Pac-12 Academic Rankings

[Tandaian]

Ranking Pac-12 schools academically by U.S. News for 2022-23

DUCKSWIRE.USATODAY.COM

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Half of the schools in the Pac-12 rank among the top 100 schools in the nation. Where do the Oregon Ducks land?

 

University of Oregon has the 2nd lowest enrollment in the Pac 12.  Nearly 10,000 less than OSU.

[Charles Fischer]

Are these valid rankings?  There is been much written about how schools game the system, and many more reasons for pause.

 

[Jon Joseph]

US News is generally considered to be the best at the business of ranking universities and colleges.

 

However, it's still based on a formula that is as good as its programmed algorithm. One part of the formula is based on the number of Noble Prize winners who are faculty members. I expect that no undergraduate student ever comes in contact with these folks. 

 

It also does not take individual majors into question. For example, UNLV overall has a low ranking but its School of Hospitality and Entertainment  (a/k/a Hotel School) is ranked 2nd in the nation just behind Cornell.

 

I see Oregon having a lower enrollment than many Pac-12 schools as being a good thing. This has to improve the student-teacher ratio. 

 

[Mudslide]

On 4/19/2023 at 12:20 PM, Jon Joseph said:

However, it's still based on a formula that is as good as its programmed algorithm. One part of the formula is based on the number of Noble Prize winners who are faculty members. I expect that no undergraduate student ever comes in contact with these folks. 

 

 

Yep.  I attended UC Berkeley as an undergrad (physics major).  At that time, they had the finest physicists and research programs of any university.  (Meaning they received the most government grants.)  And not once was I able to lay eyes upon any of the school's gaggle of Noble Prize winners.  In fact, the only luminary I met back then was Jonas Salk (he was not UCB related), Presidential Medal of Freedom winner.  And that was only because he was a dignitary at my sister's research business awards ceremony.  

 

My take is that Stanford's mission was/is to educate the best and brightest.  UCB's mission was/is to cull and sort students...not to fully educate them.  Even as an alumnus of UCB, I will never contribute to their Alumni Society.  Call me divorced ... and now a Duck fan.  

[Jon Joseph]

On 4/19/2023 at 3:49 PM, Mudslide said:

Yep.  I attended UC Berkeley as an undergrad (physics major).  At that time, they had the finest physicists and research programs of any university.  (Meaning they received the most government grants.)  And not once was I able to lay eyes upon any of the school's gaggle of Noble Prize winners.  In fact, the only luminary I met back then was Jonas Salk (he was not UCB related), Presidential Medal of Freedom winner.  And that was only because he was a dignitary at my sister's research business awards ceremony.  

 

My take is that Stanford's mission was/is to educate the best and brightest.  UCB's mission was/is to cull and sort students...not to fully educate them.  Even as an alumnus of UCB, I will never contribute to their Alumni Society.  Call me divorced ... and now a Duck fan.  

Great comment. FYI, Forbes has CAL ranked at #3 of all USA colleges and universities with MIT #1 and Stanford ranked 2nd. 

 

I was in the first group of youngsters who received the polio vaccine. Jonas Salk deserves every kudo he has ever received and more. He made it safe to go into the water and saved hundreds of thousands from iron lungs, paralysis, and early death.

[Drake]

Interesting rankings. 

 

While a degree from a prestigious University is an outstanding accomplishment, the combination of intelligence and work ethic towards one’s endeavors will always be the most reliable measuring stick of a person’s potential success. 
 

There are far too many people that have paid an enormous amount of money for graduate degrees thinking that the degree alone would pave the way to their future success. 

[OceaniaDuck]

I think this retired(?) college professor makes some good points. He got his PhD from Stanford and taught at Duke U for a number of years:

 

 

[Mudslide]

On 4/19/2023 at 1:01 PM, Jon Joseph said:

Great comment. FYI, Forbes has CAL ranked at #3 of all USA colleges and universities with MIT #1 and Stanford ranked 2nd. 

 

I was in the first group of youngsters who received the polio vaccine. Jonas Salk deserves every kudo he has ever received and more. He made it safe to go into the water and saved hundreds of thousands from iron lungs, paralysis, and early death.

Same here, Jon...first group for me, as well.  I had friends who had already succumbed to the awful disease.  And irony ... I received my last dose the day before I tried out for the basketball team.  (I was not even close to occupying the bench.  They were awful that year, so I guess that pretty much says what kind of bball player I was.  )  

 

I'm surprised Salk never won a Nobel Prize of some sort.  But he was certainly highly regarded and won a bunch of awards for his work in virology.  I guess we could use him now!

[Mudslide]

On 4/19/2023 at 5:57 PM, OceaniaDuck said:

I think this retired(?) college professor makes some good points. He got his PhD from Stanford and taught at Duke U for a number of years:

 

 

What this fellow says is only a half truth.  Yes, you can put in the work and get a good education.  The question is ... does the institution assist you along the path or does hollow out ditches for you to fall in.  Either way, one can learn a lot and make a good career.  What is in question for me is the university's commitment to education ... or is it more committed to making money and gaining prestige?

 

I'll provide an example of my distaste for UCB's treatment of students.  I had a French professor that was very poor at the language.  Would a teacher like that help or hinder your learning?  And I had a 5-unit Honors Chemistry class.  While the professor was very good, the lab teacher was almost never available nor helpful (nor even THERE) due to his graduate commitments.

Much of Berkeley's resources (and prestige) went not into teaching undergrads, but to large research grants run by hired guns in the field.  All schools are not alike, and academic success surely depends as much upon school resources as it does student effort.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Mudslide

[OceaniaDuck]

On 4/20/2023 at 12:43 PM, Mudslide said:

What this fellow says is only a half truth.  Yes, you can put in the work and get a good education.  The question is ... does the institution assist you along the path or does hollow out ditches for you to fall in.  Either way, one can learn a lot and make a good career.  What is in question for me is the university's commitment to education ... or is it more committed to making money and gaining prestige?

 

I'll provide an example of my distaste for UCB's treatment of students.  I had a French professor that was very poor at the language.  Would a teacher like that help or hinder your learning?  And I had a 5-unit Honors Chemistry class.  While the professor was very good, the lab teacher was almost never available nor helpful (nor even THERE) due to his graduate commitments.

Much of Berkeley's resources (and prestige) went not into teaching undergrads, but to large research grants run by hired guns in the field.  All schools are not alike, and academic success surely depends as much upon school resources as it does student effort.

Good points as well. I think more so now than in years past, and especially with the US News and World Report as well as other rankings of colleges that come out regularly, I think sadly there is more of a commitment to making money and gaining prestige like you stated.

 

I also had to deal with the frustrations associated with taking classes taught by TA's lol. While there were some decent ones, unfortunately you could also tell that some of them only taught classes because they had to. I actually had better instructors on average at the community college I went to. But like many others, I did manage to make the best out of every situation and learned alot despite the subpar instruction IMHO for a few classes I took.

[Jon Joseph]

On 4/19/2023 at 6:04 PM, Drake said:

Interesting rankings. 

 

While a degree from a prestigious University is an outstanding accomplishment, the combination of intelligence and work ethic towards one’s endeavors will always be the most reliable measuring stick of a person’s potential success. 
 

There are far too many people that have paid an enormous amount of money for graduate degrees thinking that the degree alone would pave the way to their future success. 

Great points and I am so glad that my kids and not I have to come up with ridiculous amounts of money for my grandkids to go to college.

[Nevada Dawg]

While a college degree is no guarantee of life success and many, many people do terrific without one, career earnings, on average,  are substantially higher for college grads than for those without college degrees. 

 

College isn't for everyone, but kids who truly want a higher education and pursue it seriously are typically quite successful in life.

 

On the other hand, kids who don't want to attend college but do so to meet others' expectations are the ones who may be wasting their own or others' money in attending. I can't tell you how many of these "students" I encountered in my 34 years as a college professor.