Ruh-Roh! Fans Gnashing Teeth in Miami...

[Charles Fischer]

So, it is happening faster than at Oregon?  That was a short honeymoon....  

 

 

 

 

 

Did they just admit that last year's recruiting was due to Bags of NIL money?

 

[woundedknees]

Elite play calling?

 

Huh?

[David Marsh]

On 7/13/2023 at 8:55 AM, woundedknees said:

Elite play calling?

 

Huh?

I'm not sure if that individual is being sarcastic or not... 

 

Either way it denotes a major failure and delusion. 

[2002duck]

On 7/13/2023 at 12:18 PM, David Marsh said:

I'm not sure if that individual is being sarcastic or not... 

 

Either way it denotes a major failure and delusion. 

It had to be sarcasm. Nobody uses the term "elite" wantonly. It's almost always a slight.

[Steven A]

Well, at least they got the 80Mil right.

[Steven A]

Plus, it just proved Canzano's point about no one watching on the East coast.

[Just Ducky]

Miami may be under water soon in more ways than one.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Just Ducky

[Haywarduck]

Interesting MariØ can't recruit at Miami, surrounded by talent, at his alma mater. He can recruit at Oregon, in the middle of nowhere, without any connection to the program. 

 

Makes you wonder just how hard it is to recruit too Eugene if you know the formula. 

 

Not saying Lanning isn't working his tail off, but the Oregon Program isn't what Scott Frost was saying. You can recruit to Oregon, and Scott Frost was completely wrong!

 

I suppose this is one of the reasons head coaches who leave Oregon fail at a high rate?

[kirklandduck]

I think what we're seeing is Mario's bad X's & O's finally catching up to him.  High school grads pay attention to what their prospective coaches are doing, especially the blue chips.  I wouldn't be surprised if recruits are noticing how bad his offenses really are and how much he alters/overrules his OCs schemes and play-calling instead of letting them do their job.  If I were a highly ranked QB or WR, I'd stay away like the plague.  

[Jon Joseph]

On 7/13/2023 at 6:45 PM, kirklandduck said:

I think what we're seeing is Mario's bad X's & O's finally catching up to him.  High school grads pay attention to what their prospective coaches are doing, especially the blue chips.  I wouldn't be surprised if recruits are noticing how bad his offenses really are and how much he alters/overrules his OCs schemes and play-calling instead of letting them do their job.  If I were a highly ranked QB or WR, I'd stay away like the plague.  

Mario never met a QB that he couldn't rein in and mess up.

[Dr Hilarius]

On 7/13/2023 at 2:35 PM, Haywarduck said:

You can recruit to Oregon, and Scott Frost was completely wrong!

I said this exact thing at the time Frost said it. 

 

And I have considered Frost an arrogant, idiotic, a-hole since then. 

 

I have not been proven wrong. 

[Dr Hilarius]

On 7/13/2023 at 3:45 PM, kirklandduck said:

  High school grads pay attention to what their prospective coaches are doing, especially the blue chips. 

This!!

 

Herbert’s dominance in the NFL makes Mari look baaaaaad—like reeeeeeeeeal bad.

 

What QB in their right mind would want to play for Mari??

[Just Ducky]

 The only thing MC should be proud of at Oregon is being a liar, I guess that comes with football in Florida. Willy was the same guy. 
 

 Although they recruited some high star guys very few lived up to their potential. 
 

 We all want to bad mouth chip but his talent evaluation was as good as it gets.

 

 It seems crazy but chip talent valuation and coach up ability was the best Oregon has ever had, if DL is a close second then we have a winner. And will win a natty. 
 

 Mc never will. Period.

[Haywarduck]

On 7/13/2023 at 8:04 PM, Just Ducky said:

 The only thing MC should be proud of at Oregon is being a liar, I guess that comes with football in Florida. Willy was the same guy. 
 

 Although they recruited some high star guys very few lived up to their potential. 
 

 We all want to bad mouth chip but his talent evaluation was as good as it gets.

 

 It seems crazy but chip talent valuation and coach up ability was the best Oregon has ever had, if DL is a close second then we have a winner. And will win a natty. 
 

 Mc never will. Period.

Great stuff, if DL can develop and utilize as well as Chip we have a Natty. Chip took a DB and made him lightening out of a bootle, in a dynamic offense that was worth more than the ticket price while giving us our first Heisman. He also allowed Alliotti to create a defense that was as good as the recruiting, at the time, would allow.

 

That is an amazing analysis of the situation we await to see. The big if is, can Dan actually develop and utilize the talent he is bringing in. I am willing to watch no matter what NIL, conference stuff, and tv contracts come our way.

 

 

[Mudslide]

On 7/13/2023 at 3:45 PM, kirklandduck said:

I think what we're seeing is Mario's bad X's & O's finally catching up to him.  High school grads pay attention to what their prospective coaches are doing, especially the blue chips.  I wouldn't be surprised if recruits are noticing how bad his offenses really are and how much he alters/overrules his OCs schemes and play-calling instead of letting them do their job.  If I were a highly ranked QB or WR, I'd stay away like the plague.  

I agree.  But they just signed a 5-star receiver, Joshisa Trader. (Although ... he is from Hollywood, FLA.  So, hometown recruiting mamas may be at work here.)

Edited July 14, 2023 by Mudslide

[David Marsh]

On 7/13/2023 at 2:35 PM, Haywarduck said:

Oregon Program isn't what Scott Frost was saying. You can recruit to Oregon, and Scott Frost was completely wrong!

Just going to post one of my older articles which I still feel has a lot of truth in it. I would say Scott Frost was right for the time but times have changed a lot and the walls have certainly come down to some of the greatest barriers Oregon has faced in the past. But the mentallity of how to recruit with Cristobal and now Lanning has completely changed how Oregon is able to recruit.

 

Scott Frost Was Absolutely Right About Recruiting to Oregon

FISHDUCK.COM

---

Oregon is hot on the recruiting trail right now. Just last week, Oregon landed 2022 recruit Andre Dollar over Scott Frost and...

 

Then to follow that up... just take a quick look at how Oregon's recruiting was during the Bellotti, Kelly and Helfrich eras. Modern Oregon recruiting isn't in the same ball park.

 

https://fishduck.com/2022/02/a-defense-of-helfrichs-recruiting-legacy/

 

The second link may not be working... I was getting an error trying to pull it up but the link is still good once it works again.

 

But in short.. Lanning is bringing a recruiting mentality to Oregon that simply wasn't there in the past. Oregon was all about finding diamonds in the rough and every few years might be able to steal a five-star recruit. I would say Scott Frost is really stuck in an older school recruiting mentality and that bit him real bad at Nebraska. If he goes back to coaching in the G5 the older approach of finding diamonds in the rough works really well for G5 schools because that's the talent that they can get.

 

But remember Frost's time at Oregon was during the eras of Oregon's building reputation and brand that attracts kids to it today... it was still pretty dependent on 3-stars. I remember during Helfrich's time that the Oregon staff came in 2nd with a lot of high end recruits... and coming in 2nd back then isn't what it is today.

 

With all that said... I wouldn't want Frost back at Oregon and recruiting. He isn't a big enough recruiter for this day and age.

[kirklandduck]

On 7/13/2023 at 9:06 PM, Mudslide said:

I agree.  But they just signed a 5-star receiver, Joshisa Trader. (Although ... he is from Hollywood, FLA.  So, hometown recruiting mamas may be at work here.)

There will be one in every bunch that will make a bad decision. Even with his commitment Miami has only 5 blue chips and 12 3* players. For the most part, the good ones are staying away. 

 

If Miami has another sub-500 season record with bad losses to bad teams, I don't think Mario will make it halfway though his 2nd year. He'll be fired early like Slick Willie did.

[Haywarduck]

It was tough recruiting back in Brooks day, very tough. It wasn't easy when Bellotti took over. Here is Frost's quote just after he left, about recruiting at Oregon.

 

"Every kid in the country wanted to come to Oregon. They saw how we played, they saw the facilities, they saw the uniforms, the winning. Everybody was interested in Oregon. I'm telling recruits down here they don't have to go 3,000 miles away to get that anymore, Oregon just came to them."

 

Slick saw that, the previous coach not so much, and recruited with that knowledge. MariØ saw that too, but almost destroyed that allure. Lanning is renewing that fascination. He is also building a staff, and culture which has the ability to be something special. The young student athletes can sense this and are lining up again. 

 

I will agree to disagree about the era of Helfrich.

[Dr Hilarius]

On 7/13/2023 at 9:07 PM, David Marsh said:

I remember during Helfrich's time that the Oregon staff came in 2nd with a lot of high end recruits...

Yes—I could never figure out why—but now I know. MH was an awful recruiter. Honestly, he was just a really bad coach. The off-field issues his teams had were terrifying. 

 

OR was a national brand that played for 2 Natties in 3 yrs. MH couldn’t capitalize. 

[Mudslide]

Let us all cheer that the Ducks continue to thrive on the recruiting front after a string of awful coaches.  MH, WT, and MariOH-OH ... ye shall be forever forgotten.  

[Jon Joseph]

On 7/13/2023 at 11:04 PM, Just Ducky said:

 The only thing MC should be proud of at Oregon is being a liar, I guess that comes with football in Florida. Willy was the same guy. 
 

 Although they recruited some high star guys very few lived up to their potential. 
 

 We all want to bad mouth chip but his talent evaluation was as good as it gets.

 

 It seems crazy but chip talent valuation and coach up ability was the best Oregon has ever had, if DL is a close second then we have a winner. And will win a natty. 
 

 Mc never will. Period.

Good call on Chip but at Oregon he was assisted by an all-world group of assistant coaches who coached 3* recruits, or lesser recruits, up. When he didn't inherit a ready-made coaching staff his hires have not been all that impressive. He was re-upped at UCLA on the condition that he dump his DC coordinator. 

[Jon Joseph]

On 7/14/2023 at 10:32 AM, Dr Hilarius said:

Yes—I could never figure out why—but now I know. MH was an awful recruiter. Honestly, he was just a really bad coach. The off-field issues his teams had were terrifying. 

 

OR was a national brand that played for 2 Natties in 3 yrs. MH couldn’t capitalize. 

Bad HC, no doubt, but he was just fine as an OC. Hard for many folks to make the final step up. 

[Haywarduck]

On 7/14/2023 at 8:03 AM, Jon Joseph said:

Good call on Chip but at Oregon he was assisted by an all-world group of assistant coaches who coached 3* recruits, or lesser recruits, up. When he didn't inherit a ready-made coaching staff his hires have not been all that impressive. He was re-upped at UCLA on the condition that he dump his DC coordinator. 

Agree on Chip, what has saved him at ucla was his brilliance as a coach. I think coaches don't fully appreciate the Oregon advantage and too often think they are miracle workers while not able to acknowledge the advantage Oregon has as a program. That is what happened to slick, and is now happening to MariØ.

 

It seems Lanning loves Oregon, knows the advantage, and is leveraging it for all it's worth. Let's hope Lanning never gets so full of himself that he ventures off and fails too.

 

I do agree Helfrich was an amazing coach, just that he was an amazing assistant coach. He failed at many things as a head coach. Too bad he hasn't been able to jump back into the game. Maybe he is just being a great Dad. I hope so, and is enjoying life, being a great Dad is the most important job anyway!

[Charles Fischer]

Yes, the quality of assistant coaches assembled by Brooks and Bellotti have been consistently overlooked.  Chip could not duplicate it in Westwood, and Mario cannot in Miami.

 

For Lanning?  So far, so good!

[Steven A]

Chip was also helped by an O system that D's didn't catch up during his tenure.

 

So, he really coached them into his system.

 

Too bad he stuck with running at Farley.

[Charles Fischer]

On 7/14/2023 at 10:33 AM, Steven A said:

Chip was also helped by an O system that D's didn't catch up during his tenure.

 

So, he really coached them into his system.

 

Too bad he stuck with running at Farley.

Chip did not run at Fairley.  The play was designed to go outside, and Barner took it inside himself.  (Orange line is where he went, and the yellow lines are for where the play was designed, based upon the Zone Read.  The play was blocker superbly on the outside, and he would have jogged into the end zone at the pylon)

 

[Jon Joseph]

On 7/14/2023 at 12:20 PM, Haywarduck said:

Agree on Chip, what has saved him at ucla was his brilliance as a coach. I think coaches don't fully appreciate the Oregon advantage and too often think they are miracle workers while not able to acknowledge the advantage Oregon has as a program. That is what happened to slick, and is now happening to MariØ.

 

It seems Lanning loves Oregon, knows the advantage, and is leveraging it for all it's worth. Let's hope Lanning never gets so full of himself that he ventures off and fails too.

 

I do agree Helfrich was an amazing coach, just that he was an amazing assistant coach. He failed at many things as a head coach. Too bad he hasn't been able to jump back into the game. Maybe he is just being a great Dad. I hope so, and is enjoying life, being a great Dad is the most important job anyway!

Great take but what saved him at UCLA was the dead money the Bruins were already paying to fired coaches. Chip has done no better on the field than Jim Mora who out recruited Chip and showed his bona fides by turning around a dismal UConn program last season. I have seen nothing out of Chip since that proves his coaching genius. Nothing innovative since his days at Oregon. He did OK with the Eagles before a guy named Chip Kelly scored the GM job. And his time with the 49ers? No Pac-12 titles or conference champ game appearances for UCLA since Chip signed on. 

 

He blew the bowl game with Pitt last season with a late-in-the-game meltdown on a kickoff and on D. He was handed 3 OOC wins in 2022 and defeated Alabama State with a walk-off FG. 2023 will be another season without a P5 opponent OOC and he also has the benefit of missing Oregon and UW and playing Cal and Stanford. So, the record will be OK, 9-3/8-4, but I don't see him making it to the conference champ game. Next season he has to play at LSU and does not get LSU in LA and in a free fall under Ed Orgeron. And drawing Michigan as a permanent B1G opponent is not ideal for UCLA's future in the B1G. 

 

It's not Lincoln Riley's $9M base salary but what has he done in Westwood to earn $4.7 million a year? In the B1G, I see him on the same level as Minnesota's PJ Fleck. Although Fleck did take W Michigan to an NY6 bowl.

[Charles Fischer]

On 7/14/2023 at 10:57 AM, Jon Joseph said:

Chip has done no better on the field than Jim Mora who out recruited Chip and showed his bona fides by turning around a dismal UConn program last season. I have seen nothing out of Chip since that proves his coaching genius. Nothing innovative since his days at Oregon. He did OK with the Eagles before a guy named Chip Kelly scored the GM job.

My phrase about how well Chip would do at UCLA?  "His upside is about nine wins....Mora or less."

 

[Haywarduck]

On 7/14/2023 at 10:57 AM, Jon Joseph said:

Great take but what saved him at UCLA was the dead money the Bruins were already paying to fired coaches. Chip has done no better on the field than Jim Mora who out recruited Chip and showed his bona fides by turning around a dismal UConn program last season. I have seen nothing out of Chip since that proves his coaching genius. Nothing innovative since his days at Oregon. He did OK with the Eagles before a guy named Chip Kelly scored the GM job. And his time with the 49ers? No Pac-12 titles or conference champ game appearances for UCLA since Chip signed on. 

 

He blew the bowl game with Pitt last season with a late-in-the-game meltdown on a kickoff and on D. He was handed 3 OOC wins in 2022 and defeated Alabama State with a walk-off FG. 2023 will be another season without a P5 opponent OOC and he also has the benefit of missing Oregon and UW and playing Cal and Stanford. So, the record will be OK, 9-3/8-4, but I don't see him making it to the conference champ game. Next season he has to play at LSU and does not get LSU in LA and in a free fall under Ed Orgeron. And drawing Michigan as a permanent B1G opponent is not ideal for UCLA's future in the B1G. 

 

It's not Lincoln Riley's $9M base salary but what has he done in Westwood to earn $4.7 million a year? In the B1G, I see him on the same level as Minnesota's PJ Fleck. Although Fleck did take W Michigan to an NY6 bowl.

Agree, but I would add brilliance and arrogance aren't a pretty combination. The arrogance hurts with recruiting and managing assistants. It also hurts with play calling at times. If you were to try and picture arrogance and brilliance in one person Chip would be one of the poster boys.

 

At Oregon he was in the perfect situation where arrogance was overshadowed, by the humility and modesty surrounding him.

 

Fortunately Lanning, is once again, bringing back humility and modesty. This is one aspect so completely different than the previous two guys!

[Washington Waddler]

     Good stuff. What’s fascinating is the sheer number of coaches whose hidden, self-centered ambitions blinded them from ‘seeing’ what their recruits saw and still do. You can’t put a label on it, and words fail to express it. It’s just Oregon.

[Cacker Guy]

On 7/14/2023 at 8:04 AM, Jon Joseph said:

Bad HC, no doubt, but he was just fine as an OC. Hard for many folks to make the final step up.

I've seen this many times in 20 years of coaching.  Some guys are great position coaches and can't quite step up to be good coordinators (Pellum at UO?), and even many great high school coordinators are lousy head coaches.  So much more is involved in the HC job -- so much of it is leading players and staff, working with admin, parents, boosters, off-season programs, feeder programs, managing staff, etc. etc.  Plus the on-field leadership and coordination.  Motivating players and keeping them out of trouble.  I have great respect for guys who can do it -- there is just so much to the job.  Plus you need tenacity, thick skin, and tremendous physical, mental and emotional endurance and toughness.

 

I really liked Helfrich as a person and I think he was a very good OC.  He didn't quite have all the necessary skills to be a good HC.  But there is no shame in that, since it takes an extraordinary man to do it.  And he tried.  I wish him well and hope he is happy.  

 

Here's hoping Coach Lanning is that extraordinary man, who can lead, manage everything, and stay humble and likeable.

[Haywarduck]

I would add humility and modesty doesn't rule out competitiveness. I see a confidence and inner strength in Lanning that is complemented with a fire that feeds his intellect. Now can that all blend into with the Oregon magic, stay tuned, I know I will!

Edited July 14, 2023 by Haywarduck

[DUCati855]

On 7/13/2023 at 8:17 PM, Haywarduck said:

Chip took a DB and made him lightening out of a bootle, in a dynamic offense that was worth more than the ticket price while giving us our first Heisman.

Hayward, I will agree with you that Chip rose the standards of expectations at UO. But, I must correct you on this (unless I'm misinterpreting it). It was Helfrich that recruited Marcus as an assistant and it was Helfrich who was Head Coach when Marcus won the Heisman. Not Chip.

 

I 100% agree that Helfrich makes a much better OC than Head Coach and I honestly feel Mark and Chip were equally as lazy when it came to recruiting. But, I'm very thankful to both of their brilliant offensive minds.

[kirklandduck]

On 7/14/2023 at 1:07 PM, Cacker Guy said:

I've seen this many times in 20 years of coaching.  Some guys are great position coaches and can't quite step up to be good coordinators (Pellum at UO?), and even many great high school coordinators are lousy head coaches.  So much more is involved in the HC job -- so much of it is leading players and staff, working with admin, parents, boosters, off-season programs, feeder programs, managing staff, etc. etc.  Plus the on-field leadership and coordination.  Motivating players and keeping them out of trouble.  I have great respect for guys who can do it -- there is just so much to the job.  Plus you need tenacity, thick skin, and tremendous physical, mental and emotional endurance and toughness.

 

I really liked Helfrich as a person and I think he was a very good OC.  He didn't quite have all the necessary skills to be a good HC.  But there is no shame in that, since it takes an extraordinary man to do it.  And he tried.  I wish him well and hope he is happy.  

 

Here's hoping Coach Lanning is that extraordinary man, who can lead, manage everything, and stay humble and likeable.

Helfrich was an excellent OC and one of the best offensive minds around.  Herbert's best development happened primarily under MH's tutelage.  Could you imagine what kind of offense he could design around someone like Bo Nix?

[Haywarduck]

On 7/14/2023 at 3:28 PM, DUCati855 said:

Hayward, I will agree with you that Chip rose the standards of expectations at UO. But, I must correct you on this (unless I'm misinterpreting it). It was Helfrich that recruited Marcus as an assistant and it was Helfrich who was Head Coach when Marcus won the Heisman. Not Chip.

I think your right, Helfrich deserves most of the credit. I do think each coach gained a great deal from the previous coach up to Helfrich. Slick and MariØ took over a bit of a dumpster fire of a program, and did some good things on the recruiting and assistant coach front. We also lucked out on the last second recruiting of Justin.

 

In hindsight it should have been Allioti's turn to run the program, but the OC stepping into that role was the Oregon way. Helfrich was the next boy wonder offensive coach.

 

[Tandaian]

Helfrich has 2 kids, a son Max, 11th grade next year and a daughter, Maggie 8th grade next year.  Both play sports and he us running around watching them play and then doing some college Football color(?) guy stuff.