Is Developing Quarterbacks a Thing of the Past?

[FishDuck Article]

Tyler Shough is the only player since Marcus Mariota to start in multiple seasons for Oregon after not starting as a true freshman. Sure, Mariota is the greatest Oregon Duck of all time, but he left the team nine years ago, and during that time only Shough has pulled off what seems to be a pretty simple feat? So what has happened during ...

 

Is Developing Quarterbacks a Thing of the Past? | FishDuck

FISHDUCK.COM

---

Tyler Shough is the only player since Marcus Mariota to start in multiple seasons for Oregon after not starting as a true freshman. Sure…

[Smith72]

Thompson was given a chance every day in practice.

 

Thompson was not recruited by Lanning.

 

Thompson is a good person.  Thompson made improvements.

 

I trust in Coach Lanning and Coach Stein. 

[Log Haulin]

Thanks for the article Ryan. I have been saying this for a bit now. I agree, it doesn't appear that Oregon is capable of developing a HS QB. A decade of failing to do so is proof of that imo.

 

In that decade Oregon has mostly 3-4 loss records. There are a couple 2 loss seasons. Trying to forget about 4-8 in 2016. 

 

Since MM went to the league, Oregon has been conference champs twice (19', 20'). 2020 was a 4-3 season due to covid year. No Playoff invites and a 3-4 bowl record.

 

Pretty mediocre results imo. Sure... more goes into these results than lack of QB development. But that lack of development plays a part. 

 

It is concerning that Oregon can't develope a QB to power 5 starting levels. Ducks seem to be of the mindset that transfer QB's are the recipes for success. But the record seemingly says something different. Oregon hasn't won but 2 conf titles and a couple bowl games in this QB teansfer era.

 

Again, I get it that much more is involved in mediocrity than just the QB position. Coaching changes, covid and many other factors play a part.

 

My hope is that this changes soon. I can't expect different results than mediocrity until then.  I would love to see a recruited QB take the starting job and ball out.

 

Dillon Gabriel has stated OU will always be home. He is a Sooner by his own admission. He will strap up the Green and Yellow, but will he truly be a Duck?

 

Dante Moore stated he wants to transfer to a place he can be developed. Is that place Oregon? A pretty sizeable body of evidence suggests otherwise.

 

The pressure to win now is strong. So I have no reason to believe this trend will change. Maybe the Ducks will become elite regardless. But I have my doubts and the record seems to confirm it.

[Haywarduck]

I would say the question is can Oregon recruit, pick an elite qb again? Picking Shough over Brock Purdy went against who we have always been. Even recruiting Ty Thompson was going after the shiny object rather than the recruit that wasn't mainly based on star rating.

 

This is what worries me about going after Dante, but Lanning and Stein know better than I. I also know the Brock Purdy's aren't easy for anyone to pick, but it is possible to look beyond the star rating.

 

I tend to be impressed by Novosad, but I also think a high school qb has to be willing to sit if he comes to an elite program. Ty may have picked a route which will serve him well. He was around a program which knew how to win and the facilities and coaching were top notch. He may just go on to a good college career.

 

I look at our RB room as similar, as we brought in Bucky, and Noah. We now have Jordan, and Jayden most likely leading the RB room. We have picked elite RB talent again. It wasn't the development it was the choice of recruits and the coaching. We not only have starting RB's, but strong back-ups again, with coaching.

 

That is what we need in the qb room. We need a strong starter and a capable developing back-up. How many times have we seen elite level teams and their starter goes down and they don't miss a beat. That Ohio team we will be playing comes to mind. Even Utah had a 2* who could step in and play reasonably well. We can't afford to lose another game because our starter goes down for a series or more.

 

What we need is to recruit capable talent and I think the coaching is again there. MariØ couldn't pick them, recruit or transfer, or develop them, play them. We are one injury away from finding out if we are elite at the QB position. The reason is elite programs don't just have one good qb, they have two or three, and are ready with a capable back-up who can finish off a win. 

 

Elite teams even recruit talent who can win a game as a back-up.  That is what we need, again and for the foreseeable future.

[JDuck]

Thompson worked under 3 coordinators, the last two are known for developing QBs.  Hayward Duck  is right, you have to pick the right guy.  5 stars in high school don't always pan out. It's not all on the coaches.

 

Mariota and Herbert were special talents.  MM had good coaches, JH did too with Helf for 1 year, but not under Mari.  He was just good.

[Log Haulin]

On 12/17/2023 at 8:07 AM, JDuck said:

 It's not all on the coaches.

It's over a 9 year stretch. In my opinion, that points directly at coaching. It also points to the program as a whole as they have had no continuity over the last 9 years. The previous two coaches have used Oregon to get to their prized school. We will see with Lanning.

 

On 12/17/2023 at 8:07 AM, JDuck said:

the last two are known for developing QBs.

Just my thought but both these coaches, Dilly and Stein, are both very young. It appears both are good QB coaches but I don't know that enough time on the job shows that to be an absolute. 

 

 

[Just Ducky]

 I just wonder how much time is actually spent trying to develop QBs. 
 

 I do know that Herbert was held back because of a conservative coach that doesn’t know a lick about offense.

 

 It seems QBs now days, even in the NFL, need to use their legs to be effective and when you have poor quality backups the risk of running them is far too great.

 

 An offensive coordinator trying to coach QBs seems like a big ask. If Stein in the QB coach, which I assume he is, then is it too much to ask of him or is he really qualified. 
 

 In my mind it would be easier to steel a good one with a track record than to spend lots of time to develop a 5 star that should already be good according to rivals. The big draw back here is trying to teach the guy a new system if he only has 1 year left.

 

 I hear there are over 100 QBs in the transfer portal this season so it’s pretty obvious the Ducks aren’t the only program with a serious problem. Not sure how to fix it. It’s for sure the NCAA doesn’t know either.

[AnotherOD]

I have found it sort of interesting lately reading the concern Oregon may eventually be chasing off high school QB recruits by bringing in transfers?

 

Didn't Washington bring in transfers like Eason (Georgia), Penix (Indiana), and now Rodgers (MSU), and move away from high school recruits they brought in like Haener, Yankoff, Gabbers, Huard, and Morris?

 

Didn't WSU go out and bring in Ward from Incarnate Word?

 

At OSU, didn't Christian Gebbia come from Nebraska and Chance Nolan from Middle Tennessee State? They did briefly play their own recruit in Gulbranson but seemed to want to get away from him quickly as they could and went out and got a Clemson transfer (DJU). They brought in a HS commit who they thought they could develop (Chiles), but now he is gone and apparently they are looking in the portal so they don't have to go back to Gulbranson.

 

Before finally turning to a freshman, didn't Cal go through Plummer from Purdue, Finley from NC State, and Jackson from TCU?

 

Didn't USC bring in Williams and send out their HS recruit Jaxson Dart?

 

Didn't UCLA bring in transfer QBs Gabbers from the UW and Schlee from Kent State and put them ahead of the high school recruit who had been in the program since 2019 (Griffin)?

 

Didn't ASU bring in Drew Pine from Notre Dame and Trenton Bourguet from BYU?

 

Didn't Arizona bring in WSU transfer de Laura (and if he doesn't get hurt is Fifita still waiting)?

 

Isn't Utah's top QB (when healthy) a transfer from Texas, who competed and won the job from a South Carolina transfer (Bentley), a Baylor transfer (Brewer), and another Texas transfer (Jackson)?

 

Didn't Colorado start a transfer from Jackson State (Sanders)?

 

In Ari Patu, Ashton Daniels, and Myles Jackson, we do have one program out of 12 find a QB with their own recruits (and even then they brought in a Syracuse QB in Justin Lamson).

 

If you were a high school QB looking at a Pac-12 for a place that isn't looking at transfers, maybe you look at Stanford and stay away from Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, WSU, Cal, USC, UCLA, ASU, Arizona, Utah, and Colorado?

 

Maybe you try the Mountain West?

 

Boise State developed a couple QB; but, they haven't seemed too happy there as Bachmeier left for Wake Forest and Green went to Arkansas.

 

Fresno State? They have started a UW transfer (Haener) and replaced him with a UCF transfer (Keene). San Diego State? They tried a VT transfer (Burmeister) before moving to a Mississippi State transfer (Mayden).

 

San Jose State? They started a Hawaii transfer (Cordeiro) who beat out an Oregon transfer (Butterfield). Wyoming? Andrew Peasley (Utah State). New Mexico? Dylan Hopkins (UAB). Nevada? Brendon Lewis (Colorado).

 

There actually are a few home grown QB left in the Mountain West, UNLV started with a guy who had been around the program several years (Brumfield) but turned to a freshman who they had recruited (Maiava), Fowler-Nicolosi at CSU, Legas (Utah State), and Schager at Hawaii.

 

So, Stanford, UNLV, CSU, Boise State, Hawaii might be spots left for a high school QB recruit wanting to play somewhere on the West Coast but is afraid transfers might be brought in.

 

I'd be surprised if high school recruits see Nix and Gabriel as anything different than college football these days. The opposite is probably still more true, the more successful they are, the more the UO looks like a place QBs can excel.

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by AnotherOD

[JDuck]

On 12/17/2023 at 9:20 AM, Just Ducky said:

 An offensive coordinator trying to coach QBs seems like a big ask. If Stein in the QB coach, which I assume he is, then is it too much to ask of him or is he really qualified. 
 

Helf was both, and excellent at both.  Chip...wasn't he QB coach too when he was OC?  Dennis Dixon went nuclear under Chip in one season.  Heismann and Natty both went down with the knee in the ASU game.  Justin Roper developed well in just 6 weeks, was 4th or 5th string when DD went down.

[DUCKED]

On 12/17/2023 at 5:23 AM, Haywarduck said:

I would say the question is can Oregon recruit, pick an elite qb again? Picking Shough over Brock Purdy went against who we have always been. Even recruiting Ty Thompson was going after the shiny object rather than the recruit that wasn't mainly based on star rating.

 

This is what worries me about going after Dante, but Lanning and Stein know better than I. I also know the Brock Purdy's aren't easy for anyone to pick, but it is possible to look beyond the star rating.

 

I tend to be impressed by Novosad, but I also think a high school qb has to be willing to sit if he comes to an elite program. Ty may have picked a route which will serve him well. He was around a program which knew how to win and the facilities and coaching were top notch. He may just go on to a good college career.

 

I look at our RB room as similar, as we brought in Bucky, and Noah. We now have Jordan, and Jayden most likely leading the RB room. We have picked elite RB talent again. It wasn't the development it was the choice of recruits and the coaching. We not only have starting RB's, but strong back-ups again, with coaching.

 

That is what we need in the qb room. We need a strong starter and a capable developing back-up. How many times have we seen elite level teams and their starter goes down and they don't miss a beat. That Ohio team we will be playing comes to mind. Even Utah had a 2* who could step in and play reasonably well. We can't afford to lose another game because our starter goes down for a series or more.

 

What we need is to recruit capable talent and I think the coaching is again there. MariØ couldn't pick them, recruit or transfer, or develop them, play them. We are one injury away from finding out if we are elite at the QB position. The reason is elite programs don't just have one good qb, they have two or three, and are ready with a capable back-up who can finish off a win. 

 

Elite teams even recruit talent who can win a game as a back-up.  That is what we need, again and for the foreseeable future.

“Picking Shough over Purdy went against what we have always been”

 

Not sure I understand that.

 

If you’re saying the Ducks should have chosen Purdy over Shough, well of course you would be right……in hindsight.

 

But keep in mind that the entire NFL overlooked Purdy, the very last pick in the draft. They missed on him, too.

 

Purdy doesn’t have the strongest arm and he is not particularly fast, but he is probably more composed than most of the first round QB’s that were chosen before him. He does not get rattled.

 

Purdy played 4 years at Iowa State.

 

He was DEVELOPED there, and even though the NFL didn’t appreciate what that could mean in leading a team, it’s pretty clear his experience was key.

 

I would love for the Ducks to get a QB and “develop” him, but I fear those days are gone. If you can keep the same starter for 2 years, you’re doing about as well as can be expected.

 

 

[Charles Fischer]

On 12/17/2023 at 9:20 AM, Just Ducky said:

 I hear there are over 100 QBs in the transfer portal this season so it’s pretty obvious the Ducks aren’t the only program with a serious problem.

Yep.  And how many of all these college QBs become good in the NFL?  You would think EVERY NFL team would have a great QB, but there are not that many great ones.

 

Which gets back to my point written before; finding a good QB is HARD at any level. All teams go through scads of them...trying to find the diamond.  Meanwhile the coaches have to win NOW, or we fans will be howling.  Thus the trend to proven transfers is not surprising.

 

I am pondering an article about solutions...

[woundedknees]

The Playoff final Oreg lost (you remember, after humiliating famous jameis in th Rose Bowl), more than a few Duck fans approached the final with a serious dose of confidence... tOSU was starting their (OMG) 3rd string QB.

 

OREGON, with their receiving corps dropping like flies (literally and figuratively), could watch in horror as the Buckeyes'  Cardale Jones, with a healthy assist from Zeke Elliot, punched the pigskin into the end zone repeatedly for the win.

 

The backups need to be well prepared, even if they may never be a starter.

 

The younger guys also need hope that if the keep grinding, there is a decent chance of starting at some point.

 

Constantly chasing the next shiny object on the horizon may not get us players with the patience to keep fighting for the goal in the days of NIL/portal/free agency.

[AlaskaDuck]

Depends on what you mean by developing. With the transfer portal, “developing” is now a two year event, not four year. TT is out because after three years he still seems shaky. Heck, his performance in last hear’s spring game was the worst I’d ever seen. Now, If Dante Moore joins the ducks, he’ll sit a year and then either start next year or hit the road. Same with Novosad.  That is how the business is run. 

[EastBayDuckDad]

Thanks to AnotherOD for the transfer QB manifesto. Every elite (and non-elite) team now mines the portal for quarterbacks. Looking back at the last few CFPs, around half of those teams got there with a transfer at the helm.

 

If there was a team to be concerned about QBs that they recruited going on to star at another school, it might be tOSU. CJ Stroud was homegrown but think Ewers at Texas and Burrows at LSU. Then again, they picked up Fields from Georgia so it would appear to cut both ways. 

 

The perception that Oregon doesn't develop quarterbacks or that elite recruits will avoid the Ducks if they have to compete against a transfer could be applied to almost every quality program in the nation. It will be the reality in CFB going forward now that transfers can play immediately and there is serious NIL money available.

 

The good news is that by virtue of Stein's prolific offense, Bo's success and the history of elite players like JH and MM, OBD have positioned themselves to not only recruit well at the position but get the cream of the crop in the portal. 

 

 

[Haywarduck]

On 12/17/2023 at 11:18 AM, DUCKED said:

“Picking Shough over Purdy went against what we have always been”

 

Not sure I understand that.

 

If you’re saying the Ducks should have chosen Purdy over Shough, well of course you would be right……in hindsight.

 

 

Purdy beat Shough every time he played him in high school. He also beat him every time he played him in college, but that just confirms what one could see in competition rather then just at camps and with the tape.

 

In the past we went after guys who didn't have the measurables and went after the unmeasurables. I have a feeling Lanning is looking more at the unmeasurables, unlike the last few head coaches. 

 

One should also look back, hindsight, and realize there is something to looking beyond what the camps, and pundits say. Take a chance on a winner who doesn't measure up. A guy like Brock, or Dillon just might pop up if you look hard enough. With a position this important it might be worth putting in the effort.

 

Also we have always been a team who made qb's out of players no one else fought over. Same with coaches, and although the shift away from that is great, I think our past isn't something we should be ashamed of, or ignore. 

[Jon Joseph]

You play the best guy on your roster at their given position. So long as the Ducks put a winning QB on the field I don't care if the player comes in as a transfer, a recruit, or off the bus as a walk-on.

 

You must put the best players on the field no matter where they come from if you are going to be among the Playoff Delightful Dozen. No one is taking away LSU's title because Joe Burrow transferred in.  Picking the portal properly today is a roster must. 

 

Ty is one of many highly touted guys to not make the transition from HS to big-time CFB. I appreciate the fine article but I am certain that the Oregon coaches did all they could to develop Ty. 

 

QB is the most important position in football at any level and the hardest position to recruit to. 

 

Dilly did a great job with Nix when he was a true frosh at Auburn, Nix was the SEC frosh player of the year and defeated Oregon in his first game. Stein did the same with homegrown talent at UTSA.

 

We're fighting for wins and not QB recruiting clicks. How can you bring in a better QB than the guy who transferred from UCF to Oklahoma and was the B12 top QB in 2023, beating out another great transfer, Quinn Ewers who transferred in from Ohio State?

 

You adapt or you disappear.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Jon Joseph

[Sunshine Larry]

Some say the transfer portal helps smaller programs. You can't have five stars riding the bench anymore. But at the most important position, the smaller programs will turn into farm teams for the Big guys.

 

Look at the QB from Toledo. A low two star with zero big time offers. This year he showed off his upside and development. Now he has options he didn't have three years ago.

 

It's great for Oregon, Washington, Alabama, LSU and Notre Dame. Not so much for Oregon State or Washington State. Haves and have nots isn't going anywhere. To answer the question, I say development isn't dead. It's just you'll be developed in the MAC or Mountain West, and play in the Big Ten and SEC.

[VegasDuck]

I think if you look at FSU this season one could conclude that developing QBs is very important. 

[Jon Joseph]

Holy Toledo! Rockets QB Finn has transferred to Baylor, a team on OR's future schedules unless Rob drops the Bears for 2 games in Pullman.