A Possible Explanation of the Quarterback Controversy -- and a reason for some hope

[David Marsh]

The Oregon fan base on the whole is very negative right now, unbearably so at times. This forum has been mild compared to the other ones out there that I browse.

 

Fans have been screaming about a couple of quarterback related things this past week, especially around why Brown is still the starter which is justified.

 

First off, Cristobal said to the media a few days ago that Brown is still the starter. This is a bye week, there have been a few practices but a whole lot of time where coaches haven't even been in the state of Oregon as they have been out recruiting and visiting recruits. Also the players are in recovery. In short this isn't a normal week and though there are certainly discussions going on behind the scenes amongst coaches about the QB situation. Though at the end of the day there is NO POINT for MC to say anything besides Brown is still QB1 right now. They haven't had time to fully evaluate their options and why should MC appease the fans and tell us they are opening the QB competition and give Cal a helping hand?

 

Second, let's not forget Moorhead had surgery before the Stanford game and was unavailable for that game. That hurt the play calling, no matter what is said and something like that probably had the players a bit rattled and players get used to their coaches and what the play calls look like. Changing this up right before the game would have had an effect on the players and this is an anomaly and the timing couldn't have been worse but it is what it is.

 

Furthermore, Moorhead is not only the OC but also the QB coach. When things were looking bad at Stanford and Oregon is without their QB coach any idea of putting in a backup QB would have gone right out the window, unless of course they had to put in a freshman because Brown went down. Moorhead would be involved in any change in quarterback decisions coming up, especially next week. Hopefully Moorhead is back at practice in some way next week and I am sure he will be involved in the conversation about quarterback. As Moorhead is still recovering, MC is probably telling the truth that Brown is still QB1, but mostly because there probably haven't been any official changes made at this time.

 

The team really needed this bye week to get healthy. However, the fans really didn't need this bye week, this is probably the most negative I have seen the broader Oregon fan base in a very long time. Remember we only have 1 loss and it came with numerous factors, the reffing being a large factor as well, and many media pundits have said as much as well. I'm channeling Jon Joseph's optimism right now but Oregon is still in it for another Pac-12 championship and maybe even a playoff berth if they take care of business. Stanford lost last night to Arizona State which helps out Oregon a lot.

 

I think I just needed this rant probably more than it needed to be heard. I think there are some problems at quarterback and I do believe that we need to see one of the freshman play to give us all some hope of the future. But for now we just need to be a bit more patient and wait for next week. If things don't change next week then I feel the negativity is more warranted.

[Steven A]

When asked about AB’s play and QBing in general, paraphrasing what Cristobal said is ......it starts and ends with how you run the offense. Making sure everyone knows what the play is.  On passes, the protection that goes with that play, and the route structure that goes with it.  In comparing AB with “The Others”, they have done well in practice, it's just not near the level of AB.

 

With AB leading the offense, the Ducks are second in the country in turnovers committed, 2; and scores points 91% percent of the time they the red zone (TDs at 74%) 18th nationally.

 

So, are we better off with the better QB now and let The Others battle it out in practice; or, battle test the others at the sacrifice of this season?

 

It's hard on us fans as we see somewhat sub-par QB play, but at the present, we evidently don't have anything better to throw out there.
 

[David Marsh]

True... Though again MC said what he said because there really wasn't anything else to say. It was all pretty boiler plate stuff. 

[Babyjesus615]

On 10/9/2021 at 2:03 PM, Confused said:

Dixon, Mariota, Harrington, Herbert, Clemens, were all elite college QB’s.  They also were on field coaches and leaders.   That, in my opinion, is what’s missing.   Second concern is this.  If your an elite receiver do you want to come to this offense?  If your an elite pro style QB do you want to come to Oregon Now?   These blue chippers want to win and they want to shine for possible NFL contracts.    Right now it’s pretty dull in Oregon.  Most talented team in history looks like it’s coached by a volunteer. 

This is exactly what I was getting at in an earlier post about Cristobal establishing an offensive identity before he claims he has a "system" because he has neither. The identity of this offense will convey to potential recruits what their role will be on the team. This dink and dunk, short to medium yardage stuff doesn't require an elite receiving corps. You can do this with average tight ends and average receivers. Let's hope these guys don't start seeing more NFL potential in the school to the north because those receivers at least get to run down the field for more than 15 yards.

[jrw]

On 10/9/2021 at 1:41 PM, David Marsh said:

The Oregon fan base on the whole is very negative right now, unbearably so at times. This forum has been mild compared to the other ones out there that I browse.

 

Fans have been screaming about a couple of quarterback related things this past week, especially around why Brown is still the starter which is justified.

 

First off, Cristobal said to the media a few days ago that Brown is still the starter. This is a bye week, there have been a few practices but a whole lot of time where coaches haven't even been in the state of Oregon as they have been out recruiting and visiting recruits. Also the players are in recovery. In short this isn't a normal week and though there are certainly discussions going on behind the scenes amongst coaches about the QB situation. Though at the end of the day there is NO POINT for MC to say anything besides Brown is still QB1 right now. They haven't had time to fully evaluate their options and why should MC appease the fans and tell us they are opening the QB competition and give Cal a helping hand?

 

Second, let's not forget Moorhead had surgery before the Stanford game and was unavailable for that game. That hurt the play calling, no matter what is said and something like that probably had the players a bit rattled and players get used to their coaches and what the play calls look like. Changing this up right before the game would have had an effect on the players and this is an anomaly and the timing couldn't have been worse but it is what it is.

 

Furthermore, Moorhead is not only the OC but also the QB coach. When things were looking bad at Stanford and Oregon is without their QB coach any idea of putting in a backup QB would have gone right out the window, unless of course they had to put in a freshman because Brown went down. Moorhead would be involved in any change in quarterback decisions coming up, especially next week. Hopefully Moorhead is back at practice in some way next week and I am sure he will be involved in the conversation about quarterback. As Moorhead is still recovering, MC is probably telling the truth that Brown is still QB1, but mostly because there probably haven't been any official changes made at this time.

 

The team really needed this bye week to get healthy. However, the fans really didn't need this bye week, this is probably the most negative I have seen the broader Oregon fan base in a very long time. Remember we only have 1 loss and it came with numerous factors, the reffing being a large factor as well, and many media pundits have said as much as well. I'm channeling Jon Joseph's optimism right now but Oregon is still in it for another Pac-12 championship and maybe even a playoff berth if they take care of business. Stanford lost last night to Arizona State which helps out Oregon a lot.

 

I think I just needed this rant probably more than it needed to be heard. I think there are some problems at quarterback and I do believe that we need to see one of the freshman play to give us all some hope of the future. But for now we just need to be a bit more patient and wait for next week. If things don't change next week then I feel the negativity is more warranted.

David Marsh, you are an island of reasonableness in a sea of excessive vitriol. 
 

OTOH, Lincoln Riley pulled Spencer Rattler for a freshman QB against Texas and the Sooners came back for the win. 

[David Marsh]

On 10/9/2021 at 8:04 PM, jrw said:

OTOH, Lincoln Riley pulled Spencer Rattler for a freshman QB against Texas and the Sooners came back for the win. 

Thank you for your kind words. 

 

I think this is an interesting example with what Oklahoma did to beat Texas. Bama did it against Georgia a few years ago with Tua as well. 

 

Though we can point to examples this has worked in the past the question is, does it apply to THIS Oregon team? 

 

I want to say... Yes it absolutely should! 

 

But the reality may not be so and we don't have access to all that practice time. We will have to wait a week to find out if the coaches think it's time or not. 

 

The fans think it's time, that's for sure. 

 

Also remember this team is 50% freshman and we are expecting them to play like seniors. 

[jrw]

On 10/9/2021 at 8:14 PM, David Marsh said:

Thank you for your kind words. 

 

I think this is an interesting example with what Oklahoma did to beat Texas. Bama did it against Georgia a few years ago with Tua as well. 

 

Though we can point to examples this has worked in the past the question is, does it apply to THIS Oregon team? 

 

I want to say... Yes it absolutely should! 

 

But the reality may not be so and we don't have access to all that practice time. We will have to wait a week to find out if the coaches think it's time or not. 

 

The fans think it's time, that's for sure. 

 

Also remember this team is 50% freshman and we are expecting them to play like seniors. 

I think there’s a good reason why no football team has turned to crowd-sourced coaching. 

[oregon112]

On 10/9/2021 at 2:03 PM, Confused said:

  Most talented team in history looks like it’s coached by a volunteer. 

More like coached by a little league dad. 

 

If Oregon was playing Texas today, would the Oregon staff be able to make adjustments, and change QBs to win?    I hope everybody agrees that the answer to that question is  'NO'. 

 

Can Oregon's coaching improve?   Yes, in theory.  But this is Cristobal's 4th year. 

 

Can we cut them a little slack because they have 2 new coordinators and 2 new systems?   ---  I would normally say yes, but I would expect improvement as the season went on.  Not seeing that at all so far.  I am thinking now that the whole staff isn't all that great.  Most likely they will be under-performing for a few more years. 

 

It went downhill fast with Helfrich - it was a like a tire blowout on the freeway.   This team is like a slow air leak where the tire is mushy and you have put air in it every day - not enough to stop you from driving, but enough to let you know that your car shouldn't be working this way. 

 

I'm chilling out.  I went off the deep end last year.  My expectations are lowered until they get a top tiered coach. 

 

USC's coaching is a mess - and they have future NFL players.  Much of the same kind of problem. 

[Haywarduck]

Cristobal also said he won't demote or discuss the qb decision process in public. I agree we don't know what is going to happen, but the underlying story is what is disturbing to me.

 

We are in an interesting time and as long as the team is behind AB, along with the coaches all will be good. Cristobal isn't going to be swayed by what the press or fans think. The fans and most if not all the press doesn't see the practices where the decision is mostly based. 

 

I think there will be some issues with the team if AB is being beat in practice and the change isn't made. So what if AB is the best, the rest just aren't better than what we have been seeing, these guys also can't accurately throw the ball down the field

 

What is distressing to me is we have a group of highly rated qb's who evidently aren't as good as what we are seeing on game day. If AB is the best, and the qb's below aren't developing into something better then we are seeing on the field, that is disturbing.

 

Maybe Cristobal is right, AB gives us the best chance, if that is true, then that is what is alarming.

[Mike West]

On 10/9/2021 at 1:41 PM, David Marsh said:

The Oregon fan base on the whole is very negative right now, unbearably so at times. This forum has been mild compared to the other ones out there that I browse.

 

Fans have been screaming about a couple of quarterback related things this past week, especially around why Brown is still the starter which is justified.

 

First off, Cristobal said to the media a few days ago that Brown is still the starter. This is a bye week, there have been a few practices but a whole lot of time where coaches haven't even been in the state of Oregon as they have been out recruiting and visiting recruits. Also the players are in recovery. In short this isn't a normal week and though there are certainly discussions going on behind the scenes amongst coaches about the QB situation. Though at the end of the day there is NO POINT for MC to say anything besides Brown is still QB1 right now. They haven't had time to fully evaluate their options and why should MC appease the fans and tell us they are opening the QB competition and give Cal a helping hand?

 

Second, let's not forget Moorhead had surgery before the Stanford game and was unavailable for that game. That hurt the play calling, no matter what is said and something like that probably had the players a bit rattled and players get used to their coaches and what the play calls look like. Changing this up right before the game would have had an effect on the players and this is an anomaly and the timing couldn't have been worse but it is what it is.

 

Furthermore, Moorhead is not only the OC but also the QB coach. When things were looking bad at Stanford and Oregon is without their QB coach any idea of putting in a backup QB would have gone right out the window, unless of course they had to put in a freshman because Brown went down. Moorhead would be involved in any change in quarterback decisions coming up, especially next week. Hopefully Moorhead is back at practice in some way next week and I am sure he will be involved in the conversation about quarterback. As Moorhead is still recovering, MC is probably telling the truth that Brown is still QB1, but mostly because there probably haven't been any official changes made at this time.

 

The team really needed this bye week to get healthy. However, the fans really didn't need this bye week, this is probably the most negative I have seen the broader Oregon fan base in a very long time. Remember we only have 1 loss and it came with numerous factors, the reffing being a large factor as well, and many media pundits have said as much as well. I'm channeling Jon Joseph's optimism right now but Oregon is still in it for another Pac-12 championship and maybe even a playoff berth if they take care of business. Stanford lost last night to Arizona State which helps out Oregon a lot.

 

I think I just needed this rant probably more than it needed to be heard. I think there are some problems at quarterback and I do believe that we need to see one of the freshman play to give us all some hope of the future. But for now we just need to be a bit more patient and wait for next week. If things don't change next week then I feel the negativity is more warranted.

I like the positive vibe.  I guess we could look at it like Nick Saban did last night.

 

I guarantee you THEY will not play another lazy down the rest of the year though.

 

We could only be so lucky.

[Jon Joseph]

On 10/9/2021 at 4:41 PM, David Marsh said:

The Oregon fan base on the whole is very negative right now, unbearably so at times. This forum has been mild compared to the other ones out there that I browse.

 

Fans have been screaming about a couple of quarterback related things this past week, especially around why Brown is still the starter which is justified.

 

First off, Cristobal said to the media a few days ago that Brown is still the starter. This is a bye week, there have been a few practices but a whole lot of time where coaches haven't even been in the state of Oregon as they have been out recruiting and visiting recruits. Also the players are in recovery. In short this isn't a normal week and though there are certainly discussions going on behind the scenes amongst coaches about the QB situation. Though at the end of the day there is NO POINT for MC to say anything besides Brown is still QB1 right now. They haven't had time to fully evaluate their options and why should MC appease the fans and tell us they are opening the QB competition and give Cal a helping hand?

 

Second, let's not forget Moorhead had surgery before the Stanford game and was unavailable for that game. That hurt the play calling, no matter what is said and something like that probably had the players a bit rattled and players get used to their coaches and what the play calls look like. Changing this up right before the game would have had an effect on the players and this is an anomaly and the timing couldn't have been worse but it is what it is.

 

Furthermore, Moorhead is not only the OC but also the QB coach. When things were looking bad at Stanford and Oregon is without their QB coach any idea of putting in a backup QB would have gone right out the window, unless of course they had to put in a freshman because Brown went down. Moorhead would be involved in any change in quarterback decisions coming up, especially next week. Hopefully Moorhead is back at practice in some way next week and I am sure he will be involved in the conversation about quarterback. As Moorhead is still recovering, MC is probably telling the truth that Brown is still QB1, but mostly because there probably haven't been any official changes made at this time.

 

The team really needed this bye week to get healthy. However, the fans really didn't need this bye week, this is probably the most negative I have seen the broader Oregon fan base in a very long time. Remember we only have 1 loss and it came with numerous factors, the reffing being a large factor as well, and many media pundits have said as much as well. I'm channeling Jon Joseph's optimism right now but Oregon is still in it for another Pac-12 championship and maybe even a playoff berth if they take care of business. Stanford lost last night to Arizona State which helps out Oregon a lot.

 

I think I just needed this rant probably more than it needed to be heard. I think there are some problems at quarterback and I do believe that we need to see one of the freshman play to give us all some hope of the future. But for now we just need to be a bit more patient and wait for next week. If things don't change next week then I feel the negativity is more warranted.

 

David, yesterday was a darn good day for idle Oregon to sit back and watch.

 

ASU as many of us believed would happen handed Stanford its 2nd conference loss. The Ducks Pac-12 N destiny is back in Oregon's hands. Win out and Oregon is the North champ. Missing ASU on the regular season schedule is a good break.

 

40 top 25 ranked teams have lost in the first 6 weeks of this season. Last time this happened was 1936.

 

Kentucky is 6-0 for the first time in 71 years, back when Bear Bryant was coaching the Wildcats.

 

Wake Forest is 6-0 for the first time in 77 years. Even Mr. FishDuck and I are too young to have seen that Wake team play. Wake is WOKE.

 

Preseason top 10 UNC is 3-3 and Mack Brown is now 0-8 against his alma mater FSU. For all disgruntled Ducks fans, you could be Tar Heels fans.

 

As noted above, Lincoln Riley had the minerals to pull 'Heisman' Spencer Rattler in favor of a true frosh QB whose senior year of HS ball was COVID cancelled. The young man brought OK back from a 21 point deficit for the biggest comeback in Red Rival Shootout history. The 103 points in OK/TX game mirrored the 103 in the Ole Miss/Arkansas game. Looks like the Horns and Sooners Ds are well prepared for the SEC?

 

Iowa won when Penn St QB Clifford exited the game. Iowa has no ranked teams left on its remaining schedule. In the B1G E, Penn St, Michigan, Michigan State and Ohio State all have to play one another. Divisions matter.

 

And speaking of Ohio State, the Buckeyes obliteration of Maryland yesterday helps the Ducks cause. I still believe that with its offense, Ohio State will win the B1G title.

 

DO NOT GIVE UP THE GOOD SHIP PUDDLES. All of the remaining teams on the Ducks schedule are beatable. And all depending on how Oregon plays can beat the Ducks.

 

But the coaches do have to wake up like Wake. Perhaps change the starting QB as did Lincoln Riley and perhaps start calling some of great O plays and playing with the tempo we saw out of Riley, Sark and Kiffin.

 

 

 

 

[Triphibius]

I do not want to deny all credit and ascribe all blame to Anthony Brown, and I don't want to overreact to one frustrating but unlucky defeat. That said, Caleb Williams, a freshman, came off the bench to lead an Oklahoma comeback against Texas yesterday. Apparently, Lincoln's Riley's well-respected offensive system is not too complex for at least one freshman to operate. (Spencer Rattler also started as a freshman, if I recall correctly.)

 

Our offense, by contrast, is said to be too complicated for true freshman Ty Thompson and second year QB Jay Butterfield, both of whom have shown the ability to throw the deep ball, unlike the current Oregon incumbent. Granted, I don't see them in practice, but it is not as if QB Brown is constantly making perfect reads in the run game. I am not a coach, but I understand that Moorhead's system requires the QB to make a difficult read on nearly play. I was encouraged by his hire, but perhaps there is a downside to it that we are now seeing. 

[Mike West]

On 10/9/2021 at 3:03 PM, Babyjesus615 said:

This is exactly what I was getting at in an earlier post about Cristobal establishing an offensive identity before he claims he has a "system" because he has neither. The identity of this offense will convey to potential recruits what their role will be on the team. This dink and dunk, short to medium yardage stuff doesn't require an elite receiving corps. You can do this with average tight ends and average receivers. Let's hope these guys don't start seeing more NFL potential in the school to the north because those receivers at least get to run down the field for more than 15 yards.

 

Offensive Coordinators play to a QB's strengths.  Brown is efficient, and every once in awhile hits a deep pass.

 

He puts no air under his deep balls.  He can correct that.  He also aims (instead of throws) his deep passes.  

 

For the life of me, I don't know why coaches don't use easy ups ( passes during warm ups at the beginning of practices and games) as drills < for the sake of timing those speedy WRs  downfield >.

 

Brown needs to work overtime on getting the correct feel for each of his WRs on his deep passes.  

 

It's time to earn A+ results for A+ effort.

 

Championships are earned behind the scenes.  Brown has a shot at accuracy downfield.  He needs to put in the work with his boys though.  

 

And while they're at it, those LBs need serious work on pass coverage to help the secondary out.  

 

[Charles Fischer]

On 10/10/2021 at 10:14 AM, Haywarduck said:

What is distressing to me is we have a group of highly rated qb's who evidently aren't as good as what we are seeing on game day.

 

And it may not be about their talent....

[Jon Joseph]

On 10/10/2021 at 1:42 PM, Mike West said:

 

Offensive Coordinators play to a QB's strengths.  Brown is efficient, and every once in awhile hits a deep pass.

 

He puts no air under his deep balls.  He can correct that.  He also aims (instead of throws) his deep passes.  

 

For the life of me, I don't know why coaches don't use easy ups ( passes during warm ups at the beginning of practices and games) as drills < for the sake of timing those speedy WRs  downfield >.

 

Brown needs to work overtime on getting the correct feel for each of his WRs on his deep passes.  

 

It's time to earn A+ results for A+ effort.

 

Championships are earned behind the scenes.  Brown has a shot at accuracy downfield.  He needs to put in the work with his boys though.  

 

And while they're at it, those LBs need serious work on pass coverage to help the secondary out.  

 

 

Mike, he has had 6 years to correct this deficiency. He is going to 'get it' now? 

 

He is playing the same way he did at BC. He is not elevating the play of guys around him and better athletes than those he played with at BC have not elevated his game.

 

If you want to play risk-adverse ball, play not to take a loss, Brown is your guy. But if you want to play with verve, energy, tempo? Play to win? Brown is not the guy.

 

I think many programs in the country without the depth of the Ducks QB room would already have benched Brown?

 

I love Brown's guts but Brown has hit his ceiling. He is not going to magically up his game.

[Mike West]

On 10/10/2021 at 11:03 AM, Jon Joseph said:

 

Mike, he has had 6 years to correct this deficiency. He is going to 'get it' now? 

 

He is playing the same way he did at BC. He is not elevating the play of guys around him and better athletes than those he played with at BC have not elevated his game.

 

If you want to play risk-adverse ball, play not to take a loss, Brown is your guy. But if you want to play with verve, energy, tempo? Play to win? Brown is not the guy.

 

I think many programs in the country without the depth of the Ducks QB room would already have benched Brown?

 

I love Brown's guts but Brown has hit his ceiling. He is not going to magically up his game.

I get that Brown is consistent.  But SO WAS HIS COACHING.

 

He still overthrows wide open fade routes.  That's coaching my friend.  Braxton Burmeister hits open fade routes now.  Remember how bad he was?

 

I actually watched Burmeister torch North Carolina twice this year.  If he can do it, so can Brown. 

 

BROWN THINKS TOO MUCH.  

 

Quarterbacking is just a game of pitch and catch.  You start there, then build your foundation.  Easy ups are the perfect tool to teach the kind of form (process) one needs to complete each type of pass.  

 

For guys with strength issues, that matters because it's about timing. Brown has enough strength, but he lacks technique.  Because he hasn't been coached on his main weakness.  

 

Burmeister is not strong enough to throw deep passes like Brown can.  But he does it far better than when he was as Oregon.  And Burmeister is far more comfortable (and effective) as a result.

[Haywarduck]

On 10/10/2021 at 12:05 PM, Mike West said:

I get that Brown is consistent.  But SO WAS HIS COACHING.

 

He still overthrows wide open fade routes.  That's coaching my friend.  Braxton Burmeister hits open fade routes now.  Remember how bad he was?

 

I actually watched Burmeister torch North Carolina twice this year.  If he can do it, so can Brown. 

 

BROWN THINKS TOO MUCH.  

 

Quarterbacking is just a game of pitch and catch.  You start there, then build your foundation.  Easy ups are the perfect tool to teach the kind of form (process) one needs to complete each type of pass.  

 

For guys with strength issues, that matters because it's about timing. Brown has enough strength, but he lacks technique.  Because he hasn't been coached on his main weakness.  

 

Burmeister is not strong enough to throw deep passes like Brown can.  But he does it far better than when he was as Oregon.  And Burmeister is far more comfortable (and effective) as a result.

I wish it was that simple, then we could coach up every kid who can throw it deep. Todd Marinovich is just one in a long line of guys who could throw it deep and looked good in practice. It isn't just about coaching, some kids have it and some don't, AB hasn't had it for 6 years.

 

I get it Marinovich had more problems than a sat entrance exam. The point is still valid, some guys look good, but aren't going to lead a college team to greatness or ever play pro ball. There are others who can, time to find out who that is!

[oregon112]

No hope until there is a change at QB.  I would be thrilled if any of the three backups got promoted. 

 

Brown has too many problems:   bad reads, bad throws, cannot make the progressions, and he gives up on pass plays before there is any pressure. 

 

That is too much for coaching to overcome.  The fact that he was this bad the fifth game of the season, when he started every game AND he played a lot the last two games last season, AND he was in Moorhead's system last season, largely as THE backup, and not on the scout team...

 

tells me that this is too high of a hill to climb. 

 

Rattler has some similarities.  Being the starter this long and still making too many mistakes. Riley made a change, but Cristobal will not. 

 

Cristobal would rather lose every game than make any changes.