FishDuck Article Administrator No. 1 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Last year we saw Oregon use its jumbo formation, referred to as 14-J, which meant one running back with four tight ends (one of which included Josh Conerly). This formation was a bulldozer but also had some subtlety to it, as it could be used in multiple ways — so much so that I wrote an article on it last ... What Happened to Oregon's Jumbo Formation? FISHDUCK.COM Last year we saw Oregon use its jumbo formation, referred to as 14-J, which meant one running back with four tight ends (one of which... 1 3 Two Sites: FishDuck and the Our Beloved Ducks forum, The only "Forum with Decorum!" And All-Volunteer? What a wonderful community of Duck fans! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith72 Moderator No. 2 Share Posted October 17, 2023 You make a good point David! Inquiring minds will wonder. I think that is part of the learning process our wonderful young coaches are going through. If the defense can't stop you keep doing it until they do. And when they do, hit them with a constraint play off of it. Balance is good, but why stop what works! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haywarduck Moderator No. 3 Share Posted October 17, 2023 It did seem like the O-line was working better than the OC, great question. As Deboer stated he studied Oregon's tendencies, and mixing it up a bit more would have played against that info. Instead it looked like the dawgs knew what Stein and Nix were going to do at critical points. Such a great effort by the players, and coaches really, but a little more creativity may have been the difference. Great article and maybe Stein will consider leveraging the O-line as you suggest, next time! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic No. 4 Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) From David's article above: "Instead we saw Nix roll out of the pocket and make a throw to receivers who simply weren’t open. That is a low-percentage play at a critical time. The Ducks don’t need to be that desperate; get the big bodies out and lets see them give Oregon’s runners a chance to pick up the needed yards." That's exactly what I think about these critical situations (not wanting to 2nd guess the coaches). Go with the high percentage play when converting or not means winning or losing the game. It's fine to go for some of these riskier plays when trying to extend a lead or build one, not when trying to come from behind or seal a win, esp. late. Just my agreeing with David on this. Go Ducks. Edited October 17, 2023 by Mic 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyToBeADuck No. 5 Share Posted October 17, 2023 David, I was suprised on both 3rd and 4th down that the Ducks didn't line up in the 14-J offensive set. Great topic and article, thanks David.... The O line, as mentioned had its way against the dogs most of the day. Balance be damned! You are correct that the formation could be used in multiple ways. Offering Bo a number of options to be creative. Of course, after 57 minutes into the game DL and Stein had their own feel for the flow of the offense. Caught up in the excitement of a big moment, late in a big game. They rolled the dice and called a weak arse play. No one was fooled! Most calls in that situation are 50/50 odds. But with the massive amount of power, weight and meaness, at the point of attack, the 14-J odds are better than the plays that were called. More options offered and less predictable. The opposing coach admitted he felt the Duck's had tendencies in situations.... hummm! Hopefully that's a learning moment for DL, Stein and all of our awesome coaching staff. I am not trying to second guess, really! However, when the oppossing HC knows your first guess, well maybe you could throw a curveball as your second guess. Either way it was a great, high profile game played by 2 CFP worthy teams. The nation of fans and CFP committee are on notice.... Both teams need to win out and play again in Las Vegas. No let downs and no stumbles along the way. The winner of that game has a legitimate shot at being this years National Champ........ The Ducks need to handle a dangerous wounded Cougar team, next. GO DUCKS! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haywarduck Moderator No. 6 Share Posted October 17, 2023 If you're playing cards in a high stakes game and you have tendencies, you're gonna lose. Oregon was playing a high stakes game, and the opposing players knew what their hand was, fatal mistake. If Stein wants to keep playing in high stakes games he needs to be a better poker player. Nix needs to know his tendencies and use that to play a defense, not get worked. Everyone knew who Bo wanted to throw to on big downs, and that can be used by him, or the opposing defense. We have plenty of weapons, he needs to use them. He played a great game, but it usually comes down to that last hand and.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 7 Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/17/2023 at 6:47 AM, HappyToBeADuck said: Most calls in that situation are 50/50 odds. But with the massive amount of power, weight and meaness, at the point of attack, the 14-J odds are better than the plays that were called. More options offered and less predictable. We saw the formation used like twice this year and one time it was used was to slip TFerg into the end zone matched up with a smaller DB and Nix just tossed the ball up for him to go get it.... Which he did and it was a touchdown. The formation can be blunt force of run the ball either with a runningback or Nix as a QB sneak... Or it can have some pass plays. Good luck trying to stop it all. What we saw last year was brilliant. That mix of power and cunning that forces defenses to make a choice and hope they're right .. and hope they can beat it. Sometimes even knowing what's coming doesn't mean they can beat it. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic No. 8 Share Posted October 17, 2023 I keep reminding myself Will Stein, for all his reputed brilliance, is still very young (coaching-wise) and relatively in-experienced (coaching-wise). He'll definitely get wiser and better at his job. So, there's that - Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 9 Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/17/2023 at 7:39 AM, Mic said: I keep reminding myself Will Stein, for all his reputed brilliance, is still very young (coaching-wise) and relatively in-experienced (coaching-wise). He'll definitely get wiser and better at his job. So, there's that - I do feel like we'll probably have Stein for a number of years to come. I think Stein and Lanning are still learning to work together. One needs to be the voice of reason, at the end of the half after a turnover you always take the points. Doubly so when you get the ball to start the half. Oregons offense came out kinda flat in the first quarter and the start of the third. That can't happen. Going three and out after getting the ball doesn't put the team in a good place. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic No. 10 Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/17/2023 at 8:09 AM, David Marsh said: One needs to be the voice of reason, at the end of the half after a turnover you always take the points. Doubly so when you get the ball to start the half. I certainly can't argue with that. This is the kind of 'experience' we're expecting Stein & Lanning will gain - and should - going forward. One also hopes Oregon can see some continuity in coaching staff going forward. No 1 and done, or 2 and gone season stays by our O.C's and D.C.'s. If you add to that the number of transfers coming in and out the team seems always in flux. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyduck No. 11 Share Posted October 17, 2023 I was going to get on here and post the title ..."Still trying to figure out what if?" asking the same thing. I read all the comments and appreciate them all! My "what if" question is why not use plays created for two point conversions the same way they do on goal line situations? That first two point conversion was brilliant! Line everyone up on the right side of the ball, snap it from the left side and waltz in around a wall of blockers. Dawgs never saw it coming! Having Rogers for goal line situations was discussed after the TT game. Throw him out there as a pass catcher or blocker. I'm sure they have plenty where that came from. You can't keep em, use them up!! I really envisioned two TDS with some creativity in those situations, not "taking fgs". The defense certainly made up for one of the lapses with their own amazing goal line stance which has pretty much gone unmentioned. I said a couple months ago about 5 dumb plays a year can ruin a college football season. I think the players played very smart discipline football in a very hostile environment against the hated Dawgs. I think the coaches had three dumb plays Saturday. I hope they learned and reward these players with wiser play calling and a trip to the playoffs!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph No. 12 Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) On 10/17/2023 at 10:39 AM, Mic said: I keep reminding myself Will Stein, for all his reputed brilliance, is still very young (coaching-wise) and relatively in-experienced (coaching-wise). He'll definitely get wiser and better at his job. So, there's that - Great take, Mic. But Oregon did put up 126 more yards than UW. Bo threw for more yards (but not TDs) than Penix. Chip Kelly disdained this stat but Oregon had the ball 9 more minutes than did UW. David makes a great point about the Jumbo formation disappearing. This OL that was a question mark prior to the season has played very well. But going against an 8 man front is tough sledding for any formation. As DL acknowledged, the 3rd down run prior to Oregon trying to seal the win on 4th down was a check down call that was not communicated properly. I won't argue with DL's take, I have neither the knowledge nor football IQ to do so, but against an 8-man box on 3rd down why not stretch the field? In the play that set up the tying FG attempt (SIGH), Ferguson was wide open down the middle. My main critique of the play calling was not doing enough to stretch the field late in the game. Troy Franklin was having a great game. Bryant disappeared but Tez Johnson came through. With the manner in which the Ducks ran the ball, drawing the UW D up to the LOS, I'm disappointed that we did not see more deep shots which seems contrary to the aggressive 4th down decisions. Great game. Oregon is still very much in the hunt for a Pac-12 title and a Final 4 berth. Thanks, David, for another great take. Edited October 17, 2023 by Jon Joseph 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic No. 13 Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/17/2023 at 9:54 AM, Jon Joseph said: But Oregon did put up 126 more yards than UW. Bo threw for more yards (but not TDs) than Penix. Chip Kelly disdained this stat but Oregon had the ball 9 more minutes than did UW. Here I was speaking exclusively about the in-game decisions in critical situations. Basically, Oregon did out-play UW for the most part. But then they may have given the game away when it could have been won by questionable decision making. This is what I feel both Lanning and Stein (and others on the staff) will learn from and improve on going forward. Youth has its advantages - and its very real disadvantages. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar No. 14 Share Posted October 17, 2023 14J package got stuffed by UW last year on 4th and 1 a couple of times at home. It wouldn't have worked with 4th and 3 on the road against an improved UW front Saturday. Our OL are not road graders. The best runs are pin and pull where the RB waits for the blocking to set up. We need new plays for 4th and 2-5 yards. Plays with multiple options after the ball is snapped, or at least a quick play action like to Kelly against Colorado. RPO, or even sitting back in the pocket with receivers TEs and RBs breaking just behind the wall of pressure. Or even as someone else above mentioned, just run one of your 2 point conversion specials. Don't move the ball laterally behind the line of scrimmage. Don't hand off up the gut especially from a slow developing pistol formation unless it's a QB option read. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 15 Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 10/17/2023 at 11:57 AM, Solar said: 14J package got stuffed by UW last year on 4th and 1 a couple of times at home. The thing is that the formation can be used in so many different ways. Yes, brute force is an option and I think it probably could have worked for a play or two. But also slipping a TE out to be a receiver as the rest of the defense crashes down to defend the run can be an easy score. Or put a guy in motion and hand the ball off there while again the defense crashes towards the middle to stop the run. These other things have scored points as I went over last year. Oregon Football is The Embodiment of Modern Physicality FISHDUCK.COM As Oregon fans, we heard all about physicality from former HC Mario Cristobal over the last four years... It's about being multiple and throwing in additional curves. Sometimes brute force is the way to go... But sometimes the fear of brute force is enough as well. I love this formation for what it can do... I offers options and creativity while also generating high percentage conversion plays. That's what needs to happen on 3rd and 4th down. High percentage plays. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryProf No. 16 Share Posted October 17, 2023 I wonder if Oregon actually has enough skilled tight ends this year to pull that formation off. Any thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 17 Share Posted October 18, 2023 On 10/17/2023 at 2:09 PM, CountryProf said: I wonder if Oregon actually has enough skilled tight ends this year to pull that formation off. Any thoughts? Josh Conerly was one of the "tightends" last year. I think he caught a touchdown off the formation, but we have plenty of linemen who could line up in this formation and we'd be good to go. Don't need 4 tightends really... Just enough big blockers in offensive linemen and we have that. We also have 3 solid blocking tight ends as well. We have the bodies. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
