Quarterback Quandary: What Would Former Oregon Coaches Do?

[FishDuck Article]

It is a common discussion over the years for Duck fans–which quarterback do you want to see playing? The current controversy brought about by subpar-play of Anthony Brown has ignited the Oregon message boards hot with discussion, although only the Our Beloved Ducks forum is a safe place (for free) to post your thoughts. I was discussing this quarterback situation ...

 

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[Smith72]

I think Belotti would go with someone who could throw accurately and able to complete the deep throw.  His passing offense needed a throwing QB.

 

I fondly remember all the deep throws to Samie Parker.  Beating the Huskies in Seattle and the Fiesta Bowl 2 of my favorites!

[Haywarduck]

I am not sure asking what past coaches would have done is a valid question because Cristobal doesn't want to do what any of the previous coaches have done, even if it was successful. From my understanding he would do what a collaborative committee of coaches would do so that is an even more confusing question. 

 

Even if we look at what other programs are doing it seems we don't get a good look at what Cristobal is going to do. Most top programs have an ongoing completion, and if you don't succeed it is time to give somebody else a chance.

 

We seem to have more of a family type of decision process where the parents discuss what will be the best thing to do for their number 1 son. They then go on to become the enabling parents no one wants to become. 

 

Like I posted on another thread I have a very bad song in my head for the Ducks right now. When questions arise this same negative beat gets played in my head. I need Cristobal to help get something else going when we play Cal. For now it is like I am stuck in one of those collaborative committee meeting the big boss has when he makes one of those large decisions, like what to do on 3rd down.

 

 

[Charles Fischer]

I am very concerned that Cristobal could turn off a ton of very loyal Oregon fans from what I am reading in this forum.  it would be tempting to say within three games, but it is really the pattern set over three years, the tease of Columbus, and then back to boring football.

[NJDuck]

I believe Chip Kelly would not have gone with AB.  He would have went with TT.  Used maybe RA or JB as the backup, but have AB help guide the other QBs due to his experience.  But, not sure if Chip would have used the transfer portal to get AB with the talent of QBs already on his list to use.

 

I think with having the week off and playing CAL the following week, this would have been a good opportunity to prepare TT to play the majority of the game against CAL.  As someone said, CAL will stack the box due to AB's inaccuracies in the passing game.  With TT the threat is there to burn CAL in the passing game.  Would make a difference in the running game.

Edited October 11, 2021 by NJDuck

[GODUCKS15]

On 10/11/2021 at 7:10 AM, NJDuck said:

I believe Chip Kelly would not have gone with AB.  He would have went with TT.  Used maybe RA or JB as the backup, but have AB help guide the other QBs due to his experience.  But, not sure if Chip would have used the transfer portal to get AB with the talent of QBs already on his list to use.

 

I think with having the week off and playing CAL the following week, this would have been a good opportunity to prepare TT to play the majority of the game against CAL.  As someone said, CAL will stack the box due to AB's inaccuracies in the passing game.  With TT the threat is there to burn CAL in the passing game.  Would make a difference in the running game.

Without JM there to help tutor TT IMO it's highly unlikely TT would start.

[Jon Joseph]

Very interesting article, thank you. 

 

For the most part you have, correctly I believe,  determined that all or almost all of the former HCs mentioned went with and would go with the conservative choice.

 

Last Saturday was a great example of what a change in QB can and cannot do for a team.

 

Penn State was in control of the game at Iowa. Then the starting PSU QB, Sean Clifford, went down with an injury. The true frosh QB who replaced Clifford was simply over his head and not ready for prime time. Iowa came back to win.

 

Texas vs Oklahoma. OK QB Spencer Rattler was shaky from the start.  Lincoln Riley replaced Rattler with true frosh Caleb Williams. Due to COVID, Williams did not play a down of football his senior season in high school. Yet, Williams was more than ready to play and to lead his time to an all time comeback vs Texas. Someone at Oklahoma obviously was coaching Williams up.

 

Are QBs in the Oregon QB room being coached up? Shough started 2020 playing very good ball. He retrogressed as the season progressed. At Texas Tech under OC Sonnie Cumbie he won the job and was leading the B12 in a number of stats before being injured vs Texas. And Burgmeister is playing well after transferring to Va Tech.

 

We have all seen what Justin Herbert has done since progressing to the NFL. JH's talents were not properly used at Oregon. Of course he has better WRs in the NFL but it appeared to me that Mario's system on O not only inhibited JH's growth but also the growth of the WRs?

 

It was FCS, but Vernon Adams was a big time winner at E Washington before grad transferring to Oregon. Before transferring to Oregon, Anthony Brown was average. AB came to Oregon after 2 knee surgeries. AB is playing the same way he has played his entire career.  AB has no NFL upside. Recruits in the Oregon QB room that on paper have NFL upside, either were vastly overrated by the recruiting services, are not being coached up and/or playing in a system that stifles QB growth. A system designed to keep the score close and let the D win the game. 

 

The other thing to consider under Mario is whether the system is QB friendly? Is the system designed to lead to the greatest success with the least amount of on field, in game stress?

 

Last Saturday, Sark, Riley and Lane Kiffin called plays designed to help out the QB. Creative plays to help get receivers in space and pressure the opponents DBs and LBs in coverage. 

 

What other Oregon coaches would have done? I don't know. But I do know that AB has hit his ceiling. And if one of the guys in the Ducks QB room doesn't have more upside than something is wrong with the coaching, the recruiting, or both.

 

[NJDuck]

You are correct without JM.  According to the one report Jim Mastro called the plays in Oregon’s 31-24 overtime loss to Stanford. If Moorhead doesn’t return for the Friday game Mastro will continue to call UO’s offense. 

[Charles Fischer]

On 10/11/2021 at 7:50 AM, Jon Joseph said:

I do know that AB has hit his ceiling

 

And I had no idea it was so low....  Great post Jon.

[Duckman]

This is an excellent column.  I have wondered with Chip would have done with current QB situation - I think he would play Thompson - but never thought back to other coaches.  My thoughts...

 

Taggart: start Brown and run him 10+ times a game until he is injured.  Then leave for his dream job.

 

Helfrich: think 2016 - start the year with Brown and transition to Thompson at some point in the year.  Also, the Ducks would probably be 1-4 right now due to atrocious defense.  I get frustrated with Cristobal's offense as much as any Duck fan but it is worth remembering how quickly it can head south.

 

Bellotti: likely the dreaded two-QB system.  Ugh.

 

Brooks: I actually think he would give Butterfield a look given the pro-style offense they ran at the time.

[Charles Fischer]

On 10/11/2021 at 8:05 AM, Duckman said:

Brooks: I actually think he would give Butterfield a look given the pro-style offense they ran at the time.

 

I think that is an excellent observation, although it was a West Coast Offense under Bellotti as Brook's OC, but the NFL ran that offense extensively after that time period.

 

Keep in mind that I was not putting the QBs back in the coach's time period to decide...I was doing the opposite.  Transport the coaches from their prime to the current Ducks...what would they do with the QB situation?

[Haywarduck]

On 10/11/2021 at 7:54 AM, Charles Fischer said:

 

And I had no idea it was so low....  Great post Jon.

I think Cristobal knew AB ceiling was low and wanted somebody who could just manage the store. 

 

When you own a business you can bring in a manager who will do exactly what you want and just stay the course. The other direction is to bring in somebody who will shake things up and innovate, who knows the business just might explode.

 

Cristobal doesn't want anyone who will change the business model too much. He seems to want to 'down develop' the talent below, or above AB. He wants what he had in Justin Herbert, a talented qb who will do exactly what he has trained him to do, nothing else. 

 

Think about that, is Cristobal training these young talented qb's to do less than they are capable, just to make sure the program doesn't become too exciting? Are we seeing a retrogression of the talent behind AB before they see the field?

 

This is what is killing me when I watch the Ducks play, the potential is not only sitting on the bench, it isn't even even reaching it's height once it sees the field.

[Charles Fischer]

A Note to Everyone....the picture of Dennis Dixon in the article by John Giustina is just breathtaking with the colorful background.  (Another reason why I want the AD to have people wear YELLOW to games!)  A side note is how that picture was taken in the Arizona State game before his injury that ruined the 2007 season.  That incredible picture was Dixon at his best...

 

I am very grateful to John and to all the photographers who have provided pictures for FishDuck in the last decade.  It makes all the difference in the article and the site to me...

 

 

[Haywarduck]

Ok, so Brooks would have wanted to start two different teams in order to get the potential out of each of the two different types of qb's. From Reggie Ogburn to Bill Musgrave, two completely different qb's, he got everything out of their skill set. Basically Brooks would have been dumbfounded by the potential of this team!

 

Bellotti would have had the qb who fit the OC's scheme win out. I agree he would have two qb's, probably Butterfield and Thompson, compete on the field and see who had it in Moorheads offense. Although he let Masoli come in to the program, Masoli only played once everyone else was injured. I don't think Bellotti would put a transfer ahead of his recruits.

 

I think Chip Kelly would have turned Ashford into the second coming of Mariota. He knew how to develop, and highlight a dual threat qb like no other, not looking forward to playing him this year! He would have Thompson ready to go as soon as Ashford went down and Butterfield would have transferred. AB would be sitting on the sideline with a headset.

 

Helfrich would have developed and made Ashford and Thompson great qb's. The problem is he wouldn't have been able to get them to come to Oregon so it is a moot point. He would have just struggled with AB as the transfer, while destroying our defense.

 

I'm drawing a blank;) on who the other coach was so that is my take.

 

 

[Gizmoduck]

It's time for a change and I'll tell you why. In the hyped up world of results driven college football you get a very limited amount of opportunities. I love Anthony Brown, I have been a supporter of his since I heard he was transferring in. I wanted him to start as soon as possible. He has actually been solid, and I think his numbers will bear that out. The problem is we need better than solid play from our signal caller. Mario Cristobal is definitely a better coach than I think we are giving him credit for. 

 

However if I was in his place my line of thinking would be like this. Tell Anthony Brown I don't care what your numbers are as long as we win. As soon as we lose we have to start thinking about the future and start developing the young fellas. Be upfront in saying it's a tough row to hoe, but this is the pressure cooker of big time college football. With a loss the playoffs are a longshot so let TT get a start and see what happens when he is QB1. My point is any offense will stall with only average qb play, and any offense will succeed if the defense at least respects the qb to have the ability to make a play. 

 

Maybe I'm a little harsher than most, but in today's game these are the decisions dynasties are made upon. 

[Duckdude]

On 10/11/2021 at 7:10 AM, Charles Fischer said:

I am very concerned that Cristobal could turn off a ton of very loyal Oregon fans from what I am reading in this forum.  it would be tempting to say within three games, but it is really the pattern set over three years, the tease of Columbus, and then back to boring football.

He’s done it to me.  I’ve seen enough of Cristobal over three years to expect……more of the same: boring, unadventurous, low-quality play and coaching decisions.  I’ll record the games and fast-forward through them.  Never been so unenthusiastic about our football team in the almost 50 years I’ve been following them.  Sure would love it if Cristobal proved me wrong!

[Charles Fischer]

On 10/11/2021 at 5:27 PM, Duckdude said:

I’ve seen enough of Cristobal over three years to expect……more of the same: boring, unadventurous, low-quality play and coaching decisions.

 

Wow.  The Athletic Department should be concerned that so many fans agree with you...a lesson in "how-to-kill-a-Brand."  (And I don't blame you)

[oregon112]

I recall Lincoln Riley this week, Sweeny and Saban a few years ago, changed QBs and the results were a dramatic improvement. 

 

Helfrich did well with Adams and when he decided to go with Herbert.  Switching from Prukop to Herbert was the only time I recall an Oregon coach doing something like that since I started watching them in 2006,  other than Brown going in for Shough parts of the last two games last year. 

 

Most of the time, when  Oregon's replacement QBs came in due to injury, it was a dramatic step down in performance. 

 

By game 5 of the season, it should not be a mystery of what to do.  The coaches had the same QBs in Spring camp, Fall camp and the first month of the season.  At that point, it becomes a question of willingness to make a change. 

 

I think Oregon should have started TT vs Stoneybrook to see if would be ready if the need arises, due to injury or less than stellar play from the starter.  Also, why take a chance on getting your starter hurt in a cupcake game?  Had TT gotten a full game in previously, he would have been more ready to come into the Stanford game. 

 

We don't see practices, only games.  So we don't know how much the backup gets to practice the playbook and how well he runs the plays. Therefore, we don't know how ready he is. Same thing with previous Oregon coaches. But Lincoln Riley obviously had his backup ready to play. 

 

[Joe]

On this topic...

I do not want to fault, in any way, the Oregon coaching staff for the 'lack luster' performance of this season or the roster decisions they made. It makes sense at the beginning of the season for coach Cristobal to look at the roster and say 'our defense will be a Monster' we can afford to take time to develop young talent and still win.

To forgone offensive prowess and rely on total defensive domination. That was everybody's thought in fall camp.

Unfortunately, injuries and suspensions and perhaps less than anticipated play on the defensive side of the ball have changed that narrative.

Oregon can not continue to try to be SEC east stoppers. Not at the moment. They need to stand on the gas and find how how fast the car goes. Young recruits have to be allowed to shine (and perhaps make mistakes) now.

 

People forget Darron Thomas wasn't the only quarterback on campus that spring. So was Johnny ( football) Manziel. Who immediately, through playing with Marcus Mariotta knew he would never get on the field and tranfered.

 

Ty Thompson is a once in a lifetime quarterback. You have to let him run. Otherwise, why recruit him.

 

This season may not be a natty. Buy probably still a Pac 12 title and another top 10-5 recruiting haul. It's time to build. And the only way you do that is you let the young talent you have loose.

 

 

[oregon112]

On 10/12/2021 at 5:17 PM, Joe said:

 

Ty Thompson is a once in a lifetime quarterback. You have to let him run. Otherwise, why recruit him.

 

 

In this day and age, you always have to worry about your best potential talent going away via the transfer portal.   Play Thomson a few series each game, just to keep him around for next season. 

[Kurt Rambis]

Actually, Joe, I don't believe Manziel was ever "on campus" except for recruiting visits.  He was a verbal commit who flipped to A&M once they offered him.  So it had nothing to do with him playing with Mariota, because he never did.  And I doubt it had much to do with Mariota at all, since Mariota was ranked the 123rd best QB recruit by ESPN.  Mariota was a nobody, just like Justin Herbert was.

 

Great history on this from Bleacher Report:  https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1794499-if-he-stayed-with-oregon-would-johnny-manziel-have-beaten-out-marcus-mariota