Damn Right: What the College Football Playoff Could Learn from March Madness

[Charles Fischer]

Do you agree?  Seems to me that both college basketball and the NFL have it all figured out, while CFB stumbles...

 

What the College Football Playoff could learn from March Madness

WWW.SPORTINGNEWS.COM

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College basketball has its postseason figured out. If only college football could do the same.

 

[jgeiger]

I really enjoy the CFP as it exists right now. I think that there are only a small handful of teams that have a realistic 
chance to win the natty in any given year. See Georgia/Alabama of last season. 

I don't think its necessary to add many more teams because the blowouts in the early rounds will still continue, and we will be left with the same top teams that would have made it in the original 4 team format.

Even in a 12 team format, does anybody expect #12 Pitt to win vs Bama or Georgia? Let alone a 16 team field where #14 Oregon, (who just got wiped off the map by Utah) would be making the field. 

I think we should continue to keep the CFP at 4 teams.
 

[30Duck]

Absolutely agree. "March Madness" is, has, always been my favorite sports time of the year, with Oregon involved or not. Many times, the Ducks have been there, so even better. The regular season of college basketball is great, the Bracketologist's start week 1.

 

Sure, there are a group of teams always at the top. But they aren't always the same every year in the Final Four like in the CFP. Also, unlike football, there aren't a bunch of other games that nobody cares about before the championship starts. As soon as the conference season ends, the conference tournaments start, and then "March Madness" begins!

 

I don't care who's playing, I can watch every game, and with the way they're scheduled on four different networks, you actually can watch almost every game!

[Steven A]

On 3/10/2022 at 9:54 AM, cartm25 said:

CONS:

1) NONE!!!!!!!!

I'll add acouple..... 1) Byes for the top four, all teams should play the same number of games, this isn't basketball where you can play 3 or 4 days in a row; I think 4 extra games is too many, Conference CShip + maybe 3 more playoff games.

 

I like an 8 team, no byes.  Auto bids for the 5, then, as usual a beauty contest for the other 3 SEC spots.

[The Kamikaze Kid]

What if all teams dropped one scheduled game off the schedule and then teams that don’t make the playoffs add a bonus game at the end? 

 

This keeps everyone playing the same amount of games while adding a playoff round for 12 teams.
 

 

[DUCati855]

After reviewing a list of current bowl games (to me) there are maybe 8-10 bowl games that mean anything. I feel it makes since to create an expanded playoff using these bowls on dates in Dec. that currently are not used in CFB. The rest of the bowls can be used, as the linked article stated, as some sort of NIT tournament.

 

But, there are so many hands in the pot I do not feel it will ever happen under the current conference/bowl ties. It likely will take some sort of complete refresh of CFB in order for this an expanded playoff. Something like... Two super conferences comprised of two divisions each.... Maybe we could call the league Minor League Football and the championship could be called the Mega Bowl!

[Tandaian]

I think the madness everybody loves is there DURING the regular season for CFB.   I'd say what Cincy did during the regular season was a 12 game Cinderella run to the final 4.  If they lose, they aren't invited.  CFB craziness just isn't condensed to 1 month.  One could argue CFB actually has a season long tournament.

 

It is exciting to watch basketball teams win their conference tournament to win a spot in the final 68, but then most of those teams get bounced their 1st game once they reached the "tournament".  You have a double digit seed win a couple games, but then get lose in the sweet 16 or great 8.  It has only happened 1 time where all four #1 seeds made the final 4, but the parity in basketball is much closer than it is in CFB.

 

Since, they don't play the games, we don't know, but when they expand to more teams, I have a feeling there will be few crowned champions seeded 5th - 8/12/16th in CFB.

[30Duck]

On 3/10/2022 at 10:42 AM, Tandaian said:

I think the madness everybody loves is there DURING the regular season for CFB.

The madness in the college football season to me is that as soon as your team loses a game, it's out of the CFP. In basketball it helps to win your conference, you're automatically in, but if you play well, you can still make it to the Dance. 

 

The N0.1 seeds rarely comprise the Final 4, a 12 often beats a 5, and so on and so on. Parity does exist in college basketball. It's really not even desired by the powers that be in college football, ESPN, SEC, but even Paul Finebaum knows that expanding the Playoffs is needed to keep 95 % of the teams and fans interested. 

[Charles Fischer]

On 3/10/2022 at 9:54 AM, cartm25 said:

I'll always be in favor of an expanded playoff. The variation I've liked the best is a 12-team with automatic bids for conference champions.

 

PROS:

1) More teams = matchups we don't see very often. Anyone else a bit exhausted with Bama, GA, Clemson, tOSU, and Oklahoma playing each other nearly every year?

2) One-&-Done, NO MORE!! This has over lapping benefits discussed below.

3) Hope - You can lose a game or two and still make the playoffs if you win your conference.

4) Better Out-of-Conference matchups - The "Hope" discussed earlier will lead to better matchups because one loss won't ruin your season, AND, if you don't win the conference and an automatic bid, strength of schedule will still be important

5) Incentivizes team development. Example = Utah. They lost their first 3 games, switched QBs and then rolled the rest of the P12. Would have made the CFP in an expanded form with automatic bids.

6) Begin to release the recruiting stranglehold the 5 teams I mentioned earlier have. Imagine a P12 team hitting their stride and being able to tell a recruit in the region, "You can stay close to home, play with us, and make the CFP."

 

CONS:

1) NONE!!!!!!!!

Amen.  I vote for this too....and No. 5 is vital.

[Jon Joseph]

On 3/10/2022 at 1:16 PM, The Kamikaze Kid said:

What if all teams dropped one scheduled game off the schedule and then teams that don’t make the playoffs add a bonus game at the end? 

 

This keeps everyone playing the same amount of games while adding a playoff round for 12 teams.
 

 

$? You would have to figure out how to replace the revenue from a 'lost game?' 

 

The 12th game gives many the program a 7th home game. While it may not be the case out west, Alabama and every SEC team not named Vanderbilt, sells the game out no matter how bad the quality of the opponent.

 

Go to 11 and you also are removing one 12th of your media inventory.

 

A playoff expansion will happen come the 2026 season because athletic departments badly need the additional money. More money is one reason the CBB tourney field has grown significantly over the decades. It's a zero sum game trying to make up lost money in additional playoff proceeds while losing the income the 12th game brings in.

 

Calendar wise, you fit the expanded playoff in by everyone starting play in Week Zero and beginning expanded playoff play two weeks after the conference champs games with at least the 1st round played at the home of the higher seeded teams. 

 

 

[Jon Joseph]

How about this? CFB was fine for many the decade when, on occasion, multiple champions were crowned. The BCS and the current BCS x 2 have completely monetized CFB. Coaching salaries are to the moon ridiculous, as is the cost from number of administrative positions that have been created. 

 

And I do not believe a player's game ipso facto improves by having a waterfall in the locker room. 

 

No matter how you expand the playoff, financially, the B1G and the SEC are in a world of their own. The top teams will be the top teams. Yes, from time to time a Clemson will show up but this is the exception and not the rule.

 

Let's look at NIL pay-for-play. With schools being able to 'bid' for recruits, over 50% of the top recruits in the 2022 cycle still went to 4 schools; A+M, Bama, UGA and Ohio State. And picking from the portal has helped teams like Baylor and Michigan State but the top teams, the teams that consistently send many the player to the NFL, simply fill the small holes in their rosters from the portal.

 

I think that CFB as expressed by ACC commissioner Jim Phillips, is facing an existential crisis. Continue to follow the money and players will form a union, be paid directly, either by their school or a 3rd party associated with their school, be drafted out of high school and CFB will officially be NFL-Lite.

 

Expanding the playoff field will provide access but it will also open more spots for additional SEC/B1G teams to compete. No matter how the playoff expands, the SEC and the B1G will be the biggest beneficiaries. 

 

We did get a breath of playoff fresh air in 2021 with Michigan and Cincinnati making the final 4. These two teams were both mugged by SEC opponents. 

 

I am an old nostalgic guy who has watched CFB for 7 plus decades. I could advocate for a return to the days when it was all about the Cotton, Orange, Sugar and the Rose Bowl; this will not happen. Money has 'corrupted' the game and there is no going back.

 

I love that Charles brought this topic to the table. But no matter the way, shape or form in which the CFB playoff field is altered, it will not bring 'March Madness' to CFB. You have the 'right' 8 guys in CBB and the 'little guy' can compete. Football roster size and money flowing disproportionately to 2 conferences simply means what has always been the case in any big business; the rich will get richer.

 

Even in the football tournaments managed by the NCAA and with much larger fields than we have in the BCS x 2, the 'usual suspects' for the most part show up and win.

 

There is a way to bring parity to CFB. But the G5/P5 would have to be reduced to 32 to 40 teams with a high school draft being implemented. Until such time, look at the roster rankings coming into the season. You need not go lower than the team ranked No. 8 to pick out the winner of the G5/P5 playoff, no matter the size of the field.

 

I'm sorry but I do not see December/January Madness happening.

[Jon Joseph]

On 3/10/2022 at 9:08 AM, jgeiger said:

I really enjoy the CFP as it exists right now. I think that there are only a small handful of teams that have a realistic 
chance to win the natty in any given year. See Georgia/Alabama of last season. 

I don't think its necessary to add many more teams because the blowouts in the early rounds will still continue, and we will be left with the same top teams that would have made it in the original 4 team format.

Even in a 12 team format, does anybody expect #12 Pitt to win vs Bama or Georgia? Let alone a 16 team field where #14 Oregon, (who just got wiped off the map by Utah) would be making the field. 

I think we should continue to keep the CFP at 4 teams.
 

A reasonable take, no doubt.

 

What I think many folks miss about the current structure is that it is not just the final 4 participants that make bank. You also have 4 other NY6 bowls involved and with these slots open in addition to the top 4, the SEC routinely sends 3 to 4 teams to the money bowls year after year. A few years back, WAZZU lost 2 games and LSU lost 3 games. What team went to the Fiesta Bowl? The Bayou Bengals. 

 

Up to me? I'd prefer a return to the 'good old days' when The Run for the Roses was the be-all, end-all for the Pac-8, 10, 12 and the Big 10. This isn't going to happen. Short of this, I'd prefer a return to the BCS. Isn't going to happen.

 

In the proposed 12 team format the Pac-12, 2020 was aberrational, will, even without an automatic bid, get its champion in the field. But will the champion be seeded 5-8 and play a 1st round home game? And having won a 1st round game how will it do thereafter against a top 4 team that had a bye? This is not like the NFL that has far more roster equality. 

 

How much added interest will 1 'west coast' representative add? The extra $ from expanding the field will be nice but IMO it will do next to nothing to balance out recruiting.

 

Look at the roster rankings coming into 2022. 3 of the teams in the top 6 will be in the final 4 and 1 will win the title.

 

Expanding the CFB field is not about parity, it is about $.

[Jon Joseph]

From a recent survey of Big 10 fans conducted by The Athletic.

 

85% + favor playoff expansion; in a similar poll 75%+ of SEC fans favor playoff expansion.

 

8 teams - 48.9%

 

12 - 30.5%

 

4 - 7.4%

 

6 - 6.6%

 

Should the Big 10 expand? No - 70.9% - Yes - 29.1%

 

Conference games - 9 - 51.6%/ 8 - 37.2%/ 10 - 11.2%

 

By a large margin B1G fans want to eliminate divisions; 2 highest ranked teams play in the champ game.

[30Duck]

On 3/10/2022 at 12:02 PM, Jon Joseph said:

 

Expanding the CFB field is not about parity, it is about $.

It is. But there is no doubt in my mind that expanding the CFP to more than 4, and pretty much the same 4 -6 teams every year is about more than just $.  A level of apathy has already taken over 94% of the fanbases across the country that affects not only the championship but the regular season as well.

 

Expand the CFP to include the P5 conference winners the interest/excitement across the country will expand with it. Alabama, Georgia, the regular's will certainly be the favorites, but even if they end up winning in an expanded field doesn't mean it was a mistake to add more teams. 

[Jon Joseph]

On 3/11/2022 at 12:34 PM, 30Duck said:

It is. But there is no doubt in my mind that expanding the CFP to more than 4, and pretty much the same 4 -6 teams every year is about more than just $.  A level of apathy has already taken over 94% of the fanbases across the country that affects not only the championship but the regular season as well.

 

Expand the CFP to include the P5 conference winners the interest/excitement across the country will expand with it. Alabama, Georgia, the regular's will certainly be the favorites, but even if they end up winning in an expanded field doesn't mean it was a mistake to add more teams. 

I do not disagree with you. Seeing as how we are not going back to the pre-BCS days, I am totally in favor of Playoff expansion at the P5 level and I am also in favor of the G5 holding its own playoff, with the G5 receiving some of the P5 $ to temper political concerns.

 

I am not in favor of Notre Dame being a stakeholder; having the same power voting-wise as do entire conferences.

 

I'm not certain come 2026 that there will be a P5? Will the ACC, B1G, Pac-12 and the SEC give the 'new' B12 the same status it had without OK and TX being part of the conference?

 

Will there be additional conference expansion before 2026? Clemson and FSU are tied into a bad media deal through 2036, but Greg Sankey has indicated the SEC is not finished expanding and these two are rumored to be next up for the SEC. 

 

There is a big financial gap between the B1G and the SEC and the other 3 P5 members and this gap is going to significantly expand after the next round of media negotiations. And who knows where pay-for-play and players as employees will go; especially, with the NCAA walking away from regulating G5 and P5 football.

 

Having said this, I favor an 8 team field. Using today's conference format, 5 P5 champs and 3 AL. No guaranty that a G5 team gets in unless, like Cincinnati last season, a G5 team is ranked in the top 8. If this was the format, looking at the PO Committee's rankings in the 8 seasons of the PO to date, the SEC is likely to have 3 teams in every year and the B1G likely to have at least 2 in. So expansion will likely lead to more national interest and will certainly deliver more to the bottom line but IMO, will not bring parity to CFB. 

 

In favor of the forlorn hope of returning to the pre-BCS days, the Rose Bowl this season drew slightly fewer viewers than the number who watched the Alabama/Cincinnati semi-final. 

 

Of course, it doesn't matter what I think. Come 2026, the B1G and the SEC will have the financial advantage and accordingly, the playoff format negotiating leverage. 

[30Duck]

On 3/11/2022 at 10:07 AM, Jon Joseph said:

So expansion will likely lead to more national interest and will certainly deliver more to the bottom line but IMO, will not bring parity to CFB. 

Absolutely agree. There will be no parity in CFB as long there are separate conferences all looking out for their own best interests. this problem was exacerbated by the CFP which made getting into the CFP the end all of the season.

 

The only way parity can exist at all, short of the Super Conference is to have all the conferences come together under one governing body, The SEC and B1G will still have their inherent advantages but there would be unform schedules and a playoff determined by winning the conference not a committee, 

[Jon Joseph]

On 3/11/2022 at 1:29 PM, 30Duck said:

Absolutely agree. There will be no parity in CFB as long there are separate conferences all looking out for their own best interests. this problem was exacerbated by the CFP which made getting into the CFP the end all of the season.

 

The only way parity can exist at all, short of the Super Conference is to have all the conferences come together under one governing body, The SEC and B1G will still have their inherent advantages but there would be unform schedules and a playoff determined by winning the conference not a committee, 

Great take.

 

No way do I see the B1G and the SEC sharing their revenues with 'lesser' conferences. It could well end up that there is no consensus regarding the playoff come 2026; actually, well before 2026 because the Playoff Committee has to have a done deal in 2025 at the latest, to shop to the media. 

 

Even if these 2 big boy conferences did share, without a high school draft I do not see parity coming to CFB. I don't see a HS draft working unless you had a 'Super League' of 24 to 40 teams.

 

Expand the PO field to 6/8 or 12 and there will be more money, no doubt. But how will the money be split? This was GK's biggest concern. He was not going to vote for a playoff extension beyond 2026 before knowing the financial terms.

 

The SEC takes in Clemson and FSU and the B1G responds by taking in AAU member schools (Pitt, UVA, UNC, Duke, Georgia Tech, Kansas and Iowa State are logical candidates) then why not just have a playoff of BIG and SEC schools? Add Clemson to the SEC and the B1G has 1 PO championship and the other 7 champs would all be 'SEC teams.' Add in Oklahoma who has made the Final 4 on 4 occasions.

 

To date the Pac-12 has 1 PO win, the B12 has zip. 

 

I'm following Charles' recommendation. Let's enjoy THIS while we can. At least a 4 team PO field is the devil the Pac-12 knows.

 

CFB is changing so rapidly and there are so many unknowns. One 'unknown' I would be willing to bet on, the ACC will not hold together as-is. I'm not quite as certain on a merger of B12/Pac-12 teams, but I do think this has to happen in some fashion or another for 'western' CFB to be financially and competitively viable.