Haywarduck Moderator No. 1 Share Posted October 4, 2021 I am a firm believer people seldom change, they just shift a little. Change isn't often the best thing anyway, we do what we do because we are often good at it, and it suits us. With Cristobal he wants a power game because that is how he sees the world, and he is good at that type of thinking, acting. He is actually highly trained in the martial arts. What I would like to see him shift more to is hurry up football. It seems, too often, Mario is more the fighter who wants to wait until the bell rings and then see who is the better fighter. The problem with that thinking is no one really waits on their stool until the bell rings anymore, but Cristobal has that tendency. Saban decried the hurry up offense, but mostly because he, like Cristobal, was a traditionalist. You didn't hike the ball until everyone was ready, and you certainly didn't do it repeatedly. In baseball you might try and pick off the guy at first base, but you certainly don't hurry the game. Cristobal would love baseball and how it is played. The problem is football isn't baseball, and you can hurry the play. You actually benefit from hurrying the play. Saban is now a firm believer. He is a believer, but he hires people who know how to play that way, he doesn't call it. We are so close to what Saban has done. Moorhead gets the hurry up offense. What I see is Cristobal completely uncomfortable with this type of play, thus the timeouts, often at terrible times. He wants everything set, and doesn't necessarily see the other sides total confusion, or understand the opportunities. I want Cristobal to shift and see the benefits to the hurry up offense, not just the scary part. Even if it is power football, with a hurry up component. We need the advantage of hurry up. What is amazing to me is how effective hurry up is at the end of games, yet too many don't make it an integral part of their offense. Cristobal needs to see how it will benefit our program and turn Moorhead loose with it, while shifting to the side! My bet is Saban still isn't comfortable with the hurry up offense, but he knows it benefits the program. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck No. 2 Share Posted October 4, 2021 That is the question, the belief is that nobody can help themselves until they recognize there's a problem and they have to want to fix it. From what we've seen from Mario, he doesn't think anything is wrong that can't be fixed by working harder. We can see that changing QB's is a no brainer, and he has 2 weeks to make the transition as smooth as possible with the bye, and then a game with one of the worst teams in the conference, at home! But changing the QB is only going to happen if something changes in Mario. He is steadfast in doing things his way. But for all of that he's circling the drain. We need to see that Mario isn't one of those guys that won't ask for directions, because he is sure he knows the way. Making the change at QB will be a sign that Mario understands that adjusting your plan is a good thing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 3 Share Posted October 4, 2021 Well, a shift would help, but I believe we need more than that. The Up-Tempo would help us, no doubt. I don't think he will change at all until he has lost enough games...when he realizes he is losing more games than he should with his talent. I am thinking that with him....that will take this year and two more after that. This would be a fundamental movement from his identity, and he is not as flexible that way as Saban is, IMHO. 2 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimpleDucks No. 4 Share Posted October 4, 2021 Yes, totally agree that people seldom change and only shift a little. I also agree about using the tempo offense more, but just enough to keep the defense guessing. However, this move seems less basic and more finesse and I don't see them pulling it off right now. Brown is using the option play at times and he's not always a good decision maker. Can he run a hurry-up too? I don't know. Harkening back to previous posts about changes and what to expect in the next game--what about 2 QB play? It's an idea that I generally hate, but maybe this would be an option to maximize each QB potential, get TT some action and get the best out of Brown? Just a thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 5 Share Posted October 4, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 1:38 PM, DimpleDucks said: Brown is using the option play at times and he's not always a good decision maker. Can he run a hurry-up too? Now THAT is a really good point. If he cannot make good decisions on which receiver to throw to, or which option to take on the Zone-Reads, then adding to his plate could make things worse. The solution? Try Ty Thompson! 4 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith72 Moderator No. 6 Share Posted October 4, 2021 We have seen Oregon try to use hurry up offense this year a few times and in the past. However, it has not happened because by rule if offense has substituted then the defense is allowed to substitute. It seems our coaches always substitute personnel. We don't ever achieve a faster tempo. The line ref stands over the ball while the defender takes his time walking onto the field. This in effect negates any hurry up. I don't think Oregon has had an effective hurry up for a long time. One of the things I thought Coach Moorhead brought to Oregon was using the same personnel group in different formations. Ideal for hurry up - never having to substitute. With the tight ends Oregon has on the roster, hurry up tempo would be devastating. You could go from a 13 power set to two wide outs and a slot without substituting! Webb, Johnson, Ferguson, and Matavao could add another dimension to a passing offense! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 7 Share Posted October 4, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 1:40 PM, Charles Fischer said: Now THAT is a really good point. If he cannot make good decisions on which receiver to throw to, or which option to take on the Zone-Reads, then adding to his plate could make things worse. The solution? Try Ty Thompson! Brown doesn't seem to see the field too well. He will often opt to pass into coverage rather than see the receiver who needs half a second to get open. So often there is a receiver open or just on the verge of getting open when that ball is thrown. Now under pressure, this becomes understandable but that isn't always the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haywarduck Author Moderator No. 8 Share Posted October 4, 2021 I also look at it like in a sport I use to compete in, triathlon. At first it was very traditional swimmers swam in speedos, cyclist used standard bikes and runners just ran in standard running gear. Pretty soon bikes were looked at and questioned. The handlebars, which had stayed the same for decades if not more, were first questioned. The 'downhill bars' were created, then the wheel were looked at. The disc wheel was created, then carbon fibre and on and on. This after decades of bike racing and the traditionalists adherence to what was always done. The traditionalists either changed or they were run over. If you want to be competitive you use the new technology. Football is much like that, you can be bigger and have more talent, but it comes down to being smarter. Cristobal is a traditionalist, and he needs to get off his old 10 speed, get some new wheels, actually use them they are sitting on the bench. He also needs to compete on a level playing field against what everyone else is doing. He also might think about innovating because that is in the blood of every Oregon Duck Fan I know. If he truly wants to be a Duck, then drink from the innovator cup, and just do it! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 9 Share Posted October 4, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 3:00 PM, Haywarduck said: Cristobal is a traditionalist, and he needs to get off his old 10 speed, get some new wheels, actually use them they are sitting on the bench. I love that--great analogy. Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckHunter No. 10 Share Posted October 5, 2021 What I find most frustrating is that we still recruit and start "quick/fast" offensive linemen, and Mario tries to run traditional "Power" football. Then, when that doesn't work it seems that he throws up his hands in disgust, and goes to Hurry Up offense. And another problem we have is the RPO or straight Option running plays. And this isn't new either. Against Stanford we got down inside the 5, and on back to back plays, we tried to run the ball down Stanford's throat. I seem to remember a National Championship game nearly a decade ago, where we did exactly the same thing. And the QB can see everyone on the defense crashing the center of the line, and hands it off anyway, and we get stuffed. Why were we in shotgun anyway? Everyone from coast to coast knew where we were going, so we give the defense an extra 2 or 3 yards to get up a head of steam so they can stuff us again? I suppose it grates on Coach Cristobal's Lineman's soul to run a quarterback sneak, but c'mon, suck it up and win the big ones at least. DuckHunter out... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Ducker1 No. 11 Share Posted October 5, 2021 Everything I've seen in the media from local Duck chats to ESPN to 247Sports to The Oregonian ,etc etc is /are saying the same thing as most all of us are saying here. Im sure the Coaching staff is aware as well as the players. I think Mario is in a place where he knows he has to change things up. The question is does he know how? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 12 Share Posted October 5, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 8:17 PM, DuckHunter said: What I find most frustrating is that we still recruit and start "quick/fast" offensive linemen, I will politely disagree with that. Greatwood recruited agile linemen who could move, but were not giants. That was the knock on Chip, that he got overwhelmed by elite defensive linemen such as Nick Fairley. Mario announced right up front that "he was going to make his linemen tougher." Cristobal is recruiting offensive linemen that are huge, and do not have the mobility, IMHO. 3 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oregon112 No. 13 Share Posted October 5, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 9:35 PM, Charles Fischer said: I will politely disagree with that. Greatwood recruited agile linemen who could move, but were not giants. That was the knock on Chip, that he got overwhelmed by elite defensive linemen such as Nick Fairley. Mario announced right up front that "he was going to make his linemen tougher." Cristobal is recruiting offensive linemen that are huge, and do not have the mobility, IMHO. Yes, and even if they are big, 5 cannot block 9. You need some kind of misdirection on 4th and 1 at the goal line. Or a jump ball to someone tall like Devon Williams. And if you want to go 'power', then shotgun (or pistol) spread is not the way to do it. You could go 'wildcat' with Ashford - let him run to the field side with pitch or throw options. With his speed, it would be a nightmare to defend. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 14 Share Posted October 5, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 4:37 PM, 30Duck said: That is the question, the belief is that nobody can help themselves until they recognize there's a problem and they have to want to fix it. From what we've seen from Mario, he doesn't think anything is wrong that can't be fixed by working harder. We can see that changing QB's is a no brainer, and he has 2 weeks to make the transition as smooth as possible with the bye, and then a game with one of the worst teams in the conference, at home! But changing the QB is only going to happen if something changes in Mario. He is steadfast in doing things his way. But for all of that he's circling the drain. We need to see that Mario isn't one of those guys that won't ask for directions, because he is sure he knows the way. Making the change at QB will be a sign that Mario understands that adjusting your plan is a good thing. Mario is fine with a pace on O that leads to 1 score games. No team wins every 1 score game. It is a failure not to have a hurry up, change of pace scheme on O. It is a philosophy on O that is outmoded. After 3 years I do not believe that it is in Mario's DNA to change his approach to playing offense. I don't believe that like Nick Saban, he can hire a Lane Kiffin, and get out of the way? What really baffles me? Why the emphasis on bringing in top WR recruits and TE recruits and not having them involved in the O? I respect Mario. But I can't help but wonder with this roster how many points, if they had free rein, would a Kiffin or Sark coached O be putting up? To date, Moorhead's O looks far more like the O he ran at MS ST and not Penn State. Maybe McSorley and Barkley made JM at PSU and not the other way around? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 15 Share Posted October 5, 2021 On 10/5/2021 at 7:36 AM, Jon Joseph said: I respect Mario. But I can't help but wonder with this roster how many points, if they had free rein, would a Kiffin or Sark coached O be putting up? So true, and the thought of it makes me ill. Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnski No. 16 Share Posted October 5, 2021 The bottom line is quarterback play. Better QB play makes all of this go away. I thought the OC did a good job Saturday, QB Brown was terrible. Switch QBs (and WRs) or say hello to 8-4 and the Vegas Bowl. Again 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Perkins No. 17 Share Posted October 5, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 1:15 PM, Haywarduck said: I am a firm believer people seldom change, they just shift a little. Change isn't often the best thing anyway, we do what we do because we are often good at it, and it suits us. With Cristobal he wants a power game because that is how he sees the world, and he is good at that type of thinking, acting. He is actually highly trained in the martial arts. What I would like to see him shift more to is hurry up football. It seems, too often, Mario is more the fighter who wants to wait until the bell rings and then see who is the better fighter. The problem with that thinking is no one really waits on their stool until the bell rings anymore, but Cristobal has that tendency. Saban decried the hurry up offense, but mostly because he, like Cristobal, was a traditionalist. You didn't hike the ball until everyone was ready, and you certainly didn't do it repeatedly. In baseball you might try and pick off the guy at first base, but you certainly don't hurry the game. Cristobal would love baseball and how it is played. The problem is football isn't baseball, and you can hurry the play. You actually benefit from hurrying the play. Saban is now a firm believer. He is a believer, but he hires people who know how to play that way, he doesn't call it. We are so close to what Saban has done. Moorhead gets the hurry up offense. What I see is Cristobal completely uncomfortable with this type of play, thus the timeouts, often at terrible times. He wants everything set, and doesn't necessarily see the other sides total confusion, or understand the opportunities. I want Cristobal to shift and see the benefits to the hurry up offense, not just the scary part. Even if it is power football, with a hurry up component. We need the advantage of hurry up. What is amazing to me is how effective hurry up is at the end of games, yet too many don't make it an integral part of their offense. Cristobal needs to see how it will benefit our program and turn Moorhead loose with it, while shifting to the side! My bet is Saban still isn't comfortable with the hurry up offense, but he knows it benefits the program. I was in Boise this past weekend watching Boise St versus Nevada, and could help but think, "why can't the Ducks throw the ball like these guys?" It's time for a change. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Perkins No. 18 Share Posted October 5, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 1:37 PM, 30Duck said: That is the question, the belief is that nobody can help themselves until they recognize there's a problem and they have to want to fix it. From what we've seen from Mario, he doesn't think anything is wrong that can't be fixed by working harder. We can see that changing QB's is a no brainer, and he has 2 weeks to make the transition as smooth as possible with the bye, and then a game with one of the worst teams in the conference, at home! But changing the QB is only going to happen if something changes in Mario. He is steadfast in doing things his way. But for all of that he's circling the drain. We need to see that Mario isn't one of those guys that won't ask for directions, because he is sure he knows the way. Making the change at QB will be a sign that Mario understands that adjusting your plan is a good thing. Yeah, gotta get ahead of the problem and act before the negative act occurs... such as a loss to Stanford. I think the likes of Saban would have made the QB change earlier, would have seen the inevitable and did would he could to stop it. I mean, we all saw this coming, if not Stanford then in in the very near future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Perkins No. 19 Share Posted October 5, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 1:37 PM, Charles Fischer said: Well, a shift would help, but I believe we need more than that. The Up-Tempo would help us, no doubt. I don't think he will change at all until he has lost enough games...when he realizes he is losing more games than he should with his talent. I am thinking that with him....that will take this year and two more after that. This would be a fundamental movement from his identity, and he is not as flexible that way as Saban is, IMHO. That's what I've said the last couple years, when the offense is lackluster and casually taking their time between plays, very lethargic.... light a fire by going with some temp to get things going... but nope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Perkins No. 20 Share Posted October 5, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 1:38 PM, DimpleDucks said: Harkening back to previous posts about changes and what to expect in the next game--what about 2 QB play? It's an idea that I generally hate, but maybe this would be an option to maximize each QB potential, get TT some action and get the best out of Brown? Just a thought. Need to do something as the status quo will get us to 8-4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Perkins No. 21 Share Posted October 5, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 1:41 PM, Smith72 said: We have seen Oregon try to use hurry up offense this year a few times and in the past. However, it has not happened because by rule if offense has substituted then the defense is allowed to substitute. It seems our coaches always substitute personnel. We don't ever achieve a faster tempo. The line ref stands over the ball while the defender takes his time walking onto the field. This in effect negates any hurry up. I don't think Oregon has had an effective hurry up for a long time. One of the things I thought Coach Moorhead brought to Oregon was using the same personnel group in different formations. Ideal for hurry up - never having to substitute. With the tight ends Oregon has on the roster, hurry up tempo would be devastating. You could go from a 13 power set to two wide outs and a slot without substituting! Webb, Johnson, Ferguson, and Matavao could add another dimension to a passing offense! Agree, but that would seem to make too much sense for Mario. He's gotta play "tough" not "smart." 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Perkins No. 22 Share Posted October 5, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 8:17 PM, DuckHunter said: I suppose it grates on Coach Cristobal's Lineman's soul to run a quarterback sneak, but c'mon, suck it up and win the big ones at least. DuckHunter out... Yes, it's got to be demoralizing playing in this offense. The lineman feel defeated, the WR's get very few opportunites.... why come to Oregon???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Perkins No. 23 Share Posted October 5, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 9:09 PM, 1Ducker1 said: Everything I've seen in the media from local Duck chats to ESPN to 247Sports to The Oregonian ,etc etc is /are saying the same thing as most all of us are saying here. Im sure the Coaching staff is aware as well as the players. I think Mario is in a place where he knows he has to change things up. The question is does he know how? Just seems like plain ole stubborness. If Mario was cut from the dictatorship cloth I could believe that maybe all those around him would be afraid to say something, but I don't think that's the case.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Ducky No. 24 Share Posted October 5, 2021 I would like to see MC not be so darn stubborn. Make fluid decisions based on the flow of the game. Stretch the field that would help get the opposing linebackers back out of the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kentduck No. 25 Share Posted October 5, 2021 Cristobal is a great leader and a great recruiter. I think it’s time for him to allow his coordinators to coordinate and to delegate in game strategy to someone he trusts. Those are not his strengths Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
