Herbert Article Confirms: QB Coaching at Oregon was "a Luxury"

[Charles Fischer]

This is a very informative article about Justin Herbert and confirms some fears we had about his coaching at Oregon...

 

From the Article:

But Herbert’s mechanics did cause some problems at Oregon. Beck says the Ducks coaching staff was more concerned with their young quarterback playing with a clear head rather than overcoaching his mechanics. Ideal footwork was seen as a luxury rather than a necessity, and getting Herbert prepared for Sundays wasn’t their biggest priority. They were trying to win games—and having their ultra-talented quarterback play loose was the best way to do it.

 

“[Oregon] had footwork that they had set up within their system, but it was more of a frame of reference,” Beck said. “There weren’t nailed-down specifics … the coaches knew how talented he was, and they didn’t want him to get hung up on those throws. It was always, ‘Just let it go, Justin. Go get the next one. It’ll be fine.’ But he had a desire to know why he wasn’t making those throws.”

 

 

[Jon Joseph]

I'm shocked!

[Charles Fischer]

On 10/11/2021 at 1:06 PM, Jon Joseph said:

I'm shocked!

 

OK...that is the shortest post ever that has made me laugh!

 

                       Other than cat GIFs...

[Haywarduck]

If you recruit well enough you don't have to develop talent, right?

[David Marsh]

Maybe things have changed since Moorhead? Probably not. 

 

Herbert was QB under Helfrich, Taggart and 2 years of Cristobal with Arroyo. 

 

The mental component is a big deal... though mechanics do help settle the mental as well. Knowing that your body will just do the things and do the things right keep you from over thinking a lot of the game. 

 

Also... Herbert had more problems with receivers not catching the ball that hit them in the chest or in stride than getting the ball to them. 

[deschutesduck]

On 10/11/2021 at 2:07 PM, David Marsh said:

Also... Herbert had more problems with receivers not catching the ball that hit them in the chest or in stride than getting the ball to them. 

 

I always felt like, and it's understandable, that Herbert didn't trust most of his targets at Oregon so he was more hesitant than he is with the Chargers.

[David Marsh]

On 10/11/2021 at 2:18 PM, deschutesduck said:

 

I always felt like, and it's understandable, that Herbert didn't trust most of his targets at Oregon so he was more hesitant than he is with the Chargers.

He trusted Mitchell but that resulted in Mitchell getting a season high in yards for Oregon receivers and a problem with opposing defenses just putting double or triple teams on him because he was the only big time threat.

 

JJ III looked decent and was improving in 2019 to help Herbert out. Breeland was a big target until he went down with an injury in 2019. 

[DanLduck]

That was a great article on JH. Thanks for sharing it. 

Not getting "coached up" is a pretty harsh statement I think. Justin had 3 different head coaches. 3 different offense's to learn. 3 different OC's.

And he was drafted in the first round. Yes, the 3rd QB taken, but going to the Chargers was a blessing. 

 

As I've read here more times than I can count, it's all about W and L. So having a head coach be concerned about getting wins is a bad thing? Maybe he needed to be encouraged to play "loose" for his best potential. 

 

Brady wasn't even taken in the 1st round, don't qb's improve their game in the NFL? At least the good ones.

 

Seems like all these kids have their own personal coaches anyway. Maybe too many voices can mess a kid up. Like with golf, you don't want to be thinking too many thoughts on that back swing!

 

It does seem however, that Oregon is not "quarterback U". It would appear that finding a qb guru could be a good thing, but I believe most colleges could use one.

[Haywarduck]

In college is all about picking the rights kids, developing those student athletes, and putting them in the right position, spot to succeed.

 

At Oregon we seem to be obsessed with picking the most sought after kids. The question is do we develop them, and put them in the right spot to reach their potential.

 

Herbert isn't a great example of any of those metrics. He was extremely lightly recruited, and afterthought by the coaches who couldn't recruit. He then wasn't developed, many said he was the best qb as soon as he came on campus for fall camp, he didn't show up for spring camp. He was also always a qb so his position was never a question.

 

I have little doubt he wasn't coached too much, he came to the program as an elite talent, luckily. Each of these coaching groups had a lot bigger problems than coaching a future NFL star. 

 

I hope one of these young qb's is getting developed into a future star. If not, it will be the downfall of the Cristobal, much like Helfrich, you have to have a qb who can perform. The native are restless and the only thing which will calm them is a qb who can sling it, and soon.

[nw777b]

I have a hard time believing the coaches didn't coach JH on footwork or that they let "bad" footwork slide during countless hours of practice.

 

He had Helfrich, Yost, and Arroyo. All 3 are highly regarded. And Justin is brilliant and a quick learner. 

[DuckUp1]

Great article Charles! Thank you.

Justin truly is made for the NFL. Every trait you would want in your QB Justin has. He literally is the best representation of Oregon. 

He led us to a 12-2 season and a Rose Bowl win with bad mechanics and sloppy footwork?? Can you imagine if they had figured this out before he left? 

[woundedknees]

On 10/11/2021 at 2:50 PM, DanLduck said:

That was a great article on JH. Thanks for sharing it. 

Not getting "coached up" is a pretty harsh statement I think. Justin had 3 different head coaches. 3 different offense's to learn. 3 different OC's.

And he was drafted in the first round. Yes, the 3rd QB taken, but going to the Chargers was a blessing. 

 

As I've read here more times than I can count, it's all about W and L. So having a head coach be concerned about getting wins is a bad thing? Maybe he needed to be encouraged to play "loose" for his best potential. 

 

Brady wasn't even taken in the 1st round, don't qb's improve their game in the NFL? At least the good ones.

 

Seems like all these kids have their own personal coaches anyway. Maybe too many voices can mess a kid up. Like with golf, you don't want to be thinking too many thoughts on that back swing!

 

It does seem however, that Oregon is not "quarterback U". It would appear that finding a qb guru could be a good thing, but I believe most colleges could use one.

Helf had his shortcomings (I know, UNDERSTATEMENT of the decade!), but he definitely could get more out of a QB than some give him credit for.

 

I wish Costa had been able to have a more protracted playing experience... I believe he might have been part of the answer.

[C J]

Wow.........a lot more is making sense. We hypothesized but didn't have this kind of analysis and perception from a great QB coach like John Beck.

 

Now the question is what is being done to mitigate this problem? Or is it just getting worse?

[Jon Joseph]

On 10/11/2021 at 4:19 PM, Charles Fischer said:

 

OK...that is the shortest post ever that has made me laugh!

 

                       Other than cat GIFs...

 

I was just kittens around. LOL back at you, love the flying fur balls.

[Jon Joseph]

On 10/11/2021 at 5:50 PM, DanLduck said:

That was a great article on JH. Thanks for sharing it. 

Not getting "coached up" is a pretty harsh statement I think. Justin had 3 different head coaches. 3 different offense's to learn. 3 different OC's.

And he was drafted in the first round. Yes, the 3rd QB taken, but going to the Chargers was a blessing. 

 

As I've read here more times than I can count, it's all about W and L. So having a head coach be concerned about getting wins is a bad thing? Maybe he needed to be encouraged to play "loose" for his best potential. 

 

Brady wasn't even taken in the 1st round, don't qb's improve their game in the NFL? At least the good ones.

 

Seems like all these kids have their own personal coaches anyway. Maybe too many voices can mess a kid up. Like with golf, you don't want to be thinking too many thoughts on that back swing!

 

It does seem however, that Oregon is not "quarterback U". It would appear that finding a qb guru could be a good thing, but I believe most colleges could use one.

 

Brady was taken so late in part because the coaches at Michigan were clueless as to the guy to start at QB. Brady only got the the starting gig with the Patriots when Drew Bledsoe was injured.

 

How's Belichick looking without Brady?

 

In 2021, Sark started the wrong QB in the opener and in the 1st half of the Arkansas game. Riley did not start the right  guy at QB vs Texas. BUT BOTH WERE WILLING TO MAKE CHANGES. And both back ups were coached up and ready to play.

[DuckIt]

Instead of Oregon being focused on picking the right recruits, maybe Oregon should start at the root of the problem and hire the right coaches.  Oregon needs competent coaches who know how evaluate, recruit, and develop talent to maximize their players' potential.  Oregon has been lacking that since CK's departure to the NFL.

[Just Ducky]

Pretty obvious that the coaching staff held this kid back. It seems he did not improve much from year to year.

 

Many of his throws in college were thrown to hard and let’s be honest most college wide receivers aren’t ready for a ball with that much velocity. 

 

He seemed to lock in on on his primary receiver and would try to rifle it in even when they were covered.

 

In the games that I attended there were wide open tight ends and receivers that never got the ball thrown their way. 

 

What we are seeing now is a young QB with touch on the ball, goes thru his progressions, and escapes the pocket when needed. These things were always there but never developed by the Ducks staff. If that ain’t coaching then what is it?

[Annie]

On 10/11/2021 at 3:37 PM, nw777b said:

I have a hard time believing the coaches didn't coach JH on footwork or that they let "bad" footwork slide during countless hours of practice.

 

...

I remember Ken Woody often commenting on JH's footwork, with what seemed the implication that he was not being coached to correct it.

[Mike West]

Um,

 

You do realize JH scored 77;42;49;35; 28(then got injured in that game); 48 and 69 when healthy under the "controversial" and often criticized system the Snake led, right?

 

Oregon would have obliterated Chip's record year(s) had Justin decided to fall instead of lunge for the end zone that October.

 

Justin didn't have to worry about mechanics because he trusted his (NFL caliber) WRs.  Talent DOES make a difference.

 

I encourage EVERYONE to watch the first half of the Nebraska game that year. JH threw into tight windows, threw 45 yards to complete a ten yard TD on very quick timing that required a super quick decision.  Threw open passes to WRs before they were open, and simply "walked on water".

 

Every "expert" that criticized JH from that day went into my Expert Trash Bin.  It was beyond obvious he was going to kill it in the NFL.  At least in my mind.

 

So yes, he actually did get some good advice because he was smart enough to figure it out as a sophomore. That's how good he was, and how good the talent AND system were.  

 

Too many people have argued against those facts.  And we have it all archived here at FishDuck.  Just about everyone was critiquing an unstoppable offense.  Saying it was unimaginative, uncreative, as if it was garbage.  

 

So let me repeat those scores: 77;42;49; a paltry 35; 45( the final tally of the Cal debacle); 48 and SIXTY NINE.  

 

Anyone want to argue that system sucked?  An offense in which Justin Herbert averaged 49 points a game while he was healthy?  Can anyone actually argue he was poorly coached?

 

Um, please justify that reasoning for me.

 

Too bad I'm late to the plate on this thread.

[oregon112]

On 10/14/2021 at 1:20 AM, Mike West said:

Um,

 

You do realize JH scored 77;42;49;35; 28(then got injured in that game); 48 and 69 when healthy under the "controversial" and often criticized system the Snake led, right?

 

Oregon would have obliterated Chip's record year(s) had Justin decided to fall instead of lunge for the end zone that October.

 

Justin didn't have to worry about mechanics because he trusted his (NFL caliber) WRs.  Talent DOES make a difference.

 

I encourage EVERYONE to watch the first half of the Nebraska game that year. JH threw into tight windows, threw 45 yards to complete a ten yard TD on very quick timing that required a super quick decision.  Threw open passes to WRs before they were open, and simply "walked on water".

 

Every "expert" that criticized JH from that day went into my Expert Trash Bin.  It was beyond obvious he was going to kill it in the NFL.  At least in my mind.

 

So yes, he actually did get some good advice because he was smart enough to figure it out as a sophomore. That's how good he was, and how good the talent AND system were.  

 

Too many people have argued against those facts.  And we have it all archived here at FishDuck.  Just about everyone was critiquing an unstoppable offense.  Saying it was unimaginative, uncreative, as if it was garbage.  

 

So let me repeat those scores: 77;42;49; a paltry 35; 45( the final tally of the Cal debacle); 48 and SIXTY NINE.  

 

Anyone want to argue that system sucked?  An offense in which Justin Herbert averaged 49 points a game while he was healthy?  Can anyone actually argue he was poorly coached?

 

Um, please justify that reasoning for me.

 

Too bad I'm late to the plate on this thread.

 

Both the offense and defense looked good much of the time that year.  If Taggart and Leavitt stayed, who knows what the Ducks could be like right now?  But they also lost to every ranked team that they played that year. 

 

Where was the 'system' in regards to getting the backup QB ready for action?  Wasn't that the year that Burmeister was not so good? 

 

2017 was when Herbert started getting all that recognition as a top QB.  Thanks for the trip down memory lane. 

 

As for the 'system'...   it looked far better than the system the next two seasons on offense, anyway. 

[Mike West]

On 10/14/2021 at 2:05 AM, oregon112 said:

 

Both the offense and defense looked good much of the time that year.  If Taggart and Leavitt stayed, who knows what the Ducks could be like right now?  But they also lost to every ranked team that they played that year. 

 

Where was the 'system' in regards to getting the backup QB ready for action?  Wasn't that the year that Burmeister was not so good? 

 

2017 was when Herbert started getting all that recognition as a top QB.  Thanks for the trip down memory lane. 

 

As for the 'system'...   it looked far better than the system the next two seasons on offense, anyway. 

Braxton Burmeister couldn't hit a deep shot, and was only accurate between the hash marks.  Made it difficult to run an offense when teams lined up to stop the run, and force BB to convert third and long throws.

 

Not sure any system can compensate for that over a long stretch.  Again, talent DOES matter.  JH didn't have to wait for WRs to get open, so he was damn near an automatic machine gun.  Maybe even a guided missile.  The guy was lights out.  And we see with NFL talent he's MVP material already (and he isn't repeating rookie mistakes nearly as often this year).  

 

As for the losses to ranked teams, he threw a ball to a DB he was directly looking at.  That's an individual mistake not a system flaw ( both INTs that game were poorly thrown and read- again player mistake.).  BSU doesn't count as  the Snake had slithered away ( and the aftermath predetermined that loss- Avalos  usually loses to more talented offenses and got a huge early Christmas present).  

Edited October 14, 2021 by Mike West