Well the punishment for the Stallions spy gate has finally been given. After more than two years of investigations the NCAA decided thirty million dollars and an additional Sherrone Moore suspension is the penalty. I'd say that's pretty light considering the allegations that Michigan altered the 2022 playoff by giving South Carolina the plays to help beat both Tennessee and Clemson. Remember that was a six win South Carolina squad that hammered both in back to back weeks.

There were some special bands the Gamecock players wore those two games, but never again or before. I personally don't know what advantage Stallions provided, but I do know Harbaugh was on the verge of being fired prior to 2021. He couldn't beat Ohio State or win the B1G. But after pulling out of the 2020 game because of "health concerns" he went 3-0 vs Ohio State and ran the B1G. Losing just three games over his last three years and winning the 2023 National Title as his swan song.

Michigan fans are the most smug I've ever come across. I will cheer for just about anyone to be at them that's not named FSU, Miami, Georgia or Tennessee. Heck I actually went against even that when Georgia beat the bricks off them in 2022. I thought Alabama would take care of business in the Title Game to rationalize that.

The Ducks embarrassing Michigan this past year and 2007 was great entertainment. One of the reasons I'm a secondary fan of your great program.

I’m good with any decision that keeps the Fuskies from trying to claim another national championship.

Thanks, Gat. I think the fine, according to B1G Ten Network coverage, may be closer to $25 million, still a lot of money. Michigan was also hit with recruiting restrictions over the next four seasons. The NCAA appears to be over the nonsense of changing wins into losses. (Thank goodness. Otherwise, as the good Doctor points out, UW fans would rush to claim the 2023-24 championship.)

Interesting thoughts on South Carolina. Was this injury proved up by the Gamecocks?

Part of the financial hit and four-year prohibition is a result of Jim Harbaugh's escape to the NFL, ala Pete Carroll, and current HC Moore deleting his calls from his cell phone; a/k/a lack of cooperation.

I do not want to turn everything that happens in CFB into a B1G versus SEC battle but when I compare these sanctions to what was handed down to Tennessee not long ago, this seems to be over the top.

Tennessee, before NIL, and under Jeremy Pruitt, was found by the NCAA to be paying recruits and players on the roster, a direct pay-for-play scheme that resulted in a 'death penalty' judgment for SMU. No doubt paying players before NIL happened was the number 1 no-no on the NCAA's Hit Parade.

Paying players to sign with your school directly benefits the payor program. Did Michigan win a game on its way to a title because it stole signs? Would Michigan not have finished the season undefeated?

Many who follow CFB were surprised that the NCAA prohibited in-person scouting. (As for cooperation with the NCAA, the Big Ten sat Jim Harbaugh for three games in 2023, on the way to Michigan's title. Tony Petitti and B1G HQ filed a 'brief' on behalf of Michigan with the NCAA that noted the Harbaugh sanctions.)

Tennessee was fined $8 million and was hit with recruiting sanctions less onerous than the sanctions handed to Michigan. Yet again, the NCAA seems to hold teams outside of the Southeast to a higher standard.

Compare Miami's pay-for-play sanctions to SC's penalties for one player receiving excess benefits. Two decades of academic fraud at UNC were OK with the NCAA because 'regular students' as well as 'student athletes' cheated. How about the time, or lack thereof, it took the NCAA to sanction Oregon for using a third party outside the program to assist with recruiting? No schools in the SEC were using 'runners' to help with recruiting, right?

Michigan did avoid a postseason ban, but Michigan, at least in part, will appeal these sanctions first to the NCAA, and after being denied relief by the NCAA, will likely file an appeal in a court of law. One extra game of Moore sitting out is no big deal, but even for a Michigan program, a $20 million-plus fine directly from the football program's revenues and the restrictions placed on recruiting will not be accepted without protest.

These sanctions affect not only Michigan but the entire B1G. The NCAA's over-the-top SC sanctions, at the same time the Pac-12 Network came online, did not help the Pac-12's long-term financial viability. Pac-12 fans outside of Troy, happy with SC's sanctions, were penny-wise and pound-foolish. Games and championships matter, of course, but today, money matters equally if not more.

I fully expect others on the Forum to disagree with my POV, which is, of course, fine. But the B1G is in a financial race with other conferences, and these IMO over-the-top sanctions on one of the B1G's biggest brand names do not help the B1G conference in any respect.

Thanks for the post.

More on Moore and Michigan's Appeal to the NCAA -

Michigan football is fighting back against the NCAA even as questions linger

FYI, the NCAA cited Tennessee with 200 violations. 18 of the violations were Level One violations.

Michigan - 11 violations; six Level One violations.

I'm only fine with Michigan keeping their title because that means Washington can't claim it.

Though they might try anyways.

3 hours ago, Jon Joseph said:

Interesting thoughts on South Carolina. Was this injury proved up by the Gamecocks?

I don't know for sure, but according to many in Tennessee, Clemson, and TCU circles, this is a big deal. I had no interest in the story, but it was brought up to me many times. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence, but the NCAA has been pretty useless in court cases recently.

As for Tennessee, Miami and most of the SEC cheating regarding recruiting? Yeah I believe it. There were a lot of shady things happening everywhere, but the NCAA didn't enforce the rules because of the fact they were making money off the football games themselves. Why did they decide to go after SMU, USC and Miami then? Because it was so excessive and those programs were in major media markets. The NCAA had to do something to say "See we do have morals". You can go over the speed limit to a point. But you better not do it in a school zone, and you better not make it over five mph on holiday weekends.

Many Ohio State fans are crying about this because they believed they were hammered unfairly over something that didn't give them any sort of advantage in schematics or recruiting. They had guys who were selling their personal property for tattoos. For that transgression they lost their head coach, they got two seasons worth of games wiped out, they got scholarship reductions, and they got a postseason ban that cost them a shot at the 2012 National Title despite going 12-0. Is it fair? Probably not, but the NCAA has it's rules and those players broke them. Their head coach covered up their violation and lied about it.

If I was to be honest about it, I'd say Florida deserved a punishment for all of the player arrests and coverups in our 2009 squad. There was a pretty good documentary done about that mess.

But as far as the wristbands, the scouting, and the effect of Stallions. The video below is done by a Tennessee guy who does his research on it. He obviously has a reason, and yes he is bias towards the SEC. But as far as the South Carolina and Michigan ties and the advantage Stallions provided? I believe it. Like I said, look at Michigan under Harbaugh before Stallions. Look at them after, and I mean right after. Their recruiting didn't change. But all of a sudden they became significantly better.

A winning culture can create momentum, it doesn't matter how you get there. I believe Michigan changed their culture after getting momentum and has kept it going even after losing their advantage. But let's not overlook the fact that despite their wins over Ohio State and Alabama to end the season. They went back to losing five games.

Oregon won't lose five games any time soon under Lanning or anybody imo. Alabama won't be losing five games even after Saban. Ohio State hasn't lost five games this century outside of that 2011 season which was a result of tatoogate. Look at their recruiting and culture at those places.

Look at Michigan and tell me if there isn't any smoke. Also look at how quickly Harbaugh was trying to get out of town after he started winning. Jim was interviewing for NFL jobs for two off-seasons. Not just one, to me he knew something was coming. Why would he want to leave Michigan before the 2023 season when all of his players wanted to come back and finish their story?

Nice try...Michigan.

On 8/16/2025 at 12:30 PM, GatOrlando said:

let's not overlook the fact that despite their wins over Ohio State and Alabama to end the season. They went back to losing five games.

Well,

When you and I again are about as good as Michigan's QBs were last year, you're going to lose five games. It is ironic however, that they did beat Ohio State and Alabama again after losing five games.

I believe we all know Michigan was just better than everyone they played in 2023. Way better. Besides, the controversy started the beginning of that season, so Michigan wasn't stealing signs. They were just beating people up. As in dismantling the thought they were cheaters. They lined up, kicked butt, and left no doubt. Not hard when they returned so much talent and experience.

The time to have punished Michigan was in 2023. They deserved it immediately. I don't believe that would have changed results on the field though. I think they would have run up the score to prove a point. They were that good. It's time to honor their accomplishments in my opinion. They were pariahs, and they still took care of business. I respect a team that handles their business under such scrutiny.

3 hours ago, Mike West said:

Well,

When you and I again are about as good as Michigan's QBs were last year, you're going to lose five games. It is ironic however, that they did beat Ohio State and Alabama again after losing five games.

I believe we all know Michigan was just better than everyone they played in 2023. Way better. Besides, the controversy started the beginning of that season, so Michigan wasn't stealing signs. They were just beating people up. As in dismantling the thought they were cheaters. They lined up, kicked butt, and left no doubt. Not hard when they returned so much talent and experience.

The time to have punished Michigan was in 2023. They deserved it immediately. I don't believe that would have changed results on the field though. I think they would have run up the score to prove a point. They were that good. It's time to honor their accomplishments in my opinion. They were pariahs, and they still took care of business. I respect a team that handles their business under such scrutiny.

Great take, Mike. Michigan was 'punished' by the B1G in 2023 with the conference benching Harbaugh for three games. But the program wasn't fined.

Revisiting the NCAA sanction scoreboard.

Tennessee - 200 violations, 18 Level I violations - $8 million fine.

Michigan - 11 violations, 6 Level I violations - Between a $25 and $30 million fine.

'Justice,' Roy Bean and NCAA style. 🤬

3 hours ago, Mike West said:

Well,

When you and I again are about as good as Michigan's QBs were last year, you're going to lose five games. It is ironic however, that they did beat Ohio State and Alabama again after losing five games.

I believe we all know Michigan was just better than everyone they played in 2023. Way better. Besides, the controversy started the beginning of that season, so Michigan wasn't stealing signs. They were just beating people up. As in dismantling the thought they were cheaters. They lined up, kicked butt, and left no doubt. Not hard when they returned so much talent and experience.

The time to have punished Michigan was in 2023. They deserved it immediately. I don't believe that would have changed results on the field though. I think they would have run up the score to prove a point. They were that good. It's time to honor their accomplishments in my opinion. They were pariahs, and they still took care of business. I respect a team that handles their business under such scrutiny.

I respect the players. I'll even give a clap for Sherrone Moore a clap for standing in there and keeping that team together.

Who I won't ever celebrate is John Harbaugh. He is a guy who claims he does everything by the book. He claims to love Michigan. But he is a guy who couldn't get the job done, he was on the verge of being fired and was caught and suspended several times but never once admitted his faults. What does he do after running away from his greatest rival in 2020? He finds a more creative way to cheat, and he knew one day the truth would come out so he puts feelers out to numerous NFL teams for three years. Those three years just so happen to be his best three years, and he's getting closer each time to breaking through. His players Tstay after the heartbreaking loss to TCU for one last ride, Jim is still trying to get a job.

Finally he breaks through after serving two different suspensions. He gets Michigan that title and rides off into the NFL. What has he said about the Stallions situation? Nothing. He makes a brief statement about doing things the right way and Michigan people buy it with a smile. They claim he did nothing wrong.

Looking at his actions and all the evidence tells a different story. I'm not telling Michigan fans to not celebrate the title. That would be hypocritical as I still celebrate the 2006 and 2008 titles under Urban Meyer. Those squads were full of questionable players that we all know of. There were cover-ups from the top down, but there were also people who were genuinely good people and players who I'm still celebrating as just great guys and gals who made that time special. But Urban did scummy things and the people who did those terrible things and got away with it deserved punishment.

What Michigan did wasn't criminal, but it was cheating. There was lying and what did the conspirators get? They got everything they wanted. Not a great lesson to college kids.

On 8/16/2025 at 3:30 PM, GatOrlando said:

Why did they decide to go after SMU, USC and Miami then? Because it was so excessive and those programs were in major media markets. The NCAA had to do something to say "See we do have morals".

My issue is the inconsistency and lack of transparency.

The NCAA should have clear and consistent penalties for the severity of the infraction applied equally across all member institutions (take the college team name/mascot out of the equation).

Would Texas have received the death penalty, if it did what SMU did? Alabama? Ohio State? Notre Dame? USC?

8 hours ago, GatOrlando said:

I respect the players. I'll even give a clap for Sherrone Moore a clap for standing in there and keeping that team together.

Who I won't ever celebrate is John Harbaugh. He is a guy who claims he does everything by the book. He claims to love Michigan. But he is a guy who couldn't get the job done, he was on the verge of being fired and was caught and suspended several times but never once admitted his faults. What does he do after running away from his greatest rival in 2020? He finds a more creative way to cheat, and he knew one day the truth would come out so he puts feelers out to numerous NFL teams for three years. Those three years just so happen to be his best three years, and he's getting closer each time to breaking through. His players Tstay after the heartbreaking loss to TCU for one last ride, Jim is still trying to get a job.

Finally he breaks through after serving two different suspensions. He gets Michigan that title and rides off into the NFL. What has he said about the Stallions situation? Nothing. He makes a brief statement about doing things the right way and Michigan people buy it with a smile. They claim he did nothing wrong.

Looking at his actions and all the evidence tells a different story. I'm not telling Michigan fans to not celebrate the title. That would be hypocritical as I still celebrate the 2006 and 2008 titles under Urban Meyer. Those squads were full of questionable players that we all know of. There were cover-ups from the top down, but there were also people who were genuinely good people and players who I'm still celebrating as just great guys and gals who made that time special. But Urban did scummy things and the people who did those terrible things and got away with it deserved punishment.

What Michigan did wasn't criminal, but it was cheating. There was lying and what did the conspirators get? They got everything they wanted. Not a great lesson to college kids.

I can understand why you and other don’t like/respect Jim Harbaugh (JH).

However, as a Ducks and Niners fan, I believe he is one of the best football coaches in the game. He has won everywhere he has been, including Stanford. JH brought the Niners to the brink of the Super Bowl championship. Hopefully he can help Justin Herbert win one with the Chargers.

However, JH has a very abrasive personality and is extremely competitive (I used to love watching the hate between him and Pete Carroll LOL). I don’t doubt that he knowingly cheated but it was probably just a matter of time before he wore out his welcome in Michigan.

Edited Monday at 01:13 PM1 day by OregonDucks

Michigan is appealing another NCAA ad hoc judgment. The real law defers to precedent when doling out punishment or to statutory-mandated penalties or a range of penalties.

The NCAA makes it up as it goes along. Michigan's 11 violations were .055% of Tennessee's 200 violations. The Vols had 11 Level I violations, the same as Michigan's 'regular violations,' Michigan had 6 Level I violations.

The disparity in monetary damages is inexplicable. Buying players before NIL deals were legal gave tennessee a clear competitive advantage but earned Tennessee a comparative NCAA slap on the wrist.

CFB-HQ On SI

Why Michigan will appeal the NCAA's punishment, and what...

Michigan learned its fate this week after the NCAA revealed its full punishment for the Wolverines football program in the wake of the sign-stealing controversy

3 hours ago, OregonDucks said:

I can understand why you and other don’t like/respect Jim Harbaugh (JH).

However, as a Ducks and Niners fan, I believe he is one of the best football coaches in the game. He has won everywhere he has been, including Stanford. JH brought the Niners to the brink of the Super Bowl championship. Hopefully he can help Justin Herbert win one with the Chargers.

However, JH has a very abrasive personality and is extremely competitive (I used to love watching the hate between him and Pete Carroll LOL). I don’t doubt that he knowingly cheated but it was probably just a matter of time before he wore out his welcome in Michigan.

I have no personal distaste for the man. I do find him to be hypocritical when he complains about how certain programs don't follow the rules when it comes to the etiquette of football. This is a guy who broke covid rules multiple times, got suspended but said it was nothing. Coach you got suspended because you didn't respect the rules laid forward.

It wasn't for a cheeseburger or a sleepover. It was impermissible contact during covid.

I'm not even in the camp that wanted Michigan to lose their title or have it stripped from John's resume. I respect the job he did at Stanford, San Francisco, and now LAC. But he also has to own his losses and the rules he broke.

Most Michigan fans refuse to accept that their golden boy cheated. But boy did they want him gone after the 2020 season. It's clear something needed changing. He made those changes and it worked out for all those and most importantly for Jim.

But to me he isn't a bastion of college etiquette and Michigan isn't above suspicious behavior seen at such lower institutions as anybody but big blue. Seriously those people think they're like Harvard or Yale. It's a great public school, a public ivy even. But you aren't royalty, you aren't Cambridge University for Heavens sake.

Edited Monday at 05:00 PM1 day by GatOrlando

Good call on Cambridge, Gat. The Cambridge Blue did boat-race Oxford in this season's 196th edition of The Boat Race. 😁

However, Cambridge trails Oxford 81-88-1 in a series that is barely getting started. 🤔Perhaps Cambridge is the Ohio State of the top universities?

Michigan leads The Ohio State University in Rhodes Scholarship winners, 30 to 9. I'm reasonably certain that back in the day, Jim Harbaugh matriculated from Michigan to the NFL, having to Show Cause with his playing ability to the Chicago Bears and not his scholastic skills to Oxford deans.

PS - Bowdoin College has produced 22 Rhodes scholars 😎. (I wasn't on the very, very, exponentially long, let alone the short list 🤪.) So, the Polar Bears can tell Brutus to hit the Rhodes!

Go Gators! Take the wind out of the Hurricanes! And OBD, Round up Bob's Cats!

Urban, you know what they say about folks who live in glass houses, right?

Saturday Blitz

Urban Meyer declares the NCAA dead over the Michigan sign...

On Friday, the long-awaited decision was made when the NCAA finally put the Michigan Wolverines' sign stealing scandal to bed with their official decision. The

On 8/18/2025 at 11:07 AM, Jon Joseph said:

Good call on Cambridge, Gat. The Cambridge Blue did boat-race Oxford in this season's 196th edition of The Boat Race. 😁

However, Cambridge trails Oxford 81-88-1 in a series that is barely getting started. 🤔Perhaps Cambridge is the Ohio State of the top universities?

Michigan leads The Ohio State University in Rhodes Scholarship winners, 30 to 9. I'm reasonably certain that back in the day, Jim Harbaugh matriculated from Michigan to the NFL, having to Show Cause with his playing ability to the Chicago Bears and not his scholastic skills to Oxford deans.

PS - Bowdoin College has produced 22 Rhodes scholars 😎. (I wasn't on the very, very, exponentially long, let alone the short list 🤪.) So, the Polar Bears can tell Brutus to hit the Rhodes!

Go Gators! Take the wind out of the Hurricanes! And OBD, Round up Bob's Cats!

Jon you overwhelm me with your research sir. I do have an off topic story about how people over in the UK didn't understand how we are obsessed with how our sports teams perform at "University". They equate extended education as nothing more than a tool to get a higher profession.

I asked a couple jokingly who was the national champion in tiddly winks and I got the dryest stares you could imagine. I felt like I had just been in the Sahara for a month straight.

As far as the Ducks go, I've heard this might be the last year for your annual "Civil War". I imagine the Beavers will try and keep that series going, but I don't see the benefit of it being home and home to the Ducks. Maybe a 2 for 1?

Florida is still hated by Hurricane fans because that same proposition was made by Steve Spurrier back in the day. Those touchy Hurricane fans still hold it against the Gators to this day. In some ways they hate us more than they hate FSU.

Here's hoping both the Ducks and Gators send little brother back to their respective holes with memorable losses.