Charles Fischer Administrator No. 1 Share Posted September 24 Rejected by AAC teams? Adding Utah-frickening-State? Wow, how much more confirmation of your value do you need? No, instead of accepting the blame of their prior administrators in building their audience and brand, Beavis decided to blame Oregon. Through it all, they believed they could build an adequate replica of the Pac-12. Truly, they are the Scrap-12 now, and it has been shown to the world. No hiding, no spinning it, and not even Canzano can ignore reality. Their media contract will be 10 million a year, while Oregon's averages 49 million over the next 10 years because of the difference in value from audience and brand. THAT is why they were left behind; we did not leave them behind, but Fox and ESPN left them behind without an offer through a conference. The numbers were not there... What is most astounding to me, is how they are spending all the stolen money retaining a brand that will be synonymous with the Mountain West within a few years, if not already. They are continuing what got them into this mess to begin with... So, are they going to blame all the recent rejections on Oregon too? 1 1 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JabbaNoBargain No. 2 Share Posted September 24 (edited) On 9/24/2024 at 10:19 AM, Charles Fischer said: Rejected by AAC teams? Adding Utah-frickening-State? Wow, how much more confirmation of your value do you need? No, instead of accepting the blame of their prior administrators in building their audience and brand, Beavis decided to blame Oregon. Through it all, they believed they could build an adequate replica of the Pac-12. Truly, they are the Scrap-12 now, and it has been shown to the world. No hiding, no spinning it, and not even Canzano can ignore reality. Their media contract will be 10 million a year, while Oregon's averages 49 million over the next 10 years because of the difference in value from audience and brand. THAT is why they were left behind; we did not leave them behind, but Fox and ESPN left them behind without an offer through a conference. The numbers were not there... What is most astounding to me, is how they are spending all the stolen money retaining a brand that will be synonymous with the Mountain West within a few years, if not already. They are continuing what got them into this mess to begin with... So, are they going to blame all the recent rejections on Oregon too? Indeed. They’ve stooped to adding a team currently under investigation by the DOJ, which I believe was against the real P12 rules…selling their soul to add a powerhouse like Utah State. The P12 brand was tested (again) and found to only hold value for 4/5 additional schools that have been trying to join for decades. I’m sure they wish they’d kept their receipts. From what I’ve heard (and trust), the media deal will probably be $8-9m per school without going farther east. Edited September 24 by JabbaNoBargain 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirklandduck Moderator No. 3 Share Posted September 24 Ok so the drama never stops apparently. After UNLV and SJSU seemingly reaffirmed their commitment to the MWC, UNLV now appears to be reconsidering after watching Utah State commit to the Pac-6. They are expected to restart talks with the Pac soon. Sources: UNLV exploring options after Utah State joins Pac-12 - ESPN WWW.ESPN.COM UNLV is expected to reengage in conversations with the Pac-12 after its commitment to the Mountain West earlier in the day was not formalized, sources told ESPN Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JabbaNoBargain No. 4 Share Posted September 24 (edited) On 9/24/2024 at 11:29 AM, kirklandduck said: Ok so the drama never stops apparently. After UNLV and SJSU seemingly reaffirmed their commitment to the MWC, UNLV now appears to be reconsidering after watching Utah State commit to the Pac-6. They are expected to restart talks with the Pac soon. Sources: UNLV exploring options after Utah State joins Pac-12 - ESPN WWW.ESPN.COM UNLV is expected to reengage in conversations with the Pac-12 after its commitment to the Mountain West earlier in the day was not formalized, sources told ESPN And it’s all boiling down to the PIG2 joining the MWC without admitting that’s what is happening. Somehow this is better than peacefully adding the piggies to the MWC and getting a slightly better media deal than the MWC currently has. At some point, will someone realize Teresa’s ego probably isn’t worth this nonsense? Nah. Edited September 24 by JabbaNoBargain 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirklandduck Moderator No. 5 Share Posted September 24 Now it's getting ugly. Pac-12 sues Mountain West as realignment drama escalates WWW.REVIEWJOURNAL.COM The Pac-12 filed a lawsuit against the Mountain West on Tuesday, one day after Utah State chose to leave the latter conference for the former. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven A Moderator No. 6 Share Posted September 24 WSU and OSU acknowledge what we already knew "the Pac-12 asserts that the Mountain West imposed the poaching penalty on a disadvantaged and desperate conference ..." So, shall they now be known as the: D & D conference, Double D conference, or D2 conference? I prefer D2 since that seems to be their tier in the college football landscape. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDuck No. 7 Share Posted September 24 The Pac is engaged in some deceptive practices as well. Agreeing to the poaching penalty which implies they would not touch the Mt. West schools just so they could fill their schedule in 2024. Now, filing a lawsuit simply to send a message to UNLV and Air Force that they should not count on the money that the Mt. West is claiming will be theirs after the new Pac pays their penalties. i.e. we win the lawsuit and less money for you...you are better off joining the Pac. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 8 Share Posted September 24 H is for Hypocrites. E is for erroneous Evaluations and L is for Larcenous Losers. Hell of a conference. I wonder when Linfield will get its invite. I expect these Wildcats would not sully its reputation by leaving The Northwest Conference for the Northwest Loser Left Behinds. Unlike Oregon State and Washington State, Linfield has won college football championships. Shout out to Charles for 'The Scrap 12.' 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck No. 9 Share Posted September 24 Oregon State should join the conference that Northwest Christian is in, their basketball team is coached by Luke Jackson. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JabbaNoBargain No. 10 Share Posted September 24 (edited) Another thing that occurs to me, they think they’re being clever by approaching this with the idea of poaching the top end of the MWC. Somehow or another that will move the needle as a conference if you don’t include the bottom end. Big flaw imo. What you’re doing is increasing the odds for the champ to have multiple losses while only minimally increasing yours odds of having multiple ranked teams. Combine this with alienating all west coast G6 schools that don’t join up…who are you going to get to play you at home OOC? OBD definitely need to not provide a home game for them, or any G6, moving forward. Edited September 24 by JabbaNoBargain 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck No. 11 Share Posted September 24 On 9/24/2024 at 1:22 PM, JabbaNoBargain said: OBD definitely need to not provide a home game for them, or any G6, moving forward. Absolutely agree. Alabama doesn't play games @ Southern Alabama. I actually think most Beaver fans don't want to play Oregon again, they probably grimaced, while Oregon fans grinned at Bray's post game comments. The coaches, admin are responsible for what happened to the Conference of Champions. Oregon State & Washington State didn't attract the B1G or the 12, Cal & Stanford had to go across the country and join the ACC. Oregon State has nothing to fear but fear itself, but I'm afraid that it's their fault. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Author Administrator No. 12 Share Posted September 24 On 9/24/2024 at 11:38 AM, JabbaNoBargain said: it’s all boiling down to the PIG2 joining the MWC without admitting that’s what is happening. Well, if they reverse merged, then the Pig-2 only have claim to 1/12th of the Pac-12 assets, versus getting half each the assets and future revenue flow off the photo/video archives if they retaining the Pac-12 name. 1 2 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Author Administrator No. 13 Share Posted September 24 On 9/24/2024 at 1:01 PM, Jon Joseph said: Shout out to Charles for 'The Scrap 12.' Actually, I did not come up with the word, "Scrap" as 30Duck did. I give full credit to him! And he has a track record of coming up with innovative names for things. For example, it was he who was the first to label the Cristobal offense at Oregon as, "the Prevent Offense." (So perfect!) It was also 30Duck who came up with our favorite slogan for this forum as he coined, "the forum-with-decorum." Thus why I give credit where due, as he has a flair for these titles! 2 1 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Author Administrator No. 14 Share Posted September 24 On 9/24/2024 at 1:22 PM, JabbaNoBargain said: who are the Scrap-12 going to get to play for home OOC games? Big Sky teams! 1 2 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeotechDuck No. 15 Share Posted September 24 I actually thought it was a decent idea to try and get a “best of the rest” conference together with the best MWC and AAC teams………. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckFan93 No. 16 Share Posted September 24 (edited) LOL - they are now taking MWC to court... Just wow, what a couple of weasels! Do they think they own the courts? Interestingly/stupidly - they filed in N. Cal this time, so they will not get as many sympathizers on the jury or the bench. Pac-12 takes Mountain West to court, claims ‘poaching penalty’ violates antitrust law WWW.OREGONLIVE.COM The scheduling agreement between the conferences is back in the spotlight. Edited September 24 by DuckFan93 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JabbaNoBargain No. 17 Share Posted September 24 On 9/24/2024 at 3:20 PM, GeotechDuck said: I actually thought it was a decent idea to try and get a “best of the rest” conference together with the best MWC and AAC teams………. Good concept, but trying to write a check they can’t cash and the others saw through it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJacksPlaidPants Moderator No. 18 Share Posted September 24 I said before that this is some Game of Thrones level behavior from the Pig 2. Ask for help from the Mountain West, agree to an alliance of sorts, and then run your sword across their neck. I wouldn’t expect anything less. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDuck No. 19 Share Posted September 25 The zombie Pac12? Pac-12 might be resurrected, but former power conference is no longer as relevant WWW.USATODAY.COM The zombie Pac-12 was resurrected, then it ran into an opposing force that we haven’t seen too often in college sports: Common sense. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Author Administrator No. 20 Share Posted September 25 Incredible article with a ton of juicy quotes! Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 21 Share Posted September 25 On 9/24/2024 at 3:20 PM, GeotechDuck said: I actually thought it was a decent idea to try and get a “best of the rest” conference together with the best MWC and AAC teams………. Well the two left over conferences will be the Big 12 (already a left over conference) and the ACC (once the break up starts). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonDucks No. 22 Share Posted September 25 I'm not surprised that the AAC teams decided to stay put. For those teams it's not worth the uncertainty (e.g., TV revenue) and additional travel. Perhaps the two conferences merge down the road? I'm shocked that the Pac-12 added Utah State. Why, unless it was meant to further destabilize the MWC? UNLV and/or Hawaii would have been much stronger choices. Lastly, I'm no lawyer, but the Pac-12 lawsuit is weak. The 8 Pac schools remaining, after the LA schools left, should have just voted to dissolve the conference and equally distribute the remaining assets, instead of just exiting the conference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonDucks No. 23 Share Posted September 25 Pac-12 might be resurrected, but former power conference is no longer as relevant Pac-12 might be resurrected, but former power conference is no longer as relevant WWW.YAHOO.COM The zombie Pac-12 was resurrected, then it ran into an opposing force that we haven’t seen too often in college sports: Common sense. "When Memphis, Tulane, South Florida and UTSA decided on Monday to remain for now in the American Athletic Conference, it was a massive win for new conference commissioner Tim Pernetti. It was also a massive win for logic, financial prudence and reality." "...Oregon State and Washington State, the two original Pac-12 leftovers who decided to bring the conference back, aren’t valued much more than Memphis." "...the new Pac-12 was not going to be a power conference no matter which of the potential members jumped in. And the notion of a $12 million per member payday, which had been the carrot for a school like Memphis (currently making around $8-9 million in the AAC) was merely theoretical and based on calculations from the Pac-12’s paid consultants that few people across the college sports industry actually believed." "A conference of Boise State, San Diego State, Colorado State, Fresno State, Oregon State, Washington State, Utah State and UNLV is…essentially the same league that those schools just decided to leave, albeit without a few bottom-feeders. And that's totally fine. In fact, it makes a lot of sense geographically and culturally. But if television networks were paying roughly $5 million to those schools when they were Mountain West members, what exactly is the case for doubling that for the same product under the Pac-12 banner? That’s why, across college sports, this entire Pac-12 play has been viewed as bizarre and nonsensical. And it’s why, even at the small handful of AAC schools they targeted, there was more confusion than enthusiasm about the kind of league they would have actually joined." "The Pac-12 might have been a power conference at one time, but now we know the truth: It’s not what it used to be." 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 24 Share Posted September 25 On 9/25/2024 at 8:13 AM, OregonDucks said: The 8 Pac schools remaining, after the LA schools left, should have just voted to dissolve the conference and equally distribute the remaining assets, instead of just exiting the conference. I think that was the intention but it didn't pan out for a couple reasons. 1. Everything dissolved so quickly. Once Colorado said they're leaving the media deal was released and it was sub-optimal to say the least. The Big 12 continued to push for the Arizona Schools and once Fox's B1G then swooped in to grab Oregon and Washington at half price for a few years and the Big 12 grabbed the Arizona Schools and Utah. 2. Agree with it or not... the legal case about control of the Pac-12 residing with the remaining members was based on the precedent that once members announced their leaving the conference (at first USC and UCLA) they lost voting rights in the conference. Colorado lost their voting rights on policy once they announced their leaving. So in keeping with consistency once everyone but OSU and WSU announced they're leaving those two got control of the conference. There was a desire by all the schools leaving to dissolve the conference and distribute resources but a judge ruled that because of the precedent set that members leaving lost their voting power the resources were forfeited. A lot of Duck fans are upset by this and I am not taking a side on whether this is right or not... but that is an explanation and logic used behind what happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonDucks No. 25 Share Posted September 25 Opinion Opinion: Pac-12 revival deserves nickname worthy of cheap sunglasses Opinion: Pac-12 revival deserves nickname worthy of cheap sunglasses WWW.YAHOO.COM When I think of the resurrected Pac-12 adding Utah State and other, it's reminiscent of a vendor hawking cheap sunglasses in Mexico. "People in on the joke know these sunglasses by a nickname: Foakleys, short for Fake Oakleys. That’s what the new Pac-Whatever is. It’s the Fake Pac-Whatever. I’ll call it the F-Pac-W. This resurrected league can welcome Utah State into the fold, slap a Pac logo on its chest and hope no one notices the imitation, but anyone who remembers Reggie Bush or Marcus Allen or Bill Walton or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar will spot this conference for the gimmick it is." "...As the F-Pac-W scrambled for members this week, it all came off as a little pathetic." "It’s going to be a nice little conference that will possess some geographical alignment – a rarity, nowadays. The league will pack a punch with the best of the Group of Fives. The same could have been said of the Mountain West, particularly in hoops." 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JabbaNoBargain No. 26 Share Posted September 25 (edited) Despite my posts, my interest is waning fast. The funny thing is, even if they “win”, look at what they’re fighting for as a prize, the ability to create/pilfer a G6 conference more cheaply. Awesome job piggies, tell me more. My ultimate takeaways are: No empathy from this guy, zero respect for them I’m personally now in favor of not playing them (even next year) They’re joining/creating a G6 conference, do I really care about the bean counting to get there? Cool story bro. Edited September 25 by JabbaNoBargain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Author Administrator No. 27 Share Posted September 25 I am becoming a bit more entertained by it all. While they will not admit it, the problems of the Pig-2 came from bad athletic administrative decisions over decades. Now they are on they own? Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 28 Share Posted September 25 On 9/25/2024 at 9:08 AM, JabbaNoBargain said: Despite my posts, my interest is waning fast. The funny thing is, even if they “win”, look at what they’re fighting for as a prize, the ability to create/pilfer a G6 conference more cheaply. Awesome job piggies, tell me more. My ultimate takeaways are: No empathy from this guy, zero respect for them I’m personally now in favor of not playing them (even next year) They’re joining/creating a G6 conference, do I really care about the bean counting to get there? Cool story bro. I mean all of our current interest is based on the drama and the train wreck that this is... it gives us something to talk about. I tuned in to part of the WSU and OSU games last week but I didn't watch their entirety. I don't think that will hold my interest to even both checking in on the game in future years... I doubt I will even check the box scores all that often. I don't check the box scores all that often as it is for G5 teams but only when I am doing some basic research for an article or forum post. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonDucks No. 29 Share Posted September 25 I understand that bridges have been burnt but why not just merge with the Mountain West, at this point, to avoid the exit fees? If Utah State joins, who are you trying to leave behind? • Hawaii • UNLV • Nevada • Air Force • New Mexico • San Jose State • Wyoming Are the above programs much worse than the current and future PAC-12 programs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noDucknewby No. 30 Share Posted September 25 On 9/25/2024 at 11:04 AM, OregonDucks said: I understand that bridges have been burnt but why not just merge with the Mountain West, at this point, to avoid the exit fees? If Utah State joins, who are you trying to leave behind? • Hawaii • UNLV • Nevada • Air Force • New Mexico • San Jose State • Wyoming Are the above programs much worse than the current and future PAC-12 programs? Agree. If cooler heads prevailed this would have made sense, but the P-2 weren't giving up their ill-gotten booty and the MWC (especially the commissioner that doesn't want to be unemployed) wasn't willing to dissolve. IMHO some kind of merger agreement could have been figured out, but the P-2 struck the first blow and there's no going back from there. The only real winner here is the broadcast/broadband industry, because IMHO when the dust settles there's going to be one less TV contract to pay out. There's no way they're going to pay twice for essentially the same product as the former MWC. Regardless, I'm finding this all quite entertaining in a very schadenfreude kind of way. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Author Administrator No. 31 Share Posted September 25 On 9/25/2024 at 11:04 AM, OregonDucks said: I understand that bridges have been burnt but why not just merge with the Mountain West, at this point, to avoid the exit fees? If Utah State joins, who are you trying to leave behind? • Hawaii • UNLV • Nevada • Air Force • New Mexico • San Jose State • Wyoming Are the above programs much worse than the current and future PAC-12 programs? I'd bet that the last two the Scrap-12 goes after is Nevada, to make a UNLV move easier, or if they can move them without the Wolfpack, then San Jose State and they will cite the Silicon Valley audience. (Right!) 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanLduck No. 32 Share Posted September 25 "The Pac12 used to be something, now we know the truth, IT'S NOT WHAT IT USED TO BE". This is the kiss of death for the Pac. To get the best MWC teams will cost them $20M/ school. To join the MWC will cost them the $300M in Pac12 $$ left and only let them keep 1/12th. And they still need to find a media deal that will pay, and at best they can hope for is maybe $10M/yr. Or, maybe the original Apple streaming deal, for $15M? And they will never be considered a "Power" conference. What's the attraction to join them? What gets me is that even Beaver fans don't like the Beavers. The game with Purdue wasn't close to a sellout. And their stadium only seats 37K! I too find this all quite enjoyably humerus. I am so tired of all the crap talk coming from Canzano and Oregonian writers! I will look forward to 1 game a year from the Beavs, the "Left Behind Bowl" against WSU. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJacksPlaidPants Moderator No. 33 Share Posted September 25 On 9/25/2024 at 11:53 AM, OregonDucks said: Pac-12 might be resurrected, but former power conference is no longer as relevant Pac-12 might be resurrected, but former power conference is no longer as relevant WWW.YAHOO.COM The zombie Pac-12 was resurrected, then it ran into an opposing force that we haven’t seen too often in college sports: Common sense. "When Memphis, Tulane, South Florida and UTSA decided on Monday to remain for now in the American Athletic Conference, it was a massive win for new conference commissioner Tim Pernetti. It was also a massive win for logic, financial prudence and reality." "...Oregon State and Washington State, the two original Pac-12 leftovers who decided to bring the conference back, aren’t valued much more than Memphis." "...the new Pac-12 was not going to be a power conference no matter which of the potential members jumped in. And the notion of a $12 million per member payday, which had been the carrot for a school like Memphis (currently making around $8-9 million in the AAC) was merely theoretical and based on calculations from the Pac-12’s paid consultants that few people across the college sports industry actually believed." "A conference of Boise State, San Diego State, Colorado State, Fresno State, Oregon State, Washington State, Utah State and UNLV is…essentially the same league that those schools just decided to leave, albeit without a few bottom-feeders. And that's totally fine. In fact, it makes a lot of sense geographically and culturally. But if television networks were paying roughly $5 million to those schools when they were Mountain West members, what exactly is the case for doubling that for the same product under the Pac-12 banner? That’s why, across college sports, this entire Pac-12 play has been viewed as bizarre and nonsensical. And it’s why, even at the small handful of AAC schools they targeted, there was more confusion than enthusiasm about the kind of league they would have actually joined." "The Pac-12 might have been a power conference at one time, but now we know the truth: It’s not what it used to be." Is Blake Toppmeyer a pseudonym used by Charles Fischer? 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 34 Share Posted September 25 On 9/25/2024 at 11:04 AM, OregonDucks said: I understand that bridges have been burnt but why not just merge with the Mountain West, at this point, to avoid the exit fees? If Utah State joins, who are you trying to leave behind? • Hawaii • UNLV • Nevada • Air Force • New Mexico • San Jose State • Wyoming Are the above programs much worse than the current and future PAC-12 programs? The reality is that they wanted to swing big and try and capture the cream of the G5 schools and try and leverage that into something equal to a Big 12... In truth it wouldn't be far off but it would still be a step down. They missed in their efforts. Now they are trying to not fail. Merging with the Mountain West would be much easier at this point but that would be admitting a defeat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Duck No. 35 Share Posted September 25 On 9/25/2024 at 11:04 AM, OregonDucks said: If Utah State joins, who are you trying to leave behind? • Hawaii • UNLV • Nevada • Air Force • New Mexico • San Jose State • Wyoming Are the above programs much worse than the current and future PAC-12 programs? This would be a conference that OSU and WSU could compete in, maybe even win. Instead of hating on Oregon, Washington, UCLA, USC for "leaving them" they should be thankful they weren't laid off from the Pac-12 years ago. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanLduck No. 36 Share Posted September 26 How much you wanna bet, that at the end of the day, Osu and Wsu join the MWC. That's really their best option. But, denial requires trying every other door first. We shall see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Author Administrator No. 37 Share Posted September 26 On 9/25/2024 at 5:12 PM, DanLduck said: How much you wanna bet, that at the end of the day, Osu and Wsu join the MWC. Whatever decision they make, I am confident that it will be... Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
