NCAA Does Away With 25 New Player Limit

[Steven A]

Previously, pre-covid, schools had a maximum of 25 new players each year.

 

Click on the following to see the article.

 

Now, each program will be bound only by the total scholarship limit of 85.

 

 

 

[DanLduck]

Let the portal be open!!

 

Apparently alot more coaches liked what Sanders did at CU than are willing to speak up.

 

I guess now the flood of transfers will really take off. And I'm sure we can expect more tampering claims.

 

Oh well, it is what it is. I'll just have to buy a program each year to know who our players are.

[Mic]

Am I the only one out here that hates these mass-transfers, team to team, yearly?  I'm not against a reasonable number of transfers - Lord knows Oregon has certainly benefitted from the portal with Bo Nix and others, but how does a coach build teamwork and loyalty if players are moving in and out yearly?  How do the fans?

 

I know, I'm probably a minority but the CFB with NIL and mass Transfers is morphing itself into mercenary minor league for the NFL.  It's not there yet, but it seems to be heading there and gaining steam,.  I sure hope I'm wrong but amateurism seems to be dying on the vine.

 

GO DUCKS.

[Steven A]

Except, aren't they re-instating the 1 year sit-out rule except for grad transfers?

[Jon Joseph]

The Prime Time Rule?

 

Get your sunglasses ready!

[mikethehiker]

On 10/5/2023 at 10:51 AM, Mic said:

Am I the only one out here that hates these mass-transfers, team to team, yearly?

You're not the only one.  And it's nothing like the NFL where players are under contract and there are salary caps.  The mandatory 1 year sit-out must be restored with the exception of graduate transfers (like Bo Nix) or transfers to a FCS.  I also support a 1 year sit out for head coaches to other D-I programs.  What's good for the players is good for the coaches.

 

The unfortunate part of the new NIL and transfer portal anarchy is that I believe it will greatly reduce the parity brought on by the 85 player scholarship limit.  College football will never achieve NFL-like parity, but it had a much greater chance when coaches recruited right, built cohesive units over 3-4 years, and took advantage of rebuilding years for perennial power houses.

[candyduck]

So I'm curious when athlete/student was more important than student/athlete?  Most of these kids will never sniff the NFL but a "free" education is invaluable.  The thing that bothers me about Deion's overhaul is many of these kids who went to Colorado for an education knowing full well they had no chance at the NFL are now in orbit.  I have no idea how former buffs players found new homes but I'm guessing they won't be getting the same education they went to CU for in the first place. 

 

I get it's about the money but maybe the presidents and ads need to be reminded these kids are students first.  I don't care what Deion has done at CU for wins and loses.  I care about the kids he ran away.  Btw High Freeze took over a dumpster fire at Auburn and has the same record as Deion and very well could've beat Georgia but hasn't received the fanfare.  I'll take someone growing the program from within than someone bullying people out to bring your "team" in.

[QuackyQuack]

On 10/5/2023 at 6:27 PM, candyduck said:

The thing that bothers me about Deion's overhaul is many of these kids who went to Colorado for an education knowing full well they had no chance at the NFL are now in orbit.  I have no idea how former buffs players found new homes but I'm guessing they won't be getting the same education they went to CU for in the first place. 

To be fair, players that were cut had their scholarships fully guaranteed at CU if they decided to stay. Not sure how many players actually stayed after getting the boot. Not a bad deal if you were a backup long snapper on a 1-11 team lol. 

[David Marsh]

On 10/5/2023 at 9:19 AM, DanLduck said:

Apparently alot more coaches liked what Sanders did at CU than are willing to speak up.

Every coach is doing it now. 

 

Sanders was the most high profile coach to do it at scale. 

 

Riley gutted his roster at USC and filled it up with the portal as well. Lanning even gutted and rebuilt this last season. 

 

Though in truth the portal has uncontrollable losses, sure coaches push players out  , but a lot of players just leave because they want to. I'm pretty sure that Lanning and company would have been happy to hold onto Donte Thornton but he left and they needed to go fill the spot. 

 

I hate the idea of more lost recruiting rules... but it has to change with the other rules.in place. 

[candyduck]

On 10/5/2023 at 8:42 PM, QuackyQuack said:

To be fair, players that were cut had their scholarships fully guaranteed at CU if they decided to stay. Not sure how many players actually stayed after getting the boot. Not a bad deal if you were a backup long snapper on a 1-11 team lol. 

 

[candyduck]

I did not know that.  Thank you for the clarification!  But how does that work for scholarship limits?  Gotta be expensive for the institution.

[OregonDucks]

While I agree that the transfer/portal rules need to change, there is some benefit to programs that recruit players who they can develop and learn your culture and system. Plug holes with the transfer portal but always look to recruit and develop your own talent, first. 
 

I’m not sure that USC and Washington are built for the long term since they gave prioritized the portal over high school recruiting. 

[David Marsh]

On 10/5/2023 at 9:08 PM, candyduck said:

I did not know that.  Thank you for the clarification!  But how does that work for scholarship limits?  Gotta be expensive for the institution.

Expensive yes... but I do feel it is fair. It wouldn't effect the scholarship limits because they aren't with the team. It's no different than a medical retirement in that regard but it's just no the players choice. 

[David Marsh]

On 10/5/2023 at 9:44 PM, OregonDucks said:

While I agree that the transfer/portal rules need to change, there is some benefit to programs that recruit players who they can develop and learn your culture and system. Plug holes with the transfer portal but always look to recruit and develop your own talent, first. 
 

I’m not sure that USC and Washington are built for the long term since they gave prioritized the portal over high school recruiting. 

It all comes down to how they use the portal. USC, Washington and Colorado all want to use the portal to get the best players they can get... usually skill players. Which is admirable. 

 

But the portal has only a few of the absolute best recruits that every big program is after... high quality linemen. Oregon has really prioritized linemen that they want. Sure USC got a good defensive linemen from Georgia... or at least precieved good, Lanning didn't go after him so that says something I feel. 

 

Good and big linemen are difficult to recruit as high schoolers and expensive to get from the portal but personally I feel that going after linemen is probably the most important get out of tje portal. You can't teach big and that was on full display against Colorado. 

[Jon Joseph]

On 10/5/2023 at 3:18 PM, mikethehiker said:

You're not the only one.  And it's nothing like the NFL where players are under contract and there are salary caps.  The mandatory 1 year sit-out must be restored with the exception of graduate transfers (like Bo Nix) or transfers to a FCS.  I also support a 1 year sit out for head coaches to other D-I programs.  What's good for the players is good for the coaches.

 

The unfortunate part of the new NIL and transfer portal anarchy is that I believe it will greatly reduce the parity brought on by the 85 player scholarship limit.  College football will never achieve NFL-like parity, but it had a much greater chance when coaches recruited right, built cohesive units over 3-4 years, and took advantage of rebuilding years for perennial power houses.

Yet, CFB seems to have more parity in 2023 than at any time in the last decade+. The Portal, and NIL, have a lot to do with this. Without NIL, Bo would have left for the NFL at the end of 2022. 

 

Restrictions on player movement like we see in the NFL will not happen before the arrival of a CFB Players union. Given the choice of a top high school recruit or a player who has already played college football, why would you not opt for the portal player? (No OL recruit that DL recruited in 2023 could match the play of Cornelius at OT this season. And Cornelius moved up from the FCS.)

 

Now, the NCAA has eliminated the 25 new player cap in a given year. A rule change that will enable more playoff picking akin to what we have witnessed from Prime Time.

 

Yes, there is a bargained-for and agreed-upon with the union salary cap in the NFL. (See union comment above for a team salary cap being enforceable in CFB.) There is no NIL cap in the NFL. The players, as do college athletes today, own their NIL. 

 

If you do want more control of player transfers and a cap on what a school can spend on a player in portal 'free agency,' then you better be ready for official NFL Lite with a reduced number of schools playing big-time CFB, an HS draft, and all of the other indicia that goes with being a professional league.  

[Jon Joseph]

To wit:

 

How NIL, transfer portal have surprisingly brought some much-needed talent parity to college football - CBSSports.com

WWW.CBSSPORTS.COM

---

Sure, the game still has its behemoths, but the riches are being spread out

 

[David Marsh]

On 10/6/2023 at 10:14 AM, Jon Joseph said:

To wit:

 

How NIL, transfer portal have surprisingly brought some much-needed talent parity to college football - CBSSports.com

WWW.CBSSPORTS.COM

---

Sure, the game still has its behemoths, but the riches are being spread out

 

I think at this point we still have yet to fully understand how high the ceiling for a transfer portal team can be.

 

In truth I think we may be pretty close to understanding just how high they can go. I think it might take a few more years. Colorado did something amazing with their roster turnover as they went from a  1 win team last year to trippling that by mid season this year and I think they may get another win or two... getting to 6 might be tough..

 

Colorado also gave USC quite the scare which is a long way from where they were last year. 

 

But... Colorado couldn't compete with Oregon which is built very different. 

[Mic]

On 10/5/2023 at 6:27 PM, candyduck said:

I get it's about the money but maybe the presidents and ads need to be reminded these kids are students first. 

I think you just nailed it candy.  The players are now seen as $ potential for the university.  If not, they're getting there fast.  But then, CFB has been slowly sliding that direction for several decades now and is just picking up steam.  

 

I wanted to root for Louisville last night to beat Notre Dame, (and did) but a lot of the luster went off when I learned 25 players and virtually all of the staff were brought in wholesale this season.  It's no different than an NFL team changing owners, firing the coaching staff and swelling the team with free-agents, only worse because the wholesale change-over in the NFL is partially held in check via player contracts.

[Charles Fischer]

How else is a smaller team in a sparse geographic area, (like Oregon) lacking in resources, or a losing brand, (as Colorado had) supposed to compete with all the big elite teams?  Their recruiting of high school players is what keeps them elite, and those players are not available to most teams.

 

Thus the portal is a great equalizer, where a good coach can turn things around quickly and compete with elite teams as Oregon has done with Dan Lanning. Like most--I did not see all the beneficial aspects of the portal that we Duck fans are experiencing.

 

And what about the players? 

 

Trey Benson was never going to break through the log-jam at running back at Oregon with CJ Verdell and Travis Dye ahead of him.  So he transfers to Florida State and had over 200 total yards yesterday, thus he had a new opportunity to play and show his talents.  Ditto for Khyree Jackson who was not a starter at Alabama, but now is flourishing into a true potential NFL Draft pick at Oregon.

 

If I choose to look at the negative--I could go the route that you are.  But when I look at the positive aspects for the football programs, and the players themselves--there is a lot to like.

 

Transfer Tysheem Johnson has played

more snaps than any Oregon defender.

[David Marsh]

On 10/8/2023 at 9:53 AM, Charles Fischer said:

How else is a smaller team in a sparse geographic area, (like Oregon) lacking in resources, or a losing brand, (as Colorado had) supposed to compete with all the big elite teams?  Their recruiting of high school players is what keeps them elite, and those players are not available to most teams.

 

Thus the portal is a great equalizer, where a good coach can turn things around quickly and compete with elite teams as Oregon has done with Dan Lanning. Like most--I did not see all the beneficial aspects of the portal that we Duck fans are experiencing.

 

And what about the players? 

 

Trey Benson was never going to break through the log-jam at running back at Oregon with CJ Verdell and Travis Dye ahead of him.  So he transfers to Florida State and had over 200 total yards yesterday, thus he had a new opportunity to play and show his talents.  Ditto for Khyree Jackson who was not a starter at Alabama, but now is flourishing into a true potential NFL Draft pick at Oregon.

 

If I choose to look at the negative--I could go the route that you are.  But when I look at the positive aspects for the football programs, and the players themselves--there is a lot to like.

 

Transfer Tysheem Johnson has played

more snaps than any Oregon defender.

The picture you added to your post also has Tyler Shough in it. MC and co basically said to him that Brown was going to take his starting spot.

 

The more I look at it the more it feels like a complete missplay from the staff at the time. They benched their guy for a transfer who was good but I think Shough would have been better if given the proper support. 

 

But that was the Cristobal era and proper support probably wasn't ever going to materialize. 

 

Shough found a home at Texas Tech and when not insured he has thrived there. 

[Desert Duck]

On 10/6/2023 at 11:14 AM, Jon Joseph said:

To wit:

 

How NIL, transfer portal have surprisingly brought some much-needed talent parity to college football - CBSSports.com

WWW.CBSSPORTS.COM

---

Sure, the game still has its behemoths, but the riches are being spread out

 

 

I love this article. IMHO, by far Dodd just nails it here. About the only thing I disagree with is where he says, "Athletic socialism has emerged with everyone sharing in the spoils."

 

I'd argue that what we're seeing here is clear abject capitalism, with the NCAA (equivalent of the government) now operating at an essentially laissez-faire mindset, while allowing the market to dictate.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Desert Duck

[Mic]

On 10/8/2023 at 10:32 AM, Desert Duck said:

 

I love this article. IMHO, by far Dodd just nails it here. About the only thing I disagree with is where he says, "Athletic socialism has emerged with everyone sharing in the spoils."

 

I'd argue that what we're seeing here is clear abject capitalism, with NCAA (equivalent of the government) now operating at an essentially laissez-faire mindset, while allowing the market to dictate.

Something about "athletic socialism" strikes a wrong chord with me, too.  

 

However, I cannot say that I like the idea of the regulatory body of collegiate athletics (NCAA) behaving like a government agency any better.  Amateur Athletics.  That's what it once was and what I (as an observer only) wish it could remain always.  But nothing remains the same always - except human nature I suppose.  

 

They may as well change the name to something akin to NCFL: National Collegiate Football League; align it more closely with the NFL.

[Desert Duck]

On 10/8/2023 at 11:48 AM, Mic said:

Something about "athletic socialism" strikes a wrong chord with me, too.  

 

However, I cannot say that I like the idea of the regulatory body of collegiate athletics (NCAA) behaving like a government agency any better.  Amateur Athletics.  That's what it once was and what I (as an observer only) wish it could remain always.  But nothing remains the same always - except human nature I suppose.  

 

They may as well change the name to something akin to NCFL: National Collegiate Football League; align it more closely with the NFL.

 

I'm with you. And there are things about NIL that I'm less than excited about. But at this point, I think it may end up proving be the lesser of several evils. 

 

[Mike West]

On 10/5/2023 at 10:51 AM, Mic said:

I know, I'm probably a minority but the CFB with NIL and mass Transfers is morphing itself into mercenary minor league for the NFL.  It's not there yet, but it seems to be heading there and gaining steam,.  I sure hope I'm wrong but amateurism seems to be dying on the vine.

I don't think you're in the minority, and it's understandable to feel the way you do.

 

I personally believe amateur football at the college level ended in the eighties.  I knew enough football players- studious and not even close - that talked about the time commitment required to excell at the college level.

 

If you don't spend thirty hours a week on football, it doesn't matter how much talent you have, you will not excell.  Football is far more complex than people give it credit for. 

 

Think of The Thompson.  The guy is Justin Herbert ability wise.  He doesn't have the mental aspect down.  Not until this year at least.  I can name ten things he needs to work on, and I believe those ten things would work.

 

But that requires a massive time commitment. I kid you not.  He has to break habits he's developed.  The kind of drills to build muscle memory alone would take fifteen hours a week.  He has enough raw ability that it would be worth the time.

 

Steve Stephens IV and Jamal Hill are two more that require removing old  habits ( they don't compensate for their lack of speed, so they are nearly always behind the "curve").  

 

Imagine what coaches have to do with each player.  It's time consuming.  Stevens and Hill play too much to ignore.  They need skill building drills to overcome their physical deficiencies.  

 

That all requires extra time. That's called being a pro.  If you want to be good, and I'm talking just college level good, you're going to work your butt off.  

 

Coaches implement systems that require tons of time to  think through.  Repetition is required to the degree you don't think about it anymore.  Instinct arrives from experience. 

 

Then you get a Chip Kelly that alters the landscape ( at present, several young coaches are changing the game), and you must adjust your thought process.  

 

Coaches and Analysts have to present, then scheme those alterations midseason.  Imagine the whirlwind of thoughts kids go through each week.  Rules of engagement change, etc.  

 

You are not going to play relaxed if you're not prepared.  If you're wondering if you're looking at semi pro football, you are.  These kids are damn near professionals already. 

[Log Haulin]

On 10/8/2023 at 1:42 PM, Mike West said:

I don't think you're in the minority, and it's understandable to feel the way you do.

 

I personally believe amateur football at the college level ended in the eighties.  I knew enough football players- studious and not even close - that talked about the time commitment required to excell at the college level.

 

If you don't spend thirty hours a week on football, it doesn't matter how much talent you have, you will not excell.  Football is far more complex than people give it credit for. 

 

Think of The Thompson.  The guy is Justin Herbert ability wise.  He doesn't have the mental aspect down.  Not until this year at least.  I can name ten things he needs to work on, and I believe those ten things would work.

 

But that requires a massive time commitment. I kid you not.  He has to break habits he's developed.  The kind of drills to build muscle memory alone would take fifteen hours a week.  He has enough raw ability that it would be worth the time.

 

Steve Stephens IV and Jamal Hill are two more that require removing old  habits ( they don't compensate for their lack of speed, so they are nearly always behind the "curve").  

 

Imagine what coaches have to do with each player.  It's time consuming.  Stevens and Hill play too much to ignore.  They need skill building drills to overcome their physical deficiencies.  

 

That all requires extra time. That's called being a pro.  If you want to be good, and I'm talking just college level good, you're going to work your butt off.  

 

Coaches implement systems that require tons of time to  think through.  Repetition is required to the degree you don't think about it anymore.  Instinct arrives from experience. 

 

Then you get a Chip Kelly that alters the landscape ( at present, several young coaches are changing the game), and you must adjust your thought process.  

 

Coaches and Analysts have to present, then scheme those alterations midseason.  Imagine the whirlwind of thoughts kids go through each week.  Rules of engagement change, etc.  

 

You are not going to play relaxed if you're not prepared.  If you're wondering if you're looking at semi pro football, you are.  These kids are damn near professionals already. 

I agree, college football hasn't been amateur for decades. Look at the size of the modern day coaching staff, the assistance, nutritionist,  strenth and conditioning, recruiting support and on and on. Look at the hours these staffs put into it just to stay competitive. 

 

To call it amateur is laughable. The mountains of cash alone is mind blowing. 

[Mic]

On 10/8/2023 at 1:42 PM, Mike West said:

If you're wondering if you're looking at semi pro football, you are.  These kids are damn near professionals already. 

All your points are very well-taken and you are 100% correct because the game as we knew it once (30+ years ago) has completely changed.  There's little time left of studies if the athlete must put in the work to become elite and get noticed - leading to higher "earnings" potential.  The better, more publicized athletes seemingly are semi-pro now.  I guess the goal is to get more of them onto some sort of "payroll" - in the interest of "fairness".  Or at least an opportunity to do so.  'Earnings', 'payroll'.  Yep, semi-pro.  It's inevitable I suppose.

[Mike West]

The problem with it all is kids aren't graduating.  That's a problem given thousands of them aren't going to continue playing.

 

Maybe they need another year.  They already have a twenty hour limit with the program, but I'd like to see more graduates, in fields they can earn a decent living at. 

 

It would be a shame to see them get access to world class facilities, and pretty good treatment, them drop to something far less because they didn't get a degree.

 

I don't mind the time they put in, heck most of them are putting a decent product on the field.  I do think they should get paid, but maybe a deferral until they graduate may be a better policy.

 

The Big Ten is already considering a NFL style compensation package for players.  I'm not too keen on that given the kids are too young in my opinion to some degree.  

 

I used to be all player, but now, players from other sports are going to be effected.  They deserve something too.  They spend lots of time at their craft.  

 

It's tricky.  So much money is going to football now, it's crazy.  

[Log Haulin]

On 10/10/2023 at 4:29 AM, Mike West said:

would be a shame to see them get access to world class facilities, and pretty good treatment, them drop to something far less because they didn't get a degree.

Do student athletes lose access to scholarship availability once athletic eligibility has expired? If so, maybe extending the scholarship availability up to a doctorate would be made available. A time after athletics to really focus on education