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Which Ducks Could Play the Sam?

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We’ve learned that the Sam LB position in Coach DeRuyter’s defense is a “big safety”. There are a few current players at safety that could fill the spot, including Hill, Williams and Happle. 

In another post ChicoDuck also suggested incoming freshman Jeffery Bassa. 

The one thing is that all four of these guys would need to put on weight this off-season. Currently, they sit around 200lbs each. You’d like them to be in the 220-225 range. 

I also want to take a look at current OLB and see which guys possess more safety-like skill sets. 

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I am going with Jamal Hill as a serious candidate if he is not starting in the defensive backfield.  See the guns on that guy?  They look more like linebacker arms, than defensive back arms, IMHO.

Watch: Oregon DB Jamal Hill talks about how he's improved as a sophomore -  CBSSports.com

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Mr. FishDuck

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8 minutes ago, Charles Fischer said:

I am going with Jamal Hill

 

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54 minutes ago, Coach Eric Boles said:

We’ve learned that the Sam LB position in Coach DeRuyter’s defense is a “big safety”. There are a few current players at safety that could fill the spot, including Hill, Williams and Happle. 

In another post ChicoDuck also suggested incoming freshman Jeffery Bassa. 

The one thing is that all four of these guys would need to put on weight this off-season. Currently, they sit around 200lbs each. You’d like them to be in the 220-225 range. 

I also want to take a look at current OLB and see which guys possess more safety-like skill sets. 

I think Down & Distance as well as how much green grass is behind them, will dictate the personnel grouping(s) here. For example, I like Hill in this Slot against a speed merchant when the offense is starting at its own 20 and the field is tilted against them. Their playbook is wide open and you want your 4.41 guy keeping tabs on their Slot Guy (typically their fastest guy). However as the offense moves the ball and the field tilts, you want the SAM to get bigger/Rangier as the field shrinks towards the Red Zone, and running the ball starts to become more important. The playbook likewise shrinks. Then the Jeffrey Bassa's morph into the Adrian Jackson's as they get closer to the goal line.

Just a hunch.  

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12 minutes ago, ChicoDuck said:

I think Down & Distance as well as how much green grass is behind them, will dictate the personnel grouping(s) here.

I was hoping you would chime in here ChicoDuck, as once again you bring something I had not thought of. What you describe makes perfect sense, and this is something we fans need to be reminded of to watch for in the game.

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Mr. FishDuck

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I've never seen a Safety look like Hill physically coming out of high school and I live in the south!  Next year Hill will becomes our Dargan 2.0! 

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2 hours ago, ChicoDuck said:

I think Down & Distance as well as how much green grass is behind them, will dictate the personnel grouping(s) here. For example, I like Hill in this Slot against a speed merchant when the offense is starting at its own 20 and the field is tilted against them. Their playbook is wide open and you want your 4.41 guy keeping tabs on their Slot Guy (typically their fastest guy). However as the offense moves the ball and the field tilts, you want the SAM to get bigger/Rangier as the field shrinks towards the Red Zone, and running the ball starts to become more important. The playbook likewise shrinks. Then the Jeffrey Bassa's morph into the Adrian Jackson's as they get closer to the goal line.

Just a hunch.  

This could always be a possibility, but if I’m just going off of game tape, that hasn’t been the case for Coach DeRuyter. From what I’ve seen, he always keeps the same personnel in unless he’s in his 2-4-5 set. 

The personnel set in his scheme is what let's him be flexible without having to sub. And I think I maybe led us astray when I listed of safeties that could play the position. The Sam is not a safety, he is a LB that has a safety-like skill set. Think Lamar Winston. 

I just wanted to throw out some names like Hill who could put on the weight to play the position. In no way do I realistically think that all of those guys would play the position.

The depth there could be made up of safeties who put on weight and lighter LBs with good coverage ability. 

The position also won’t be asked to play man coverage a great deal. The majority of Coach DeRuyter’s defense is zone coverage. 

Edited by Coach Eric Boles
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In these new speculations, is ISM thought to be moving back inside? Seems like a guy who would be comfortable playing both near the LOS and dropping into a zone?

Edited by AnotherOD
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1 hour ago, Coach Eric Boles said:

This could always be a possibility, but if I’m just going off of game tape, that hasn’t been the case for Coach DeRuyter. From what I’ve seen, he always keeps the same personnel in unless he’s in his 2-4-5 set. 

The personnel set in his scheme is what let's him be flexible without having to sub. And I think I maybe led us astray when I listed of safeties that could play the position. The Sam is not a safety, he is a LB that has a safety-like skill set. Think Lamar Winston. 

I just wanted to throw out some names like Hill who could put on the weight to play the position. In no way do I realistically think that all of those guys would play the position.

The depth there could be made up of safeties who put on weight and lighter LBs with good coverage ability. 

The position also won’t be asked to play man coverage a great deal. The majority of Coach DeRuyter’s defense is zone coverage. 

I'm not sure his past behavior is an accurate trend for future schemes. I think that he's never had this level of talent playing for him before.  Even for his short stint at Texas A & M, and certainly not at California.

He may treat this defense much more like an NFL defense with more Press on the perimeter and less zone. He has the talent in the front seven to zone blitz and bring pressure that he's never had before. 

We shall see. There are a lot of future NFL guys that I see on the Defensive side of the ball. 

He just might these "toys" loose next fall.

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2 minutes ago, ChicoDuck said:

He has the talent in the front seven to zone blitz and bring pressure that he's never had before. 

Good gosh you know how to get my blood pumping!

Haki Woods TFL_Video.jpg

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Mr. FishDuck

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Jaden Navarrette may be a candidate for some snaps that fits the profile:

From Wholeflockofducks.com last year.

Notable strengths:

  • Ultra versatile: With Navarrette, it’s pick your poison. You want him on offense split out as a receiver or in-line as a tight end? No problem. You want him on defense as a stand up edge rusher, or a defensive end with his hand in the dirt? He’s got you covered there. Navarrette even excelled as a lead blocking fullback for fellow Oregon commit Jaydn Ott for the Norco rushing attack last season. Whatever your needs, Navarrette is athletic and versatile enough to fulfill your schematic wishes.
  • Natural pass rusher: Navarrette is a natural on the football field period, but it’s his skills as an edge rusher that could make a him a potential star. His quickness off the snap, strength at the point of attack, determined mentality pursuing the quarterback, and difficult to defend spin move are eyebrow raising qualities that make him an ideal fit for Oregon’s STUD linebacker position.
  • Knows how to use his body: This may sound like an overly vague statement, but it’s really the best way to describe Navarrette when you see him perform on film. Whether he’s deploy on offense or defense, Navarrette has a great sense of leverage and a knack for using his 6-foot-3, 235-pound frame to his advantage. This is an preternatual skill that could serve him well as he look to secure playing time in his first season.

Overall outlook:

The construction of Oregon’s 2020 recruiting class is in its infant stages, but already the Ducks have made a habit of pursuing big, versatile athletes (see Seth Figgins and Peter Latu). However, with Navarrette’s commitment Friday, Oregon head coach Mario Cristobal may have landed the best jumbo athlete of the bunch. Navarrette could realistically play a handful of positions on offense or defense whenever he arrives in Eugene, but it appears as if he’ll get his first look as an outside linebacker/rush end.

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Kinda sounds like we need another Troy Dye type player...

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47 minutes ago, ChicoDuck said:

I'm not sure his past behavior is an accurate trend for future schemes. I think that he's never had this level of talent playing for him before.  Even for his short stint at Texas A & M, and certainly not at California.

He may treat this defense much more like an NFL defense with more Press on the perimeter and less zone. He has the talent in the front seven to zone blitz and bring pressure that he's never had before. 

We shall see. There are a lot of future NFL guys that I see on the Defensive side of the ball. 

He just might these "toys" loose next fall.

Maybe, though I’d be pretty surprised if he changed what he’s done philosophically now that he’s at Oregon. Of course I don’t know that for sure. All we have to go on right now is what he’s always done.

And I’m not saying that this is what you mean, but I don’t see zone coverage as a band-aid. Especially when you’re zone blitzing.

It’ll be fun to watch. 

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29 minutes ago, David Marsh said:

Kinda sounds like we need another Troy Dye type player...

Troy Dye is a guy that popped into my head. I think he could man the position really well. 

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Just to buck the trend, I wonder if Sewell could play that position? 

He seems freakishly mobile given how big he is (saying that in the best of ways!) and we have some other guys, like a healthy Flowe, who can play the wrecking ball counterpoint LB.

It's nice to have options, anyway.

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12 hours ago, Coach Eric Boles said:

This could always be a possibility, but if I’m just going off of game tape, that hasn’t been the case for Coach DeRuyter. From what I’ve seen, he always keeps the same personnel in unless he’s in his 2-4-5 set. 

The personnel set in his scheme is what let's him be flexible without having to sub. And I think I maybe led us astray when I listed of safeties that could play the position. The Sam is not a safety, he is a LB that has a safety-like skill set. Think Lamar Winston. 

I just wanted to throw out some names like Hill who could put on the weight to play the position. In no way do I realistically think that all of those guys would play the position.

The depth there could be made up of safeties who put on weight and lighter LBs with good coverage ability. 

The position also won’t be asked to play man coverage a great deal. The majority of Coach DeRuyter’s defense is zone coverage. 

"The personnel set in his scheme is what let's him be flexible without having to sub."

I like this philosophy!  How many times did  the defense get caught trying to line up or get subs in late.  Offenses would go to hurry up and we would be penalized for 12 or look unready at the snap.  Too many personnel groups caused problems for defense by smart offensive coordinators.

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11 minutes ago, Smith72 said:

How many times did  the defense get caught trying to line up or get subs in late?

All the time....I agree with you, as I like this.

Mr. FishDuck

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Adrian Jackson might be the most explosive athlete on the D.  He can cover and blitz.  If he's healthy, I think he gets a good shot at the spot.  I would really like to see him finish his career on a high note.  

DL: Swinson, Dorlus or Williams

NT: Popo

Joker: KT

Sam: Jackson

Will: Sewell

Mike: ISM or Flowe

CB: Wright, Manning or James

FS: McKinley

SS: Hill

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An incoming freshman that might be good for this position would be Jonathan Flowe. He is quick has a great pass rush and not sure about his coverage skills but weighing 200 pounds he fits the profile.

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42 minutes ago, Dave23 said:

An incoming freshman that might be good for this position would be Jonathan Flowe. He is quick has a great pass rush and not sure about his coverage skills but weighing 200 pounds he fits the profile.

He may be a fit. He’d still need the off-season putting on weight. The guy that manned the position at Cal was 235, for example. 

Or he could me one of those smaller LBs that just thrive. 

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3 hours ago, Dave23 said:

An incoming freshman that might be good for this position would be Jonathan Flowe. He is quick has a great pass rush and not sure about his coverage skills but weighing 200 pounds he fits the profile.

Not to hijack this thread, but since  you brought it up: I'm a big Jon Flowe fan. What's the old adage "It's not the size of the dog in the fight...the size of the fight in the dog". And Jonathan Flowe is a Junkyard Dog. I'll probably take a lot of flack for this, but for the life of me I don't know why people are so jazzed about Raesjon Davis. Jonathan Flowe and Davis share the same triangle numbers and very similar athletic traits. But to be honest, after watching both films I'll take Flowe over Davis seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Why? Because of the explosion plays. Flowe is a savage. A wrecking ball. He's a Sandman. He puts people to sleep. And Davis? Not so much.

Linebackers have only two jobs. 1) They have to complete their assignments from play-to-play without fail. and 2) They have to leave welts, while doing their assignments. That's what "Explosion Plays" are. They blow people up. That's what you see on tape when you when you watch Jonathan Flowe. He knocks people into next week and re-arranges their teeth.

Getting back to this topic: could he play the SAM. Heck yeah.

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28 minutes ago, ChicoDuck said:

Flowe is a savage. A wrecking ball. He's a Sandman. He puts people to sleep.

 

28 minutes ago, ChicoDuck said:

He knocks people into next week and re-arranges their teeth.

Next week? I love the sound of that, and your tremendous description of him reminds me of this great speech....."he'll knock you into tomorrow, Rock."

 

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Mr. FishDuck

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1 hour ago, ChicoDuck said:

I don't know why people are so jazzed about Raesjon Davis

People get wrapped up by the stars... More stars and more recruits with lots of stars. It's winning the the recruitment battle.

More stars mean better recruits and that's what most fans just get stuck reading. I completely get there is a ton of nuance in evaluation... I do wish there were variations in the rankings but stuck with an arbitrary star system for now. 

I follow recruiting but I'm not a die hard... I could name some of the headliners but I couldn't name the entire class. 

I really appreciate your analysis Chico because it.is fun and readable. I usually skip over the scout recruit analysis because they all sound the same. 

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3 minutes ago, David Marsh said:

I do wish there were variations in the rankings but stuck with an arbitrary star system

It should be a 1-10 scale that takes into account more variables instead of 1-5, IMHO.

Mr. FishDuck

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3 hours ago, ChicoDuck said:

Not to hijack this thread, but since  you brought it up: I'm a big Jon Flowe fan. What's the old adage "It's not the size of the dog in the fight...the size of the fight in the dog". And Jonathan Flowe is a Junkyard Dog. I'll probably take a lot of flack for this, but for the life of me I don't know why people are so jazzed about Raesjon Davis. Jonathan Flowe and Davis share the same triangle numbers and very similar athletic traits. But to be honest, after watching both films I'll take Flowe over Davis seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Why? Because of the explosion plays. Flowe is a savage. A wrecking ball. He's a Sandman. He puts people to sleep. And Davis? Not so much.

Linebackers have only two jobs. 1) They have to complete their assignments from play-to-play without fail. and 2) They have to leave welts, while doing their assignments. That's what "Explosion Plays" are. They blow people up. That's what you see on tape when you when you watch Jonathan Flowe. He knocks people into next week and re-arranges their teeth.

Getting back to this topic: could he play the SAM. Heck yeah.

After watching his video I felt the same way. He's quick and agile and when he hits you you know it all that and he's only a 200 lb. Just think flowe and flowe on the same side of the ball now that would be awesome.

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16 hours ago, ptdduck said:

Adrian Jackson might be the most explosive athlete on the D.  He can cover and blitz.  If he's healthy, I think he gets a good shot at the spot.  I would really like to see him finish his career on a high note.  

 

Adrian Jackson was the first one I thought of when reading the position description. If the position is the equivalent of what Cameron Goode played for Cal then Jackson would fit the bill best. Jackson is 6’3” 235 with great speed. A speedy LB on the outside is a feature I missed in Avalos’ defense. Goode really did a number on the Oregon defense last year with 3.5 TFL and 1.5 TFLx
 

As for finishing his career - I hope we at least get two more seasons from Jackson, just 10 career games thus far. Jackson will be a redshirt junior with three years of eligibility since 2020 is a Mulligan. We only got to see him in 2018 as a freshman after he drew rave reviews in fall camp and in two games in 2020. 
 

Justin Flowe would be an interesting choice, although he’s a bigger guy he can really move and QBs would be scared. Not sure how well he can keep up in coverage. Jamal Hill I would prefer to see in a regular safety role, at the LOS he missed a lot of tackles by overrunning or going for the kill shot. I really like Hill’s game and he improved to the end of the season. 

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18 hours ago, ChicoDuck said:

Not to hijack this thread, but since  you brought it up: I'm a big Jon Flowe fan. What's the old adage "It's not the size of the dog in the fight...the size of the fight in the dog". And Jonathan Flowe is a Junkyard Dog. I'll probably take a lot of flack for this, but for the life of me I don't know why people are so jazzed about Raesjon Davis. Jonathan Flowe and Davis share the same triangle numbers and very similar athletic traits. But to be honest, after watching both films I'll take Flowe over Davis seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Why? Because of the explosion plays. Flowe is a savage. A wrecking ball. He's a Sandman. He puts people to sleep. And Davis? Not so much.

Linebackers have only two jobs. 1) They have to complete their assignments from play-to-play without fail. and 2) They have to leave welts, while doing their assignments. That's what "Explosion Plays" are. They blow people up. That's what you see on tape when you when you watch Jonathan Flowe. He knocks people into next week and re-arranges their teeth.

Getting back to this topic: could he play the SAM. Heck yeah.

Man,

What a great observation about Flowe.  I’m missing out here because I haven’t seen much 2020 tape, and I’m not familiar with the new DC.

If I get the time, I’m surely going to start a new thread on this topic and the overall defense.  I believe Hill is a pure safety.  I believe Jackson is the most “natural “ fit initially.

Facing today’s offenses is more difficult because there aren’t many OLBs with natural coverage skills.  Not to mention they aren’t used to seal the edges (my major pet peeve when it comes to defensive strategy period).  There are no Ronnie Lott/Troy Palomalu safeties, and very few Ray Lewis/Dick Butkus MLBs.

Nobody uses the 46 1984 Chicago Bears scheme-which is the best defense I’ve ever seen (because only Montana and Bill Walsh could attack it effectively).  

Im speaking concepts here, but in my (oversized ego) opinion (and I’m talking the size of those jumbo balloons at the Macy parade here lol), the best way to attack these offenses is dozens and dozens of attack schemes and very well masked back five coverages.  

I believe we already have two effective edge guys in Funa and Thibs.  That Sam guy would be great support in order to seal the edges completely, and Hill is nearly the ball hawk Breeze and Holland were.  So again, when it comes to concept, deceptive appearance and creating confusion is key here.  QBs and OL personnel should always have to think about what’s coming their way.  

It’s fun to play what if.  And in 2019 I believe Avalos really maximized his personnel.  That’s why it is critical for a HC to be a concept guy, and hold his coaches to high standards of executing strategy, and using the round table method of maximizing performance.  2020 should have been an awesome year.  The team is stacked, and it’s really about performance now.

If I ruled the world...LMAO.

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16 hours ago, Charles Fischer said:

It should be a 1-10 scale that takes into account more variables instead of 1-5, IMHO.

It is arbitrary as David noted, and also it can be completely backwards' the talent of the player isn't what generates the rating, but which teams are interested in him does. This is why Marcus Mariota was a 3 *.

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On 1/29/2021 at 9:37 AM, Mike West said:

What a great observation about Flowe.  I’m missing out here because I haven’t seen much 2020 tape, and I’m not familiar with the new DC.

Here's a link to his sophomore season unfortunately there's no current videos out there that I could find. Your going to need a mouth guard just to watch it.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DGyV4zKVnI4s&ved=2ahUKEwjzq_znjMTuAhUyNX0KHdWdB6QQo7QBMAN6BAgDEAE&usg=AOvVaw1PSt9MpvoumVU2eakyOWRP 

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1 hour ago, Dave23 said:

Here's a link to his sophomore season unfortunately there's no current videos out there that I could find. Your going to need a mouth guard just to watch it.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DGyV4zKVnI4s&ved=2ahUKEwjzq_znjMTuAhUyNX0KHdWdB6QQo7QBMAN6BAgDEAE&usg=AOvVaw1PSt9MpvoumVU2eakyOWRP 

Great link to his video. What I saw was quick off the ball and takes a good angle. He would be a good get if we can. 

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46 minutes ago, BigDucksFan said:

He would be a good get if we can. 

He's an incoming freshman this year and Justin's Flower's little brother! It would be great to have then line up on the same side of the ball.

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On 1/28/2021 at 7:17 AM, Smith72 said:

"The personnel set in his scheme is what let's him be flexible without having to sub."

I like this philosophy!  How many times did  the defense get caught trying to line up or get subs in late.  Offenses would go to hurry up and we would be penalized for 12 or look unready at the snap.  Too many personnel groups caused problems for defense by smart offensive coordinators.

Oregon, looks winded on defense, especially the line and backers.  We used to do this to the opponents and our defensive lines were long and fast.  KT is that and more in a nutshell.  Get these boys some reps and get them fast, let the Stash get them strong.  Finally, Eddie Pleasant was a Linebacker playing safety and if I recall correctly, was not great against the pass but blew up the screens and run defense.

 

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36 minutes ago, EzDucksIt said:

Oregon, looks winded on defense, especially the line and backers.  We used to do this to the opponents and our defensive lines were long and fast.  KT is that and more in a nutshell.  Get these boys some reps and get them fast, let the Stash get them strong.  Finally, Eddie Pleasant was a Linebacker playing safety and if I recall correctly, was not great against the pass but blew up the screens and run defense.

 

The team really did look winded. I think it was a combination of them being out of shape from some guys going home and not taking care of their conditioning and how much time the defense spent on the field. 
 

A few players looked like they had no gas in the tank early in the season. Mase Funa being the most obvious one, although he improved by the end of the season. This isn’t to say they all did. Some guys like ISM, KT, Lenoir, and Wright were on the field for what seemed like every single play. A lot of Oregon fans were unhappy with ISM this season, but man - that guy covers a lot of ground for a LB. 

The defense was out on the field a lot. The -9 turnover margin was a combo of them and the offense, that combined with inability to get the other team off the field. The depth issues with opt outs, injuries and quarantine meant that we didn’t get to see the type of substitution patterns that can ease the burden. To compensate for the time of possession deficits Nick Aliotti utilized something akin to hockey line changes, which you can’t do unless you have adequate personnel. 

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Rather Be,

I love it, kind of what I saw too.  ISM was asked to take the kind of role that Dye held for three years, his first being a learning year.  ISM was no Dye but he is a stud, just not as vocal as Dye.  Love Coach Aliotti, imagine HIM with the talent we have now.  BUT he put that talent into the NFL- Eddie Pleasant, Jordan, Buckner, Paysinger, Chung, Bird, Alonso the list goes on.  That is coaching up.  He had great help from Pellum, Neal and Coach Azz.  This kind of results shows a recruit that if they show up and excel they can put you in position to succeed at the next level.

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On 1/31/2021 at 3:40 PM, EzDucksIt said:

Rather Be,

I love it, kind of what I saw too.  ISM was asked to take the kind of role that Dye held for three years, his first being a learning year.  ISM was no Dye but he is a stud, just not as vocal as Dye.  Love Coach Aliotti, imagine HIM with the talent we have now.  BUT he put that talent into the NFL- Eddie Pleasant, Jordan, Buckner, Paysinger, Chung, Bird, Alonso the list goes on.  That is coaching up.  He had great help from Pellum, Neal and Coach Azz.  This kind of results shows a recruit that if they show up and excel they can put you in position to succeed at the next level.

The greatest thing to happen to Nick Aliotti’s legacy is Don Pellum and Brady Hoke. He went from Allowalotti to we’ll never take you for granted ever again status in three years. 

I think you and I aren’t the only ones who would love to see what he could dial up with talent all over the board instead of just some great recruits and making do with the rest. The hallmark of those defenses was the relentless aggressiveness and leaving the DBs to fend for themselves. The result? From 2007-2013 they were top ten in the country in takeaways in four times, including #1 (in 2012) and #2 - and only once outside the top-25 at #34. 
 

PS: no disrespect to Don Pellum the LB coach, just 2015 Don Pellum the DC. Even that wasn’t all on him as it was aalso a general staff failure to recruit well enough. 

 

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I was disappointed that it didn't work out for Pellum as DC. Just as a person and longtime Duck!

How about going back in time for a player who could play that role? In my memory, Anthony Newman might have been a little below the ideal size, but I have a few memories of him blowing up plays that stick with me to this day. What a player.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, FishIceCream said:

What a player.

Anthony Newman, Once a Duck always a Duck for sure, 4-0 against the Beavers, played 12 years in the NFL.

See the source image

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