Jemangi No. 1 Share Posted March 2, 2023 I am happy to see our women defeat Washington today and hope they win the tournament. But, my goodness, what has taken place in the last few years? We have gone from one of 5 best teams in the country to a mid grade pac 12 team with one player scoring 12 of our 20 baskets today. Why did so many leave? I have no answers, just questions myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDuck No. 2 Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) I've been saying this for a while, the coach is a great recruiter but I don't think his X and O strategies are quite that great. He pulled in a phenomenal class that year and Sabrina... I don't think people realized just HOW good she was and with Ruthie who wasn't even rated that high turned, out to be phenomenal and then you add Satou...and Erin Boley...too much for opposing defenses. He brings in another insane #1 class, and a year later TeHe is the only one left. The kids like him, great guy, phenomenal recruiter. Can't coach? Edited March 2, 2023 by JDuck 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDuck No. 3 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Sabrina leaving created a gigantic leadership void. Add in all the covid restrictions on team functions and bonding and you see the results. Team culture is hard to build, easy to lose. Men's hoops is in sort of the same mess the past couple years and I don't think Altman has forgotten how to coach. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastBayDuckDad Moderator No. 4 Share Posted March 2, 2023 I think Graves can coach. Just look at the Gonzaga teams he had before coming to Oregon. He does seem to be more hands off during the games and has his assistants do more. The best Graves coached teams have had a strong leader-floor general. None was better than Sabrina. For any program. There is a reason so many NBA greats thought she was special. She could run the floor, elevate all the players around her and wouldn't let anyone give up or let down. TPP has never quite brought her game to that level. Rogers has had flashes of it, but the supporting cast hasn't elevated consistently as shooting woes have plagued the Ducks two years running. Leadership by committee seems to be an issue for Graves coached teams. The good players that have left the program may indicate some internal issues, but Graves continues to brings in great classes. While we'll never see another Sabrina, I believe there will be great teams in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Hilarius Moderator No. 5 Share Posted March 2, 2023 It’s obvious—Graves is the problem. I have personal experience w male coaches coaching female basketball, and they are the worst. My HS bball coach was voted coach of the year bc his team if FIVE freshmen won the Or state championship. He proceeded to suck for 3 years bc he couldn’t coach and was a physically and verbally abusive a-hole. In bball, one good leader can absolutely change the complexion of a team. Sabrina was that leader. Graves needs to go. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 6 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Sabrina is perhaps the most selfless player in the history of the sport. And I know some of you will be like ... Wait what? Didn't she set the record for triple doubles and carry the team on her shoulders sometimes? Yes... And that's what made her selfless. It was always about the team with her and she knew the strengths of her team and everyone's roles. Sometimes she needed to carry the team and put up a big night in scoring to win the game. Other games she just needed to take the shots that were open to her and get the ball to other players and let them score. She was the leader of a very special team. That chemistry isn't easy to recreate but it is up to the coaching staff to build some sort of team cohesion and they have failed to really do so. What is this team's identity? Sabrina's team was all about moving the ball around and letting play makers make plays. And then it was followed up with a stifling defense that punished opponents for their mistakes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Waddler Moderator No. 7 Share Posted March 2, 2023 After you’ve rocketed to the very top on the coat tails of a once-in-a-life-time player, it’s almost impossible to go anywhere but down once that star is gone. Sabrina (and supporting cast) was both the best thing and the worst thing to ever happen to Kelly Graves. Her unapproachable skill set delivered not only wins, but immediate legitimacy and credibility to a pretty successful lower division coach’s move into the big time, leaving him with an afterglow of someone who could do no wrong. Talk about the perfect recipe for a train wreck. I think Kelly is still the coach we want, and one of the best in our league. But, success can sometimes breed failure when nothing is learned from the fortunate circumstances and luck that engendered that beginning. Sabrina’s success dug a deep hole for Kelly to crawl out from, and he’s been playing catch-up ever since. Trying to rekindle that magic while at the same time fighting off 11 other teams who want nothing more than to reduce you to ashes has been the steep challenge facing him. He may never find that recruiting formula again; but, then again he might. All I know is I like the guy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRunningDuck No. 8 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Did all his long time assistants need to be replaced? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudslide No. 9 Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) You know the old saying..."It's not about the X's and O's, it's about the Jimmies and Joes". I think Coach Graves and his staff are doing just fine. He hasn't forgotten how to coach. So what is the problem? Mostly it's as has been stated...there is only one Sabrina! Also, this year's team also suffers from multiple injuries to key players AND poor shooting. Here is a look at this season vs. the 2019-20 season....Sabrina's last year. FG% .429 vs. .509 3PT% .358 vs. .395 FT% .718 vs. .773 Assist/Turnover Ratio 1.3 vs. 1.9 Reb/Game 39.7 vs. 41.6 This year's team is full of life and good players. They just aren't as talented as the ladies of the past super teams. We can be a bit spoiled by OBD past successes, can't we?! Good shooting can fix all that ails. A couple more Rogers would be nice. Consistency is the mark of the professional. Edited March 2, 2023 by Mudslide 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan2785 No. 10 Share Posted March 2, 2023 So Graves can only win if he has a generational talent like Sabrina? That even more means that he can't coach Xs and Os! He is so passive during games, never gets into players, never seems to demand greatness, just sort of sits there and claps his hands sometimes. He has players that are good enough to win games, but he is slow to adjust game plans, doesn't seem to know how to counter lineups or schemes, he relies a lot on good outside shooting. I give a lot more leeway to Altman since he has proved at Oregon he can win with completely different teams, he has also won using different sorts of lineups. Graves' teams kind of reminds me of Ernie Kent's teams, usually had good recruits but didn't always get the most out of them unless he had fantastic floor leaders. You of course need good court leaders, but for both Ernie and Graves it seems like they need player of the year candidates at lead guard. I wouldn't fire him, but next year has to be a year where they begin to reestablish itself as a top 3 team in the league. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudslide No. 11 Share Posted March 2, 2023 On 3/2/2023 at 9:26 AM, spartan2785 said: So Graves can only win if he has a generational talent like Sabrina? That even more means that he can't coach Xs and Os! He is so passive during games, never gets into players, never seems to demand greatness, just sort of sits there and claps his hands sometimes. He has players that are good enough to win games, but he is slow to adjust game plans, doesn't seem to know how to counter lineups or schemes, he relies a lot on good outside shooting. I give a lot more leeway to Altman since he has proved at Oregon he can win with completely different teams, he has also won using different sorts of lineups. Graves' teams kind of reminds me of Ernie Kent's teams, usually had good recruits but didn't always get the most out of them unless he had fantastic floor leaders. You of course need good court leaders, but for both Ernie and Graves it seems like they need player of the year candidates at lead guard. I wouldn't fire him, but next year has to be a year where they begin to reestablish itself as a top 3 team in the league. So...engaging with the team more will make them better shooters? Last night all the players NOT named Paopao or Rogers shot 3 for 21. That's a whopping 14%. The problem isn't lineup or offensive schemes. How would you suggest Graves should proceed? And remember, the team has been rife with injuries this year...seriously handicapping them in practice and in games. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westsalemduck No. 12 Share Posted March 5, 2023 Marc Campbell is 22-7 at Sac State 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cacker Guy No. 13 Share Posted March 6, 2023 On 3/5/2023 at 8:56 AM, Westsalemduck said: Marc Campbell is 22-7 at Sac State The number and quality of players who have left the program within the past two years -- since Campbell left -- is alarming. They are all starters, mostly on good teams, and having productive years: Taylor Mikesell (#14 tOSU) -- 17.1 points / 3.1 rebounds / 2.5 assists per game Jaz Shelley (Nebraska) – 14.6 / 4.8 / 6.1 Angela Dugalic (#19 UCLA) – knee injury Sydney Parrish (#2 Indiana) – 12.1 / 5.4 / 1.9 Maddie Scherr (Kentucky) -- 11.6 / 5.1 / 4.3 Kylee Watson (#10 Notre Dame) – 6.7 / 4.3 / 0.9 That’s a total of 62.1 ppg / 22.7 rpg / 15.7 apg Why did they leave? Maybe they wanted to be closer to home. Or whatever. Freshman Jenna Isai left early in the season this year. I have always like Coach Graves, but this is alarming to me. Does anyone know why they left? Is there a culture issue? Coaching issue? Didn't play enough? I am very curious what is going on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
