FishDuck Article Administrator No. 1 Share Posted August 7, 2023 FOX and Disney/ESPN control virtually all of college sports. The Pac-12 has failed to make a deal with either of these. As a result, the conference has disintegrated over the last few days. This has caused an unprecedented and seismic shift in the college football landscape. Mr. FishDuck set aside his study of NFL odds, and his NFL... How Fox and ESPN Dismantled the Pac-12 FISHDUCK.COM FOX and Disney/ESPN control virtually all of college sports. The Pac-12 has failed to make a deal with either of these. As a result… 1 1 3 2 5 Two Sites: FishDuck and the Our Beloved Ducks forum, The only "Forum with Decorum!" And All-Volunteer? What a wonderful community of Duck fans! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haywarduck No. 2 Share Posted August 7, 2023 Follow the money, well done once again Mr. Marsh. Greed ran the NCAA, and now capitalism is running college sports. Unfortunately blind greed ran the Pac-12, and then George was given a 'dead man's hand' in the poker game of college football. At least George comes away from the table with plenty of the houses money. I suppose the Pac should have hired Justin Bonomo, the greatest poker player of all-time. Maybe the Pac would have had a chance then, probably not. The best negotiator may have been Bill Walton. TV execs might have given in, if Bill would just shut up. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Haulin No. 3 Share Posted August 7, 2023 College football has been nationalized for years. It was just a matter of time before conference realignment took down more regional splits. With the advent of espn and later FOX sports, coupled with the NCAA abdicated their responsibilities to college athletics. A North and south split was inevitable. When It's all said and done, only two conferences will be left in major college sports. All driven by the money generated by football and a lesser extent BB. New smaller leagues will emerge. I hope they become gems in American culture. Not all great products have to have "Amazon" bloat. Ultimately we will have Northern football and southern football. I think it will still be a great product once the bugs get worked out. The NCAA would be wise to wrestle back some of the power Fox and espn have userped from college athletics. Doubt they have the stomach for it though. In the end it seems to be going the direction many wanted. NIL, transfer portal, expanded playoff and big media have all played a collective roll in bringing us... NFL LIGHT Stay tuned, this is far from over. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 4 Share Posted August 7, 2023 KUDOS! This a spot-on analysis. From the overview of a capitalist enterprise, Fox played this perfectly. Fox did not bid against itself. Fox waited to go after Oregon and UW after the Pac-10, with Fox sitting on the sidelines as David so correctly noted, came up with a crummy Pac-10 media deal, aided and abetted by George Kliavkoff fiddling while the conference burned. This patience allowed Fox to 'buy' the Northwest schools at a discount. A discount that will run through the 2031 season. I demur slightly at pointing the finger only at ESPN and Fox. When Oklahoma and a few other schools, including Georgia as one of the litigants, sued to end the NCAA's broadcast monopoly and with Oklahoma's triumph sustained in the mid-1980s by the Supreme Court, the floodgates were opened for media companies to take advantage of the decision and college football teams and their respective conferences, gladly opened their wallets to cash in. No one forced the schools to take the money, build Taj Mahal-like facilities, and pay college football coaches unheard sums of money. Then, the SEC commissioner, Roy Kramer, sold the ACC, B1G, B12, and Pac-12 on the idea that college football needed "One True Champion." The game went national and money if it had not done so already, ruled the college football roost. And the NCAA itself was most certainly not above the fray as it continued to expand the size of the basketball tournament so it could bring in millions of more dollars. We are told that once upon a time a man was offered the governance of and attendant riches from, being the King of all the principalities in the world. Although tempted, the man declined the offer. When you accept this kind of offer and gladly take the money and do all you can for more money, Airplane Conferences managed by media companies behind the scenes are the inevitable result. It's sad for the left behind schools. But in any capitalistic endeavor, there will be winners and losers. Viewed from the window of today's big-time college sports, I am so happy that Oregon agreed to pay a media future premium and to align itself with one of the two Power Conferences in the world of college athletics. Again David, thanks for the terrific and timely article. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kamikaze Kid Moderator No. 5 Share Posted August 7, 2023 Great article. I'd say the Pac itself also deserves much of the blame. USC has bumbled from one bad coaching higher to another and another for about fifteen years since Coach Pete left and has completely squandered the Pac's biggest name brand. UCLA has pretty much ignored football in that same period of time squandering the entire LA market. ASU has just been laying there like a wet rug for years squandering the Phoenix market. The fuskies have also been floundering around most of the last decade squandering the Seattle market. Cal and Stanford are as disinterested in football as can be which also squanders the bay area market. And let's not forget the snooze fest going on in the Denver market Colorado has been hosting the past decade. All the Pac has had to offer has been the Ducks working hard to create a national brand from a small college town and Utah climbing the Pac ladder from the middle of nowhere. How ironic that as the Pac is about to crumble, UW, USC and UCLA all of a sudden come back to life and rejoin the top 25 at the same time coming out of years of hibernation. Too little to late. If even half of these large market teams had put in as much work as the UO has this past decade, we wouldn't have been in this mess. And blaming the Ducks for giving up and just moving on is simply lazy. Look in the mirror Pac. You did this to yourself. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBrooks No. 6 Share Posted August 7, 2023 Sad but true? Apparently Gordon Gecko is alive and well at Fox and ESPN. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrw Moderator No. 7 Share Posted August 7, 2023 (edited) Money changes everything. Great article, David. It's the same consolidation process that has turned most areas of modern economic life into duopolies, if not monopolies. Our lives will be run by Amazon, Google and whichever media company survives. Edited August 7, 2023 by jrw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethehiker No. 8 Share Posted August 7, 2023 Great article! Unbelievable that the BIG 12 had no revenue sharing disincentive to keep badgering another conference I would like to understand more why CBS and NBC were never an option. We know they pay for SEC, Notre Dame, and the NCAA basketball tournament. They could have brought both linear and streaming options to the table with CBS/Paramount and NBC/Peacock. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 9 Share Posted August 7, 2023 North Beerchug State? I love it but more to the point and in full support of David's excellent article, see point #1 below. https://collegefootballnews.com/cfn/whos-left-for-the-sec-college-football-is-business-5-expansion-thoughts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 10 Share Posted August 7, 2023 Superb article David, and the worst part of it all for me? The company that effectively destroyed the Pac-12, Fox, we now will have to embrace, watch their telecasts and soak up their adulation. 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 11 Share Posted August 7, 2023 A part I cut from this article, which was originally about double it's final draft, the PAC-12 made a gigantic mistake with their network where they didn't have a media partner. It didn't give Fox or ESPN any stake in the conference and as a result it put a target on the PAC. It was a conference ripe for raiding and that is what happened. The big 12 in all of this has played the puppet superbly well. They get hit first and then see their new overlords as their saviors and do their bidding. Also... I think Canzano and Wilner did have a good idea about what was being said in the pac-12 circles... But what was being said in those circles was far from reality. The big 12 pundits seemed to know more what was going on at the end of the day. Was Fox and ESPN dropping them some info as to what was going on behind closed doors? Remember Fox at least was hanging around at the negotiationijg table for a long time in all of this. No evidence on that last point but it has made me wonder. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 12 Share Posted August 7, 2023 On 8/7/2023 at 12:29 PM, mikethehiker said: Great article! Unbelievable that the BIG 12 had no revenue sharing disincentive to keep badgering another conference I would like to understand more why CBS and NBC were never an option. We know they pay for SEC, Notre Dame, and the NCAA basketball tournament. They could have brought both linear and streaming options to the table with CBS/Paramount and NBC/Peacock. Likely because CBS and NBC knew by following Fox's lead if could get Oregon and UW at a discount. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 13 Share Posted August 7, 2023 On 8/7/2023 at 2:19 PM, David Marsh said: A part I cut from this article, which was originally about double it's final draft, the PAC-12 made a gigantic mistake with their network where they didn't have a media partner. It didn't give Fox or ESPN any stake in the conference and as a result it put a target on the PAC. It was a conference ripe for raiding and that is what happened. The big 12 in all of this has played the puppet superbly well. They get hit first and then see their new overlords as their saviors and do their bidding. Also... I think Canzano and Wilner did have a good idea about what was being said in the pac-12 circles... But what was being said in those circles was far from reality. The big 12 pundits seemed to know more what was going on at the end of the day. Was Fox and ESPN dropping them some info as to what was going on behind closed doors? Remember Fox at least was hanging around at the negotiationijg table for a long time in all of this. No evidence on that last point but it has made me wonder. However, in 2018 ESPN offered to buy and operate the Pac-12 Network and sign the Pac-12 on for a 12-year media deal. Pac-12 leaders (?) demurred and Larry kept his multi-million dollar network CEO salary in place. I doubt that ESPN was going to pay a premium for the network but I do think that ESPN would have returned each school's investment and the network would have had 'varsity-like' coverage and be up on every available cable outlet. (Neil Everett might still have a World Wide Leader job.) Distributions from the network would have met and likely exceeded the network projected revenues. And in 2018, ESPN was in a financial position not only to acquire the network but also to pay a healthy price for the conference's Tier 1 media rights. USC could have again received a bigger piece of the media pie and the Pac-12 is not RIP. Another example of See Foot, Shoot! You reap what you sow and don't sow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontrollonshobbas No. 14 Share Posted August 7, 2023 On 8/7/2023 at 11:02 AM, Charles Fischer said: Superb article David, and the worst part of it all for me? The company that effectively destroyed the Pac-12, Fox, we now will have to embrace, watch their telecasts and soak up their adulation. It just dawned on me that this now means MORE Gus Johnson, not LESS. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Rocks No. 15 Share Posted August 7, 2023 Excellent article. You are right, they didn't want the Pac to survive. A conference that has withstood over a hundred years meant nothing. It makes me sick and the NCAA as usual did nothing. I get tired of being manipulated by large corporations that do not care about anything but their bottom line. I feel for the fans and the athletes, the next few years are going to be tough. It's sad to see all the traditions and rivalries just fly out the window like they mean nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cacker Guy No. 16 Share Posted August 7, 2023 On 8/7/2023 at 6:22 AM, Wrathis said: David, thanks for writing this. It's what I feel like I've been screaming since this whole fiasco of dominoes started. We, convinced we needed the money and exposure to stay relevant, have played right into Fox/ESPN's hands. While there are plenty here (and elsewhere) that believe this is a good thing, the thing I keep asking myself is "Do Fox/ESPN have our best interest at heart, and if not, then why would we do exactly what they want us to do?" It's like all of the negative things we said this move would cause the L.A. schools just suddenly disappeared when we applied the move to ourselves! I 100% feel like we, partnering with an outlier in Apple+, would have been helping create a 3rd player in the market of college football, while still helping hold a beautiful tradition together (and helping ourselves by keeping the easiest path to the playoff alive). Instead we've actually helped Fox/ESPN consolidate power to themselves, essentially creating a 2 party system akin to our own political system...and we all know how well that's worked out so far. In the end we might have been fighting against something that was gonna win out regardless, but it's not in me to just fold b/c odds are stacked against us. I firmly believe SDSU and SMU, given a chance, would have followed the path laid down by Utah and the Beavs and made our conference better and stronger over the time of the Apple contract. Now it feels like we've capitulated against the eminent domain of big media and let them take our home just bc they wanted it. I could be wrong in all of this, and I know that Fox/ESPN, Larry Scott and Carol Folt along with the university presidents carry much of the blame, but I can't help feeling like we carry some of it as well...That being said, Go Ducks and Go PAC! Wrathis, I'm with you 100% on this. I think everyone panicked when the Apple deal had no linear component, so there would be insufficient national "exposure." Possibly true, but I'm not so sure the Apple deal was so terrible. I wish it would have been explored more. I think we were totally duped by Fox/ESPN. Half share?!! Are you kidding me? I hate it for every sport but football, and I'm not sure it will be good for football. In the final rankings last year we were sixth in of the 2024 B1G in football. That doesn't make the playoff in my opinion. And I don't think we will rise any higher. I just don't. I hope so but I fear it won't happen. Likely my sadness at this has destroyed my optimism. I wish our school would have had the guts to stand up to Fox / ESPN, give them the finger, and stay in the PAC and be at the forefront of the new technology. But our new president (who took office one month ago and came from the B1G) is not from the west and has no fealty to the PAC. Even if it cost us a couple million. We don't need another $2 million -- that's 1% of the athletics budget. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tandaian No. 17 Share Posted August 7, 2023 Cacker Guy, Phil Knight doesn't have an endless supply of money. The deal we know about said the PAC was getting 200 mil as the base and if targets were met, would get more. While every other conference had way higher base yearly incomes. If the B1G/SEC are making 60-80 mil for the next 6 years and the PAC is making 20 mil, how long does anybody expect them to survive that major budget deficit? That isn't 2 million, that is 40 to 60 million per year for 240 - 360 million after 6 years. Nobody can survive that and expect to stay "equal". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 18 Share Posted August 7, 2023 On 8/7/2023 at 11:30 AM, Jon Joseph said: However, in 2018 ESPN offered to buy and operate the Pac-12 Network and sign the Pac-12 on for a 12-year media deal. Pac-12 leaders (?) demurred and Larry kept his multi-million dollar network CEO salary in place. I doubt that ESPN was going to pay a premium for the network but I do think that ESPN would have returned each school's investment and the network would have had 'varsity-like' coverage and be up on every available cable outlet. (Neil Everett might still have a World Wide Leader job.) Another failure of Larry. It might jt have been enough to keep USV and UCLA but the network was a liability and not a potential shield. The B1G and SEC networks were stepping stones for Fox and ESPN respectively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cacker Guy No. 19 Share Posted August 7, 2023 (edited) Tandaian, for the next five years what I read from UW is that they will average $32/year. Starts at $30 M and increases $1 M per year. The Apple deal counteroffer was $25 M with incentives that would bring the amount to $28 M I think after the first quota is met. Plus an opt out after 3 years. So $30 M minus $28 M is $2 M. Yes, I'm assuming the first subscription bonus kicks in. Possibly wrongly. And I must agree that being in the B1G is almost undoubtedly more lucrative for the NEXT media deal cycle IF the current landscape remains similar. My point is that most are assuming the money difference between B1G and Apple is enormous, and I'm not sure that it would be. In addition, the difference is not a high percentage of the athletics budget. I believe the UO athletics budget is around $180 M (see fiscal year 2022 report). So the amount of money we get by joining the B1G is -- in my opinion -- not worth the extra travel, the hardship to student-athletes, the dissolution of a grand old conference and for many the demise much of what we like about college football. College football is obviously big money. But reducing revenue by 1 or 2% is doable. Just don't reupholster the seats in the jet. I'm sure it is better financially to join the B1G. But by how much? And what is the cost to athletics as a whole? I wanted UO to do something heroic, to put our fingers in the dike. But alas, most heroes meet an untimely demise anyhow... Edited August 7, 2023 by Cacker Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 20 Share Posted August 7, 2023 It also comes down to exposure and availability to Oregon football; do I want it primarily streaming, or most on TV for now? Streaming or the Fox Big-10 match of the week versus Michigan with all the hype? Our audience with B1G is going to get massive! If they build more seats at Autzen from private donors...that millions of extra revenue is directly tied to the B1G alignment. It will be a big difference, and again--I was going to make the best of where ever we end up. Minor sports are going to get hosed in travel though...but they would have also been hosed with the Big-12. 1 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cacker Guy No. 21 Share Posted August 7, 2023 (edited) On 8/7/2023 at 1:40 PM, Charles Fischer said: Minor sports are going to get hosed in travel though...but they would have also been hosed with the Big-12. This is what bothers me. I feel for all the athletes who play minor sports. I love following track & field, women's basketball and softball, and they will definitely suffer from the travel. On 8/7/2023 at 1:40 PM, Charles Fischer said: It also comes down to exposure and availability to Oregon football; do I want it primarily streaming, or most on TV for now? I don't have cable and I prefer streaming but I'm probably unusual in my demographic (almost 70.) TV is probably better exposure for now, but I wonder what it will be like in 2 or 3 years... Edited August 7, 2023 by Cacker Guy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tandaian No. 22 Share Posted August 7, 2023 The "Olympic" sports are going to the short end of the stick. My thoughts would be to have the west coast teams have groups of road games for other sports and to stay a week. This way they wouldn't have to fly coast to coast every week. It would mean staying in hotels or VRBO, but that would be better than flying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceaniaDuck No. 23 Share Posted August 7, 2023 (edited) Excellent article. Everything that was said but I also believe the dismantling process of the PAC-12 began when USC was placed under excessive and unreasonable sanctions by the NCAA for the so-called Reggie Bush scandal. Love them or hate them, I believe USC was dealt an unfair hand. I did actually read the NCAA report, and the impression I got was the investigation was more about bringing down USC football rather than following the spirit of NCAA rules and regulations. Couple that with the investigation being conducted by Paul Dee, who ironically ran one of the dirtiest college football programs at the time, and IMO the integrity of the investigation was questionable. In the early 2000s. USC was a juggernaut, and was elevating all of West Coast football at the time creating a truly fascinating bi-coastal dynamic. But the horribly misguided sanctions against USC obliterated this resurgence and sucked all the air out of the room outside of the SEC. PAC-12 football has just never really been the same afterwards. Don't get me wrong, I love my Ducks, but like it or not, USC served as one of the main flag-bearers of the PAC-12 conference, and a good USC football team was also good for the entire conference. Edited August 7, 2023 by OceaniaDuck 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 24 Share Posted August 7, 2023 On 8/7/2023 at 4:01 PM, David Marsh said: Another failure of Larry. It might jt have been enough to keep USV and UCLA but the network was a liability and not a potential shield. The B1G and SEC networks were stepping stones for Fox and ESPN respectively. Yes. And Jim Delaney's' idea about forming a network dedicated to one conference was laughed out of the college football world room. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 25 Share Posted August 7, 2023 On 8/7/2023 at 4:29 PM, Cacker Guy said: Tandaian, for the next five years what I read from UW is that they will average $32/year. Starts at $30 M and increases $1 M per year. The Apple deal counteroffer was $25 M with incentives that would bring the amount to $28 M I think after the first quota is met. Plus an opt out after 3 years. So $30 M minus $28 M is $2 M. Yes, I'm assuming the first subscription bonus kicks in. Possibly wrongly. And I must agree that being in the B1G is almost undoubtedly more lucrative for the NEXT media deal cycle IF the current landscape remains similar. My point is that most are assuming the money difference between B1G and Apple is enormous, and I'm not sure that it would be. In addition, the difference is not a high percentage of the athletics budget. I believe the UO athletics budget is around $180 M (see fiscal year 2022 report). So the amount of money we get by joining the B1G is -- in my opinion -- not worth the extra travel, the hardship to student-athletes, the dissolution of a grand old conference and for many the demise much of what we like about college football. College football is obviously big money. But reducing revenue by 1 or 2% is doable. Just don't reupholster the seats in the jet. I'm sure it is better financially to join the B1G. But by how much? And what is the cost to athletics as a whole? I wanted UO to do something heroic, to put our fingers in the dike. But alas, most heroes meet an untimely demise anyhow... Having just watched B1G Now with the positive continuing coverage of adding in Oregon and UW makes me even more certain that the Northwest schools made the right call. Come 2031, the new B1G deal will be off the financial charts and Oregon will be getting a full slice of a huge media pie. Apple has all the money in the world and yet Apple ground down the Pac-10 because it wasn't willing to step up and pay a reasonable amount to run a college sports beta site. And the deal had a 3-year life if the projections needed to get a return on par with the B12 with nowhere to go after 3 years if the Pac-10 canceled out. Why would Oregon and UW, given a choice, not pass on this for the security that comes with being a member of the Power 2? Why would Oregon trust GK and his friends to put together a better deal three years from now? Certainly, I respect your POV but for Oregon to pass on this opportunity would be on par with the senseless business decisions and non-decisions made under the reign of Larry and the Captain of the Larry Team, Michael Crow. I am so happy that Crow will now be in Oregon's rearview mirror. I'm also happy that Oregon will be in a conference where SC is not driving the bus. Many of the medals heroes win are granted posthumously. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cacker Guy No. 26 Share Posted August 7, 2023 On 8/7/2023 at 3:09 PM, Jon Joseph said: Why would Oregon and UW, given a choice, not pass on this for the security that comes with being a member of the Power 2? I agree, Jon, that this was the safer, more secure deal. I was hoping UO and UW would take a chance on the Apple deal for the sake of the minor sports, and preserving the PAC. And the whole regionality of college football. I admit my desires are more sentimental than practical and fiduciary. Somewhat akin to the Angels not trading Ohtani. Gutsy, but probably a bad move. On 8/7/2023 at 3:09 PM, Jon Joseph said: Many of the medals heroes win are granted posthumously. Yes, this is what I meant! I admit under the conditions of a week ago, the B1G appeared to be a much better long term (10 years plus) option. Nevertheless, as an ex track (as well as football) athlete, it bothers me that these decisions are made solely for football. I wish that football conferences could be separate from the other sports to help preserve some regionality in the minor sports. But that is another can of worms. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 27 Share Posted August 7, 2023 On 8/7/2023 at 3:09 PM, Jon Joseph said: ...for Oregon to pass on this opportunity would be on par with the senseless business decisions and non-decisions made under the reign of Larry and the Captain of the Larry Team, Michael Crow. I am so happy that Crow will now be in Oregon's rearview mirror. I had not thought of it this way...but we no longer have our fate decided by three proven losers as Pac-12 Commissioners. (Don't forget the guy before Larry, Tom Hansen!) We now put our fate with the B1G Network, CBS, NBC, Fox and more--it feels better already, and I did not anticipate feeling like this. 2 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 28 Share Posted August 7, 2023 Lots of intelligent people will be doing all they can to limit non-revenue sports travel east and west. One thing we know is that tech has taken away much of the need to be in a classroom live for a lecture. This is where ironically, I guess, streaming will come in to help the cause. You can bring the classroom with you on a laptop. I can envision Oregon and UW baseball and softball teams sharing a charter, with tutors on board, and traveling to say, Happy Valley, Pennsylvania for a week of round-robin games vs Penn St, Rutgers, and Maryland. And the same type of travel west for B1G teams located in the east. Ditto for golf, softball, volleyball, and other sports. Fortunately, Oregon and Washington will not have to worry about ice hockey travel. Everything that can be done will be done to accommodate non-revenue sports athletes and to assure Title 9 compliance. And the non-revenue athletes will have the opportunity to perform on a far bigger stage which could translate into significant NIL income. You are now selling your NIL coast-to-coast and not just on the west coast. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cacker Guy No. 29 Share Posted August 7, 2023 On 8/7/2023 at 4:42 PM, Jon Joseph said: Lots of intelligent people will be doing all they can to limit non-revenue sports travel east and west. I hope you are right, Jon. Maybe the B1G can hire you to consult on this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lownslowav8r No. 30 Share Posted August 8, 2023 (edited) Excellent article. Without access to the linear sports media oligopoly (Fox and ESPN) in the Apple contract, Oregon was not going to stay in the PAC if they had options that gave them linear media rights. If you are trying to grow your market presence you can’t rely on subscriptions. Only people who already know you will buy a subscription. The destruction of the PAC is an object lesson on why monopolies and oligopolies are so destructive to markets and the quality of life. Google “greedflation” for a primer on another way you are paying for the concentration of economic and political power. Edited August 8, 2023 by lownslowav8r Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lownslowav8r No. 31 Share Posted August 8, 2023 On 8/7/2023 at 4:19 PM, Charles Fischer said: we no longer have our fate decided by three proven losers as Pac-12 Commissioners I think if Fox and ESPN had treated fairly with PAC we would have done very well with our contract . Wilner talked about where the blame should be placed and presidents and commissioners definitely played a role. The PAC might have avoided being in a weak place but once there we were vulnerable to Fox’s market manipulation. Will be interested to see if antitrust legal action against Fox and ESPN will occur. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 32 Share Posted August 8, 2023 On 8/7/2023 at 7:48 PM, Cacker Guy said: I hope you are right, Jon. Maybe the B1G can hire you to consult on this? I doubt that this will happen, I have a hard time counting past 12! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 33 Share Posted August 8, 2023 On 8/8/2023 at 1:02 AM, lownslowav8r said: I think if Fox and ESPN had treated fairly with PAC we would have done very well with our contract . Wilner talked about where the blame should be placed and presidents and commissioners definitely played a role. The PAC might have avoided being in a weak place but once there we were vulnerable to Fox’s market manipulation. Will be interested to see if antitrust legal action against Fox and ESPN will occur. Good thought but 'capitalism' and 'fairly' do not belong in the same sentence. This is all on terrible leadership from the top down for close to two decades. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDuck No. 34 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Fish: It also comes down to exposure and availability to Oregon football, do I want it primarily streaming, or most on TV for now? Streaming, or the Fox Big-10 match of the week? Exactly correct. If the Pac members had accepted the purgatory of streaming on Apple, they would have been completely out of the conversation each season, and their value would have DROPPED even further before the next round of media contracts. For UO/UW it would have meant even smaller shares percentage wise if the B1G still wanted them. Further, for UO/UW to act now, it keeps the B1G from extending those slots to ACC teams. I really don't understand all the handwringing. UO/UW correctly saw the downsides of waiting. Act now, at a discount. Or wait, for an even bigger discount or no offer at all. And, during the interim, how many of us believe the Pac-12 is suddenly going to have a smarter commissioner and smarter presidents? And, UO's recruiting would sustain at a high level with a streamer? Or, that coaches wouldn't bail out for easier recruiting, better opportunities, elsewhere? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tandaian No. 35 Share Posted August 9, 2023 I was listening to John Canzano yesterday, 8/8/23, and he talked to a PAC president about the TV contract fiasco. It really does look like some shady stuff went down. The president said the PAC wanted to get a TV done early, but FOX said nope, we have exclusive negotiations until October 7th, 2022. FOX dragged their feet and nothing got done. Then on 10/30/22 ESPN and FOX finalized their deal with the Big 12. ESPN said they had no more money for the PAC. It really looks like FOX orchestrated this whole thing. I wonder what type of legal action OSU, WSU, Stanford and Cal have? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 36 Share Posted August 9, 2023 On 8/9/2023 at 9:10 AM, Tandaian said: I was listening to John Canzano yesterday, 8/8/23, and he talked to a PAC president about the TV contract fiasco. It really does look like some shady stuff went down. The president said the PAC wanted to get a TV done early, but FOX said nope, we have exclusive negotiations until October 7th, 2022. FOX dragged their feet and nothing got done. Then on 10/30/22 ESPN and FOX finalized their deal with the Big 12. ESPN said they had no more money for the PAC. It really looks like FOX orchestrated this whole thing. I wonder what type of legal action OSU, WSU, Stanford and Cal have? Yep! But ESPN did have some money for the Big 12 as the Big 12 has a contract with both media companies. Just like the pac-12 does for another year. This all smells fishy... And this is just from the outside. I have no insider knowledge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 37 Share Posted August 9, 2023 On 8/7/2023 at 6:54 PM, Cacker Guy said: I agree, Jon, that this was the safer, more secure deal. I was hoping UO and UW would take a chance on the Apple deal for the sake of the minor sports, and preserving the PAC. And the whole regionality of college football. I admit my desires are more sentimental than practical and fiduciary. Somewhat akin to the Angels not trading Ohtani. Gutsy, but probably a bad move. Yes, this is what I meant! I admit under the conditions of a week ago, the B1G appeared to be a much better long term (10 years plus) option. Nevertheless, as an ex track (as well as football) athlete, it bothers me that these decisions are made solely for football. I wish that football conferences could be separate from the other sports to help preserve some regionality in the minor sports. But that is another can of worms. The same thought that Chip Kelly expressed the other day. A different affiliation for football and men's basketball while keeping the non-revenue sports local. But with the current broadcast model, there seems to be no way to accommodate a structure that seems to make more sense; especially, for the athletes. But with NIL, I have to question my own thought. NIL deals are being signed by athletes across the board and not just signed by football and men's basketball athletes. How many non-revenue sports athletes will benefit from being able to market their NIL coast-to-coast with a bigger platform to sell from including better coverage by a conference network? From Oregon's position as a junior member, it is a positive for the new B1G media deal to expire in 2031 and not in 2034. Any media deal longer than 7 years is a thing of the past. Ask FSU. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 38 Share Posted August 10, 2023 Today in Canzano's article there were some very interesting tidbits about the whole process. I know many just dislike Canzano but he did go over how the media deal was managed, and just how badly managed it all was that doesn't come as a shocker to anyone. The short version is that there was a group out together to get a deal and they did actually get a 30 mil deal out of ESPN but didn't take it last fall because they thought they could do better. After that ESPN became unhelpful. There was poor communication from this group to anyone. Canzano's sources were always those on the university side of things and they were told a whole lot of misinformation from the sound of it and they admit that now. Also it looks like Fox was pretty much disrupting the whole process. So I feel pretty good about my article which is built on public information and the public narrative as I don't have any inside sources. Plenty of mismanagement on the pac-12 side of things but after one offer, that they should have taken, the two biggest companies in this whole process had no interest in keeping the conference around. If you can access the Canzano article it is an interesting read as to some of the behind the scenes chaos. Canzano: 'The gun was empty': The downfall of the Pac-12 Conference WWW.JOHNCANZANO.COM A tale of hubris and hollow promises. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tandaian No. 39 Share Posted August 10, 2023 That is a subscription article. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 40 Share Posted August 10, 2023 On 8/10/2023 at 10:27 AM, Tandaian said: That is a subscription article. Yes... I gave the summary of the really interesting bits though. So hopefully that gives you a little something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDuck Moderator No. 41 Share Posted August 10, 2023 Who’s to blame for college football conference realignment chaos? Here are top candidates. Realignment chaos has roiled college football again, for better or worse. So who's to blame for it? Here is a list to start. Arizona State President Michael Crow recently tried to explain why there has been so much sudden instability and change at the highest levels of college football. After 45 years in the Pac-12 Conference, his school announced last week it was joining the Big 12 in 2024, along with three other Pac-12 schools in another unsettling wave of realignment. "There are a lot of forces at work, including the overlords of the media empire that are out there that were driving a lot of this," he said. But who exactly and why? USA TODAY Sports came up with a short list of power brokers whose leadership and decisions facilitated this, for better or for worse, and then reached out to them to see whether they wanted to discuss it publicly. None said they did. What did they do? As a result of their actions − directly or indirectly – the once-glorious Pac-12 has nearly disintegrated, leaving huge fan bases on the West Coast abandoned by longtime peers in favor of more money from television companies, along with more cross-country trips for athletes in other sports across three time zones. On the other hand, the Big Ten Conference now is adding Oregon, Washington, Southern California and UCLA to expand to 18 teams for 2024, part of a strategy to deliver more big games and growth for some of the game’s biggest brands. Here is who deserves credit (or blame) for it. Who’s to blame for college football conference realignment chaos? Here are top candidates. WWW.USATODAY.COM Realignment chaos has roiled college football again, for better or worse. So who's to blame for it? Here is a list to start. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
