FishDuck Article Administrator No. 1 Share Posted October 31 In any sort of competitive gaming, whether it is sports, cards, board games or even video games, there is something that is created by their respective participants: the metagame, or “meta” for short. This is the game within the game that, over time, determines the best way of playing. The reality is that there isn’t just one definitive answer to ... Is the B1G Easier than the Pac-12? | FishDuck FISHDUCK.COM In any sort of competitive gaming, whether it is sports, cards, board games or even video games, there is something that is created by their... 1 2 Two Sites: FishDuck and the Our Beloved Ducks forum, The only "Forum with Decorum!" And All-Volunteer? What a wonderful community of Duck fans! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck Moderator No. 2 Share Posted October 31 Four out of the B1G's 18 teams have emerged as contenders. USC is 4 plays away from being on top of course and will spend the rest of the season fighting for bowl eligibility. Ohio State's talent is obvious, but its having trouble lately finding its game. Indiana is living the dream, but it could get a wake up call as the competition stiffens from now on. Penn State hosts Ohio State this week. Penn State hasn't beaten Ohio State in a long time, but Ohio State needs to win this one. Oregon needs to keep on keeping on against Michigan. Upsets did seem more likely in the Pac-12 than they do in the B1G. The bottom 14 can knock off each other but are unlikely to take down any of the top 4. The top 4 are the most complete teams, their offensive diversity, strength in the trenches and defensive backs standout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyToBeADuck No. 3 Share Posted October 31 David thanks for the article and your valid points. Of course we have 4 more games to play to have a full season to review. From this fans perspective I see the BIG being more predictable than easy. Idaho, BSU and tOSU brought more diversity in their game plans. Similar to how you explained the divetsity within the PAC. Those 3 games were a greater challenge for OBD's andx2 of those games were decided on the last plays. And all of us were on the edhe of our seats, well i was. While Michigan is one dimensional on offense and the Duck D should dominate, their Defense will be stout! Go Ducks.....beat the wolverines. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 4 Share Posted October 31 On 10/31/2024 at 7:43 AM, HappyToBeADuck said: While Michigan is one dimensional on offense and the Duck D should dominate, their Defense will be stout! In truth I'm feeling a bit more nervous about this game than any of the others, outside BSU and Ohio State. Michigan is in wounded animal mode and are desperate for a good win. They are also starting to figure things out a bit. They are like Illinois but without a quarterback. But if they start getting that QB picture together they are a much better version of Illinois. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autzen Magic No. 5 Share Posted October 31 Absolutely agree with the premise of this article. I’ve been thinking about how much easier it is to navigate the B1G as compared to the PAC. I agree the style of play is a major reason why. More specifically, the QB play was vastly superior in the PAC as compared to the B1G. But I vehemently disagree with the following statement in the article: “The Pacific Northwest teams of Oregon and Washington may be strange for B1G foes with our cool weather at times and massive downpours of rain into November.” It NEVER rains at Autzen Stadium! 1 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 6 Share Posted October 31 The Triumverate (OK, the Top 2 and Penn State) is now a Quartet with Puddles flying East and the Hoosiers (one Rose Bowl apperance in 1968) crashing the party in 2024. The B1G has been top heavy for years with the East Division winner usually destroying the West Division winner in the Champ game, be it Iowa or Wisconsin. 1 BCS champ, Ohio State, sigh, and two 4-team PO champs, tOSU and Michigan. But being top heavy was also the case in the Pac-12. Arizona never played in a Rose Bowl game and a handful of contenders competed for the laurels. In Pac 8-10 and in Pete Carroll years in the Pac-12, it was SC Student Body Right and Every Body Else. It appears that a largely unregulated right to transfer and NIL is evening the field somewhat for coaches who can take advantage. Norvell in 2023 but not 2024. Cignetti in 2024. And, sigh, Mari(o) who, taking advantage of his Ward and a war chest, is close to O in 2024. This, and 16 to 18 team Mega-Conferences have given some tough schedules and others, easy-peasy schedules. See Mizzou compared to Georgia. Rutgers compared to UW. Miami compared to Pitt. This season, OBD has both tOSU and Michigan on the schedule. In 2025 the Buckeyes and the Wolverines are not on the schedule. Thanks, David for another terric artical. WASTE THE WOLVERINES. Play like it's 2007 ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 7 Share Posted October 31 Thanks again for a terrific and spot-on article. A "PERFECT" B1G Game was contested last Saturday. Iowa 40 / Northwestern 14. Neither team passed for 100 yards. With a prototype B1G Meta-game plan, Iowa is usually at or near the top of the middle of the conference and then is plastered by an SEC team in its bowl game. The Michigan D Line has not played as well as expected this season, but I imagine they will be mega-fired up on Saturday. Michigan DC Wink Martindale will, as is his practice, bring The House in The Big House. Michigan will try to test both LOS early on. I wish Burch was available to help set the edge on D, something Michigan State could not do when QB Orji was in the game last Saturday. This close to November, every team is banged up. GO DUCKS! Silence 100+K! Play like it's 2007! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JabbaNoBargain No. 8 Share Posted October 31 (edited) I believe yes, for OBD. As we well know from decades of personal experience, any team that can actually throw the ball with creativity has a punchers chance, no matter how questionable they may be up front. Most B1G are pretty well built up front and able to mash. But when the mash strategy is neutralized most of them flounder…been that way forever. Edited October 31 by JabbaNoBargain 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 9 Share Posted October 31 On 10/31/2024 at 9:51 AM, JabbaNoBargain said: Yes, for OBD. As we well know from decades of personal experience, any team that can actually throw the ball with creativity has a punchers chance, no matter how questionable they may be up front. Most B1G are pretty well built up front and able to mash. But when the mash strategy is neutralized most of them flounder…been that way forever. But there is a mindset that is stuck in that style of play. Washington State saw they weren't winning any games so they went out and hired Mike Leach and his air raid offense. Sure he had runningbacks on his roster but they got just enough carries to be dangerous but more often they were just another pass catcher. Washington State under Leach weren't always good but they certainly had some good seasons and they were always interesting. They were also always good for stealing a game or two away from a top team in any given year. How do you stop that kind of air raid offense? It's certainly possible and if given enough time to prepare very doable. Leach lost a lot of bowl games and some of them badly because his opposition could take weeks to prepare. Washington State also never won any conference championships or went to any major bowl games under Leach. In the end if given time any good team was going to beat him. However, if you're a team struggling to get top recruits and you just want to be good and bowl eligible most years then adopting the air raid or other off-meta offense can certainly do that. Teams lost to Washington State because they couldn't adequately prepare in a week, and even if they did they were often in some dog fights of games. The B1G meta (excluding the newbies) just doesn't have really any of these strange teams outside of Ohio State. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake Moderator No. 10 Share Posted October 31 A good team can also have a very favorable BIG conference schedule. This year is a good example, if you don’t have to play at Oregon, tOSU, Penn State, or Indiana as an away game you can rack up wins. Oregon had tOSU at home, and misses the others. However, Michigan is struggling, and we never know who the next Indiana is going to be in any given year. A BIG schedule may allow a team to completely avoid playing the conferences top ranked teams. So, my conclusion, the BIG can be easier based on your schedule. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JabbaNoBargain No. 11 Share Posted October 31 On 10/31/2024 at 10:00 AM, David Marsh said: But there is a mindset that is stuck in that style of play. Washington State saw they weren't winning any games so they went out and hired Mike Leach and his air raid offense. Sure he had runningbacks on his roster but they got just enough carries to be dangerous but more often they were just another pass catcher. Washington State under Leach weren't always good but they certainly had some good seasons and they were always interesting. They were also always good for stealing a game or two away from a top team in any given year. How do you stop that kind of air raid offense? It's certainly possible and if given enough time to prepare very doable. Leach lost a lot of bowl games and some of them badly because his opposition could take weeks to prepare. Washington State also never won any conference championships or went to any major bowl games under Leach. In the end if given time any good team was going to beat him. However, if you're a team struggling to get top recruits and you just want to be good and bowl eligible most years then adopting the air raid or other off-meta offense can certainly do that. Teams lost to Washington State because they couldn't adequately prepare in a week, and even if they did they were often in some dog fights of games. The B1G meta (excluding the newbies) just doesn't have really any of these strange teams outside of Ohio State. Becomes interesting, because most B1G are or have been stuck but refuse to be creative for whatever reason. Look at Indiana. Import a bunch of JMU skill players and a different philosophy and suddenly they’re world beaters in year 1. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUCati855 Moderator No. 12 Share Posted October 31 Thanks David. Always love to read your thought provoking articles. My opinion: Yes, the B1G is easier to navigate. Especially given the new playoff format. The old Pac12 was far more competitive top to bottom and most teams (except Stanford) had the ability to put up quick points. This made for many exciting games, with lots of points on the board. Pac12 football was much more fun to watch. Good teams had to keep their foot on the pedal well into the 4th quarter in order to feel good about the lead they had. The 1st halves of this seasons conference games (for the Ducks) have been fun. But, the 2nd half... SO BORING (except tOSU). DL's plan makes perfect sense. Get a lead, protect it for a quarter, then get the young guys some experience. This is the smart way to navigate this conference with this playoff model. But, I find I only want to watch two hours of each game. Navigating such a top heavy conference is far easier. But, I feel there are several teams that will step it up in the coming years and make this conference more competitive, and hopefully more exciting, in the years to come. Autzen has definitely opened some eyes. These big stadiums will see the need for some new energy. Maybe, just maybe, Oregon will make the B1G fun. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 13 Share Posted October 31 One of the Keys to OREGON Becoming Nationally Relevant - 2007 in the B1G House. 627 Yards on O and 4 Takeaways. "Let's Go Back, Get Together, and Do It Again!" Oregon launched national title hopes at the Big House in 2007. Can it finish the job in 2024? WWW.NYTIMES.COM Much has changed since Oregon beat Michigan 39-7 in its last visit to Ann Arbor in 2007. Now, the Ducks are in the Big Ten too — and No. 1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noDucknewby No. 14 Share Posted October 31 One thing I see is that the home field advantage is not as big as it was in the Pac-12. Every year a mediocre team wound up knocking off a contender at home. Despite the Bay Area and LA schools, places like the Palouse, Rice-Eccles, fusky and bean dip stadiums and the desert teams at night can be very difficult road games. Of course the rest of the conference absolutely hated coming to Autzen. I just don't see that in the B1G as much. Maybe Camp Randall or Happy Valley, otherwise I'm just not seeing it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 15 Share Posted October 31 Oregon teams prior to Dan Lanning would have difficulty in the B1G, (IMHO) because we did not have enough talent or depth in the trenches...especially at defensive line. Lanning's arrival and recruiting set us up perfectly to compete and win better than any Oregon team of the past. Lucky timing for us! 2 5 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksez No. 16 Share Posted November 1 This was one of the most insightful articles about the Ducks I've read in years. Kudos, @David Marsh! The PAC-12 had such diverse styles of play that there was no way to dominate, except to be creative and adaptive. Meanwhile, SEC and B1G teams were rote learning, over and over, through their season. PAC teams couldn't really prepare for the playoffs until after their conference games were over! Usually, an upset or two eliminated any of our teams from consideration for the four-team playoff. Our West Coast coaches had a Sophie's Choice dilemma -- recruit to win a conference championship (with speed, brains and width), or recruit for the trench warfare to win a championship with bulk and brawn, but knowing you'll likely get tripped up during conference play? Fascinating! Suggested new slogan: "It never rains in Autzen Stadium, but opposing teams can expect to get trenched." 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartm25 No. 17 Share Posted November 1 @David Marsh I still can't get over how good of an article this is. Well done!! What a great perspective/analysis/hidden gem. It might explain why tosu and Michigan (and to some extent Penn State hanging around) have dominated the top of this league for so long. When they all play a similar style of ball, it quite literally comes down to which team has the most talent . . . which is typically tosu and Michigan. The Old Pac-12 was a gauntlet of different styles. Wow, great article. Still has me thinking/pondering. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 18 Share Posted November 2 On 11/1/2024 at 4:06 PM, cartm25 said: I still can't get over how good of an article this is. Well done!! Agreed. We could be playing with snow coming down in the Palouse against an Air-Raid, or have a slug-fest with David Shaw versus Stanford the next week. It makes you begin to realize the gem of a conference we had, lost, and what the rest of the nation truly never knew. Thank you David! 1 2 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 19 Share Posted November 2 On 11/1/2024 at 4:06 PM, cartm25 said: @David Marsh I still can't get over how good of an article this is. Well done!! What a great perspective/analysis/hidden gem. It might explain why tosu and Michigan (and to some extent Penn State hanging around) have dominated the top of this league for so long. When they all play a similar style of ball, it quite literally comes down to which team has the most talent . . . which is typically tosu and Michigan. The Old Pac-12 was a gauntlet of different styles. Wow, great article. Still has me thinking/pondering. Thank you for your kind words. And playing off meta is how Oregon burst into the scene in a big way. A credit to the Brooks era to stabilizing Oregon and to Belloti for elevating Oregon and bringing in a certain offensive coordinator. But it was Kelly and Helfrich (yes Helfrich) playing off meta with the spread offense and up tempo. We couldn't recruit the linemen needed and instead they countered with raw speed and space. And it worked, big time! It worked so well that many elements of Oregon's offense became the META for football. Saban's Alabama and Dabo's Clemson national championship teams BOTH used elements of Oregon's offense. Kelly caught lightening in a bottle with the right offense, the right staff and the right players. Helfrich couldn't fully adapt to the changes in football when everyone caught up and the Ducks style of football wasn't so special anymore. There is much more in what went wrong for Helfrich but not going into that here. Lanning was a part of a shifting meta in the game away from high powered offense and back to smothering defense at Georgia. Now he's really brought in a high powered offense and now we are seeing that defense at Oregon. Lanning is changing the meta of the game right before our eyes! Enjoy it everyone. 2 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
