HDuck No. 1 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Quite a bit of "chatter" about this today, some jokes, some serious... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 2 Share Posted June 16, 2023 A bit like the Pac-10 presidents agreeing to a great-of-rights pledge subject to a new media deal bringing in enough $. Once before SDSU gave notice that it was leaving for the Big East and scurried back to the MW. Why not give notice and potentially save $17M and ask forgiveness if a move to the Pac or B12 doesn't work out? The MW is not going to pass on the San Diego market. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 3 Share Posted June 16, 2023 A paywall article today by Canzano was suggesting SDST to do this, since--the Mountain West would certainly take them back if things did not work out. What was interesting is how the loss of the LA market was 5.7 million households, but the SMU (Dallas/Ft. Worth) and San Diego markets would fill in 4.1 million of that divot, which really helps. The end result would be about a million more households than the Big-12, hence the confidence that the new Pac-12 media contract can meet or exceed the Big-12 contract. Media Market Numbers: Big-12: 15.1 million after all are on-board. Pac-12: 16.5 million after SDST and SMU join us. B1G: 33.9 million after the LA schools join them 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tandaian No. 4 Share Posted June 16, 2023 SDSU has to give 1 years notice to withdraw from the conference. Um, the Pac 12 doesn't "need" them for 2024, so just have them come over in 2025. I know everyone would like everything to happen right way, but pushing it out a year wouldn't be terrible. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 5 Share Posted June 16, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 2:13 PM, Tandaian said: SDSU has to give 1 years notice to withdraw from the conference. Um, the Pac 12 doesn't "need" them for 2024, so just have them come over in 2025. I know everyone would like everything to happen right way, but pushing it out a year wouldn't be terrible. It is lined up right now so that SDSU would join the Pac for 2024. 2024 the Pac will lose the LA schools and we should ideally fill that void with SDSU and SMU at that time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 6 Share Posted June 16, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 1:43 PM, HDuck said: Quite a bit of "chatter" about this today, some jokes, some serious... and some Duck fans annoying angry that this is happening because some see the death of the Pac-12 as something to celebrate because they think we get an automatic invite to the B1G. We would probably go to the B1G at some point if the Pac dies but some fans on other boards are driving me crazy with this "anything to kill the Pac faster" routine. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaider No. 7 Share Posted June 16, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 3:58 PM, Charles Fischer said: A paywall article today by Canzano was suggesting SDST to do this, since--the Mountain West would certainly take them back if things did not work out. What was interesting is how the loss of the LA market was 5.7 million households, but the SMU (Dallas/Ft. Worth) and San Diego markets would fill in 4.1 million of that divot, which really helps. The end result would be about a million more households than the Big-12, hence the confidence that the new Pac-12 media contract can meet or exceed the Big-12 contract. Media Market Numbers: Big-12: 15.1 million after all are on-board. Pac-12: 16.5 million after SDST and SMU join us. B1G: 33.9 after the LA schools join them Although I think the PAC would boost the SMU brand and it would gain market share it really doesn't carry the DFW market. Having lived there I'd say the pecking order is probably UT, TTU, A&M, TCU, OU, Baylor, SMU, Oklahoma St. I do however think it would be a good thing for teams like Oregon to be able to tell recruits in Texas that they will play a game there most years. But it won't be a big boost for TV viewership. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDuck Author No. 8 Share Posted June 16, 2023 An interesting color coded map of "fan interest" in NorthTexas/Dallas area when you open the link. One of the maps you can point your mouse at the area to determine the team. i.e. blue is SMU, red is Tex Tech, purple is TCU, orange is UT, etc. Unfortunately, in cases like this, the No. 2 in each geographic area is also relevant, but not shown. Which College Football Team Does North Texas Root for? WWW.NBCDFW.COM As college football season continues, Vivid Seats is looking at fandom across North Texas based on ticket sales. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundedknees No. 9 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) On 6/16/2023 at 1:58 PM, Charles Fischer said: A paywall article today by Canzano was suggesting SDST to do this, since--the Mountain West would certainly take them back if things did not work out. What was interesting is how the loss of the LA market was 5.7 million households, but the SMU (Dallas/Ft. Worth) and San Diego markets would fill in 4.1 million of that divot, which really helps. The end result would be about a million more households than the Big-12, hence the confidence that the new Pac-12 media contract can meet or exceed the Big-12 contract. Media Market Numbers: Big-12: 15.1 million after all are on-board. Pac-12: 16.5 million after SDST and SMU join us. B1G: 33.9 million after the LA schools join them Sad part is, had the PAC had the fortitude and foresight to expand several seasons ago when the opportunity presented itself, the numbers could easily have matched what the B1G currently has available, assuming that USC and UCLA stayed in the fold, and SDSU/SMU, or some similar market schools had joined. what a cluster. Edited June 16, 2023 by woundedknees 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 10 Share Posted June 16, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 5:45 PM, David Marsh said: and some Duck fans annoying angry that this is happening because some see the death of the Pac-12 as something to celebrate because they think we get an automatic invite to the B1G. We would probably go to the B1G at some point if the Pac dies but some fans on other boards are driving me crazy with this "anything to kill the Pac faster" routine. And any offer has to be bankrolled by FOX and/or junior partners CBS and NBC. And any offer will not be for a full revenue share. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 11 Share Posted June 16, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 7:01 PM, WoadBlue said: The Pac needs a school located in southern CA. But what does SMU give? In its own TV market, it be a #6 CFB draw behind Texas, A&M, OU, Arkansas, and TCU. Oklahoma St and TTU also both have a large a drawing power in DFW as SMU. You no longer are required to have 12 or more members to have a CCG. Good take. I think whether or not SMU gets an invite comes down to the Pac-10 media partners. If they believe it will be beneficial it will happen. Otherwise, no. Media controls expansion today far more than does a given conference. Why I think the B12 making noise about the 4 Corners schools is just that especially when adding UConn and/or Gonzaga would mean the 12 members agreeing to take a lesser share. An interesting question that I hope Oregon is given to answer would be whether $30M to $40M in media revenue in the Pac-10 beats $50M in the B1G. On paper for both football and basketball, it would appear to be far easier to make the playoff in CFB and CBB in the perhaps 12-member Pac than in a 16-team B1G. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2002duck No. 12 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 2:45 PM, David Marsh said: "anything to kill the Pac faster" I definitely do not want the Pac killed until the build up to the next B1G contract, but when that time comes all I'd want is for Oregon to be accepted into the B1G. I won't care about the rest of the Pac. "Simply business," like Michael Corleone said. I do not harbor any ill will towards FOX, the B1G, UCLA, nor even USC for the LA exodus. Good for them. If Oregon got the invite I'd be totally fine with a midnight exit and a dear John letter. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Ducky No. 13 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Oregon will loose a lot of money in travel expenses if it jumps and more than likely will never see the playoffs in the two major sports. Lots of student athletes will be forced to leave the school in many other sports. Don’t like college sports turned into professional sports and that is not a good look. Won’t work for the northwest schools that’s for sure IMO. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 14 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 4:01 PM, WoadBlue said: But what does SMU give? In its own TV market, it be a #6 CFB draw behind Texas, A&M, OU, Arkansas, and TCU. Oklahoma St and TTU also both have a large a drawing power in DFW as SMU. Precieved value. I don't entirely get how they assign all this value besides location = geographic viewership... Which isn't wrong but it's lacking in neuance. I mean part of the reason why Oregon isn't seen as valuable a program is because the state of Oregon isn't that big. But we all know Oregon's fan base outstipps it's geographic confines. Also... UCLA can't fill the rose bowl... That stadium is empty on a weekly basis. But UCLA is located in LA so they represent the whole market. Nevermind the fact that southern California has two NFL teams that grab the football fans. And sure USC has a decent fan base and makes more sense. SDSU also feels like a bit of a stretch to claim the San Diego market because of the previously mentioned NFL teams. I do feel that SDSU will grow their fan base pretty rapidly when they join the PAC. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyToBeADuck No. 15 Share Posted June 17, 2023 This great Forum certainly has many varied opinions on PAC expansion. Different viewpoints and opinions make for good discussions. At this point one guess is as good as another. Excited for SDSU announcing their intent to leave the MWC. They have taken the steps and invested the money to position themselves to move to a P-5 Conference. I hope they land in the PAC. Presense and perception matter. 4 & 5 star athletes will drive down from the LA Basin to be on the sidelines when the Ducks play SDSU. Unfortuneately that will not happen every year.... AU, ASU and Utah made the jump to P5 and SDSU can too. Their football brand will grow and they will get their share of SoCal stars. Good things will happen for the PAC and SDSU. A trip to San Diego in October/November will be a treat for Duck fans as we fill the Snapdragon. As for SMU.....not much chatter about SMU after GK's visit. So who knows that status...... How a school is perceived today is not how they will be perceived as a PAC Member. If SMU is 7-3 and Oregon, Utah or UW come to town, DFW will be rocking and Texas football fans will watch. They will... Oregon draws the 8 to 10 year old fans who dream of playing for the Ducks. Some of those youngsters will fall in love with SMU, too..... Honestly, SMU has no chance or very slim, at a CFP invite in their present situation. Their die hard fans support them. In the PAC, they can build their program with $30 million annually. Much more than they receive now. They have a shot at a CFP appearance. Texas fans will watch and support SMU if that happens. Especially when UT and TA&M are not in the CFP. Georgia, Bama and LSU are not going to roll over for UT or OU. The biggest plus with SMU is it adds TV inventory in the central time zone. The PAC needs inventory to sell to their Media partners. 6 teams in the PST and 4 in the MST is not enough inventory. I know we all love our Ducks but the PAC does not have a lot of glamour games to broadcast. Fresh matchups and a PAC broadcast at 2 central, noon pacific could be appealing. SMU at OSU at 5 pst and 7 cst wont have a lot of Texas game competition. Texans will watch. None of the PAC or BIG 12 games will be able to compete against a 5 pm pacific, 8 pm eastern if tOSU is playing usc. Or Bama vs Texas. Those games are big time. The PAC would need to schedule with vision and smarts. Dont go head to head. Football is regional so make the most of those matchups. Sometime before week zero in 2024 the PAC will have a media package in place and maybe a few new teams to showcase. But one thing is certain, the Ducks will be fielding back to back top 10 recruiting classes and NFL ready portal transfers. The kind of team that can go deep in the CFP and bring home $60 million plus in playoff money....... And hopefully a Natty....... 1 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDuck Moderator No. 16 Share Posted June 17, 2023 More in-depth story to what all is talking about. San Diego State 'Intends To Resign From Mountain West,' Per Reports Last Stand for San Diego State? SDSU wants it both ways in negotiating an exit from the Mountain West. But the MW might play a little bit of hardball. San Diego State wants it both ways as it is negotiating an exit from the Mountain West MWWIRE.COM San Diego State ‘Intends To Resign From Mountain West,’ Per Reports Aztecs on the move? Contact/Follow @JeremyMauss & @MWCwire Last Stand for San Diego... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Duck72 No. 17 Share Posted June 17, 2023 So let me get this straight. On 13 June they send a letter saying they "intend" to leave the conference. Ok, fine. MW says "cool" and starts the process by first removing their Pres off the board which is what you'd expect them to do. Then they send another letter saying the first wasn't really a resignation but that they're "just exploring all their options " and oh BTW can we please have an extension past 30 June so we don't have to pay the huge fee. This whole mess has gone from a fiasco to the Twilight Zone. No way the MW is agreeing to that. I wouldn't and neither would you. The elephant in the room here folks is no one has seen the media deal. Obviously someone told them a number and a time line and they jumped the gun. And surprise, surprise it didn't pan out. We can talk and debate about verbal agreements and all of that but until there is actual contract in writing all of it is just noise. If the numbers don't add up, schools are going to bolt. Again, where's GK in all of this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Duck72 No. 18 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 2:45 PM, David Marsh said: and some Duck fans annoying angry that this is happening because some see the death of the Pac-12 as something to celebrate No one I know is "celebrating " or would be happy if the conference folded. I haven't seen any posts like that either around social media. Maybe we are looking at different sites. I think most fans like me see the writing on the wall and want what's best for the university. Let's say there is a deal David and they get the "bronze medal". How sustainable is that long term? The Ducks can't always rely on Phil Knight's money. And for the all of the reduced share complaining. 50 million for the next few years until the new media deal compared to the 20 to 30 range I'm hearing is a lot better deal in my book. It obvious to me the powers that be (TV) do not want a west coast conference. They want and will eventually get 2 conferences and college football will look like the NFL. I think all of this sucks. The reason I love college football is because it's NOT the NFL. We've spent almost a year now arguing about media deals than actually talking about football, baseball, etc. Question is how long do you hold onto a dying conference? For a lot of us, you pull the trigger sooner rather than later when the chaos happens. We are not happy or excited about it but that's the situation unfortunately. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyToBeADuck No. 19 Share Posted June 17, 2023 NJ Duck thanks for finding and posting this next update on SDSU and the MWC. Sure appreciate the time and effort you and P Duck put into posting. 12Duck72, you are spot on that the MWC should reject SDSU offer for a 30 day extension. In SDSU's defense, well it doesn't hurt to ask. In response to your question, how long do you hold onto a dying conference? I would ask why do you or any other Forum members feel the PAC is dying? Is it: Just because we lost the LA TV Market or don't have a new media rights deal in place? Or is it something else? Not diagreeing with you just really want to hear that side of the arguement. Its a great discussion point...... IMHO, You know every other conference has survived, to this point, without usc and ucla as members......and the PAC will too. The PAC will send a team to the CFP every year while usc has diminshed their odds and ucla now has no shot at a CFP appearamce. UA, ASU, Colorado, CAL, WSU and OSU's chances to get to yhe PAC Title game greatly improved with usc and ucla departing. Thats a good thing. The BIG12 took the UT/OU loss in stride, took the PAC merger decline in stride and then added 4 new members. They will survive and prosper. They will send a team to the CFP every year while OU and UT diminished their chances. Another question I have in response to for alot of us, you pull the trigger sooner rather than later when the chaos happens..... What chaos is happening and what would pulling the trigger mean? Oregon has not been invited to the BIG presently or in the future. If FOX or the BIG wanted the Ducks they would be moving now. What would you have the Ducks or PAC members do if the trigger was pulled? My opinion is that sticking together, digging in their heels and making solid business decisions is the PAC's best course of action. Their will be a media rights deal because the PAC provides after 6 pm football content. That has value to the networks/streamers because football is profitable. Broadcasting live football games is very profitable. I agree thst 2 conferences and 1 network want all the money and control. The only thing stopping them is they dont have Clemson, UNC, FSU, UNC, UW, Oregon and the kingpin, Notre Dame. Those schools now control the future of college football. Their decisions to chase the money may very well break CF as we now know it. Looking forward to all the answers and comments. Its a great day to be a Duck and I am bery happy about it. Have a great saturday..... 2 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDuck Moderator No. 20 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 9:25 AM, 12Duck72 said: Question is how long do you hold onto a dying conference? For a lot of us, you pull the trigger sooner rather than later when the chaos happens. We are not happy or excited about it but that's the situation unfortunately. I believe most people feel as you do. College sports is headed down a rabbit hole no one likes. The Pac-12 will have a media short term contract done, but I think it can still be debatable whether the Pac-12 will survive or not. After the next BIG Ten contract opens up will they possibly invite Oregon, Washington, Stanford, maybe Cal to join UCLA and USC for a 'West Coast Pod'? According to most write ups, is what they are predicting. But there's no guarantee that will happen. A lot can happen in the next 5 or 6 years. Could adding SDSU and SMU strengthen the Pac-12 down the road? I believe they would. Could possibly adding Tulane and UNLV as well help? from what I have read about these schools and media growth could strengthen the Pac-12 down the road. My biggest concern is will the Pac-12 finally make the best decisions possible for the conference to be successful? From what has happen in the past makes this the most debatable of all. Let's face it, the ACC is in danger down the road as well. The BIG and SEC could pick apart what they desire to have. You are right, Oregon can't or should not rely on Phil Knight's money. Oregon will most likely benefit from him in a trust fund after he no longer is with us. Back in 2009, this was published: In his largest stock move to date, Nike's chairman and co-founder on Wednesday gave 20 million shares of his company's stock, worth about $1.32 billion, to three trusts in his name. Nike disclosed the move in a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. The filing does not say who ultimately will benefit from the trusts. What is interesting is the person overseeing the trusts, according to the filing: Pat Kilkenny, who served as UO's top athletics official when Knight donated $100 million to the department. Knight still owns 65 million shares worth about 4.3 billion, the filing shows. Nike shares closed Wednesday at 66.14 on the New York Stock Exchange, just 29 cents off a 52-week high. The stock has gained 30 percent year-to-date. Can you imagine what it is worth now? Of course we know that his wife and children will benefit the most. But I am sure Oregon will too. Phil Knight places $1.3 billion of Nike stock in trusts WWW.OREGONLIVE.COM Nike's chairman and co-founder gives 20 million shares to three different trusts, likely to pass on to heirs, and names former Oregon Athletic Director Pat Kilkenny as trustee. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 21 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 6:25 AM, 12Duck72 said: Question is how long do you hold onto a dying conference? Not dead yet, and most believe the answer is the length of the new media contract. It will also give Oregon time to build the audience base further via streaming to be an even more attractive candidate for any conference in 5-6 years. If, in that time period we see seasons that many of us are thinking will happen under Dan Lanning--our Playoff Bonus money and brand growth will help the athletic dept. at Oregon that much more. The Oregon Brand is strong, and is going to get stronger. The impatience of Oregon fans who want to "go-now" is understandable, but it is not convincing to the rest of us. 2 1 2 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 22 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 7:32 AM, HappyToBeADuck said: The only thing stopping them is they don't have Clemson, UNC, FSU, UNC, UW, Oregon and the kingpin, Notre Dame. This is a fantastic point that I did not consider, and naturally it comes from a businessman who has years of experience negotiating, understanding leverage, and which party now has power in the current scenario. In 5-6 years? Both of the Super Conferences will want to expand, and at that time Oregon will have lots of good options that this five year period will reveal. The Oregon Brand... 1 2 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDuck Moderator No. 23 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 10:32 AM, HappyToBeADuck said: I agree thst 2 conferences and 1 network want all the money and control. The only thing stopping them is they dont have Clemson, UNC, FSU, UNC, UW, Oregon and the kingpin, Notre Dame. Those schools now control the future of college football. Their decisions to chase the money may very well break CF as we now know it. I agree with Charles. Great point HappyToBeADuck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 24 Share Posted June 17, 2023 San Diego State tells Mountain West to take a hike amid Pac-12 rumors FANSIDED.COM San Diego State has informed the Mountain West that it intends to resign from the conference. As it turns out, conference... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 25 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 11:05 AM, Charles Fischer said: Not dead yet, and most believe the answer is the length of the new media contract. It will also give Oregon time to build the audience base further via streaming to be an even more attractive candidate for any conference in 5-6 years. If, in that time period we see seasons that many of us are thinking will happen under Dan Lanning--our Playoff Bonus money and brand growth will help the athletic dept. at Oregon that much more. The Oregon Brand is strong, and is going to get stronger. The impatience of Oregon fans who want to "go-now" is understandable, but it is not convincing to the rest of us. Great take! Not only is the Pac not dead but I still believe the new media deal will be as good as the B12 deal and in a 12-team conference, assuming SDSU and SMU are added, Oregon has a terrific shot at making the 12-team playoff field year after year. An easier row to hoe than having to finish in the top 2 or 3 in the B1G. Having to travel 2 time zones plus for every B1G away game will take its toll on the LA schools. And SDSU gives the Pac additional CBB cred. As I have oft noted (probably too often) this is the toughest media market for college sports in the last decade. And streaming will be a part of the new deal, as it will be in any conference having ESPN as a media partner including the SEC and also in the B1G where Peacock, with far fewer in-home relations with consumers, will be streaming games from LA and is also streaming the UW at Michigan State game this season. One of the major ways to gain necessary media exposure with the LA schools departing will be for Pac schools to schedule and win big-time OOC games. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 26 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 10:58 AM, NJDuck said: I believe most people feel as you do. College sports is headed down a rabbit hole no one likes. The Pac-12 will have a media short term contract done, but I think it can still be debatable whether the Pac-12 will survive or not. After the next BIG Ten contract opens up will they possibly invite Oregon, Washington, Stanford, maybe Cal to join UCLA and USC for a 'West Coast Pod'? According to most write ups, is what they are predicting. But there's no guarantee that will happen. A lot can happen the in next 5 or 6 years. Could adding SDSU and SMU strengthen the Pac-12 down the road? I believe they would. Could possibly adding Tulane and UNLV as well help? from what I have read about these schools and media strength would strengthen the Pac-12 down the road. My biggest concern is will the Pac-12 finally make the best decisions possible for the conference to be successful? From what has happen in the past makes this the most debatable of all. Let's face it, the ACC is in danger down the road as well. The BIG and SEC could pick apart what they desire to have. You are right, Oregon can't or should not rely on Phil Knight's money. Oregon will most likely benefit from him in a trust fund after he no longer is with us. Back in 2009, this was published: In his largest stock move to date, Nike's chairman and co-founder on Wednesday gave 20 million shares of his company's stock, worth about $1.32 billion, to three trusts in his name. Nike disclosed the move in a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. The filing does not say who ultimately will benefit from the trusts. What is interesting is the person overseeing the trusts, according to the filing: Pat Kilkenny, who served as UO's top athletics official when Knight donated $100 million to the department. Knight still owns 65 million shares worth about 4.3 billion, the filing shows. Nike shares closed Wednesday at 66.14 on the New York Stock Exchange, just 29 cents off a 52-week high. The stock has gained 30 percent year-to-date. Can you imagine what it is worth now? Of course we know that his wife and children will benefit the most. But I am sure Oregon will too. Phil Knight places $1.3 billion of Nike stock in trusts WWW.OREGONLIVE.COM Nike's chairman and co-founder gives 20 million shares to three different trusts, likely to pass on to heirs, and names former Oregon Athletic Director Pat Kilkenny as trustee. Put not your trust in money but rather, put your money in trust. Oliver Wendell Holmes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 27 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 8:57 AM, 12Duck72 said: So let me get this straight. On 13 June they send a letter saying they "intend" to leave the conference. Ok, fine. MW says "cool" and starts the process by first removing their Pres off the board which is what you'd expect them to do. Then they send another letter saying the first wasn't really a resignation but that they're "just exploring all their options " and oh BTW can we please have an extension past 30 June so we don't have to pay the huge fee. This whole mess has gone from a fiasco to the Twilight Zone. No way the MW is agreeing to that. I wouldn't and neither would you. The elephant in the room here folks is no one has seen the media deal. Obviously someone told them a number and a time line and they jumped the gun. And surprise, surprise it didn't pan out. We can talk and debate about verbal agreements and all of that but until there is actual contract in writing all of it is just noise. If the numbers don't add up, schools are going to bolt. Again, where's GK in all of this? SDSU already has a behind-the-scenes invite to the Pac-10. It once gave notice to the MW that it was leaving for the Big East, reversed course, and was welcomed back as would be the case this time around if SDSU decided to stay in the MW. Not to give notice would be a $17M dollar mistake. Giving notice that it will likely be giving notice is the 'gentleman's' approach regarding giving its fellow MW members a heads-up. Something that we rarely see in this day and age of college sports back-stabbing. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 28 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 8:38 AM, NJDuck said: More in-depth story to what all is talking about. San Diego State 'Intends To Resign From Mountain West,' Per Reports Last Stand for San Diego State? SDSU wants it both ways in negotiating an exit from the Mountain West. But the MW might play a little bit of hardball. San Diego State wants it both ways as it is negotiating an exit from the Mountain West MWWIRE.COM San Diego State ‘Intends To Resign From Mountain West,’ Per Reports Aztecs on the move? Contact/Follow @JeremyMauss & @MWCwire Last Stand for San Diego... The MW doesn't have the leverage to play softball let alone hardball. MW is making the savvy business move to protect its own interests. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 29 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 10:45 PM, 2002duck said: I definitely do not want the Pac killed until the build up to the next B1G contract, but when that time comes all I'd want is for Oregon to be accepted into the B1G. I won't care about the rest of the Pac. "Simply business," like Michael Corleone said. I do not harbor any ill will towards FOX, the B1G, UCLA, nor even USC for the LA exodus. Good for them. If Oregon got the invite I'd be totally fine with a midnight exit and a dear John letter. The gripe I have is Kevin Warren lying to GK and ACC commissioner, Jim Phillips. And I also harbor a grudge against USC and Carol Folt for leading the charge not to expand into the Central time zone and wipe out the B12. (Was she already playing footsie with Warren, the B1G, and FOX?) UCLA is going nowhere without SC and SC at the very least could have tried to score a better Pac revenue share before pulling the rug out from under the conference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyToBeADuck No. 30 Share Posted June 17, 2023 JJ, i like your strong stance about better OOC scheduling. Let me up the anti just a bit. Just for the sake of discussion and out the box thinking. Some of this has been discussed on the Forum before. How about a merger with the ACC in scheduling. Each ACC team travels west to play one game against the PAC and each PAC team travels east to play an ACC game. And they count as a conference game. If UW played Clemson, FSU played Oregon, WSU played Miami or OSU played UNC, I believe those matchups would draw more eyeballs than OSU vs AU. Eye balls command top media dollars. Turn the tables on the networks. There is value and strength in numbers. As in all things, there would be naysayers and problems to work out. But the best way to not be at the mercy of Fox, SEC and BIG is to become your own super conference. Keep the ACC and PAC separate so you have 2 CFP qualifiers. Shape your own future or let someone else do it for you. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 31 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 9:05 AM, HappyToBeADuck said: And they count as a conference game. What? As if it is not difficult enough to go undefeated in conference? Your intentions are good, and your logic concerning eyeballs is great, but if it is a conference game....it is a killer to our Playoff chances. If we do this, then why not just combine the conferences? You think Miami vs. Oregon might draw eyeballs? 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Duck72 No. 32 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 7:32 AM, HappyToBeADuck said: NJ Duck thanks for finding and posting this next update on SDSU and the MWC. Sure appreciate the time and effort you and P Duck put into posting. 12Duck72, you are spot on that the MWC should reject SDSU offer for a 30 day extension. In SDSU's defense, well it doesn't hurt to ask. In response to your question, how long do you hold onto a dying conference? I would ask why do you or any other Forum members feel the PAC is dying? Is it: Just because we lost the LA TV Market or don't have a new media rights deal in place? Or is it something else? Not diagreeing with you just really want to hear that side of the arguement. Its a great discussion point...... IMHO, You know every other conference has survived, to this point, without usc and ucla as members......and the PAC will too. The PAC will send a team to the CFP every year while usc has diminshed their odds and ucla now has no shot at a CFP appearamce. UA, ASU, Colorado, CAL, WSU and OSU's chances to get to yhe PAC Title game greatly improved with usc and ucla departing. Thats a good thing. The BIG12 took the UT/OU loss in stride, took the PAC merger decline in stride and then added 4 new members. They will survive and prosper. They will send a team to the CFP every year while OU and UT diminished their chances. Another question I have in response to for alot of us, you pull the trigger sooner rather than later when the chaos happens..... What chaos is happening and what would pulling the trigger mean? Oregon has not been invited to the BIG presently or in the future. If FOX or the BIG wanted the Ducks they would be moving now. What would you have the Ducks or PAC members do if the trigger was pulled? My opinion is that sticking together, digging in their heels and making solid business decisions is the PAC's best course of action. Their will be a media rights deal because the PAC provides after 6 pm football content. That has value to the networks/streamers because football is profitable. Broadcasting live football games is very profitable. I agree thst 2 conferences and 1 network want all the money and control. The only thing stopping them is they dont have Clemson, UNC, FSU, UNC, UW, Oregon and the kingpin, Notre Dame. Those schools now control the future of college football. Their decisions to chase the money may very well break CF as we now know it. Looking forward to all the answers and comments. Its a great day to be a Duck and I am bery happy about it. Have a great saturday..... Let me see if I can answer your questions as briefly as possible which is hard for me sometimes lol. This conference has been falling behind for years. Remember there is a very good reason why LA schools bolted. You can call them traitors all you want but it was a sound financial decision. Will all the travel offset that? Maybe we will see. The money gap between the SEC, BIG10 and everyone else is going to increase as the years go by. I admire those of you who feel that PAC should just hold on, hope for the best, expand with schools that 2 years ago no one wanted and maybe by the next contract this will work out better. I'm not that optimistic fellow Duck fans. There is already going an exposure issue with TV and if this is an all streaming deal that's not going to be any better either. And add on top of that the incompetence of the leadership that this conference has suffered through the years and that's what I'm talking about. The chaos I'm referring to is on multiple fronts. What if Colorado and Arizona go now? What happens if ND finally grows a pair and joins a conference? Eventually at some point the ACC is going to join this mess. Then it's every man for himself. Look I get I'm in the minority around here which is fine. I can take the heat. I guess I'm just amazed at the blind loyalty to this conference from some of you. I admit I don't get it. I don't care what happens to the other 9 schools and if joining the MW meant the Ducks had a seat at the big table so be it. Sorry Happy, I was trying to be brief. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 33 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 12:05 PM, HappyToBeADuck said: JJ, i like your strong stance about better OOC scheduling. Let me up the anti just a bit. Just for the sake of discussion and out the box thinking. Some of this has been discussed on the Forum before. How about a merger with the ACC in scheduling. Each ACC team travels west to play one game against the PAC and each PAC team travels east to play an ACC game. And they count as a conference game. If UW played Clemson, FSU played Oregon, WSU played Miami or OSU played UNC, I believe those matchups would draw more eyeballs than OSU vs AU. Eye balls command top media dollars. Turn the tables on the networks. There is value and strength in numbers. As in all things, there would be naysayers and problems to work out. But the best way to not be at the mercy of Fox, SEC and BIG is to become your own super conference. Keep the ACC and PAC separate so you have 2 CFP qualifiers. Shape your own future or let someone else do it for you. How about a merger with the ACC sans BC and Syracuse with a Pacific Division and an Atlantic division? ESPN media deal that runs through 2036 goes away with The 'Atlantic-Pacific Conference' able to negotiate a new deal and with the ACC network expanding to cover the new conference. CFB and CBB played cross-division. All other sports would be focused intra-division to cut down on travel costs. Combined champ tournaments for baseball, softball, golf, etc. This would be a solid 'bronze medal conference' that would leave the B12 in the dust and keep Oregon, UW, UNC, Clemson, and FSU 'at home.' With a 12-team playoff format which I think will go to 16 in 2026, 10 conference football games would likely provide a strong enough SOS to ease up OOC. Perhaps 6 CFB games intra-division and 4 cross-division? I love your thoughts but why not the whole enchilada? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 34 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 1:09 PM, 12Duck72 said: Let me see if I can answer your questions as briefly as possible which is hard for me sometimes lol. This conference has been falling behind for years. Remember there is a very good reason why LA schools bolted. You can call them traitors all you want but it was a sound financial decision. Will all the travel offset that? Maybe we will see. The money gap between the SEC, BIG10 and everyone else is going to increase as the years go by. I admire those of you who feel that PAC should just hold on, hope for the best, expand with schools that 2 years ago no one wanted and maybe by the next contract this will work out better. I'm not that optimistic fellow Duck fans. There is already going an exposure issue with TV and if this is an all streaming deal that's not going to be any better either. And add on top of that the incompetence of the leadership that this conference has suffered through the years and that's what I'm talking about. The chaos I'm referring to is on multiple fronts. What if Colorado and Arizona go now? What happens if ND finally grows a pair and joins a conference? Eventually at some point the ACC is going to join this mess. Then it's every man for himself. Look I get I'm in the minority around here which is fine. I can take the heat. I guess I'm just amazed at the blind loyalty to this conference from some of you. I admit I don't get it. I don't care what happens to the other 9 schools and if joining the MW meant the Ducks had a seat at the big table so be it. Sorry Happy, I was trying to be brief. Unless the media deal is a complete bust, CU, Arizona, and all of the other Pac-10 schools are going nowhere. Even if the two you mentioned decided to leave where will the B12 get the money? ESPN/FOX are not blindly committed to funding the addition of more B12 inventory. Streaming via Apple or Amazon will be far better than having games on Peacock, a network with 13M subscribers. The Pac will come with a media deal at least equal to the B12 media deal or close enough not to justify a lateral move to another 'Power 3' conference. Blind loyalty to the Pac has nothing to do with a decision to stay in the Pac. That's a decision that will be based wholly on economics. And you cannot move without an invite and money behind the invite. As to the 2 LA schools making a 'sound financial move' that remains to be seen especially for UCLA. The prospects of even 1 LA school in the expanded playoff in 2024 are not all that great. I do not see SC, especially with Williams gone and UCLA football as superior to Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State football. And good luck to the CBB teams, let alone non-revenue teams, having to travel two time zones plus for every away game. The deal has already seen a $5M haircut and no one told the LA schools that a number of their home games will be broadcast on Peacock with its small 20M customer base. Hang in there. The media deal will get done before Pac-12 Football Media Day in early July in Las Vegas. Be careful what you wish for. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 35 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 10:09 AM, 12Duck72 said: I guess I'm just amazed at the blind loyalty to this conference from some of you. That is not "Polite and Respectful" to fellow OBD members. That is spin, a shot at those who disagree with you, a "Straw-Man" argument, and "Throwing Group-Shade" among those who discuss/debate in good faith. Please read No. 2a and No. 15a in the Rules. I have been in the massive minority before on a topic, (long before you joined us) and you will not get grief for your views, but everyone does for behaviors that don't fit with the-forum-with-decorum. Note it was not your view that created the problem, but how you presented it. Remember also....we don't have an offer from the B1G, and won't anytime soon with the massive issues they have to deal with before the 2024 season. Most of us are resigned to the fact that change is coming, but the upcoming 5-6 year window gives us a chance to increase the brand of Oregon that much further. 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 36 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 10:35 PM, HappyToBeADuck said: Honestly, SMU has no chance or very slim, at a CFP invite in their present situation. Their die hard fans support them. In the PAC, they can build their program with $30 million annually. G5 teams don't work in the current 4 team play off. A 12 team playoff will probably only see 1 G5 team get a token invite. Cincinnati basically had a two year campaign with a covid season in order to earn themselves an invite to the playoff. They needed their players for an extra year and two years of publicity to get there. SMU might not have national championship ambitions but they will be earning more money and their program will be elevated. Especially if they are playing some good teams that are nationally relevant.. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyToBeADuck No. 37 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Great comments and replies by everyone. Thanks Charles and JJ, would love to see a merger but would not want a merger that caused either conference to lose one seat at the table. You dont have to have the cross conference games count as a conference game. However, it makes them more compelling. Consider this that very few ACC fans, if any are watching Stanford play Colorado. Hec, i dont even watch it...... And how many PAC fans watch Duke play NC State? But both fan bases will watch Duke vs Stanford. Oregon would not be playing Clrmson or FSU every year. Maybe every 5 or 6 years. But these games are a mutual benefit for both conferences to build new rivalries and build there respective brands. Sure is a better benefit than play most BIG12 teams. To me the ACC and PAC have a chance to do something special together. Try it out, run it around the block for 4 or 5 years. Make yourself relevant and more watchable. 12Duck72, thanks for your thoughts and i agree that the PAC leadership decision making is terrible. It has left us in a very vulnerable position. How the PAC looks 5 years from now is up to that leadership. Quality decisions matter. I would be more than satisfied if the media rights agreement comes at the last possible moment...... As long as its the right medis contract for the PAC and our Ducks. GO DUCKS.... GO OBDF........ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred flintstone No. 38 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 10:58 AM, NJDuck said: I believe most people feel as you do. College sports is headed down a rabbit hole no one likes. The Pac-12 will have a media short term contract done, but I think it can still be debatable whether the Pac-12 will survive or not. After the next BIG Ten contract opens up will they possibly invite Oregon, Washington, Stanford, maybe Cal to join UCLA and USC for a 'West Coast Pod'? According to most write ups, is what they are predicting. But there's no guarantee that will happen. A lot can happen in the next 5 or 6 years. Could adding SDSU and SMU strengthen the Pac-12 down the road? I believe they would. Could possibly adding Tulane and UNLV as well help? from what I have read about these schools and media growth could strengthen the Pac-12 down the road. My biggest concern is will the Pac-12 finally make the best decisions possible for the conference to be successful? From what has happen in the past makes this the most debatable of all. Let's face it, the ACC is in danger down the road as well. The BIG and SEC could pick apart what they desire to have. You are right, Oregon can't or should not rely on Phil Knight's money. Oregon will most likely benefit from him in a trust fund after he no longer is with us. Back in 2009, this was published: In his largest stock move to date, Nike's chairman and co-founder on Wednesday gave 20 million shares of his company's stock, worth about $1.32 billion, to three trusts in his name. Nike disclosed the move in a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. The filing does not say who ultimately will benefit from the trusts. What is interesting is the person overseeing the trusts, according to the filing: Pat Kilkenny, who served as UO's top athletics official when Knight donated $100 million to the department. Knight still owns 65 million shares worth about 4.3 billion, the filing shows. Nike shares closed Wednesday at 66.14 on the New York Stock Exchange, just 29 cents off a 52-week high. The stock has gained 30 percent year-to-date. Can you imagine what it is worth now? Of course we know that his wife and children will benefit the most. But I am sure Oregon will too. Phil Knight places $1.3 billion of Nike stock in trusts WWW.OREGONLIVE.COM Nike's chairman and co-founder gives 20 million shares to three different trusts, likely to pass on to heirs, and names former Oregon Athletic Director Pat Kilkenny as trustee. Rough estimate of 10 billion......two 2 for 1 splits since 2009 and the price is roughly double. Of course that is if they retained the stock in the trust. They could have sold for diversification. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus No. 39 Share Posted June 19, 2023 SDSU botched their exit announcement big time. They will fit right in to the inept PAC-12 beautifully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDuck Moderator No. 40 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Mountain West: Won't approve any exceptions for San Diego St. The Mountain West Conference sent an additional letter to San Diego State on Friday, informing the school that "at this time" the conference will not approve any exceptions the school had requested last week when it gave notice that it intends to resign from the conference, sources told ESPN's Pete Thamel on Monday. Mountain West: Won't approve any exceptions for San Diego St. - ESPN WWW.ESPN.COM The Mountain West Conference has informed San Diego State that it does not accept the school's assertion that it had not given formal notice of resignation from the league and that it will not approve... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 41 Share Posted June 20, 2023 On 6/19/2023 at 10:50 AM, WoadBlue said: Did you mention hatred for the Big Ten? Warren did not do throat of the clear pure BT past. He acted like any BT leader would have done in any decade: whatever nasty con game is required to make the BT richer, Just Do It! Folt was at UNC before USC, and I despised her. So did many with power at the school, because she did not last long and hasn't been missed. When that Alliance was announced, I said that if it were implemented, then all 3 leagues would benefit from having the best possible OOC schedules, which would drive up TV audiences. But I also said that the BT history meant that the BT would be in it only as long as the BT did not have something to gain by destroying it. On 6/20/2023 at 12:02 PM, NJDuck said: Mountain West: Won't approve any exceptions for San Diego St. The Mountain West Conference sent an additional letter to San Diego State on Friday, informing the school that "at this time" the conference will not approve any exceptions the school had requested last week when it gave notice that it intends to resign from the conference, sources told ESPN's Pete Thamel on Monday. Mountain West: Won't approve any exceptions for San Diego St. - ESPN WWW.ESPN.COM The Mountain West Conference has informed San Diego State that it does not accept the school's assertion that it had not given formal notice of resignation from the league and that it will not approve... This is what the ACC said to Maryland when the Terps went to the B1G. Maryland litigated and ended up paying about half of the contractual exit fee. This is all just gamesmanship in the game of CFB realignment musical chairs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDuck Moderator No. 42 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Pac-12 will be badly stung if it doesn't land San Diego State and SMU The realignment saga continues in the second half of June, in the final days of both the fiscal year and the college sports cycle which ends alongside it. June 30 is the date by which San Diego State needs to leave the Mountain West or pay an exit fee of nearly $16 million more than what it would owe the conference. Everyone in the college sports world is waiting to see how this game of high-stakes poker plays out. The smart money says it’s more likely than not that San Diego State and SMU will join the Pac-12, but what should logically happen is not what regularly happens. This is college sports, after all. “Nobody I spoke with believes the Pac-12 can eclipse a $32 million-per-school average distribution without including both San Diego State and SMU,” Canzano wrote. “The networks and streaming services are looking for not only quality programming but quantity in terms of available games. The Pac-12 presidents might want to stay at 10 schools, but they need the inventory that a 12-team conference brings to get paid. That’s important for football as well as basketball.” If Pac-12 swings and misses with Aztecs, SMU, it will suffer TROJANSWIRE.USATODAY.COM We’re not predicting whether the #Pac12 will actually gain the #Aztecs and #SMU, but we can say it will be a big defeat if the league can’t pull it off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 43 Share Posted June 21, 2023 On 6/21/2023 at 9:17 AM, NJDuck said: Pac-12 will be badly stung if it doesn't land San Diego State and SMU The realignment saga continues in the second half of June, in the final days of both the fiscal year and the college sports cycle which ends alongside it. June 30 is the date by which San Diego State needs to leave the Mountain West or pay an exit fee of nearly $16 million more than what it would owe the conference. Everyone in the college sports world is waiting to see how this game of high-stakes poker plays out. The smart money says it’s more likely than not that San Diego State and SMU will join the Pac-12, but what should logically happen is not what regularly happens. This is college sports, after all. “Nobody I spoke with believes the Pac-12 can eclipse a $32 million-per-school average distribution without including both San Diego State and SMU,” Canzano wrote. “The networks and streaming services are looking for not only quality programming but quantity in terms of available games. The Pac-12 presidents might want to stay at 10 schools, but they need the inventory that a 12-team conference brings to get paid. That’s important for football as well as basketball.” If Pac-12 swings and misses with Aztecs, SMU, it will suffer TROJANSWIRE.USATODAY.COM We’re not predicting whether the #Pac12 will actually gain the #Aztecs and #SMU, but we can say it will be a big defeat if the league can’t pull it off. Canzano said in his article yesterday that SMU has enough wealthy backers that they'll cover an exit fee without even blinking. SDSU can probably get their fee reduced or get a payment time table olto make it doable. They also probably have some backers that are happy to help out. It's just posturing at the moment but it'd be nice if it was all over. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennsylvania Duck Moderator No. 44 Share Posted July 4, 2023 TRENDING NOW: Mountain West Conference Withholding Millions From San Diego State Over Exit Fee Just a couple of weeks ago, San Diego State told the Mountain West Conference it intended to leave the conference. However, just days ago, the University then told the MWC that it planned to remain in the league after its grand plans of an invite to the Pac-12 fell through (for now). However, the Mountain West isn’t reportedly interested in playing nice. According to the San Diego Union Tribune, lawyers are involved over a $6.6 million distribution share for the 2022-23 academic year that the Mountain West is withholding to defray SDSU’s exit fee, pending reinstatement by the board. Essentially, the Mountain West is suggesting that SDSU told the league it planned to leave, and it owes the league $17 million, so they are withholding $6.6 million, with a remaining balance of $10.4 million. To read further about the predicament SDSU finds itself in, click here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Haulin No. 45 Share Posted July 4, 2023 All this realignment and media money grab is sickening to me. It has really taken away my joy for college football. Hard to remain a fan. I rarely comment on this topic. Often these topics cause me to step away from OBDF and other platforms I used to frequent to get my fix. Dirty pool for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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