They're all reporters and all of them have sources. I just get tired of the "I don't agree with him or her so they're just fake news" that goes on in our public discourse.
Anyway the sooner this is over the better in my book. Enjoy your weekend
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On 5/27/2023 at 11:12 AM, Charles Fischer said:
Below is from today's John Canzano article and has the most truth, the most sense of anything out there right now.
Q: Fast forward to June 30. Pac-12 Commissioner George Kliavkoff has presented best media offer to Pac-12 presidents which has come in at $18 million per school. What happens next?
A: $18 million? Per school? What happens next? Your alarm clock goes off. You wake up, nightmare over. I reached out to a source with direct knowledge of the Pac-12’s negotiations and asked “still feeling confident about beating $31.6 million per school?” The answer came back: “We are.”
Q: What is your gut feeling about the Pac-12 future?
A: My educated opinion has not shifted or wavered — the Pac-12’s 10 remaining members will stay together. The conference will announce a shorter-term media rights deal that ends in 2029 or 2030. It will add San Diego State, and maybe, one other school (SMU). And we will do this dance all over again in five years or so.
Q: Any truth to the rumor about Colorado being iffy with the Pac-12?
A: Let’s recap. Colorado athletic director Rick George has said numerous times that his school wants to be in the Pac-12. He told Jon Wilner and me in our podcast: “Why would you want to be in a conference where there’s 16 to 18, when you can be in a conference that is 10 to 12? Your opportunity, particularly when the top six-rated conferences have automatic (College Football Playoff) bids and the top-four have automatic byes, why would you leave?”
This week, he told Brian Howell of The Boulder Daily Camera: “You’ve got to believe about a third of what you see out there. We’re members of the Pac-12, we’re proud members of the Pac-12 and we’ve got to see where our media rights deal lands and where our conference goes. In a perfect world, we’d love to be in the Pac-12, but we also have to do what’s right for Colorado at the end of the day. We’ll evaluate things as we move forward.”
Is that a flip flop? The gloom-and-doom crowd may be reading it that way because they’re hoping and wishing, but I’m not going there. Unpack his words carefully. I hear George reiterating that his school likes being in the Pac-12, wants to stay in the Pac-12, and still needs to see the final deal. The AD is right — Colorado and every other school must do what’s right for itself.
I also think George might be pandering to the CU crowd that desperately wants the school to explore other options, particularly the Big 12. His comments walk that line. Remember, George also told Wilner and me that no Pac-12 school is leaving for a couple million more in media rights money. It has to be game-changing money to even be a consideration. For that reason, I don’t think Colorado is going anywhere.
GK at Pac-12 Baseball Tournament having more fun than negotiating with ESPN...
I'm not trying to start an argument but who's truth are we talking about here? Canzano's? If folks want to believe everything he says is gospel ok fine. That's your choice.
Me, I don't know who his "sources" are any more than I know who's Dodds or Mcmurphy or anyone else's is.
Everyone is spinning a narrative including John Canzano.
And yes, I know some of our fellow great commentators on this awesome site will point out they feel he's the most "accurate ".
But I could write multiple posts about how he's been wrong like everyone else.
Personally, for me, enough is enough already. If the deal is so great, announce a tentative agreement. Stop with the garbage about "We are still dotting the I's and crossing the T's".
The BIG announced theirs and they're still working on it right?
If it sucks, let the schools decide what they want to do.
I don't care at this point either way but the fact we have heard nothing from GK about any of this lately is unforgivable.
Say what you want about Yormark and Co. but at least they're out leading their conferences. Yes, part of leadership is the PR game.
I agree with you Charles, Oregon is going to be just fine in any conference.
As I've said before, to those of you who believe the PAC can survive all this I say "keep the faith brothers and sisters "
From where I sit there are alot of cracks forming in the dam.
Happy Memorial day to all my fellow veterans out there.
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Ok. State was simply the better team. No shame in that at all. Well done Ducks. Use this experience and continue to grow the program.
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On 5/21/2023 at 3:37 PM, HappyToBeADuck said:
I will root for any team who plays against the huskies. They are despicable.
Well said Happy. Tip of the cap to you my friend.
To answer your question Charles, no it's never OK or acceptable to cheer for the JV school up North. Ever. We all have our stories like Happy about the Fuskies and their "fans".
BTW, love your posts about them whining about recruiting. Keep it coming!
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On 5/14/2023 at 8:21 AM, Jon Joseph said:
One way or another this too shall pass.
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I think when this is over someone should do an article about who was closest to being correct about all of this. There are people, on both sides of this, who are going to have some explaining to do.
I'll say this Jon. I still think UO ends up in the B10 by the time the next contract comes around. No way they can leave the 2 LA schools out west by themselves long term. Sooner? Maybe. We will see. But to me this saga is just another example of bad PAC leadership. The shoulda, woulda, coulda's for this conference over my lifetime is staggering. Including right up to not taking the contract the B12 got and completely losing the narrative of what's going on now.
Yes there are always outside factors that you mentioned. That's what leaders are for. We've had Hansen, Scott and now George. I've seen nothing from GK that gives me any confidence at this point. Maybe he will surprise me but I'm not betting on it.
Time will tell I guess. For those folks who still want to believe there's a way for the PAC to survive this I say "Keep The Faith!". Stranger things have happened.
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On 5/13/2023 at 10:20 AM, Jon Joseph said:
I prefer to rely upon WSU and Pac-12 executive committee member, President Schulz
Of course WSU and their President are going to be out spinning that everything is OK. Like the Beavs when this thing implodes they are going to be on the outside looking in. Not right but it is what it is.
People can chose whom or what to believe. Right now, Fuskie sites are saying Memorial Day the Ducks and the team up North are gone. Is it true? IDK
You make a fair point. There's a lot of different "scoops " out there that it gets tiring trying to sort it out.
Personally, and I don't think I'm alone, I just want this done so we can all move on with our lives.
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On 5/8/2023 at 12:35 PM, NJDuck said:
Oh man, the "Puddles" uniforms. I've tried to forget these even existed. Such a bad time for the program.
Dressing like the mascot is never a good idea.
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On 4/30/2023 at 12:58 PM, David Marsh said:
One other observation is that I had about the dline v oline is I don't remember a whole lot of sacks. Sure lots of defensive pressure that forced some errant throws but I don't remember a lot of sacks.
Last year I do remember a lot of sacks.
I believe they weren't allowed to touch the QB's. I saw a lot of guys run past that probably would have been a sack.
I agree with folks that the defense looks improved especially the secondary. Lots of contested throws and there was some pressure up front. I'll be happy with an average D but by the end of the year they might be pushing elite status. Here's hoping.
No too worried about the offense for reasons everyone has mentioned already. They'll be fine.
I read the article by Canzano about the atmosphere in the program. I love what DL is doing with this program. I was a little nervous when they hired him but he clearly was the best choice.
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The fact that the coach from South Florida was really going after this guy and he still chose Oregon is all I need to know about his intelligence. Yes, I'm that petty and no I won't let it go.
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Everyone's got to do what they feel is best for them. Good luck to these young men.
Interesting comments from Brown where he said he could've been a portal guy last week. Seems that was in his head already. Be interesting to see where he ends up.
Wonder if any of them land in South Florida.
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Good article Jordan but I don't agree with the point the finger at fans strategy. To me it's a bad look. Want people to spend their hard earned money and time on your program? Put out a product that is going to make people want to come. Questioning someone's loyalty or support because your team doesn't play defense, can't shoot and looks like they don't care at times is not the way to bring fans back.
This reminds of a certain coach in South Florida who whined to the media about fans booing his bad play calling.
I remember when the men's and women's programs were rolling they didn't have any problem filling that building. Altman needs to look in the mirror and figure out what needs to change.
Also, and I'm going to sound like an old guy, but when are they going to change that court? I get the history and the art part but man that's hard to watch on TV
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On 3/20/2023 at 11:12 AM, Jon Joseph said:
will Oregon be able to make enough money off on the field and on the court success to say thanks but no thanks to the B1G?
That's an interesting thought. For me personally, I would take the guarantee of what the BIG 10 or any conference was offering.
If the program takes a downturn that affects your bottom line. Depends on how you look at it I guess.
Probably why I'm not an entrepreneur, I like security and you can't always fall back on Uncle Phil's generosity IMHO.
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Great article Charles. I've been staying out of the realignment talk lately because it has been getting nasty and personal between fans of each conference, sports writers and anyone with a keyboard. Much like the rest of our society, sports talk is turning into a "us vs them" food fight where if someone has a different opinion than they must be spreading fake news. For me, sports and more importantly OBD are a fun distraction from all of this and I love watching competition.
Your article sums up how I have felt all along. I grew up with the PAC 10 and like you have watched how this conference has let everyone pass them by. We all know the history of bad decisions and lack of caring. It's a damn shame because this conference should be one of the big boys.
I don't want the Ducks to leave. I really don't. However, after watching how all of us have built this program up from the school with Donald Duck as a mascot to a nationally known and respected brand I would hate to see it all wasted on staying in a conference that I believe is on it's last legs.
Yes, they may sign a deal and keep it together for a few more years. Ok fine. But long term it is just not sustainable and the BIG 10 will have to address USC and UCLA being out on a island for the reasons everyone has mentioned.
When BIG 10 calls, and I believe they will at some point, Oregon has to go.
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On 3/5/2023 at 10:37 AM, Kurt Rambis said:
For every report that the Pac-10 is about to expand, or sign a deal, or that the Big12 is about to poach schools, the money has dried up, schools are looking to leave, it'll all be streaming, or anything else, there are other reports of exactly the opposite.
Some people naturally tend to be pessimists, so I believe they gravitate towards the "the sky is falling" reports. Others tend to be optimists, so I believe they gravitate towards the "be patient - it'll all be fine" reports. Likely one side or the other will be proven very right.
I guess the reason why I'm a pessimist Kurt is because I read an interview the AD at ASU did with a local station and the President of OSU went on Canzano and said they haven't even seen a deal yet after 9 months and that they are hoping that numbers will be close to the BIG 12. She also stated that unequal revenue sharing was discussed. That never works out.
These aren't sports writers, these are people who are in the room. Doesn't instill much confidence.
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On 3/5/2023 at 11:37 AM, Jon Joseph said:
FOX 'owns' the B1G. No teams will be added to the B1G without the consent of FOX and media money being available at least within shouting distance of SC/UCLA.
I doubt that anything realignment-wise will happen before the Pac-10 new media deal is revealed. Part of the delay may well be due to Oregon and UW bargaining for a no-cost exit if invited to join the B1G. For certain, OR ST and WA ST will not receive a B1G invitation. Academically, ASU is likely also out of the mix.
You're probably right about that Jon. It's going to be interesting to see the spin from folks when/if some official numbers get released. If the deal is bad or below what the narrative is look out dominoes could fall quickly. There will be a few teams out west who are going to be left without a chair if that happens. Time will tell.
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Interesting article. I believe the BIG 10 knows better than anyone else that they cannot leave USC and UCLA on an island out west long term. If Kevin Warren had his way the Ducks and that school up North would already be in. My opinion is it's just a matter of time. Maybe a short term PAC deal delays things till the next round of TV contracts but even that is iffy to me at this point.
I keep reading people saying the LA schools are sell outs, traitors, only looking at the money, etc. I'll admit when this first happened I kind of felt the same way. But let's be honest. If the BIG 10 came calling for the Ducks and well, I'm not going to say the Fuskies because screw them. Let's say it's Oregon and OSU and promised 70 to 75 mil a year. We would all be saying you can't turn that down.
I can care lees about what happens to the other 9 schools. If that makes me a traitor so be it. Oregon needs to look out for Oregon. At some point the BIG 10 will need to address this issue and Ducks need to position themselves to be ready.
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I know there is a lot people who think all this is just "clickbait". So I will just post this fron CBS Sports and do a disappearing Homer.
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It sure does Kurt. I feel like at this point sometime soon the dam is going to break on all this and college football is going to change again. My only concern is the Ducks being apart of it which they should be.
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Well now that this officially done. I think DL and Oregon handled this well.
Once they were presented with new evidence they had enough integrity to change course. That's a good sign. A lot of people wouldn't have.
My only question is why did he have a gun in the first place?
SDSU Gives Notice to Leave Mountain West Conference
in Our Beloved Ducks
Posted
Let me see if I can answer your questions as briefly as possible which is hard for me sometimes lol.
This conference has been falling behind for years. Remember there is a very good reason why LA schools bolted. You can call them traitors all you want but it was a sound financial decision. Will all the travel offset that? Maybe we will see.
The money gap between the SEC, BIG10 and everyone else is going to increase as the years go by. I admire those of you who feel that PAC should just hold on, hope for the best, expand with schools that 2 years ago no one wanted and maybe by the next contract this will work out better.
I'm not that optimistic fellow Duck fans. There is already going an exposure issue with TV and if this is an all streaming deal that's not going to be any better either.
And add on top of that the incompetence of the leadership that this conference has suffered through the years and that's what I'm talking about.
The chaos I'm referring to is on multiple fronts. What if Colorado and Arizona go now? What happens if ND finally grows a pair and joins a conference? Eventually at some point the ACC is going to join this mess. Then it's every man for himself.
Look I get I'm in the minority around here which is fine. I can take the heat. I guess I'm just amazed at the blind loyalty to this conference from some of you. I admit I don't get it. I don't care what happens to the other 9 schools and if joining the MW meant the Ducks had a seat at the big table so be it.
Sorry Happy, I was trying to be brief.