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FishDuck Article

Under Cristobal: No Promised Land Without Dramatic Changes

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On 10/3/2021 at 9:36 AM, jrw said:

Was the Ohio State game a fluke?

 

 1 time out of 10, Oregon will beat Ohio State?

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On 10/3/2021 at 9:35 AM, 30Duck said:

 

I understand what you're saying. If the Ref hadn't made the call, the Ducks would have won. But it would have been the ugliest of the 5 this season. The Ducks got called for targeting on the opening kickoff! Scored 7 in the first half. On the Ducks final drive, Brown threw a pass when an incompletion stops the clock. When Stanford had to go 95 yards in the final minutes, the Ducks gave them 30 of them with penalties.

It was a bad call by the Ref, but I feel like the Ducks made more bad moves before that.

 

Yes, but I stand pat on the fact that the Ducks did what they had to do and won the game. This is an illegitimate loss (or victory for Stanford) in my mind. 

 

Granted they may have played ugly in the first half, but what I watched in the second half was pretty solid, I mean they won 17-0 in the second half. Definitely should not have thrown an incomplete pass on 2nd and 18 with less than 2 minutes in the game.....no doubt that was a bad play call, but if it had worked then I guess we would be having a different conversation.

 

I guess I am just wondering how much of this anger and angst towards Coach and the players would be happening if the correct call on the field had been made. Insidious are the things that divide.

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On 10/3/2021 at 9:47 AM, C J said:

 

Yes, but I stand pat on the fact that the Ducks did what they had to do and won the game. This is an illegitimate loss (or victory for Stanford) in my mind. 

 

Granted they may have played ugly in the first half, but what I watched in the second half was pretty solid, I mean they won 17-0 in the second half. Definitely should not have thrown an incomplete pass on 2nd and 18 with less than 2 minutes in the game.....no doubt that was a bad play call, but if it had worked then I guess we would be having a different conversation.

 

I guess I am just wondering how much of this anger and angst towards Coach and the players would be happening if the correct call on the field had been made. Insidious are the things that divide.

 

I have seen many articles and comments discussing Cristobal’s prevent offense.  With the talent the Ducks had, they should have never been behind Stanford.  The horrific calls by the refs were just icing on the cake.

 

Here is what would have saved the game.  A fast acting offense that could eat up chunks of yardage on the ground.  Say, if you are 1 & 20 with 3 min to go on the clock, you should still be a threat with the run game against Stanford’s run defense.  

 

They aren’t and that is a systematic problem.

 

Cristobal’s offense is built so that if anything goes wrong- it breaks down.  The penalties are not the problem.  The inability to overcome the penalties is the problem.

 

 

 

 

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On 10/3/2021 at 9:36 AM, jrw said:

Now that the playoff bubble has popped, does this team have the character to play hard the rest of the season?

 

Why have highly-rated wide receivers if the ball is never thrown?

 

How can Mario justify not starting Thompson now?

 

What is up with Moorhead and this "non-covid-related illness"?

 

How much of this loss is on the players?

 

Was the Ohio State game Oregon's true potential or a fluke?

To continue the questions…

 

How many bandwagon fans jump off the bandwagon now?

 

How loud does the cry to “Dump Mario” get?

 

When does GK to something about the abysmally poor referees deciding the outcome of PAC 12 games? 
 

When will the targeting rule be fixed?

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The Pac-12 refs have a history of being inadequate at best. This was know before the game started. Greatness never lets incompetence of another effect the outcome of their desired path. They plan for it, and never put themselves in a situation where it can effect their goal.

 

There was much ineptitude on and off the field, we can't isolate the mistakes of the refs as the cause of our demise. The cause was on the sideline, and was on the field, it rests with the leadership of the Oregon Football Program. 

 

In order for us to have a different outcome we need to see a shift in how our program is led on and off the field. The Oregon Football Program isn't going to change, but there needs to be a metamorphosis in how we play football. A new qb will be a start, but we need to see a striking alteration in how we play the game of football at Oregon.

 

If we blame the refs, that sea change is never going to happen. We should fear blame and accept responsibility, while seeking truth!

 

I mean power football is fine, but how do you justify lining up your qb 5 yds away from the line of scrimmage when the qb sneak is known to have an 89% success ratio in the situation at the end of the half? You took something which had a 90% chance of success and gave it little chance, this is madness. There is a massive disconnect between intelligent power football and what we are seeing. Even if you accept power football as the answer, it is the decision making process which is the problem, plain and simple.  

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On 10/3/2021 at 10:27 AM, Haywarduck said:

The Pac-12 refs have a history of being inadequate at best. This was know before the game started. Greatness never lets incompetence of another effect the outcome of their desired path. They plan for it, and never put themselves in a situation where it can effect their goal.

 

There was much ineptitude on and off the field, we can't isolate the mistakes of the refs as the cause of our demise. The cause was on the sideline, and was on the field, it rests with the leadership of the Oregon Football Program. 

 

In order for us to have a different outcome we need to see a shift in how our program is led on and off the field. The Oregon Football Program isn't going to change, but there needs to be a metamorphosis in how we play football. A new qb will be a start, but we need to see a striking alteration in how we play the game of football at Oregon.

 

If we blame the refs, that sea change is never going to happen. We should fear blame and accept responsibility, while seeking truth!

 

I mean power football is fine, but how do you justify lining up your qb 5 yds away from the line of scrimmage when the qb sneak is known to have an 89% success ratio in the situation at the end of the half? You took something which had a 90% chance of success and gave it little chance, this is madness. There is a massive disconnect between intelligent power football and what we are seeing.  

Its mind boggling and frustrating.

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On 10/3/2021 at 10:32 AM, 1Ducker1 said:

Its mind boggling and frustrating.

But it's like complaining about the opponent stars running back, just take care of your game and your won't have to play the blame game. You know he is going to be playing plan to make sure he doesn't dictate the game.

 

You can't just say if 'x' wasn't playing we would have won. Right now Oregon is one little, or maybe not so little mistake away from having to play the what if card. We can't be that kind of program.

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On 10/3/2021 at 6:05 AM, 30Duck said:

Yeah, the adage about insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, is playing out with Mario's Ducks. We were nervous before the game against Stanford and watched as our fears were realized. Oregon never looked smooth on offense, the lack of Morehead certainly accounted for some of that, but with him or without him, Brown was still the QB.

 

The defense wasn't much better, until the 2nd half when Stanford was out of gas. But then the Ducks got started going down the one way street the wrong way, and Stanford yanked another one from Oregon. As bad as the PI was at the end of the game, the Ducks fell behind at the start all on their own.

 

The timing is perfect for Thompson to start against Cal after the bye. 

This goes beyond personnel.

 

There is a QB in his second year in the NFL that is better than TT.  His name is Justin Herbert.

 

Many a person will disagree with my premise.

 

Justin Herbert has a natural feel for the game that TT lacks.  Despite my "belief" in the extraordinary JH, he struggled  immensely under MC's tenure as HC.

 

There is a "structural flaw" in MC's program.  It's a mental aspect that so far is a  constant factor one should consider as the reason Oregon has reached its peak as a title contender.   

 

You don't see that flaw in perennial championship caliber teams.  

 

Until that flaw is destroyed, the pattern we see emerge ever so consistently will continue.

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Coaches need to understand their players  strengths and weaknesses. It is imperative that they do so, and coach accordingly. QB Anthony Brown is an adequate QB, but adequate is not enough here.  He does not have to be great, or even pretty good.  He does need to be good. Historically, he completes 50 to 55 percent of his passes....and this is as a 6 yr player. We don't need 75 percent accuracy, but 50 %, with balls thrown consistently behind the receivers, with not being able to be accurate for the most part past 5 to 7 yards is NOT WORKING.

 

As coaches need to understand the players weaknesses and make adjustments, they need to understand their own. This is where I see major flaws in MC.  He is one of the best recruiters in college football, he is a man of good character , intense work ethic and more, but he is either blind to certain things about his own strengths and weaknesses or just plain stubborn. Whichever it is, i don't care, but unless he can fix that problem by first acknowledging it and then doing something about it, we are going to continue to see the head coach contributing to our losses . 

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On 10/3/2021 at 10:52 AM, webfootfan said:

unless he can fix that problem by first acknowledging it and then doing something about it, we are going to continue to see the head coach contributing to our losses . 

 

Powerful...whew!  And true.  GREAT post.

Mr. FishDuck

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On 10/3/2021 at 10:45 AM, Mike West said:

This goes beyond personnel.

 

There is a QB in his second year in the NFL that is better than TT.  His name is Justin Herbert.

 

Many a person will disagree with my premise.

 

Justin Herbert has a natural feel for the game that TT lacks.  Despite my "belief" in the extraordinary JH, he struggled  immensely under MC's tenure as HC.

 

There is a "structural flaw" in MC's program.  It's a mental aspect that so far is a  constant factor one should consider as the reason Oregon has reached its peak as a title contender.   

 

You don't see that flaw in perennial championship caliber teams.  

 

Until that flaw is destroyed, the pattern we see emerge ever so consistently will continue.

Mike...you say there's a "structural flaw" in the Oregon program, but don't really identify what that flaw is, other than it's mental.

 

Can you clarify what you think the flaw is?

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Mike West - 'structural flaw' nails it.

 

We see highly touted recruits not coming together to play team ball.

 

2 false starts on what should have been a game sealing drive. If that's not on coaching then who or what is it on?

 

That is simply undisciplined play. Undisciplined play that cannot be excused by the age of the roster.

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On 10/3/2021 at 11:02 AM, Jon Joseph said:

Mike West - 'structural flaw' nails it.

 

We see highly touted recruits not coming together to play team ball.

 

2 false starts on what should have been a game sealing drive. If that's not on coaching then who or what is it on?

 

That is simply undisciplined play. Undisciplined play that cannot be excused by the age of the roster.

I'm honestly asking this question: why are false start penalties not the fault of the players? Why is the coach to blame for them?

 

Is David Shaw a poor coach because the Cardinal had - what? - at least 6 false start penalties in the game?

 

It seems to me that, because the coach is the only person who can be fired, that the coach takes a disproportionate share of the blame. Maybe that comes with the territory, but still.

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*This was in response to DuckIt’s post on FISHDUCK.

 

In previous posts I have mentioned Oregon’s propensity to lay an egg, or two, at some point during the season, often on the road, would once again detail their season. Yesterday it happened. I’m pretty sure they will lose another game or two.

 

Have you ever heard anyone say they were out coached by Cristobal? Certainly out-recruited, but never out-coached. His coaching is really hurting this group of 4 and 5 star players, whose raw talent and ability is being squandered by insisting  on playing smash mouth football, instead of taking advantage of his players’ athletic gifts. He is coaching them down, not up.

 

The quarterback position has reached a crisis point. A change must be made, immediately. Two weeks to the next game….. make the change now. Get Thompson ready. He’ll make his own share of mistakes, for sure, but no more than Brown is making now, and he will gain valuable experience. The Ducks need to make use of their talented young receivers, who with a strong armed, more accurate QB, will be able to stretch the field and open up the offense.
 

And DuckIt you mentioned KT, Sewell and Flowe, all fabulous players whose ability is showcased every week. Why? Because they play defense! You can’t stifle their speed, tenacity, strength, drive. Well, perhaps we have offensive players that may rival their ability, but under Cristobal’s antiquated coaching we may never know. He’s recruiting 4 and 5 stars and turning them into 3 stars.

 

Last week I posted that despite being 4-0, “Why do I feel the sky is about to fall?”

 

Well, it fell and it may fall again unless the Ducks make some blatantly obvious necessary changes.

 

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On 10/3/2021 at 10:45 AM, Mike West said:

There is a "structural flaw" in MC's program.  It's a mental aspect that so far is a  constant factor one should consider as the reason Oregon has reached its peak as a title contender

I wholly agree with this as we all saw how badly MC used Justin Herbert. The QB is probably the most visible player on the team so its easy to see, it also makes you wonder about other positions as well. 

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On 10/3/2021 at 8:49 AM, 30Duck said:

but the pass was so badly thrown the defender couldn't catch it either. 

Good point. Man, the truth hurts.

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On 10/3/2021 at 11:11 AM, DUCKED said:

*This was in response to DuckIt’s post on FISHDUCK

 

Have you ever heard anyone say they were out coached by Cristobal? Certainly out-recruited, but never out-coached.

 

On 10/3/2021 at 11:11 AM, DUCKED said:

Ohio State was out-coached by Cristobal's staff, and through that Cristobal. My bet is it wouldn't happen again as it is painfully obvious to just about everyone the programs weakness, except the one guy in charge, who can't seem to see it. Maybe he will, but he was out-coached yesterday.

I quote, "Rallying around the absences of multiple key players, the Ducks played inspired football, while Ohio State was flat. Head coach Mario Cristobal and his staff completely outcoached and outclassed Ryan Day and the Buckeyes."  https://sportsnaut.com/oregon-stunning-upset-over-no-3-ohio-state/

 

 

 

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My apologies if I am repeating points made previously. I am getting to this discussion a bit late. 

 

Despite the absences of Morehead, Forsyth and Bennett Williams, despite the spotty play of QB Brown and despite the unsuccessful 4th down play at the goal line in the first half, according to ESPN Oregon had a 99.9% chance of victory with about 2:30 minutes remaining in the game. The 0.1% chance came to pass because of three things working in conjunction: 

1. The two false start penalties in a quiet stadium that left Oregon facing a 1st down and 20 situation with about 2:15 remaining. 

2. The incomplete pass thrown on second and seventeen in that sequence. 

3. Three calls by the officials within the last 90 seconds, any one of which would have be considered highly questionable. 

 

Conclusion: the game was not a masterpiece, but Oregon played well enough to win under anything resembling normal circumstances. 

This was a painful defeat, but I think that we ought to be cautious about drawing sweeping conclusions at this stage.  

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You're correct again Charles. 

It's time for Mr. Thompson to take the reins. I too thought AB could get it done, but alas, not so.

With CJ most likely gone for the season, we need a qb that can throw the ball down field.

Having 2 weeks before a weak Cal game seems the perfect time. Be a head coach MC, make the change!

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Injuries and youth aside, this team looks weak at times. Huge upside but not there yet. 
 

My best predictors for winning football are Run the ball, stop their run, pressure the qb.

 

The Ducks don’t consistently dominate at any of those. 

 

two first downs needed late in the game. Control your destiny. The offense should have won this game.
 

That they couldn’t only reinforces the idea that the offense isn’t really that good.

 

Now that the playoff aspirations are essentially done, is it time to start giving younger players real snaps? WR, RB, QB? 

 

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On 10/3/2021 at 12:16 PM, Vandownbytheriverduck said:

two first downs needed late in the game. Control your destiny. The offense should have won this game.

Absolutely.  My axiom..."first downs at the end of the game are as important as touchdowns earlier in the game."

 

And if Brown would have pitched to an open Verdell on the play before half...Oregon would have been up 14 points at the end and this is all moot.

 

And great to see you here again.  The gang are all coming back!

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Mr. FishDuck

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Spot on Charles, and Canzano was spot on today too...

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Its time for a change at QB1, no offense anthony but it's TY time, we can't get to the promised land with 50 percent passing 

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On 10/3/2021 at 11:29 AM, Haywarduck said:

Ohio State was out coached by Cristobal’s staff….

 

I have to agree…..that was an excellent coaching job by Cristobal and his staff. What the hell has happened since then?

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On 10/3/2021 at 10:45 AM, Mike West said:

This goes beyond personnel.

 

There is a QB in his second year in the NFL that is better than TT.  His name is Justin Herbert.

 

Many a person will disagree with my premise.

 

Justin Herbert has a natural feel for the game that TT lacks.  Despite my "belief" in the extraordinary JH, he struggled  immensely under MC's tenure as HC.

 

There is a "structural flaw" in MC's program.  It's a mental aspect that so far is a  constant factor one should consider as the reason Oregon has reached its peak as a title contender.   

 

You don't see that flaw in perennial championship caliber teams.  

 

Until that flaw is destroyed, the pattern we see emerge ever so consistently will continue.

“Justin Herbert has a feel for the game that TT lacks.” How do we know? Let’s put the kid in there and see what he can do.

 

 

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