Let's Just Take Miami's Money and Move on.

[The Kamikaze Kid]

Mario's silence is his statement. If your lady asks you if it's going to be her or the other woman and you pause to think, it's already over. Pretty much the same thing going on here. I say pull the offer and move on with some dignity. Maybe offer a top D coach from the SEC (Georgia, Alabama), let him bring along a position coach to run his system then giving the him $$$ to shower on the top offensive brain available. That $9,000,000 from Miami could go along way stocking up on top notch assistants.

 

We shouldn't be acting like it's Mario or bust.

[Graziani93]

Agree with you 100%.  MC leaving is a blessing in disguise.  I do appreciate the stability and recruiting that Mario brought for the last few years - a 10-3 record is nothing to sneeze at.  But watching the in-game coaching of this guy, especially this year, we were never going to get to the next level.  The "toughness" mantra never really materialized.  Let's move forward.  Wilcox, Peterson, even today's Chip will be vast improvements in the coaching-up of players (not just the rah-rah aspects but the real X's and O's) and in-game performance.  Thank you, Mario, buh bye.

[Haywarduck]

Agree, but first let's get somebody on the job of finding a capable coach to clean up this mess!

[CalBear95]

On 12/5/2021 at 3:36 PM, Graziani93 said:

Wilcox, Peterson, even today's Chip will be vast improvements in the coaching-up of players 

Petersoe lost his fire and is, by his own admission, done.  This is mentioned many times but it seems to be a recurring theme among many posts.

 

Chip's day has come and gone.  He can't beat the SEC teams and the game has caught up to him.  Innovative guy but no longer the disrupter he once was.

 

Hiring Wilcox is a move that feels like an overreaction to the 'I want to go home to X' issue.  "I know, we hire our own 'home is here' guy."  Wilcox is a middle of the road coach.  He very likely isn't as bad as his record at Cal but he has zero business even being in the consideration set for Oregon.  

 

Maybe I just see things differently because I am not a Duck alum.  Oregon is a premier destination and should and can demand an elite coach. 

 

You know who is a much better coach than Justin Wilcox?  Jonathan Smith.  That guy can flat out coach and is dealing with probably less than Wilcox.  

 

To quote my wife, I say this because I care about you: you are letting sentimentality and a bit of an irrational inferiority complex (with a bit of not wanting to have your heart ripped out yet again and see the program continually suffer this way) push you to shoot far below your level.

 

You guys are a top 15/20 program.  Believe in that and demand the best not retreads, burnouts or nostalgia.

[Haywarduck]

On 12/5/2021 at 4:00 PM, CalBear95 said:

Hiring Wilcox is a move that feels like an overreaction to the 'I want to go home to X' issue.  "I know, we hire our own 'home is here' guy."  Wilcox is a middle of the road coach.  He very likely isn't as bad as his record at Cal but he has zero business even being in the consideration set for Oregon.  

 

Maybe I just see things differently because I am not a Duck alum.  Oregon is a premier destination and should and can demand an elite coach. 

 

You know who is a much better coach than Justin Wilcox?  Jonathan Smith.  That guy can flat out coach and is dealing with probably less than Wilcox.  

 

To quote my wife, I say this because I care about you: you are letting sentimentality and a bit of an irrational inferiority complex (with a bit of not wanting to have your heart ripped out yet again and see the program continually suffer this way) push you to shoot far below your level.

 

You guys are a top 15/20 program.  Believe in that and demand the best not retreads, burnouts or nostalgia.

Ok let's really look at that. I tend to think Cal and OSU are pretty comparable, both tough schools to win at, little support. The beavs probably have more fan support, but CAL is a draw academically, climate wise, and just closer to athletes.

 

Wilcox has been at Cal one more year. He has one more winning year than Jonathan. He also has two bowl appearances and a win in a bowl game. Jonathan hasn't been to a bowl nor won one as a coach.

 

If there is a inferiority complex it is thinking an Oregon guy can't lead the Oregon program. We don't need some superstar coach, who looks upon Oregon as a huge paycheck, stepping stone, and a place to leave on fire. When I saw Brian Kelly try and throw the southern accent it made me think of Cristobal trying to sell us on knowing Oregon, loving Oregon, just an effort.

 

We need somebody who knows Oregon, Mario didn't know Oregon, he sold us on the idea he loved Oregon, but he didn't. There is a guy who grew up close to Autzen bleeds green and yellow and would be a great coach.

 

He isn't just from Oregon, was a great assistant and could be a good coach. I liked the idea of Helfrich, but he wasn't a great coach and look at what he did with far less than Wilcox would inherit.

 

If people want Jonathan Smith then we should definitely want Justin. Anyone think Jonathan could do better at Oregon than he is at osu? Same can be said of Justin, and I believe a lot better. We have a support system which gives him just about anything he needs to succeed. The same will be given to the next coach, lets try and make sure the next guy doesn't just burn it all down when he gets an itch.

[CalBear95]

@HaywarduckYour perspective assumes each coach took over comparable situations.  They did not.  Wilcox inherited Sonny Dykes' talent which was not that bad.  They could not play D which was a large part of what drove Wilcox's hiring.  He has since completely strangled Cal's offense.  Also, he recruits in California for a major university.  That is by no means a wash with OSU's fan support.  In fact, it's a materially differentiated advantage.

 

If you switched roles, I wager Smith would be far outpacing Wilcox.

 

Wilcox simply hasn't proven he can coach at a high level.  There is no bias in his being ex-Oregon.  The bias is completely the other direction. 

 

Simple thought exercise to help remove confirmation bias: if Wilcox had not played at Oregon, how many here would be advocating Mullens poach him from Cal?  Almost certainly none. And for good reason.

[1Ducker1]

Mullens and Phil will go after a big name coach

[Graziani93]

You make some good points but I dissent. You keep saying in your posts that Petersen has "lost his fire" and is "done". Link the source or provide a quote. This just sounds like your opinion, which you're entitled to, but you have no back up for it. Many top-tier coaches take a break from coaching for one reason or another and do television work. I just saying it might be worth exploring if he's interested as he checks all the boxes (Oregon ties, great X's and O's, good character guy).

 

I'm a Cal and Oregon alum. I mostly follow the Ducks these days but keep an eye on my Bears. Wilcox if anything brings about a toughness in his teams (not the BS kind that MC preaches), especially on defense that I'd love to see on the Ducks. Cal, due to the academic standards, cannot get the players that Oregon can. Perhaps Wilcox falls short of MC in recruiting but with Oregon's level of talent, Wilcox will certainly exceed his "success" at Cal. Give him a few years and he can exceed MC's ceiling.

 

You might be right about Chip - I may be longing for times past. However, unlike Slick Willie or MC, it was not a backstabbing situation (leaving for a similar or lower level school for more money). Chip had to give NFL a shot. If he's willing to listen, I would jump at the chance of experiencing his offensive genius again. Like someone else mentioned, imagine what he could do with TT next year.

 

Bottom line, any of these 3 would be an upgrade in football acumen, "real" toughness, and character.

[Haywarduck]

On 12/5/2021 at 5:08 PM, CalBear95 said:

@HaywarduckYour perspective assumes each coach took over comparable situations.  They did not.  Wilcox inherited Sonny Dykes' talent which was not that bad.  They could not play D which was a large part of what drove Wilcox's hiring.  He has since completely strangled Cal's offense.  Also, he recruits in California for a major university.  That is by no means a wash with OSU's fan support.  In fact, it's a materially differentiated advantage.

 

If you switched roles, I wager Smith would be far outpacing Wilcox.

 

Wilcox simply hasn't proven he can coach at a high level.  There is no bias in his being ex-Oregon.  The bias is completely the other direction. 

 

Simple thought exercise to help remove confirmation bias: if Wilcox had not played at Oregon, how many here would be advocating Mullens poach him from Cal?  Almost certainly none. And for good reason.

You make some good points. I would just add I would be happy with the hire and hope others would give him a chance if he was hired. Oregon has a way of making great coaches out of nobody's, Mario was just a good recruiter, and is now in line to make bank.

 

I also don't want to see us reach out to another coach, in desperation, who will then just leave like the last two. Maybe we had something magical with Bellotti, but a west coast guy who likes the area is a must for me. We shouldn't be desperate, but time is of the essence and the clock is ticking.

 

I also admit I would find it more acceptable hiring a qualified Oregon alumni, rather than somebody from Florida or any school without a west coast connection. I will own that bias. I would also add one of the reasons Smith is doing so well at OSU is he is from OSU, can sell the magic of OSU. Wilcox could do the same at Oregon.

 

[Haywarduck]

I think another perspective we should all take is we have no input on who will be hired. We can vent and proselytize, but it doesn't make one person more right than the other.

 

I will make my make my basic points. We need somebody from the west coast, knows the west coast, wants to be here, isn't just talking the talk. We also need somebody who has shown they can be successful as a head coach, and not limit ourselves to who can win a national championship, those are a rare bird. Our program has shown we make coaches better, we just need to find a coach who truly appreciates what we bring, not just what they would bring! 

 

The big question is who is going to be the next great Oregon Head Football Coach, and nobody knows! We can talk about what we want and why, but each of our opinions is worth ink it is written in, wait there is no ink.

 

 

[CalBear95]

On 12/5/2021 at 5:15 PM, Graziani93 said:

You keep saying in your posts that Petersen has "lost his fire" and is "done". Link the source or provide a quote. This just sounds like your opinion, which you're entitled to, but you have no back up for it.

Here is one article that may not prove he's 100% out but, I think, it answers the thrust of your question: https://footballscoop.com/news/the-parable-that-told-chris-petersen-he-was-right-to-walk-away

 

I'll go back to my question: but for his status as an alum, can any people advocating for him to take the reins at Oregon provide a data driven view he should be in the top 3-5 candidates considered? 

 

I get the 'infectious passion' argument.  But passion doesn't a coach make just as being an awesome recruiter doesn't either. 

 

There has not been a coach since Tedford that has succeeded at Cal so I am not insensitive to Wilcox's challenges (the typically Berkeley's gonna Berkeley response to just about anything)

 

But why take the risk?  'At least he won't abandon us like the last two coaches?'  That's playing off your back foot.  I'm not Mullens so nobody has to justify their perspective on this to me or anyone else for that matter.  But I just don't get the argument

 

Jonathan Smith has OSU on the rise because he is a really good coach. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by CalBear95

[McDuck]

On 12/5/2021 at 5:15 PM, Graziani93 said:

You make some good points but I dissent. You keep saying in your posts that Petersen has "lost his fire" and is "done". Link the source or provide a quote. This just sounds like your opinion, which you're entitled to, but you have no back up for it. Many top-tier coaches take a break from coaching for one reason or another and do television work. I just saying it might be worth exploring if he's interested as he checks all the boxes (Oregon ties, great X's and O's, good character guy).

 

 

Peterson still works within the UW athletic dept.  If he wanted back into coaching all he needed to do was say the word and the Huskies would have hired him in an instant.  I would bet good money that UW asked him if he was interested.

[McDuck]

Wasn't Wilcox leading the Boise State defense that took several cheap shots at Oregon players and injured Jeremiah Masoli, forcing him from the game?

[Haywarduck]

On 12/5/2021 at 5:58 PM, CalBear95 said:

  'At least he won't abandon us like the last two coaches?'   But I just don't get the argument

That isn't the argument, but nice attempt to frame it that way, and not the way it should be played.

[Charles Fischer]

On 12/5/2021 at 6:04 PM, McDuck said:

Wasn't Wilcox leading the Boise State defense that took several cheap shots at Oregon players and injured Jeremiah Masoli, forcing him from the game?

 

Yep, I wrote an article about it eight years ago and the Wilcox family made FishDuck persona-non-grata for interviews as a result.

 

Justin's defense flinging Marcus Mariota into a bench head-first....

[CalBear95]

On 12/5/2021 at 6:05 PM, Haywarduck said:

That isn't the argument, but nice attempt to frame it that way, and not the way it should be played.

But it is isn't it? 

 

Maybe not overtly and certainly not the whole argument as there has to be something other than that.  But it's there for sure.

 

I hope this point doesn't read as either judgmental or dismissive.  I think we all want the best outcome and I have nothing but respect and belief that drives your passion on this issue.  I just think the aversion for this 'just following my heart' scenario is - understandably - leading to an over rotation and subsequent interest in a coach who would otherwise never hit Mullens' radar any day of the week.

 

Again, my POV.  If others also think I am way off/making a straw man argument, open to feedback.

[Haywarduck]

On 12/5/2021 at 6:34 PM, Charles Fischer said:

 

Yep, I wrote an article about it eight years ago and the Wilcox family made FishDuck persona-non-grata for interviews as a result.

 

Justin's defense flinging Marcus Mariota into a bench head-first....

Great article, and throttled my enthusiasm for Justin Wilcox. He may have been a Duck, but he has lost his feathers, and can no longer fly up and see a grander viewpoint while seeing right from wrong, I suppose.

[Haywarduck]

On 12/5/2021 at 6:40 PM, CalBear95 said:

But it is isn't it? 

 

Maybe not overtly and certainly not the whole argument as there has to be something other than that.  But it's there for sure.

 

I hope this point doesn't read as either judgmental or dismissive.  I think we all want the best outcome and I have nothing but respect and belief that drives your passion on this issue.  I just think the aversion for this 'just following my heart' scenario is - understandably - leading to an over rotation and subsequent interest in a coach who would otherwise never hit Mullens' radar any day of the week.

 

Again, my POV.  If others also think I am way off/making a straw man argument, open to feedback

 

 

What I have been afraid of for a while with the Oregon program is an elitist attitude to become predominant. Oregon isn't an elitist program never was, never should become that way. We are a program which stands up for integrity, and this is why Charles argument was so persuasive to me. 

 

We do need to embrace whoever is chosen, much like we did with Dana Altman. Many were calling for all the elite coaches and guaranteed titles. That isn't the Oregon way, and our radar is broad, not narrow and we don't take into consideration any, at leasts. We will hire, make someone better, we will get better, and grow from it. Unfortunately Marios positive impact may be mostly destroyed, but we will persevere.

[CalBear95]

On 12/5/2021 at 7:09 PM, Haywarduck said:

What I have been afraid of for a while with the Oregon program is an elitist attitude to become predominant. Oregon isn't an elitist program never was, never should become that way.

I can appreciate that concern but I see a difference between wanting to raise the bar on a hire versus a view that would be consistent with some perception of superiority stemming from arrogance a la many among Ivy League grads who probably got in on the strength of being a legacy.

 

I'm am not turning my nose up at Wilcox because he doesn't have some pedigree or whatever.  He's simply way too much of a stretch for a program that has no reason to take that level of risk.

 

Winning with class and in a highly ethical manner is min bar.  On this I think we can all agree.  But an elite coach or a coach who is good and can become elite aren't in contrast with this core principal.  Wanting somebody who is really good at their job isn't mutually exclusive with finding someone who fits in with Oregon's historic and present culture and values.

 

I hear your point as suggesting or perhaps outright saying they are which I hope isn't the case.

Edited December 6, 2021 by CalBear95

[Duckpop22]

On 12/5/2021 at 5:23 PM, Haywarduck said:

You make some good points. I would just add I would be happy with the hire and hope others would give him a chance if he was hired. Oregon has a way of making great coaches out of nobody's, Mario was just a good recruiter, and is now in line to make bank.

 

I also don't want to see us reach out to another coach, in desperation, who will then just leave like the last two. Maybe we had something magical with Bellotti, but a west coast guy who likes the area is a must for me. We shouldn't be desperate, but time is of the essence and the clock is ticking.

 

I also admit I would find it more acceptable hiring a qualified Oregon alumni, rather than somebody from Florida or any school without a west coast connection. I will own that bias. I would also add one of the reasons Smith is doing so well at OSU is he is from OSU, can sell the magic of OSU. Wilcox could do the same at Oregon.

 

Did I just read "the magic of OSU?"

[Wood Duck]

I was remembering when Oregon hired Altman, I didn't know who he was or anything about him. For me it was a head scratcher. No ties to the west coast or U of O

 that I'm aware of and look at the success he's had here. I think he was a home run hire, and I hope Mullen and PK can find someone similar for the football team.

I hope (and suspect) they may have started searching three weeks ago.