Intravenus de Milo No. 1 Share Posted January 29 A quick glance of threads and I didn’t see anything on the UM investigation RD wrote up yesterday. My thoughts as a totally biased Buckeye fan: 1 It is absolutely an advantage to know what the other team is doing on a given plan. 2 Sign stealing in itself is not against NCAA rules. The issue the NCAA has with UM is HOW they stole signs. 3 All coaches, including Harbaugh, knew. Hell, every staff in the conference knew what UM was up to, and no one with any reasonable logic believes that JH was the only one that didn’t know. 4 The NCAA is out for blood and UM is hanging by a thread. The only question is what degree of punishment is levied. UM has been belligerent from day 1 and it is going to come back to bite them big time. 5 I believe (hope) that vacated wins from 2021-23 seasons are on the table. None of this will erase my memories of the last 4 games…..but it will enhance my enjoyment of the offseason! What are your thoughts? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck Moderator No. 2 Share Posted January 29 On 1/29/2025 at 5:39 AM, Intravenus de Milo said: I believe (hope) that vacated wins from 2021-23 seasons are on the table. I agree that UM has looked bad during this whole process. As far as vacating wins? Taking them out of the books is real, but Ohio State didn't win the games now. Reggie Bush did win the Heisman, that apparently has been resolved now. Will UM still be the winningest? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJacksPlaidPants Moderator No. 3 Share Posted January 29 They can vacate the wins, but the players have stood on the podiums, kissed the trophies and received the rings. The fans have celebrated as well. The decision won't change anything but the history books. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven A Moderator No. 4 Share Posted January 29 What is the punishment for stealing the Houston Astros playbook? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck Moderator No. 5 Share Posted January 29 On 1/29/2025 at 7:41 AM, Steven A said: What is the punishment for stealing the Houston Astros playbook? The Houston Astros stealing signs is by far the worst to me. The worst part is that the commissioner purposefully left the players out of the investigation, no punishment whatsoever, Altuve holding his jersey tight is an indelible stain on their "championships". 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 6 Share Posted January 29 On 1/29/2025 at 10:13 AM, DrJacksPlaidPants said: They can vacate the wins, but the players have stood on the podiums, kissed the trophies and received the rings. The fans have celebrated as well. The decision won't change anything but the history books. Can the NCAA vacate wins it had nothing to do with except for determining player eligibility? The College Football Playoff Committee puts on the FBS Playoff, not the NCAA. The coaches and players may have gained an advantage from the scouting but does this lead to vacated wins? The NCAA fined Tennessee $8M for its pay-for-play chicanery before NIL. Is a fine the most likely remedy here? I'm in the Prime Time camp here. As Deion said: 'I can get all of the knowledge I need from looking at film.' At the time the charge of scouting came down I was surprised to see that in-person scouting in DFB is prohibited. Then again, I'm a Patriots fan. Congrats on the GREAT PO run. 4 top 10 teams, only one game at home. WOW! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 7 Share Posted January 29 If nothing major occurs in penalties...the fallout from that with tons of other teams engaging in such conduct will be worse than Michigan being sidelined a few years, IMHO. This is pretty egregious. And it hurts our conference no matter what happens from here... Questions for Harbaugh... 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUCati855 Moderator No. 8 Share Posted January 29 On 1/29/2025 at 5:39 AM, Intravenus de Milo said: a totally biased Buckeye fan: As a Duck fan my distain for UM does not rival yours... But, that whole sign stealing mess was obvious and cowardly. I understand why a OSU fan would feel and care the way you do. As for 2024... Congrats on turning your season around. Your team earned the championship. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 9 Share Posted January 29 Michigan has some dandy fans... 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 10 Share Posted January 29 So much fun to see the hate from fans elsewhere! 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 11 Share Posted January 29 This, from the 'Loyal Opposition.' Report: Michigan fires back at NCAA in 137-page response to Notice of Allegations WWW.MAIZENBREW.COM The University of Michigan appears ready to fight back against the NCAA, as detailed in its 137-page response, according to Yahoo Sports. Here is the latest chapter in the Connor Stalions saga: Are the Wolverine attorneys being paid by the pound? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 12 Share Posted January 29 On 1/29/2025 at 5:39 AM, Intravenus de Milo said: 5 I believe (hope) that vacated wins from 2021-23 seasons are on the table. But if those wins are vacated the biggest problem is that Washington WILL hang a National Champs banner for the 2023 season. We all know those Huskies would totally do that the minute those wins are vacated. 1 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDuck No. 13 Share Posted January 29 The team being punished is officially stripped of its victory, but the opposing team retains its loss—thus, vacated victories are different from forfeits, in which the losing team is given the win. When the NCAA forced a team to vacate a game the result is moved from the win/loss record. If a team went 4-7 for a season and had to vacate the 4 wins, their record becomes 0-7 for that season. One of the confusing aspect of vacating games is that causes no adjustment to the opponent’s record. If that 4-7 team beat a 6-6 team, the 6-6 team does not “get a win” (for a 7-5 record), nor is the loss wiped out (for a 6-5 record). That team’s record stays the same at 6-6. In Washington's case, the 14-1 record would remain 14-1 and not be 14-0 or 15-0. When they had a 12-0 regular season record, they were ranked No. 3 behind Georgia and Texas. After the Pac12 championship, they were No. 2 at 13-0. If the pre-1968 AP Poll rules were still in effect...which was a final ranking before the bowls...then UW would have been No. 2 in 2023, and Oregon would have been No. 1 in 2024. But, the AP changed their process beginning the 1968 season to conduct a last ranking after the bowls. UW had a "magical" season in 2023. They won 7 of their 14 wins by a TD or less, including all of their last 5 wins. Just like Oregon, UW has had 3 No. 2 AP final rankings, but never an AP No. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartm25 No. 14 Share Posted January 29 I've never been high on the "vacating wins" punishment; seems silly to me. Fine them and move on. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 15 Share Posted January 30 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 16 Share Posted January 30 Yikes. See Harbaugh's quote below... 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck Moderator No. 17 Share Posted January 30 On 1/29/2025 at 4:50 PM, Charles Fischer said: Yikes. See Harbaugh's quote below... Ironic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intravenus de Milo Author No. 18 Share Posted January 30 Now you guys get a sense of why we hate them so much. Yes, hate is metaphorical here, at least for me, but it is safe to say I have more dislike for this team and fanbase than all others combined. In general a smug fanbase, that until last year, had absolutely no reason to think so highly of themselves. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augduck No. 19 Share Posted January 30 The NCAA will move at their usual glacial pace so this should be resolved by 2048. It took them 4 years to figure out the Willy Lyles thing and this is way more complicated so resolution in 23 years seems reasonable. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Ducky No. 20 Share Posted January 30 Wonder how long lawyers will and have drug this out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 21 Share Posted January 30 BUMMER! Michigan Misses Illinois in 2025. Bret Bielema’s comments about Jim Harbaugh and Michigan are absurd WWW.MAIZENBREW.COM Illinois head coach Bret Bielema attempted to troll Jim Harbaugh and Michigan on social media, saying Harbaugh ran to the NFL. @WoodsFootball breaks down why Bielema’s comments are... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck Moderator No. 22 Share Posted January 30 On 1/29/2025 at 6:17 PM, Intravenus de Milo said: Now you guys get a sense of why we hate them so much. Yes, hate is metaphorical here, at least for me, but it is safe to say I have more dislike for this team and fanbase than all others combined. In general a smug fanbase, that until last year, had absolutely no reason to think so highly of themselves. Very similar to our enmity toward UW, the link between UM is tangible. Hard to believe that UM is smugger and more arrogant than UW, but it's possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar No. 23 Share Posted January 30 On 1/29/2025 at 12:46 PM, HDuck said: The team being punished is officially stripped of its victory, but the opposing team retains its loss—thus, vacated victories are different from forfeits, in which the losing team is given the win. When the NCAA forced a team to vacate a game the result is moved from the win/loss record. If a team went 4-7 for a season and had to vacate the 4 wins, their record becomes 0-7 for that season. One of the confusing aspect of vacating games is that causes no adjustment to the opponent’s record. If that 4-7 team beat a 6-6 team, the 6-6 team does not “get a win” (for a 7-5 record), nor is the loss wiped out (for a 6-5 record). That team’s record stays the same at 6-6. In Washington's case, the 14-1 record would remain 14-1 and not be 14-0 or 15-0. When they had a 12-0 regular season record, they were ranked No. 3 behind Georgia and Texas. After the Pac12 championship, they were No. 2 at 13-0. If the pre-1968 AP Poll rules were still in effect...which was a final ranking before the bowls...then UW would have been No. 2 in 2023, and Oregon would have been No. 1 in 2024. But, the AP changed their process beginning the 1968 season to conduct a last ranking after the bowls. UW had a "magical" season in 2023. They won 7 of their 14 wins by a TD or less, including all of their last 5 wins. Just like Oregon, UW has had 3 No. 2 AP final rankings, but never an AP No. 1 Do you really think that rules would stop Washington from claiming they were national champions? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 24 Share Posted January 31 This should make TOSU fans happy, right? https://athlonsports.com/college/ohio-state-buckeyes/ohio-state-buckeyes-jim-knowles-penn-state-nittany-lions-savage-message Ohio State Sucks? Hey Jimmy, don't let the door hit you in the butt on your way out. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intravenus de Milo Author No. 25 Share Posted January 31 NOTHING makes Ohio State fans happy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intravenus de Milo Author No. 26 Share Posted January 31 Does UW dislike you guys or WAZU the most? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 27 Share Posted January 31 On 1/31/2025 at 2:45 PM, Intravenus de Milo said: Does UW dislike you guys or WAZU the most? Usually it is Oregon, but this year with their embarrassing loss to the Cougars... 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck Moderator No. 28 Share Posted February 1 On 1/31/2025 at 2:45 PM, Intravenus de Milo said: Does UW dislike you guys or WAZU the most? I don't think UW hates the Cougars, I think it's the same as with us towards the Beavs, they're the little pests next door, annoying, sometimes extremely annoying, but I don't think it ever reaches the level of hate between UO and UW. Basically, UW doesn't care what WSU does, but the Rose Bowl for Oregon made their year! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike West No. 29 Share Posted February 1 On 1/29/2025 at 6:17 PM, Intravenus de Milo said: Now you guys get a sense of why we hate them so much. Yes, hate is metaphorical here, at least for me, but it is safe to say I have more dislike for this team and fanbase than all others combined. In general a smug fanbase, that until last year, had absolutely no reason to think so highly of themselves. I am trying to be respectful here. The level of unacceptable behavior from Ohio State fans the past two years in my opinion leaves me no room for empathy for their feelings towards another fan base. Michigan cheated in 2021 and 2022. Buckeye fans conflated that to 2023 knowing full well that was false. Then they had the temerity to act like hyenas in the jungle after Ryan Day lost games this year. Jackals as well. Death threats to a coach’s family is criminal in my opinion. That is beyond unhinged behavior. Calling him a loser when the guy has one of the most winning records ever is ridiculous. I will never look at the Ohio State fan base as acceptable. Nobody in that fan base took the time to say enough is enough. Nobody. College football is not life and death. It is a function of entertainment. When people start personalizing the game to the degree they stop acting appropriately towards others is the time to put an end to such behavior. That not one Ohio State fan actually called out fans for such behavior is disturbing to me. Worse, it was clearly evident to anybody that was paying attention that Ohio State was probably going to win the Natty. That makes the behavior even more disgusting because is was simply pile driving the team for no acceptable reason. So, I am going to say I don’t have much empathy for a fan base that feels other fan bases are out of line. Even Alabama fans have more decency than what Ohio State fans demonstrated the past 24 months. 1 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 30 Share Posted February 1 On 1/31/2025 at 4:07 PM, Mike West said: Death threats to a coach’s family is criminal in my opinion. That is beyond unhinged behavior. Calling him a loser when the guy has one of the most winning records ever is ridiculous. I will never look at the Ohio State fan base as acceptable. Nobody in that fan base took the time to say enough is enough. Nobody. College football is not life and death. It is a function of entertainment. When people start personalizing the game to the degree they stop acting appropriately towards others is the time to put an end to such behavior. 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intravenus de Milo Author No. 31 Share Posted Sunday at 02:36 AM Quote The level of unacceptable behavior from Ohio State fans the past two years in my opinion leaves me no room for empathy for their feelings towards another fan base. Like I said earlier in the thread, NOTHING makes the fans around here happy. I’ve got a buddy that complained the team let up vs UT (TN), UO, and ND instead of just being happy for a great 4 game run and a championship. There are 3 common categories of fans here: 1) rational-didn’t want Day fired and supported him 100%. This is a small group but it exists and is much bigger than you think. 2) The fire Day crowd-no threats, just no tolerance for losing….ever. Most of the people in this group never really played sports at a highly competitive level. Sadly, this was probably the largest group. 3) The Lunatic Fringe-we all know who was in this group. While small in numbers, they’re quite vocal and seem to garner the most attention. I’d love it if we’d start to prosecute them when physical violence is threatened. I am and always have been in the 1st group. Winning like Saban did is near impossible and shouldn’t be expected by any fanbase. I am happy that we have a good team every year and have a reasonable chance to compete for a title frequently. Arguing with the Lunatic Fringe is like one side of the political aisle trying to convince the other that they should change their views. It sounds great in theory but is a losing proposition. For the record, I have quite a few friends who are Michigan fans and we get along just fine. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 32 Share Posted Sunday at 04:04 AM On 2/1/2025 at 6:36 PM, Intravenus de Milo said: For the record, I have quite a few friends who are Michigan fans and we get along just fine. I have business associates that are Huskies, and I hold my nose when talking football with them. After we're done with that part of the conversation, I will tell them that since I uttered the "H" word, please pardon me while I turn to spit. It is funny, but there is some truth to it! You ARE in the first group, and frankly among the rare souls who are reasonable. I thought this forum would be five times bigger than it is at this time, but what I painfully learned is that most people do NOT want civility. They will leave as soon as they are simply "notified" that they broke a rule. I wasn't warning them, or banning them...just notifying them that they broke a rule and please be more aware going forward. Now let's forget about it and move forward...but they want to fight it. Sigh. So they leave because they love everyone being polite and respectful to them, but they want exceptions made for their behavior. Meanwhile we pick up great new people who love what we have, so the fun continues. So we have a small but very savvy community that I just love. You fit in wonderfully, and I wish we had another 30 or so people like you here. Thought you might enjoy this... 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 33 Share Posted Sunday at 06:50 PM USA's Matt Hayes is Not Hailing the Victors. Once a gold standard, Michigan football's response to NCAA violations shows it's just a common cheat WWW.USATODAY.COM The once proud Michigan football program is now your average NCAA cheat. And its excuses for breaking rules are laughable. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intravenus de Milo Author No. 34 Share Posted Sunday at 07:29 PM I feel like Charles and Jon should be honorary Buckeyes! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 35 Share Posted Sunday at 10:16 PM On 2/2/2025 at 2:29 PM, Intravenus de Milo said: I feel like Charles and Jon should be honorary Buckeyes! My Mom earned a Masters Degree from TOSU in Social Work. I'm named after a maternal Uncle, Jon Jones, who was a tank commander under Patton and KIA at The Bulge. Had he lived, Jon would have returned to TOSU for his senior year and been captain of the Golf Club. My other maternal uncle, Harvey Jones, survived combat and returned to captain the Michigan Golf Club. My grandfather was one of the founding members of Inverness Golf Club in Toledo. Ohio State undergrad, a Masters Degree in engineering from Michigan. My family had a difficult time figuring out which state won the War for Toledo. My football claim to fame. I was born in Toledo in the same hospital as Urban Meyer and Jim Harbaugh. Happy for Buckeyes, coaches, players, alumni, alumna, and fans worldwide. Can't wait for the next Ducks/Bucks game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck Moderator No. 36 Share Posted Sunday at 11:26 PM On 2/2/2025 at 2:16 PM, Jon Joseph said: Can't wait for the next Ducks/Bucks game. As long as it isn't the next Conference Championship Game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 37 Share Posted Monday at 12:21 AM On 2/2/2025 at 6:26 PM, 30Duck said: As long as it isn't the next Conference Championship Game. Wouldn't that be great? Defeat TOSU to win the title, claim the No. 1 seed, and rematch in the Rose Bowl? I don't think it's wise in the long run for those outside the Power 2 to veto a change in venue in 2025 that is coming in 2026. But ... Bill Connelly's 1st take on the 2025-26 PO has Ohio State as the No. 1 seed. Oregon is his No. 8 seed and OBD hosts No. 9 LSU, before playing TOSU in the Rose Bowl. Bill like most 'experts' does not believe the format will change next season; a season that will run five days longer than 2024-25 with the champ game in Miami on 1/25/26. Obvious format changes needed including the start and end of the season but in CFB the obvious rarely happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck Moderator No. 38 Share Posted Monday at 03:12 AM On 2/2/2025 at 4:21 PM, Jon Joseph said: Bill Connelly's 1st take on the 2025-26 PO has Ohio State as the No. 1 seed. Oregon is his No. 8 seed Turnabout's fair play? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck Moderator No. 39 Share Posted Monday at 03:45 AM On 2/2/2025 at 7:12 PM, 30Duck said: Bill Connelly's 1st take on the 2025-26 PO has Ohio State as the No. 1 seed. Oregon is his No. 8 seed BC probably made that prediction before thee Ohio State University lost their OL coach and both coordinators. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 40 Share Posted Monday at 04:01 AM On 2/2/2025 at 10:45 PM, 30Duck said: BC probably made that prediction before thee Ohio State University lost their OL coach and both coordinators. There are still plenty of 4 and 5* guys hanging around the TOSU program. I'm reasonably certain I could coach J. Smith: Run wherever you want to and catch it! And you only have to pay me $1M per annum. I don't think I could do worse than Chipper did vs. the Huskers and the Wolverines and the per-play call dough would have been much less. I posted the projected 2025 Bucks lineup under the Chip to Vegas post. TOSU will be no worse than 3rd in the 2025 combined Blue Chip Roster rankings and is currently a slight favorite at home vs. Texas and Penn State. Probably will not be an underdog in any game in 2025. I will be interested to see if Ohio State is still the favorite to win the 2025-26 title tomorrow on FanDuel and other gaming sites. As of now, FanDuel continues to have TOSU +450 to win the title with OBD and Texas tied for 2nd at +650. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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