Is It Really A Deboer Problem?

[Haywarduck]

There is definitely something, or things about the dawg program which are causing Oregon problems over the last two years under DeBoer's guidance. Many, myself included have wondered if DeBoer is the difference, and Lanning isn't as good of a coach, or at least not yet, but is that the problem?

 

I would argue Deboer is much like our next opponents coach Jamey Chadwell, a guy who came to a program with a system and all his primary coaches all set up. Both coaches came from a successful program with their DC's and OC's already well aware of how the head coach wants things and in lock step with the head coach.

 

Lanning is just learning how to put the head coaching ideas into action while having new assistants, and a new OC for the second time. My thinking is evolving into believing the assistants are the difference between our program and where we expect our program to be.

 

CK did well at Oregon because he walked into a complete assistant coaching package. All the processes were there and he was able to tweak them, but didn't have to struggle with setting that all up. After leaving Oregon's coaching package he struggled and still does to this day.

 

I view our win against OSU as evidence Lannings coaching package is coming together. Other systems and process within the program are coming together. Lanning is as capable as any coach out there, he just needs more time to get his assistants in line, and the processes he knows running right.

 

We don't have a DeBoer problem, really just an impatience problem. We just have to continue to support Lanning in the process of creating another strong core of the program. We see all the pieces, but the time it takes to really strengthen the core is the key. It is also the key to the strength of the next program we play, and another tough test.

 

 

[Mic]

Given the talent levels of both teams and the 3 different sites of each game, the difference in this rivalry right now might be one of DeBoer's much greater experience.  It would be a very hard thing to correlate but I still like O's coach and think O is in good hands.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Mic

[anyotherduck]

Perhaps DeBoer is Lanning's Kryptonite. More importantly, Lanning needs to figure out how to get his team to start games with more emphasis, and carry the intensity through all 4 quarters. 

 

The Ducks can play, we know because we've seen 20-30+ minutes of very good play per game this year. To beat WA though, we need to play all 4 quarters with all cylinders firing. As impressive as the Ducks looked (at times) this year, it's never been a full 60 minutes of hammer down play. If Lanning can figure this out we'd be virtually unstoppable.

[Drake]

Cup half full outlook.
 

Down 20 - 3 early and the Ducks finally got it going. With momentum on our side, the Ducks were just 25 hundredths of a second from creating a fumble that could have turned the game.
 

That is the difference when teams are so evenly matched. 
 

I think in the end that DL’s ability to recruit will separate him from DeBoer. Without top players year in and year out, Deboer will struggle against the Ducks, tOSU, Michigan, and Penn State. (USC ??)
 

The number of playoff potential teams in the BIG will make for some exciting games. Not much room for error going forward. 

[Mic]

If we're going to question whether or not the difference between these two teams might be the coaches then consider this:  

 

Oregon came out to start the game and went 0-3, no 1st downs on their first two positions. UW got their 1st possession and scored to get the lead.  

 

UW had scripted a better defense to stop O's offense than O was able to script a defense to stop theirs. The Huskies were better prepared to start the game than the Ducks. That's obvious.

 

Later, the Ducks, after making adjustments both offensively and defensively clawed their way back into the game to actually take their one lead.  UW made their adjustments and finished the game out.  So, there's that.  It seems to me if the Ducks were out-coached it was only by a whisker.

 

We move on.  There's a bowl game to win in January.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Mic

[Gizmoduck]

I disagree. I don't think the Ducks got outcoached at all. As a matter of fact I think our coaches did spectacular! As a coach you make a gameplan, theirs was solid, the players just didn't execute to start the game. Down 20-3 it's coaching and execution that got them back in the game, and allowed them to take the lead. After Penix threw the interception, we had a chance to put them away.

 

Instead, they intercepted it right back. (I don't blame Bo, when the ball left his hand that defender was out of bounds.) Washington executed just a little bit better than us in all three games since Lanning and Deboer took over the progrums. It is also true that the doggone Fuskies have had lady luck bounce their way in all 3 games as well. 

 

We'll win our share, these three really hurt because we know how special this team is, and what a magical season it could have been. We watched those young men put their hearts and bodies on the line for OBD and came up just a little short. Sometimes the fairytale is just real life where our heroes don't defeat the villainous Huskies. They move on to the rest of their lives and we regroup and put our hopes into a fresh batch of ducklings cheering them on until they finally reach that mountain top.

 

I believe in coach Lanning, I think He has the makings of a Legendary Ducks coach...just not yet. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Gizmoduck

[kirklandduck]

Something also to consider:

 

DeBoer has been coaching for ages and may have reached his apex.

 

Lanning is only in his 2nd year as HC and has come up short by an average of only 3 points....3.

 

One coach is more likely than the other to keep improving significantly over the next 5 years.  I like Oregon's position right now.

[Log Haulin]

Both coaches are good coaches imo. DeBoer has seen a ton more games as HC than Lanning has. That is a difference maker.

 

Lanning has a high ceiling that will take a few years to get close to. At least I hope he does. I also hope he stays at Oregon long enough to reach that cealing.

 

As for this game, and this is just my opinion. DeBoer played Lanning like a cat and mouse.

 

DeBoer knew exactly how Lanning was going to play this right from the start. KD made adjusments all week and smacked Oregon in the mouth coming out of the gate.

 

What leads me to believe Lanning has the chops is the way he adjusted and countered to overcome a 17 point deficit. Not an easy task against a top 2 team in the country.

 

DeBoer is a brilliant coach though. Adjusted in the end and got the last laugh. He had his team ready from the start and played this out brilliantly. Checkmate.

 

I tip my hat. Offer a congratulatuons and at the end of the day...

 

Huck the Fuskys.

[Augduck]

John Canzano made a very salient point in his post game column.  Dan Lanning was a 19 year old linebacker at William Jewell college when Kalen DeBoer started coaching.   Not an excuse but a fact, and several others here have highlighted this much more eloquently than JC but just making the point that experience matters.  

 

Dan has all the makings of a great coach.  I never felt that about his predecessor. I'm onboard till I see something that negates that.  

[Ruffian]

Kalen DeBoer has a college record of 103-11.  seems to me everyone has a DeBoer problem.

[Haywarduck]

What got me wondering about this was Mr. Marsh's comment about Tosh not being the head coach type of assistant. How much better can our defense get with continuity at the DC position? I suppose that is what I am asking all those who respond.

 

The same can be asked of our offense and continuity at OC. 

 

I have been thinking if your lieutenants are onboard with what you want to do, it is easier to instill the culture and competencies you are trying to create. Once the coaches know the drills, and the senior players know the drills the program is almost on autopilot. The coaches can work on higher level stuff.

 

When you have knew coaches, and players who aren't use to a system, then a lot of time is spent setting standards, and expectations.

 

Taking it a bit further a program which hires a great assistant as a head coach needs to be more patient. A program which hires an experienced coach, with his top assistants, may be able to expect a quicker return, although they may already know the ceiling. We have no idea what the ceiling is, but we are excited to see.

[GODUCKS15]

I think we'll find out a lot about each coach when they reload for next year. Both coaches had two of the best seasoned QB's in college football. That may be hard to replicate. 

[DanLduck]

I've often wondered how much success and failure, is due to coaching, and how much is result of poor execution by players.

It's a hard metric to measure. 

 

However, I think I read somewhere that Deboar is 9-0 as head coach against top 25 ranked teams.

Coaching must mean something. 

 

No doubt we are on the right trajectory. 

 

As keen as coach Lanning is on going to the "doctor" each week to find and improve that 1%, it won't be long before he keeps winning those close games.

 

Even Saban lost to Auburn his first 2 years at Bama. His first Iron bowl win was a 36-0 shellacing.

We gotta hang in there Duck fans and believe. 

We're gonna get there.

 

Now bring on Liberty. 

[Haywarduck]

Another data point is this article on DeBoer and how he remembers every loss. When he started out he lost to the past champion twice, before he fully established his programs dominance. He also lost to MariØ, and it is interesting reading about his take on the games he lost.

 

It is a pay site, but you get a freebie if you haven't been on there before. Fortunately I don't read much about the dawgs, try to stay away actually!

Kalen DeBoer has 100 wins, but he hasn't forgotten the 11 losses

WWW.ONMONTLAKE.COM

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Washington's coach reflects on lessons learned in defeat.

 

[Washington Waddler]

     Still not convinced we came out flat. I think we came out ready and got haymakered by a higher ranked, super-pumped 12-0 team that felt disrespected by being a 9-1/2 point underdog to a team they’d beaten twice in a row. If anything, we were sucker punched by the odds makers.

 

     As to Deboer, next season should be telling as to how much of his current success is do the coaching/system, and how much was Michael Penix. Will he be able to plug and play, or - like Bo - will he find that Heisman-worthy QBs don’t grow on trees

Edited December 4, 2023 by Washington Waddler
added words

[Augduck]

On 12/4/2023 at 12:58 PM, Washington Waddler said:

     Still not convinced we came out flat. I think we came out ready and got haymakered by a super-pumped 12-0 team that felt disrespected by being a 9-1/2 point underdog to a team they’d beaten twice in a row. If anything, we were sucker punched by the odds makers.

 

     As to Deboer, next season should be telling as to how much of his current success is do the coaching/system, and how much was Michael Penix. Will he be able to plug and play, or - like Bo - will he find that Heisman-worthy QBs don’t grow on trees

^^^^^ this all day.

 

I agree on all counts.  

 

It will be interesting to see what DeBoer does as you say when Penix, Odunze, McMillan etc. are gone.   He is not recruiting well at the moment.

 

I don't dislike him at all.  He's not arrogant (looking at you Jimmy Lake and Don James, who I know is deceased) and always seems gracious and yes is a damn good coach.

 

There have been whispers in UW circles that some think DeBoer might want to give the NFL a go at some point.   Who knows if it is anything more than speculation and fan talk.

[cartm25]

There is definitely a DeBoer problem, IMO.

 

Since becoming HC of UW, DeBoer is 3-0 against the Ducks . . . that's a problem.

 

A few comments referenced Lanning's recruiting compared to DeBoer's. I agree that, based on star rankings, Dan Lanning can seriously recruit, but from my vantage point, DeBoer recruited and/or developed an NFL-caliber QB and THREE NFL WRs (not 1, not 2, but 3).

 

Oregon has been recruiting at historic levels since 2018 (~top 10 average over the years), while UW has not. But DeBoer steps in and within two years makes the elusive 4-Team CFP, all while going undefeated against the Ducks. That, to me, speaks to incredible coaching.

 

There was a comment about DeBoer reaching his Apex, while Dan Lanning still has more room for significant growth. Not sure I agree fully here . . . how much further can a coach improve beyond going undefeated, and making the CFP? Win the CFP, is all. What I'm trying to say is, I would argue that DeBoer appears to be near or at the apex of coaching in general, and not halfway up the mountain still hoping to get to the top.

 

Oregon's defense gave up 27.4 PPG in 2022 and that improved to 17.3 PPG in 2023. DeBoer's offense continued to score in the mid-30s against the Ducks even after the significant improvement in the Ducks defense.

 

I know this all sounds negative, but I'm writing this hoping that the Ducks don't chalk this up to mere "luck".

 

That would imply that, absent luck, Oregon would win every time without needing to adapt or change anything, and I just don't believe that is the case.

[Just Ducky]

I think it was the game plan we employed that helped do us in.

 

We pretty much played in a 7 yard window until we got so far behind that we had to start stretching the field. The mutts seemed to know we were going to do this and it paid off for them for a big lead. Seemed like our players were stuffed on almost every play in the first qtr.

 

I hope we learned from this mistake and go after the opponents secondary from the start of each and every game.

 

We made their defense better than it was.

 

[MrBrooks]

Does anyone else think DeBoer is really David Shaw in disguise?

[RowdyBrad]

I don't think there is much more to it than the UW coach is very experienced and had NFL caliber receivers this year. The proof will be in the pudding next year when he has to reload with talent that should be less than this years. I do think he is a coach that just knows how to win. I wouldn't trade him for Lanning, but Dan is in his second year and is learning very fast as he goes. I don't think there is a more competitive person which I love, he is just learning when to temper that competitiveness when he needs to.

[Utki]

I think the problem in the Pac12 title game was mostly down to Oregon expecting to win as opposed to wanting to win.  Why coach let that happen is a Lanning problem not a UW problem.

[Dr Hilarius]

When Mari-no-O left, DeBoer was at the top of my list for OBD. I was extremely impressed with DeBoer’s work at Fresno State.

 

I was disappointed and scared when I learned DeBoer was headed to UW. (While I was thrilled that Riley was headed to U$C.)

 

When it became clear DL was gonna be our guy, I was pleased and excited.

 

With all that said, I do think DL has a KD problem.

 

I’ve seen a lot of people saying that DL had a good game plan but OBD didn’t execute.

 

It is the coach’s job to teach players how to execute. And on paper, OBD has better players.

 

So if Fusky players executed better, it was bc they were better coached.

 

However, I am impressed with DL’s improvement from year 1, and I KNOW that DL is learning from KD. 

 

I am  that DL will eventually flip the script and beat KD consistently.

 

[CalBear95]

@Haywarduck  I think your take is right.  Continuity of staff plays a massive role and one I would argue isn’t greatly appreciated.  
 

To your point, having coaching staff that intimately know a coach’s system makes it much easier to get up and running.  And the coach having a staff he knows and trusts from a working relationship spanning years enables massive efficiencies 

 

DL OTOH didn’t have that.  Some coaches have been newly promoted and are learning their roles (e.g., Lupoi) and most of leadership are learning how to work with each other 

 

That’s all a function of experience which is a derivative of time.  
 

DeBoer has advantages on all of those fronts much like Whittingham does at Utah.  Coaches will get poached which means DL will need to also build a bench.  
 

But all told, this is something DL and his staff will traverse and the program will get even better because of the efficiencies gained in both identifying, ingratiating and improving their players (as well as their game planning and in-game/situational execution)

Edited December 9, 2023 by CalBear95

[1Ducker1]

RE- The Washington game, The same team that beat Utah USC and Oregon St didn't show up in Vegas. I put it on both the players and coaches.

[Cacker Guy]

On 12/4/2023 at 4:10 PM, Just Ducky said:

I think it was the game plan we employed that helped do us in.

 

We pretty much played in a 7 yard window until we got so far behind that we had to start stretching the field. The mutts seemed to know we were going to do this and it paid off for them for a big lead. Seemed like our players were stuffed on almost every play in the first qtr.

 

I hope we learned from this mistake and go after the opponents secondary from the start of each and every game.

 

We made their defense better than it was.

I agree, JD.  Heck, we started every game I can remember with those WR screens and short RPO's.  Which was okay, but UW had to expect it.  I would've run a fake WR screen deep shot on the first play.  Loosen up the secondary and make them play more honest.

 

Defensively I expected UW to try to run the ball early.  They did, and executed very well, but I think we could have defended much better.

 

We were outcoached.  UW's players were physically, emotionally and mentally better prepared.  I don't say that as a criticism of our staff.  Well, I suppose it is somewhat.  But I am just very very impressed with UW's staff.  DeBoer and his staff are elite.  I mean Alabama and Georgia elite.  

 

Maybe he can't recruit as well -- according to the star ratings.  But I suspect he will get his guys somehow and coach them up to play like this year's team.  I was super impressed with how his Fresno St. team played us a couple years ago.  They were very well coached.

 

I'm sure we'll improve.  It would be nice to have some continuity in the staff...