Late-Season Learning Lumps With Lanning and Lupoi

[FishDuck Article]

 

Troubling observations about the lack of defensive adjustments.  Are the defensive chops of our HC and DC overrated?

 

Late-Season Learning Lumps With Lanning and Lupoi

FISHDUCK.COM

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In yesterday's article about Oregon's defense in 2022, I raised some important questions for us to ponder going forward. Yet it is not complete without this new...

 

[Quackanadian]

Nice article Dazed. I was thinking the same things, all the way up here and to the east.

 

I suppose as time goes on we should see coaching and game specific scheme improvements? I mean, even Helfrich did such things for certain games!

 

Is this why a boat load of defensive dudes are gone?

 

Cheers.

[HappyToBeADuck]

Thank you Dazed for the well thought out and detailed article. This just leaves me with just one question about the coaches and players, why?

 

Stopping the run is basic football. Now it's not always easy to stop a powerful ground game. Student body right at uscsuck was nearly impossible to stop for decades. But 19 straight runs to close out the game? Up 31-10 with 20 minutes left and you let your one dimensional opponent beat you? WHY? I really am looking forward to the Forums comments today.

 

DL and TL the scheme was on you. The lack of adjustments, well that's on you also. If the players failed to execute in game 12 then thats also on the coaches. I have been very critical of the linebackers disappearing act in the 4th quarter against Beavus. I was wrong. The scheme may have set them up to fail.

 

Dazed I am concerned and ask myself do DL and TL need 5 first round draft picks on the field to win big games? Well that is not going to happen in Eugene. It will take consistent top 5 recruiting classes,  key portal acquisitions and annual CFP appearances to accomplish. As well ad a Natty or 2........

 

I am not down on DL or TL, just concerned. The Duck D let the huskies (a program who has not been releavant on the national scene since KW pick 6) and the Beavers (who have never been nationally relevant) keep us from the CFP/RB.

 

If you can't make in game adjustments or develope your players (12 games into the season) then how do you expect to beat Georgia, Bama, Michigan or tOSU?

We already had a taste of what that looks like against the Dawgs!

 

I am looking forward to next season. That will tell us alot about how much DL and TL learned from the 2022 season. GO DUCKS........

[Smith72]

DNC said, "What if Lanning and Lupoi made no adjustments because all we have installed is the base 4-2-5 scheme? What if they felt the players couldn’t switch from our scheme built for defending the spread offenses of today?" I can agree with this statement.

 

Considering how bad the defense looked in the Georgia game - wide open receivers, and huge yards after catch - the weak Duck defenders were exposed.

 

Considering three previous Defensive Coordinators and schemes I can imagine the teaching difficulty Lanning and Lupoi were met with.  All previous Defensive Coordinators shared common 3rd and long failures.

 

Some fans and coaches think "If I have better athletes then our team will roll over our opponent."  Playing fundamental football is still important.  Low man wins the block.  Tackle the legs not the shoulders.

 

Asking a D lineman to read two gaps makes him slow and stationary.  Doing the same to linebackers makes him passive.  I saw too much zone coverage with defenders guarding grass.  Looking forward to seeing improvements in 2023.

 

Thank you DazeNConfused for your great insights!

[12Duck72]

I've been debating about responding to these articles because they just seem like a rehash to me. I know some folks are having a hard time moving on but the past is the past. It sucks but what happened happened. 

 

The defense comes down to one thing for me. Square pegs and round holes. Anyone who thought that the D would be "elite" this year on the level of Georgia or anyone else was setting themselves up to be let down. No way that was going to happen that fast. This defense has been terrible for years. Dazed brought up Brady Hoke, dang man I totally forgot about that guy! I would submit that Oregon hasn't had a decent D since Chip and Coach Allioti were here.

 

The Ducks to me have been too focused on recruiting stars than finding the right guys to fit their scheme. Doesn't matter what you run, if you don't have a D line, your LB's are overrated and you have folks in your secondary in the wrong position not much you can do consistently. That's on the program and recruiting. 

 

As for the Beav game? Anyone who has watched sports for 5 minutes knows what happened. The Ducks quit. They got up 31-10, figured the game was over and got punched in the mouth. That's not the first team that's happened to, it won't be the last and it's totally on the coaches.

 

I've said it before but DL has coached this team for only 12 games. Give the guy some time to get his system in place. If we are still having this convo the next couple of years than I can see the criticism. But on the hot seat now? No way. I get being an armchair QB is part of being a fan, we all do it, but these coaches have more knowledge about the game than all of us put together and you know, actually coach the team and are around the players. 

 

I was reading Canzano's article about Coach Leach. He said he told him one time that being a head coach is like being President. It's a tough job to get and everybody thinks they can do it better than you. So true.

[DazeNconfused]

I want to hone in on the two-gap tech - it's a read and react defense. Lanning had 3 first round draft picks on he defensive line last year. They were block beaters. 

 

His nose tackle was Jordan Davis a 340lb beast who went #13. Jordan could engage the center straight up, read the flow of the play and then  shed the center and take his gap on the play side. He wasn't getting drove off the ball and he was beating blocks. Same with Devonte Wyatt the other DT and #28 pick and the edge Travon Walker the #1 pick. Dudes are all block beaters. 

 

The OSU offensive line wouldn't be winning blocks and driving those dudes off the ball. Plus Lanning had a LB who went #22 so he had 4 first round picks in his front seven.

 

Why the two gap? Simple answer is.. The two gap is part of our nickel base defense that is a 4-2-5. 

It takes big DL guys who dig in and stand ground while you make your read to stop a good running team like OSU or UCLA. The Bruins ran for right around 200 yards on us. 

 

The Ducks run game did OK in the 4-2-5 for much of the year - but it didn't work against OSU.

 

In short after the two picks and going up 31-10 we ran a nickel base defense against a running team while the last 19 plays they had were runs for a 159 yards. 

 

In our 4-2-5 base defense when we slant the defensive line they get into the gap at the snap - like we saw Casey Rogers doing a few times for big stops on 3rd or 4th down against Utah. In other words when we slanted in the Utah game we weren't playing a read and react two gap - Rogers was getting into one gap and creating chaos. 

 

We didn't see lots of slanting against OSU in our base 4-2-5 or LB blitzes - we saw lots of read and react play and Ducks getting drove off the ball. 

 

Against a good running team was saw Lanning didn't have the dudes upfront that could two-gap and win. We also didn't see any adjustment  with more slants, run blitzes or going to a 4-3 with a one-gap Tech. 

 

The sad part is we saw against a good Utah team that our scheme mattered for our players. 

[Haywarduck]

Agree not adjusting to almost certain running attack is something to ponder and to be critical of.

 

I keep coming back to the extremely poor passing defense. If we had changed the defense and weakened the passing D, maybe we would be being critical of allowing an extremely poor passing attack able to successfully pass the ball? What if we had lost because we couldn't stop the pass, which was our history.

 

I think it comes down to the real achilles heal of our defense. We had a first round DB, but the backfield was a liability. Why was our pass defense so poor, and what can be done to create a functional passing defense?

 

Was Dorlus over rated, and what can be done to upgrade the defense? He was suppose to be our alpha dog, dominate defender, but was he ever, can he be next year?

 

What are the critical moves, coaching and player upgrades to create a functional defense. Putting first rounders at D-line and LB would be the simple ask, but not probable.  What was wrong with our backfield? Did it come down to you are only as good as your weakest link?

[John Charles]

On 12/13/2022 at 6:18 AM, 12Duck72 said:

The Ducks quit. They got up 31-10, figured the game was over and got punched in the mouth.

Sometimes the most obvious observation is also the most accurate. Team culture has to evolve.

[Just Ducky]

 Yes my wife ( beaver fan ) and I watched the fourth qtr of the Civil War game and there were many problems with the D. The most glaring was how our linebackers were playing on their heels instead of attacking the run gaps giving up chunks of yardage along with horrible tackling, bad combination.

 

 Between that, poor play calling, special teams disasters, inability to pick up that critical 4th down, and Bo missing a wide open  Fergy for a potential scoring play by throwing it short. It was clear that the Ducks were about to lose. 

 

 Hard to pick one reason they lost the game when there was many reasons.

[Drake]

Good article.
 

Errors on offense, special teams, and defense lost this game. Kind of a total team effort for this one. I agree that the team thought the game was in the bag, and then it wasn’t.
 

The defense certainly contributed to the loss, but I have a tough time pinning this solely on them. The assessment of Dan Lanning regarding his coaching staff matters, but he should not throw any coordinator under the bus publicly. 

Tough loss for the team, coaches, and fans. Time will tell if Dan Lanning learns a valuable lesson and continues to be a rising star as our head coach. 

[Annie]

I wish I could remember to bookmark, because I so often think I remember something, but maybe I don't. In this case, I thought at the beginning of the season a concern was that the defense was not going to be particularly good.

 

Also, in the 2021 season, Georgia lost to Alabama 24-41, but then beat the Tide in the CFP Championship 33-18, so presumably DL learned something, made changes between those two games.

 

Keeping my fingers crossed that DL and some new players will produce a much-improved defense next year.

[GangGreen2]

On 12/13/2022 at 5:43 AM, Smith72 said:

DNC said, "What if Lanning and Lupoi made no adjustments because all we have installed is the base 4-2-5 scheme? What if they felt the players couldn’t switch from our scheme built for defending the spread offenses of today?" I can agree with this statement.

 

Considering how bad the defense looked in the Georgia game - wide open receivers, and huge yards after catch - the weak Duck defenders were exposed.

 

Considering three previous Defensive Coordinators and schemes I can imagine the teaching difficulty Lanning and Lupoi were met with.  All previous Defensive Coordinators shared common 3rd and long failures.

 

Some fans and coaches think "If I have better athletes then our team will roll over our opponent."  Playing fundamental football is still important.  Low man wins the block.  Tackle the legs not the shoulders.

 

Asking a D lineman to read two gaps makes him slow and stationary.  Doing the same to linebackers makes him passive.  I saw too much zone coverage with defenders guarding grass.  Looking forward to seeing improvements in 2023.

 

Thank you DazeNConfused for your great insights!

Dazed makes some great points, and I have to agree with you also, Smith72.  The "too much zone coverage with defenders guarding grass" . . . that summed up the Oregon D during 75% of the UW game . . . looked like the Ducks had 7 statues out there while Penix threw to open receivers all night.

 

The failure to adjust the D in the second half of the OSU game . . . that's on the coaches.  When you have evidence that the other team is one-dimensional, and you continue to run your base defense, which is essentially nickel, and not be aggressive with your front 7, attacking the gaps . . . it means the opposing coach has out-coached you; Jonathan Smith basically dared Lanning and Lupoi to change their base defensive strategy . . . and they said "no thank you".   So that was OSU calling "checkmate!". . . 

[Haywarduck]

On 12/13/2022 at 12:32 PM, cartm25 said:

 

Hopefully Lanning can get this turned around once he gets his guys, but I personally feel there are deeper issues since the Duck defense didn't even improve this year; it may have regressed.

Went from 75th to 77th, statistically not significant. 

 

I think our defense can be best understood by our 2nd highest rated recruit ever, in the history of the program being a no show. Marios guys didn't always play to their potential.

 

Charles had a great article on the Georgia way of breaking down elite recruits. When you get on campus the fun, accolades are over. I am not sure that type of culture was ever built, and that takes time.

 

Seeing Flowe on the bench late into the season, and then transferring out indicates to me, it has begun. 

 

Also leads me to believe if Moore falls for the UCLA story, we don't want him anyway. We need grinders, again!

Edited December 13, 2022 by Haywarduck

[12Duck72]

On 12/13/2022 at 12:32 PM, cartm25 said:

I hope you're right about the "square pegs in round holes" comment.

 

My concern is--and I still find it hard to believe--that a defensive specialist with a, supposedly, superior scheme couldn't take a quality collection of talent (mostly 4-5 stars) and AT LEAST improve the defense.

 

I did not expect an "elite" or "GA-like" defense in year one, but I was hoping for the minimum . . . improvement.

 

Hopefully Lanning can get this turned around once he gets his guys, but I personally feel there are deeper issues since the Duck defense didn't even improve this year; it may have regressed.

Great points cartm25. I agree with you about hoping to see minimum improvement from this group. That was my biggest disappointment this year. I'm hopeful that what we saw in the Utah game and 3 quarters of the Civil War is a glimpse of the future. Looked like DL was more involved and is working on some of those issues you mentioned.

 

But I can't lay this on the new staff completely. This defense has been BAD for years now. Luckily the Ducks have an offense that covers it up much off the time until you get into a game against an equal or better opponent then they get exposed. To me, that's recruiting the right people to your scheme and no worrying about what Rivals or 247 thinks. Look at what Utah and Oregon State are doing with so called 3 stars. How many times the last few years have we watched the Ducks get teams into 3rd and long only to give up a first down? How many times, especially in November, have we watched when the Ducks needed a stop that they can't get off the field, or there's a stupid penalty, or a blown coverage and they end up losing? How many career games have we witnessed from opposing QB's and RB's. I could go on and on.

 

I'm hopeful DL can turn the culture around as well. I think he will. Is Lupoi the right guy? I dunno. If he's not, then there has to be someone out there who can figure it out. I just think after 12 games that they deserve some patience. Hell, we put up with Mario for a lot longer.

[Log Haulin]

I don't fault Lanning and Lupoi's game time decisions on making (or not) adjustments. At the half Ducks were up 14-10 and expanded the lead to 31-17 after three quarters.

 

What they were doing was working. But yes, the 4th quarter happened. Momentum shifted quickly. Oregon spotting Beavus on the 2 yard line due to a mishandled snap happened.

 

I don't think, if I were HC, I would compleatly change what I was doing defensively. Things unraveled so fast. With less than 20 minutes to play, Ducks were up 31-10 if I remember right.

 

There are a lot of areas we can point the finger. Coaching should be at the top of the list. College football is a coaches game. Lanning took ownership, we will see if he has the chops to fix it.

 

Dazed makes some great points, his analysis on scheme and in-game adjustments is always super insightful. I am a much smarter football fan because of it.

 

With every new coaching hire across the country, the general consensus is it will take him 3 years to get his system in place. I will be looking for marked improvement going into next season.

 

Even small improvements defensively and the Ducks are in the CFP. A step or two more and possibly national champs. 

 

Everybody likes to beat Oregon. Ducks get everyones best. Like Beavus player said after the game "felt like winning the SuperBowl ". 

[AnotherOD]

I think heading into the season there was the general idea that Georgia had "found something out" on defense and a slice of that was on its way to Oregon?

 

I don't watch a lot of football outside of the Pac-12, at least not closely, so I didn't know much about Georgia other than they were good on defense.

 

The question I'm left to ponder is whether Georgia actually was onto something, or if they just had so many good and well developed players they took a defense that is very hard to successful play in college football and made it look good and easy?

 

Most teams can't play it because it requires a monster front that can totally disrupt offenses up front and allowed for ample bodies to still play coverage.

 

Might it be both the "best" defense you can run with 11 elite defensive guys yet a really hard to pull off defense with anyone else? There is quite a lot of "not so good" defense being ran in college football today (and it seems like a bunch of "2-4-5/soft zone" based schemes out there at the same time).

 

Also agree to the point there was a defensive adjustment to be made in the 4th quarter of the OSU game and I remember posting in late night hours after game, the only real explanation I could think of that made much sense was there was no other scheme the coaching staff felt comfortable calling. There were adjustments, but those adjustment just weren't part of the defense Oregon ever practiced or played significantly. 

 

No true 3-4, no safeties in the box, etc., nada. I have been meaning to rewatch the 4th quarter but I haven't been able to bring myself to, but it did finally seem the Duck safeties were creeping up more late in the game and I think they looked pretty lost in trying to do so (or a better way to say it might be -- not prepared to do so in a meaningful and successful manner). Got to get that rewatch in at some point, the sting still feels a bit too fresh so far.

 

 

[Duckdude]

Great questions, Dazed!  Great analysis, too.  Hopefully, Lanning is learning what was done wrong on defense v. OSU(AND,….UW, WSU, UCLA….).   If that’s the case, though……and I hope it is……..it’s kinda sad he has to learn on the job….OUR job……while we incur unnecessary losses because of it.   Welllll…..the best we can hope for is: it all pays off, with long-term high football success in the very near future.

 

BUT…….in the meantime: UW and OSU, were lost only due to unnecessary defensive incompetence.   And….WSU was only won because the masters of “Cougin’ it”, out-Couged us.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Duckdude

[DazeNconfused]

Lots of great posts on this thread, that have my thinking cap on the points made... 

 

The third part of this year end defensive recap is tomorrow, I hope you all read it and keep sharing comments.

 

I'll close this post with saying... I often like feedback to confirm a thought I have or to give me a counter point to my thoughts... I remember calling Charles to talk about the 4-0-4 front we were running and the two-gap as I was writing this season recap. 

 

I can say I would include some points that have been posted in this thread if I was writing the articles over. There is much to consider about the Ducks defense this year, many questions linger, and I know I don't have the answers to those questions. 

 

 

 

 

[Dave23]

On 12/13/2022 at 9:52 AM, Haywarduck said:

Did it come down to you are only as good as your weakest link?

Seams the LBs we're dragged into passes coverage way too many times to make up for DBs lack of ability. Not that the D Line helped by getting pressure on the QB making the LBs unable to plug the holes for the run. Classic Chicken or the egg.