Ducks Offense: Klemm’s Entire Line Gone and Lost Forever?

[Charles Fischer]

Some good things to ponder from this...an article from DazeNconfused!

 

Ducks Offense: Klemm's Entire Line Gone and Lost Forever?

FISHDUCK.COM

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Oregon escaped Lubbock, Texas with a hard fought 38-30 win over the Texas Tech Red Raiders, but the unit that was the heart and soul of the Ducks last year was…

 

...but the unit that was the heart and soul of the Ducks last year was MIA. Oregon’s offensive line that was one of the best in the nation last year, is now a major concern and possibly a limiting factor to their success this season. What happened to cause this collapse of performance you might ask?

[Jon Sousa]

We'll see what the O-line produces over the next couple of weeks. I think we will see improvement throughout the year.

[Babyjesus615]

This article actually puts into words, pretty accurately, the struggles with the run game that we saw last Saturday. We saw Bucky be his normal shifty, explosive self, but had to work much harder to do it. I will give Cristobal his due, he did develop a road grating OL, which Klemm inherited and expanded upon.

 

Without veteran leadership and knowledge (A'lique Terry's first OL coach post), I assume this is going to be a learn on the job season; we unfortunately cannot expect to see the same kind of production at the O Line as we've seen in past seasons.

 

It actually speaks volumes about Will Stein's coaching chops if he was able to recognize the weak link and adjust the entire offensive play-calling scheme to compensate; and still get the rest of the team to pick up the slack in the second half!

Edited September 15, 2023 by Babyjesus615
Grammar

[Ben H]

Seems like Klemm is getting a ton of credit for an offensive line loaded with dudes with a ton of game experience and that had worked together.  If memory serves me correctly, that road grading line got stuff on some 4th and shorts that probably cost us at least one game so they weren't automatic.  

 

I think a 2 game sample for a new offensive coordinator and new line lineup that is still being formed is way too early to come to all these conclusions.  If we can't run the ball consistently halfway through the season, then maybe we should again long for the Klemm days.  I actually love what I hear coming from the line and how they talk about culture and standard and they all seem to like A'lique Terry.  

 

I think the untimely penalties impacted the run game by getting them in bad yard and down situations.  I still want to see a greater sample size.

[Jon Joseph]

Thank you, DNC, terrific take.

 

I also recall the OL under Mario and his crew struggling to put away Fresno and Stony Brook. Far too often under Mario, the team including the OL played down to the competition. See, ASU.

 

I'm definitely on board with you in regard to the game at Ohio State. But a 1-point Rose Bowl win over a 3-loss team with one of the now top NFL QBs leading the way? 

 

OL is a ballet. Lots of new guys were on stage in the 1st true game of the year in Lubbock. And as expected, the hostile crowd contributed to lots of OL miscues. It's a long season and we are only 2 games in if you count the 1st game against the junior, junior, varsity.

 

I expect the OL play will improve during the course of the 2023 season. I expect the run game will materially improve this Saturday. I for one am not ready to count out the OL and the Ducks run game. 

 

Again, thanks for the great take.

 

 

[Log Haulin]

I believe the O line will be better than average. This is a highly talented room playing for the first time together.

 

I look at this TT game as the 1st game. PSU doesn't really count. First game out for the most difficult and important position group on the offensive side of the ball. 

 

Give it some time and this unit will be a great unit. Ducks have three games and a bye week before this group sees real talent outside of TT very stout Dline.

 

Duck fans are funny. In the PSU game prediction, we had PSU scoring 11.5 pts on avg. They scored seven and many wanted Lupoi fired and Lanning run out of town. 

 

The O line will be fine. TT game was a brutal game. Oregon wasn't focused. The atmosphere was crazy. TT has a very good front seven. Lubbock is similar to the Palouse. And as said...1st true game.

 

Ducks and this O line will come together and when they do, look out. Going to be a great season.

[Charles Fischer]

Oh, my friend DazeNconfused!

 

I love how we chop up the games, but this is one time that I am in significant disagreement with you--which is rare.

 

First...our recollection of the Cristobal rushing era is quite different.  I will not pull up ALL the articles I wrote during that time, but the bottom line is that rushing yardage dropped significantly from the Chip Kelly/Helfrich/Taggart years to Cristobal.  He changed the offense, and the blocking schemes in a big way.  He wasted an offensive line that sent four to the NFL, (recruited by Steve Greatwood) but again--that discussion is for another time.

 

Please look at the rushing yards cited in this article...

Has Cristobal's "Physical" Offense Worked? Will It?

FISHDUCK.COM

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ve never heard as much about "a tough culture" or "being physical" from any coach at Oregon as I have from Coach Mario Cristobal. There was a feeling of…

 

Second...it was reported by another analyst that some of the "Toss" plays were recorded as passes by the TT stats guy.  So, since I am media credentialed--I looked up the official play transcript the AD sent me to see.  There are three plays recorded as passes that were clearly under-handed tosses to the running back when I went back and looked at every single 'pass' to a running back.  We all know the difference between an overhand flair pass to a running back, versus an underhanded toss where you also have offensive linemen pulling.

 

Those three plays totaled an additional 39 yards, which brought the rushing total from 113 to 152 yards rushing for the game.  Still not great, as I look at 200 yards as the measuring stick of a "good" rushing game.  But still--it was not quite as bad as it initially appeared, and it was adequate as a balance to keep the passing attack working.

 

Their interior defense was MUCH better than I anticipated....they were STOUT.

 

Third...Lanning acknowledged in an interview that, "I thought our efficiency in some runs was really good, and our efficiency in other runs was really bad. And I thought they (Texas Tech) had a great game plan for a lot of our primary runs. (Plays) You know, we've had a lot of success in the past with our counter plays. I thought they had some good schematic answers for that."

 

So, our opponent had a ton to do with it as well, I have to salute their big defensive tackles, and their plan to stop our favorite run plays.  Perfect practice for us to prepare for later in the season...

 

Fourth...Oregon anticipated trouble with their defensive line and our game plan was to run outside often with the toss plays, the wheel routes and the flair passes to wear them out.  We did not run inside much by design, IMHO.

 

Fifth...this is a completely different group of players that Adrian Klemm would have had to deal with as well.  We cannot be certain that he would not have had the same first-real-game mistakes and jitters that Coach Terry dealt with. The O-Line players last year too, are a reason for last year's success, and that 2022 group was super, and they are GONE.  I think it is unreasonable to expect even Coach Klemm to duplicate last year's success in just the second game for this new group, IMHO.

Oregon scored on this inside running play...

 

Sixth...Oregon averaged 38 points per game last year--and we equaled that in Lubbock, thus not a step down on offense as you predicted, thus far.  While a TD came from the defense--last year's scoring included defensive TDs as well.  This was pretty good considering how difficult that environment was, and again...perfect practice before going to Seattle and Salt Lake City.

 

Seventh...this is really a one game window, and I believe it is too early to draw conclusions yet.  I do believe very strongly that this group will improve, and both Lanning and Terry have voiced that confidence as well.

 

Fun to watch for in upcoming games!

[HappyToBeADuck]

DNC, great to read another article from you.....hope you are doing well.

 

Too early for me to draw a conclusion on the O Line, especially after 1 real game.

 

Also difficult to compare this line, who are playing their first real game together and at the beginning of their journey, against a great unit playing in their 4th, 5th and 6th seasons together. Those big boys were at the end of the journey.

 

This thread has some loaded comments and is full of comnents that require some deep thought and perspective.

 

Let me throw this out for comment:

 

In the first 42 minutes of this game, after watching the game 3 times, Stein had control of the throttle. Except for 3 Bird Bomb attempts, with 1 hitting for a TD, Stein was not allowing Bo to open up the offense.

 

With 3 minutes left in the 3rd, Bo used his legs, arm and experience to take over the Duck O.

 

Once Bo ran a few times, he had TT on their heels and overcame a 27-18 deficit to lead 31-30. He did this because the O Line kept him clean, upright and safe. IMHO the Duck O line performed.

 

Bo left TT with about a minute to try and score. It took the Duck D but a few seconds to seal the win and then close it out.

 

DL, Stein and these gritty, talented players did what Texas and Oklahoma could not do, beat TT in Lubbock last year. That should have us reaping praise on a team playing together, on the road, bringing home a win.

 

Is there room for improvement? Yes.

 

The next 3 opponents our Duck offense should roll. The huskies will be the next true measuring stick. If O line can't move people at will, well then it may be time to reassess.

 

Go Ducks.......

[Mic]

On 9/15/2023 at 2:12 PM, HappyToBeADuck said:

The next 3 opponents our Duck offense should roll. The huskies will be the next true measuring stick. If O line can't move people at will, well then it may be time to reassess.     Go Ducks.......

That's a lot to respond to and I won't attempt it.  I'll just ask the question "might we be underestimating Colorado here a bit"? I know what a lot of very smart people are saying about the Buffalos but I also know what I've seen on the field from them so far.  I think Oregon wins, but in a close shave from a very confident, very well-prepared and very well-motivated team, likewise loaded with talent.

 

What's this all got to do with the thread?  If the Offensive line has success against Colorado they will have earned it.  This will be no gimme, imho.

[Jon Joseph]

Roll against CU? I think that this is selling this CU team way short. And perhaps, selling the Ducks pass D too high?

 

9/30 at Stanford, agreed.

 

10/14 at UW? And the game after at home vs. WSU will not be a layup. 

 

No easy day in the Conference of Quarterbacks in 2023.

[HappyToBeADuck]

Well, let me clarify that I text that the offense should roll the next 3 opponents........

 

IMHO, the Ducks O is more lethal than TCU's offense. They should and will need to score 45 points plus to beat the Buffs. 38 points and the Ducks will lose.

 

Not certain what the Duck D will do against the Buffs Offense. The Buffs offense brings much to the table and will present a serious challenge to the Ducks D. They will have their hands full against the Buffs.

 

No disrespect to Prime and his squad. They can beat our Ducks unless the Ducks win all 3 phases of the game. Should be one hec of a game.

 

My confidence in our D grew in Lubbock because they got better as rhe game proceeded. They were the stronger team in the 4th quarter.

 

Ask yourself, besides last years Utah and WSU games, when was the last time since 2019 that the Duck D dominated the 4th quarter and won the game for the Ducks......

 

Great topic DnC and awesome comments on the thread 

 

Go Ducks......

[David Marsh]

I wouldn't declare the sky falling yet but I am not saying I don't have my concerns. 

 

1. Last year's line had some big time veteran power to it. We have replaced 4.5 starters this year. I give the .5 to Harper as he does have some starting expirence with injuries last year. So lots of youth that needs to work together. Sure we have Cornelius who started elsewhere but he didn't stay with this offensive line. 

 

2. Waiting on injuries... will this be the final version of our offensive line? Nope... we have a few transfers who are healing from injuries, will they best out the starters? Maybe... but they'll add depth. 

 

3. Texas Tech did sell out to stop the run... which is why the slants and other passes were there. 

 

If the offensive line looks bad against Hawaii, Colorado or Stanford without any improvement I'll start to worry. 

 

Just not quite yet. 

[AnotherOD]

The OL has been fortunate over the last several season it has had groups that have largely came in together (or within a season), and had a year to work together as a second unit, then largely played together for several seasons.

 

The Throckmorton/Lemieux/Hansen/Aiello group came in and redshirted together before becoming a core group of OL that played together (along with some other guys: Sewell, Crosby, Womack, etc.) for four seasons.

 

Their final season (2019), Oregon had Alex Forsyth, Ryan Walk, Aumavae-Laulu, George Moore, and Steven Jones all together as a second unit. They added JC Bass for 2020, then essentially formed another unit that played together in 2020, 2021, and 2022.

 

I don't know how one pencils such a thing too much better.

 

This season, we have a kid who was playing for Rhode Island last year, a kid who was a true freshman last year and mostly played in goal line packages, Steven Jones, who missed most of the year with injury, Jackson-Powers, who has played well when not banged up his first two years as a rotational guy (about 600 snaps and three OL starts); and, Marcus Harper, who started 10 games and played solidly last year largely filling in for Jones.

 

I agree with the posts suggesting it may take several games for this unit to gel (I don't think it even was completely together for spring with injuries and late transfers).

 

(As noted in other posts, it hasn't helped that Angilau appears to not yet be recovered from the injury that kept him out at Texas last year; and, Strother, who had been largely healthy at ECU, hasn't been available for his first two games as a Duck as well).

 

[Mic]

Another item to consider is penalties.  It's impossible to overstate how devastating offensive penalties (like was seen the TT game) are to an offense.  Likewise, defensive penalties.  

 

Without looking past the Rainbow Warriors, penalties like we saw in the TT game could very well make the difference between beating the Buffs conclusively or losing to them narrowly.  It strikes me that the very nature of Colorado is one the Ducks can ill afford to give any free 1st downs to - or have any subtracted from when Oregon is on offense.  

 

It'd be a pity if it came down to penalties instead of execution and performance.  Hawaii gives the Ducks a chance get that cleaned up.  I think I've said enough on that.  GO OREGON - BEAT THE RAINBOW WARRIORS!

 

[Ducko]

I agree.  The offensive line play was not even average.  3 points in the 3rd quarter, 0 points in the third and a win garnered by 2 interceptions.  113 total rushing yards. I believe it was 53 less than Tech.  
 

But I also see this as a season long problem. For those that don’t think Colorado and every other team now won’t run an aggressive defense attacking the O line in every game, you going to be disappointed.  While the O line for years has been the Duck strength it is now considered one of their their weaknesses along with D.

 

After watching that game my frustration grew on both sides of the ball and it appears that Lanning does not believe in firing assistants that are not getting the job done. So we hope they miraculously get better on their own.

 

So after the Hawaii game it’s anyone guess.  I personally believe that Colorado has better assistant coaches, is better on offense, defense and special teams.  Where do you fans see a weakness in Colorado football?  I would not call them great but considering the transition from last year they are very good.

 

I do not believe Oregon with Tosh coaching the “D”, mediocre special teams play and now an O line everyone will target Oregon can beat Colorado. I would love to be wrong.
 

 

[Triphibius]

Thanks to DNC for introducing this topic, and to all for the lively discussion.

 

My observations, for what they are worth: 

 

1. PFF grades (as reported by 24-7 sports) were good for JPJ and the tackles.

2. My sense as I watched was that De Ruyter had achieved some sort of schematic advantage, to which Stein adjusted somewhat belatedly but effectively with the swing passes. DL later confirmed this. 

3. My impression is that the tackles performed very well in pass protection. 

4. Some of the problems with the run game were caused by the frequent penalties. Conerly admitted to being nervous. He is talented, but 19-20 years old. Experience will bring improvement, most likely. 

 

Tentative conclusions: 

 

1. Offensive line play takes time to develop, and it is still early. 

2. Stein may have been outcoached for much of the game, but did eventually make a schematic adjustment. 

3. If the current starters are not delivering enough push, it may be time to give "Poncho" a shot. 

[Charles Fischer]

On 9/16/2023 at 5:47 AM, Ducko said:

113 total rushing yards. I believe it was 53 less than Tech.  

Wrong.  You did not read my post at the beginning of this thread where I clarify this.

[Solar]

On 9/16/2023 at 8:22 AM, Triphibius said:

Thanks to DNC for introducing this topic, and to all for the lively discussion.

 

My observations, for what they are worth: 

 

1. PFF grades (as reported by 24-7 sports) were good for JPJ and the tackles.

2. My sense as I watched was that De Ruyter had achieved some sort of schematic advantage, to which Stein adjusted somewhat belatedly but effectively with the swing passes. DL later confirmed this. 

3. My impression is that the tackles performed very well in pass protection. 

4. Some of the problems with the run game were caused by the frequent penalties. Conerly admitted to being nervous. He is talented, but 19-20 years old. Experience will bring improvement, most likely. 

 

Tentative conclusions: 

 

1. Offensive line play takes time to develop, and it is still early. 

2. Stein may have been outcoached for much of the game, but did eventually make a schematic adjustment. 

3. If the current starters are not delivering enough push, it may be time to give "Poncho" a shot. 

Agreed.

I commented in the real time game thread our OL was dominant the first few drives.

DeRuyter loaded the box, stemmed like heck and the OL got overwhelmed and gave up leverage and aggression.

 

I will say Klemm said last year he had to reteach the OL how to block. Presumably that meant teaching them how to best move laterally.

 

Terry is a Cristobal disciple.

 

This is all a little premature to declare our OL as bad for 2 halves of innefective play against a loaded box from a solid defense.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Solar