FishDuck Article Administrator No. 1 Share Posted April 18, 2023 New Offensive Coordinator Will Stein said something at this first post-practice press conference that made a lot of fans scratch their heads or in extreme cases mourn the death of Oregon’s offense without ever seeing a single snap. Mr. FishDuck raised an eyebrow at what was said, and took some time out from his fun figuring NFL odds and plotting ... What Does Coach Stein Mean by "Plays Are Overrated"? FISHDUCK.COM New Offensive Coordinator Will Stein said something at this first post-practice press conference that made a lot of fans scratch their... 1 2 2 1 Two Sites: FishDuck and the Our Beloved Ducks forum, The only "Forum with Decorum!" And All-Volunteer? What a wonderful community of Duck fans! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Haulin No. 2 Share Posted April 18, 2023 Great article David. You only need to look at the Patriots to confirm your point of players win games. Brady moved south and won, Pats became mediocre. Bucky had great players and beat Oregon badly with a 3rd string QB. A very talented 3rd string QB for sure. IMO, if you have great players in OL, DL and QB you win a ton of games. A few Dudes scattered throughout the other position groups and you win titles. Coaching at the college level can't be overlooked though. College football is a coaches game more than any league out there. Probably due to recruiting and development would be my guess. Bo Nix? I have been on the Nix band wagon from day one. The guy doesnt have the strongest arm in college football. He is not even the most accurate or fastest. But... Bo Nix is a baller. He is a leader. Cliche: men would run through brick walls for the guy. Nix would do the same for his guys. Just look at Utes game last year for proof. Bo has the experience, competitiveness and intelligence to carry Oregon to the promise land in 23'. He has command of the offense from LOS and the game has slowed for him at a level that only a few QB's have achieved. Nix is a special Dude with all the support he needs around him on both sides of the ball (potentially). He will be unbridled, giving him the freedom to QB this team to greatness. At every level, IMO, Duck Nation needs to set our sites on a NC trophy this year. Sure, there are reasons I could/should be pessimistic. But Oregon has talent and depth they haven't seen. And... Bo Nix!!! 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 3 Share Posted April 18, 2023 I enjoyed the article, but this is one time I disagree with my friend and writing colleague. He beat me to writing about this topic, but it turns out we have a different perspective on it--good. I'll give my take on this quote and a few other questionable lines by Coach Stein when my writing turn comes up next time on the schedule. This is a good topic to debate--love it and thanks David! 1 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake Moderator No. 4 Share Posted April 18, 2023 It will be interesting to watch Stein settle into the OC job at Oregon. He has a lot of talent on the offensive side of the ball, and he probably needs to put up a lot of points just to keep from being criticized because of that fact. There are questions that will need to be answered about Stein. Can he duplicate his previous success while having a talented Senior QB like Bo Nix? Will his offensive scheme get the ball into the hands of our talented players successfully? Can he develop young QB talent for the future? Can he recruit and attract QB talent to Oregon? Only time will tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tandaian No. 5 Share Posted April 18, 2023 If the Ducks have Nick Aliotti against tOSU in the title game, it would be a different game. Don Pellum was a terrible DC and he didn't put any pressure on Cardale Jones who was starting just his 3rd college game. I don't know if the Ducks win, but they certainly don't lose 42-20. 1 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 6 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 8:40 AM, cartm25 said: **Side note about the 2014 team against tOSU. Oregon was without their two best WRs and I think that had a similar impact to them as it did to Bama this year. Not that Oregon would have won for sure, but I think if the Ducks had their full compliment of offensive weapons, and kept the score closer, tOSU would have had to play differently, and wouldn't have been able to lean on their OL and Heisman-type RB so early in the game to drain Oregon. I did mention that Oregon was playing with a depleted roster but we were really badly bullied at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball that game. But in our revenge with a mediocre Cristobal scheme we beat Ohio State in their own house by running the ball down their throat. It goes to show you how players can make all the difference because in 2021 we were the bullies at the line of scrimmage. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 7 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 6:06 AM, Log Haulin said: Bo Nix? I have been on the Nix band wagon from day one. The guy doesnt have the strongest arm in college football. He is not even the most accurate or fastest. But... Bo Nix is a baller. He is a leader. Cliche: men would run through brick walls for the guy. Nix would do the same for his guys. Just look at Utes game last year for proof. Bo has the experience, competitiveness and intelligence to carry Oregon to the promise land in 23'. He has command of the offense from LOS and the game has slowed for him at a level that only a few QB's have achieved. Nix is a special Dude with all the support he needs around him on both sides of the ball (potentially). He will be unbridled, giving him the freedom to QB this team to greatness. At every level, IMO, Duck Nation needs to set our sites on a NC trophy this year. Sure, there are reasons I could/should be pessimistic. But Oregon has talent and depth they haven't seen. And... Bo Nix!!! From the sound of it Nix and Stein have gotten along great and are talking about the Xs and Os at a high level. I think Nix is an incredible example where scheme and a players ability when paired together can make all the difference in the world for how that player preforms. Nix has a completely different player when looking at his 2022 season compared to his 2020 and 2021 seasons. I do feel Stein is downplaying the importance of his role in order to highlight the importance of his players. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Waddler Moderator No. 8 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 8:40 AM, cartm25 said: Two things can be true at once: High-quality scheme/play-calling AND talent are both necessary to win at the highest level. Thought and action; cause and effect, are like the two sides of a coin: something like a marriage of opposites. You can’t allow one to get the upper hand on the other, or nothing seems to work right. Balancing scheme and execution is probably the most significant (and hidden) challenge facing any coach. Do that right, and everything seems to run smoothly. Let one get more important than the other, and you’re always scratching your head trying to figure what’s gone wrong. That’s why I think it’s important to understand who Stein’s comments were really directed at: his players. That’s his audience; not us. Oregon is undergoing a culture change based upon Lanning’s introduction of the Georgia ‘de-recruitment’ process. That’s a big installment requiring a tad more emphasis on the players’ responsibilities right now. It will eventually even out with scheme, but right now it’s all about getting in people’s’ faces. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 9 Share Posted April 18, 2023 Great take, David. Thank you. As to it being the players and not the plays see Lombardi, Vince. As to talent overcoming scheme spot on with your analysis of Oregon playing Ohio State for the title game. That Buckeyes team was loaded with guys like Joey Bosa still making waves in the NFL. 'AT' Georgia last season was another example of one roster being far better and deeper than another. But as Kirby Smart said post-game: Dan knows we have better players but he will get there at Oregon. AMEN! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 10 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 12:53 PM, David Marsh said: From the sound of it Nix and Stein have gotten along great and are talking about the Xs and Os at a high level. I think Nix is an incredible example where scheme and a players ability when paired together can make all the difference in the world for how that player preforms. Nix has a completely different player when looking at his 2022 season compared to his 2020 and 2021 seasons. I do feel Stein is downplaying the importance of his role in order to highlight the importance of his players. Nix had the benefit of playing for Dillingham, the best OC he had at Auburn, and from getting away from the Auburn/SEC/ legacy pressure cooker. I think he and Stein will be just fine if Terry can successfully rebuild the OL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 11 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 11:51 AM, Tandaian said: If the Ducks have Nick Aliotti against tOSU in the title game, it would be a different game. Don Pellum was a terrible DC and he didn't put any pressure on Cardale Jones who was starting just his 3rd college game. I don't know if the Ducks win, but they certainly don't lose 42-20. Nick may have helped the cause but Ohio State had, by far, a superior roster, and the Duck's best WR being busted for smoking dope and not having IFO really hurt the cause. Nick shut down the Auburn O but this was a much better and deeper Ohio State team that slipped in as the #4 Playoff seed and improved greatly during the season even when down to its 3rd string QB. The Ohio State OL punched the vaunted Bama DL in the mouth in the Sugar Bowl. Bama had Saint Nick and other quality coaches coaching the Tide D and it didn't matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 12 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 10:05 AM, Drake said: It will be interesting to watch Stein settle into the OC job at Oregon. He has a lot of talent on the offensive side of the ball, and he probably needs to put up a lot of points just to keep from being criticized because of that fact. There are questions that will need to be answered about Stein. Can he duplicate his previous success while having a talented Senior QB like Bo Nix? Will his offensive scheme get the ball into the hands of our talented players successfully? Can he develop young QB talent for the future? Can he recruit and attract QB talent to Oregon? Only time will tell. Great take. Dillingham had one of if not the best OLs in Oregon history in front of Nix. I agree with all of your points but I think the rebuild, or not, of the OL by Terry will be key this season Love that the 2023 schedule gives Oregon an opener against an FCS team at home before having to trip to Lubbock to play a motivated and talented Texas Tech team. Also likely helps that TT is on the road at Wyoming for its opening game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 13 Share Posted April 18, 2023 (edited) On 4/18/2023 at 11:40 AM, cartm25 said: @David Marsh - Thank you for writing about this. I was displeased when I heard Stein say this, so needless to say, I respectfully disagree with some of the points made in the article. But, none-the-less, I'm glad we get to discuss. As simple as I can put it, in the quest for excellence on the football field in both scheme and talent, I believe it's best to "walk AND chew gum" at the same time. Two things can be true at once: High-quality scheme/play-calling AND talent are both necessary to win at the highest level. In fact, I'm not sure we actually disagree. You gave two examples showing the importance of both talent and scheme, and then said that both are important. THAT I 100% agree with. Perhaps the words Stein used didn't reflect the message he wanted to, but I cringed when I heard him say that. It's fun for us to debate this type of topic, but IMO, a coach shouldn't even try and distinguish the importance between the two. Let's acknowledge that both scheme and talent are important--and necessary--and let's move forward with that as the goal; be exceptional at both. When I hear coaches say this type of stuff, it comes off as a built-in excuse for them to deflect blame . . . Like when Mari Cristbal constantly blamed players' lack of physicality, strength, toughness, execution for the consistently underperforming offense during his entire tenure. **Side note about the 2014 team against tOSU. Oregon was without their two best WRs and I think that had a similar impact to them as it did to Bama this year. Not that Oregon would have won for sure, but I think if the Ducks had their full compliment of offensive weapons, and kept the score closer, tOSU would have had to play differently, and wouldn't have been able to lean on their OL and Heisman-type RB so early in the game to drain Oregon. Man! I HATE tOSU!! - And I'm sure we agree on that, too Cart, in 2014, did you watch #4 seed Ohio State defeat #1 seed Bama in the Sugar Bowl playing with its 3rd string QB? That tOSU team punched Bama in the mouth and had more speed on the field than Bama. That Ohio State team was loaded and well-coached. Not the fraudulent undefeated FSU team that Jimbo brought to the Rose Bowl. Baylor or TCU deserved to be in the PO that season and in the Rose Bowl, far more so than FSU. But the PO Committee with a 4 team field will never bench an undefeated P5 team. Edited April 18, 2023 by Jon Joseph spelling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 14 Share Posted April 18, 2023 (edited) On 4/18/2023 at 10:28 AM, Jon Joseph said: Nix had the benefit of playing for Dillingham, the best OC he had at Auburn, and from getting away from the Auburn/SEC/ legacy pressure cooker. I think he and Stein will be just fine if Terry can successfully rebuild the OL. On the receiver side we also lost Devon Allen during the Rose Bowl game to a torn or strained ACL during a return. We also lost Pharaoh Brown against Utah with a life threatening injury. Then the previous spring we lost Bralon Addison to a torn ACL during Spring Camp. Moving Byron Marshall to WR in 2014 wasn't just cleaver to keep him on the field with the likes of Freeman and Tyner (who was also injured for most of the year) but also necessary because we were out of receivers. Edited April 18, 2023 by David Marsh 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 15 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 9:49 AM, David Marsh said: we were really badly bullied at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball that game. Over time, there are many narratives that are forgotten or invented about a game eight years ago. One benefit to having this site and doing some analysis myself, (and still having my marbles) is being able to pull up what really happened in a game. The play below was perfectly schemed for our defense, and a close game in the first half--got ugly by the end of the game because of it. And that bastard Urban Meyer purposely held back this play until the second half as he knew we were good at halftime adjustments. This is an example of fantastic play-scheme planning, and superb in-game tactics along with play-calling of which beat a good Oregon team. A prime example of how "plays" makes the difference over "players." An Ohio State Dagger to Oregon: The Counter Play FISHDUCK.COM This is an analysis of the Counter play that Ohio State used to defeat Oregon with in the college National Championship game. BTW...above is one of the most read articles in the 6,000 article history of FishDuck between Oregon fans, but in particular Ohio State fans lapped it up. I was fair in my analysis, and they appreciated that and opportunity to learn. 1 2 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethehiker No. 16 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 8:40 AM, cartm25 said: **Side note about the 2014 team against tOSU. Oregon was without their two best WRs and I think that had a similar impact to them as it did to Bama this year. Not that Oregon would have won for sure, but I think if the Ducks had their full compliment of offensive weapons, and kept the score closer, tOSU would have had to play differently, and wouldn't have been able to lean on their OL and Heisman-type RB so early in the game to drain Oregon. This is spot on. I'll never forget Oregon already up 7-0 on tOSU and absolutely rolling coming off the FSU game. Had to lean on freshman Charles Nelson who dropped a HUGE, wide open, 3rd down pass on the 2nd drive. That play always stuck out to me as our biggest missed opportunity and huge swing in momentum. Ohio St. went on to score the next 21 points and then played keep away from Oregon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 17 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 11:04 AM, Charles Fischer said: Over time, there are many narratives that are forgotten or invented about a game eight years ago. One benefit to having this site and doing some analysis myself, (and still having my marbles) is being able to pull up what really happened in a game. The play below was perfectly schemed for our defense, and a close game in the first two half--got ugly by the end because of it. And that bastard Urban Meyer purposely held back this play until the second half as he knew we were good at halftime adjustments. This is an example of fantastic play-scheme planning, and superb in-game tactics along with play-calling of which beat a good Oregon team. A prime example of how "plays" makes the difference over "players." An Ohio State Dagger to Oregon: The Counter Play FISHDUCK.COM This is an analysis of the Counter play that Ohio State used to defeat Oregon with in the college National Championship... BTW...above is one of the most read articles in the 6,000 article history of FishDuck between Oregon fans, but in particular Ohio State fans lapped it up. I was fair in my analysis, and they appreciated that and opportunity to learn. Great point and I would say there is an element at play that when everything is equal or close to equal that play calling and coaches making the right calls at the right time are the difference makers. In a lot of ways its the tie breaker. If talent and schemes are evenly matched then it comes down to the play calling to determine who will break first. I'm also a big fan of using an expansive playbook to force the other team to think. In football having players think on the field is a bad thing because they have to slow down to make a decision where if they know what they are supposed to do they just play fast and execute quickly. Having the right play calls can take highly talented players and slow them down with something they don't expect. I do think this is how Kelly and Helfrich managed to use the blur offense so effectively because not only did they go fast but they could often get the other team to second guess themselves and make mistakes because they are thinking. This can work great but the problem can come in when you play against better athletes who can afford to play slower or sloppier because they can make up for it with their sheer physical gifts. It is for this reason why a lot of highly rated players out of high school can become busts at the college level, all of the sudden they can't just rely purely on their physical abilities to make up for lack of technique or a deeper understanding of the game. I know at this point I am all over the place because I do feel that both play calling, scheme and players are all equally as important at the highest levels of the game. I also feel that Lanning and his staff also feel this way. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Haulin No. 18 Share Posted April 18, 2023 Player skill, scheme, play calling, game and clock management, injury and health, diet, sleep patterns, weather... What a wonderful game we are fans of! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocketchange No. 19 Share Posted April 19, 2023 Last year under Mr Lanning, Oregon had a recruiting class ranked #1 (4th year in a row) in the pac and #16 nationally in 2022 with a top tier offensive line. They lost to the beavers with #54 recruiting class in 2022, Washington ranked #95 nationally. Players certainly matter. So does coaching and practices. I don’t want to hear Oregon coaches saying players matter more than plays when they lost to the beavers and the huskies. Oregon failed to play up to the players talent last year and I would like to know what the coaches are doing to play up to to the players talent when have the #1 recruiting class in the pac for the last 5 years. Was Dillingham a better play caller than Cristobal? Yes, unequivocally. Has Lanning’s team played up to it’s recruiting ranking? I would say no. Is it the play calling, design of plays, or practice set up…. I don’t know. What I do know is with the #1 recruiting class in the pac, if the ducks lose, it is a coaching problem. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastBayDuckDad Moderator No. 20 Share Posted April 19, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 8:40 AM, cartm25 said: Side note about the 2014 team against tOSU. Oregon was without their two best WRs and I think that had a similar impact to them as it did to Bama this year. Not that Oregon would have won for sure, but I think if the Ducks had their full compliment of offensive weapons, and kept the score closer, tOSU would have had to play differently, and wouldn't have been able to lean on their OL and Heisman-type RB so early in the game to drain Oregon. I agree! Slightly off topic and not to dredge up bad memories, but if Stanford hadn't dropped the MM pass that would have resulted in a TD, putting Oregon up by two scores early, tOSU's game plan to dig out of that hole would have been much tougher. Throwing the ball was not the skill set of their 3rd string moose of a QB, but he could run like a Southern Pacific locomotive. Oregon absolutely missed not having Allen, Carrington and Pharaoh Brown in the NT game. Not to mention the loss of Ifo in the d-backfield. Oh, well, at least we have the 2021 smackdown of tOSU in the Horseshoe to gloat over. I only wish Oregon could have wiped the smug smile off sub-Urban Meyer's face instead of Ryan Day's. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundedknees No. 21 Share Posted April 19, 2023 On 4/19/2023 at 9:36 AM, cartm25 said: LOL, “Moose” is a great descriptor. That QB was a beast! when a QB can gain 3+ ypc by falling forward, it's a problem... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
