Can QB Development Improve Under Dillingham?

[Smith72]

Only one way to go but up.  Herbert was held back in the "prevent offense," and young talented back ups never got game experience.

 

 

Oregon Football: Ducks looking for turnaround in QB development

DUCKSWIRE.USATODAY.COM

---

The Ducks are familiar with transfer portal QBs. However, they’ve recruited the position well under the new staff. Does that mean the QB...

 

[Nautique Duck]

I love to daydream about this stuff and speculate, but is it amazing to anyone else how many articles are “published” now with literally no new content?

 

With that said, Ty Thompson better develop or he will be passed by Dante. If spring ball comes and Dante is neck and neck with him, I suspect he transfers and butterfield starts for a while until they unleash Dante. I love Ty’s attitude and physical gifts, but he will have had two+ years to turn it on, and if it’s not clicking, he may need to move on. In my opinion, he is either “the man” by next spring, or he is never going to the be “the man” here. 

[OregonDucks]

“One of the biggest weak spots for the Oregon Ducks over the past couple of decades has been the ability to recruit and develop quarterbacks in the system.”

Perhaps it’s a typo but Oregon has a history of developing some pretty dang good QBs under Bellotti and Chip. Hopefully, Oregon can get back to that and bring back the exciting offense to go along with one of the most dominant  defenses in college football!

[Washington Waddler]

    Stars can blind some players from ever understanding what it’s really all about. No other player on the Ducks could benefit more from Lanning’s ‘de-recruitment’ philosophy than Ty.

[idontrollonshobbas]

I realize that the gloss is off of former 5-star Bo Nix three years later.  But, the fact that he transferred from an SEC-program to be with KD said a lot for the coach's acumen.  Now, with Dante Moore committing to KD, he has another big check mark in his plus column.

 

I hope KD sticks around a few years.  

 

[Log Haulin]

On 7/23/2022 at 9:10 AM, OregonDucks said:

“One of the biggest weak spots for the Oregon Ducks over the past couple of decades has been the ability to recruit and develop quarterbacks in the system.”

Perhaps it’s a typo but Oregon has a history of developing some pretty dang good QBs under Bellotti and Chip. Hopefully, Oregon can get back to that and bring back the exciting offense to go along with one of the most dominant  defenses in college football!

Helf was the OC when MM was a Duck. Gotta give Helf a ton of credit for what Marcus did. Helfrich is a good coach, just not a head coach.

[shawnski]

On 7/23/2022 at 9:43 AM, Log Haulin said:

Helf was the OC when MM was a Duck. Gotta give Helf a ton of credit for what Marcus did. Helfrich is a good coach, just not a head coach.

Not sure I agree. Marcus was amazing the first time we saw him at his first spring game. 

 

Honestly, the only improvement I saw during his career was in leadership. He was already great.

 

Helf benefitted more from Kelley than Oregon ever did from him.

 

He's held no jobs since.

 

Nice guy, that's about it. 

[David Marsh]

On 7/23/2022 at 9:10 AM, OregonDucks said:

Perhaps it’s a typo but Oregon has a history of developing some pretty dang good QBs under Bellotti and Chip. Hopefully, Oregon can get back to that and bring back the exciting offense to go along with one of the most dominant  defenses in college football

Helfrich was the one credited for finding both Mariota and Herbert. Both are statistically the top two qbs in program history. Helfrich made a huge mistake when he did not continue coaching quarterbacks. 

 

The problem sort quarterbacks is that it can be really tough to find one that can make the leap to the college system. Most don't, as we forget how few actually see the field. 

 

Now the bigger blemish for Oregon's track record in recent years is how many quarterbacks have left Oregon and ended up actually playing somewhere else. 

 

Getting a quarterback that was recruited and developed by Oregon would be huge for the program. However, in this day and age it is possible just to go transfer portal shopping every year but that has its own drawbacks. 

[DazeNconfused]

On 7/23/2022 at 9:43 AM, Log Haulin said:

Helf was the OC when MM was a Duck. Gotta give Helf a ton of credit for what Marcus did. Helfrich is a good coach, just not a head coach.

Helf was the QB coach for Masoli, Thomas and MM his first two years before Helf took the head coaching job.

 

Helf was a QB coach at Bosie St going back to like 2000 or so and then bounced around other Pac schools until he landed at Oregon. So Helf had about a decade in as a QB coach when he came to Oregon. 

 

Helf saw MM play at an Oregon camp, flew to Hawaii to watch him practice and he called Chip and got the green light to offer MM a Scholly on the spot. Helf also recruited and signed Herbs.

 

I'd hire Helf as an OC-QB coach 366 days a year!

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by DazeNconfused

[DazeNconfused]

On 7/23/2022 at 10:18 AM, shawnski said:

Not sure I agree. Marcus was amazing the first time we saw him at his first spring game. 

 

Honestly, the only improvement I saw during his career was in leadership. He was already great.

 

Helf benefitted more from Kelley than Oregon ever did from him.

 

He's held no jobs since.

 

Nice guy, that's about it. 

Helf was MM's QB coach, so he looked awesome that first spring game because of Helf, not Chip.

 

Chip Kelly has never been a QB coach, ever. Chip started as a DB-Special teams coach, Was RB coach 3 years a New Hampshire and even spent one year as a DC.  Chip later became the OC at New Hampshire but he has never been a QB coach.

 

Helf was also the OC of the Chicago Bears for two years in like 2018-19.

[DazeNconfused]

On 7/23/2022 at 10:30 AM, David Marsh said:

Helfrich was the one credited for finding both Mariota and Herbert. Both are statistically the top two qbs in program history. Helfrich made a huge mistake when he did not continue coaching quarterbacks. 

 

The problem sort quarterbacks is that it can be really tough to find one that can make the leap to the college system. Most don't, as we forget how few actually see the field. 

 

Now the bigger blemish for Oregon's track record in recent years is how many quarterbacks have left Oregon and ended up actually playing somewhere else. 

 

Getting a quarterback that was recruited and developed by Oregon would be huge for the program. However, in this day and age it is possible just to go transfer portal shopping every year but that has its own drawbacks. 

I agree, Helf is a solid QB coach.

 

Scott Frost became the OC-QB coach when Helf took the head coach job, and he is a pretty dang good QB coach too. 

 

After Frost left, we hired David Yost the Blonde-haired Surfer Dude (Spicoli looking) from Wazzu. He was topflight QB coach as he put Chase Daniles and another QB into the NFL out of Missouri. Taggart cut him loose and that was a HUGE mistake to me.

 

He ended up at Utah State as the OC-QB under Matt Wells and then moved to Texas Tech when Wells got the job. In 2018 Yost was a semifinalist for the Broyles award as the OC for Texas Tech and we had Arroyo and the Broken Pistol. 

 

Just think if we'd have had Yost with Herbs...............

 

Edit..

Blaine Gabbert was the other QB at Missouri Yost worked with and then Jordan Love at Utah State who the Packers drafted 1st round in 2020 to be Rodger's replacement someday. Just think if Willie had kept Yost as his QB coach and then Mario had made Yost his OC how things could have been. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by DazeNconfused

[McDuck]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:01 AM, DazeNconfused said:

Chip Kelly has never been a QB coach, ever.

Wasn't he the QB coach during his stint as OC under Bellotti?  I seem to remember stories crediting him for the dramatic improvement of Dennis Dixon after working with him in the offseason.

[OregonDucks]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:01 AM, DazeNconfused said:

 

Chip Kelly has never been a QB coach, ever.

 

Ummm. Who was the QB Coach when Chip was the OC at New Hampshire and Oregon? 

[shawnski]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:20 AM, McDuck said:

Wasn't he the QB coach during his stint as OC under Bellotti?  I seem to remember stories crediting him for the dramatic improvement of Dennis Dixon after working with him in the offseason.

Indeed. The "QB Coach" thing is smoke and mirrors and a bit of wishfull thinking.

 

Kelley as a good OC was the best "QB Coach" Oregon has had. He designed a system for the player, but was also revolutionary enough to keep Defenses off-balance.

 

There just isn't enough evidence to show anything Helf did wasn't really just Kelley and he was riding along.

 

When Helf was alone, it fell apart. 

 

Nice guy, lots of jargon, not much for results.

[DazeNconfused]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:38 AM, OregonDucks said:

Ummm. Who was the QB Coach when Chip was the OC at New Hampshire and Oregon? 

 

On 7/23/2022 at 11:20 AM, McDuck said:

Wasn't he the QB coach during his stint as OC under Bellotti?  I seem to remember stories crediting him for the dramatic improvement of Dennis Dixon after working with him in the offseason.

I just wrote an article a week ago that I had to look up Chips stuff on Wiki. Chip was never listed as a QB coach at any of his stops, and they always seem to have that stuff listed.

 

So, if the information I read was wrong then, I could be wrong. 

Chip was almost 20 years in coaching before he became an OC, and was never a QB coach before that. 

 

It did blow my mind to see Chip was the DC at John Hopkins in the early 90's. 

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by DazeNconfused

[David Marsh]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:05 AM, DazeNconfused said:

I agree, Helf is a solid QB coach.

 

Scott Frost became the OC-QB coach when Helf took the head coach job, and he is a pretty dang good QB coach too. 

 

After Frost left, we hired David Yost the Blonde-haired Surfer Dude (Spicoli looking) from Wazzu. He was topflight QB coach as he put Chase Daniles and another QB into the NFL out of Missouri. Taggart cut him loose and that was a HUGE mistake to me.

I always thought Frost was a good upper level quarterback coach. Think of him as the coach who teaches QBing 301, he did a great job with Mariota and Adams but both were already incredible products that needed to continue to be polished. 

 

However, Frost as the qb coach at Oregon never developed a QB from scratch that was reliable on the field. Oregon went through a ton of four star recruits that were beaten out by.... Jeff Lockie??? 

 

Then before 2015 all those players who couldn't beaten out Lockie, and Lockie himself, we're then beaten out by Adams who arrived late to fall camp as he scrambled to complete a math credit. 

 

I do firmly believe Helfrich saw this problem and brought in Yost who did get Herbert ready and Prukop gets a bad rap but he honestly wasn't that bad ... Oregon just didn't have a defense. 

 

Then I won't even start on Taggart... He's an article onto himself at this point. 

[DazeNconfused]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:39 AM, shawnski said:

Indeed. The "QB Coach" thing is smoke and mirrors and a bit of wishfull thinking.

 

Kelley as a good OC was the best "QB Coach" Oregon has had. He designed a system for the player, but was also revolutionary enough to keep Defenses off-balance.

 

There just isn't enough evidence to show anything Helf did wasn't really just Kelley and he was riding along.

 

When Helf was alone, it fell apart. 

 

Nice guy, lots of jargon, not much for results.

Helf was with Dirk Koetter at Bosie where Koetter got his first head coaching job after being the Ducks OC for two years under Bellotti. Helf followed Koetter to ASU as the QB coach and eventually became OC. Those ASU teams had some good offense and Helf's QB Andrew Walters rocked and went the NFL and set Pac records.

 

Then Bellitti hired Helf back to Oregon as his QB coach and Chip then made Helf his OC. 

Certainly, Helf lacked as a head coach.

 

But Belotti, Dirk Koetter and Chip thought super highly of Helf as a QB coach offensive mind, and those rates in my book. 

[Charles Fischer]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:39 AM, shawnski said:

Indeed. The "QB Coach" thing is smoke and mirrors and a bit of wishfull thinking.

 

Kelley as a good OC was the best "QB Coach" Oregon has had. He designed a system for the player, but was also revolutionary enough to keep Defenses off-balance.

 

There just isn't enough evidence to show anything Helf did wasn't really just Kelley and he was riding along.

 

When Helf was alone, it fell apart. 

 

Nice guy, lots of jargon, not much for results.

You know...I see a ton of posts that I could really heap tons of proof to refute...and I often let them pass because I do not have the time or energy at the moment to do so.  But this one deserves some response...because yours-truly was writing articles and doing analysis articles and videos through the entire Chip Kelly/Mark Helfrich era.  I worked with very knowledgeable coaches and this site was a "must-read" in that time period for a lot of emerging coaches.

 

You may have your opinion, and we will disagree.

 

Helfrich designed superb game plans for Chip Kelly, and when Kelly left...it did not stop.  I agree that Mark was a terrible head coach, as he did not exude leadership, did not hire well and did not correct hiring mistakes.  But he was a great offensive coordinator and quarterback coach.  And like DazeNconfused....I would take Helfrich back in a heartbeat.

 

Gameplans of the Oregon Spread Offense: Helfrich versus Kelly

FISHDUCK.COM

---

An examination of the unique components that Chip Kelly used in his gameplans and how Coach Helfrich has fared in comparison.

 

[David Marsh]

On 7/23/2022 at 12:09 PM, DazeNconfused said:

But Belotti, Dirk Koetter and Chip thought super highly of Helf as a QB coach offensive mind, and those rates in my book. 

I love this current Oregon staff but when Dillingham moves on I wouldn't mind seeing Helfrich come back as the OC. I've been saying this for years. His offense was an improvement over the Kelly offense, it wasn't crazy in how it changed but a few tweaks, some deeper shots, and it was deadly.

[DazeNconfused]

On 7/23/2022 at 12:04 PM, David Marsh said:

I always thought Frost was a good upper level quarterback coach. Think of him as the coach who teaches QBing 301, he did a great job with Mariota and Adams but both were already incredible products that needed to continue to be polished. 

 

However, Frost as the qb coach at Oregon never developed a QB from scratch that was reliable on the field. Oregon went through a ton of four star recruits that were beaten out by.... Jeff Lockie??? 

 

Then before 2015 all those players who couldn't beaten out Lockie, and Lockie himself, we're then beaten out by Adams who arrived late to fall camp as he scrambled to complete a math credit. 

 

I do firmly believe Helfrich saw this problem and brought in Yost who did get Herbert ready and Prukop gets a bad rap but he honestly wasn't that bad ... Oregon just didn't have a defense. 

 

Then I won't even start on Taggart... He's an article onto himself at this point. 

I only remember three 4-star QB's Jake Rodrigues and Morgan Mahalak and Travis Jonsen. J-Rod transferred with Bennet because of MM, and then Mahalak and Jonsen got jumped in fall camp by Herbs for QB2 and they bailed. 

 

I can't say Frost failed when three 4-star QB's bailed out because of two high 1st round QB's won the job.

 

Didn't Forst have a good QB at UCF when they went undefeated? McKenzie Militon? dude had bad leg injury?

 

edit.. I forgot to reply to the Adams comment you made. VA would have got a Heisman invite to NY if he didn't get hurt. His pass per yards, passer rating was in line with MM and he would have had well over 100 more completions, 1000 yards and 10 more TD's if he played the whole season. So, i have a hard time blaming Frost for not having a guy who could beat him out. 

 

But I do get your point, Frost never really MADE his own guy, he took good QB's and had success.

Edited July 23, 2022 by DazeNconfused

[David Marsh]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:39 AM, shawnski said:

When Helf was alone, it fell apart. 

 

Nice guy, lots of jargon, not much for results.

There were some pretty good results under Helfrich... 1 Alamo Bowl win (the last two have been awful by the way), 1 Rose Bowl win, a National Championship appearance, and Oregon's first and only Heisman winner in Marcus Mariota.

 

Yes, you could say that he did it with "Kelly's recruits" which is somewhat true, but Helfrich was also on that staff and he worked to do a lot of that recruiting as well and if you dig right now into it, Kelly relied heavily on the recruiting skills of Oregon's long tenured staff and Heflrich's recruiting wasn't that bad or at least not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

 

A Defense of Helfrich's Recruiting Legacy

FISHDUCK.COM

---

Mark Helfrich is generally considered the worst recruiter in modern Oregon football history. He is a coach who oversaw some of...

 

Additionally... if you want to take the "Helf won with Kelly's recruits" argument... then Kelly won with Bellotti's recruits.

 

There is a lot to unpack in the end of the Helfrich era and I do find it absolutely fascinating. We tend to like to shove coaches into a good or bad column and call it good at that but the reality is coaches are human and they all have some good and bad qualities. Let's just look briefly at Cristobal... the guy can recruit and brought in some of the best talent in Oregon's history but the sad truth of it all is... he won his biggest games (the 2019 season) with a whole lot of Helfrich's recruits. (Herbert, 4/5 of the offensive line, Verdell (recruited by Helfrich and then signed by Taggart), Troy Dye, Brady Breeze and more)

 

Anyways... I'll probably need to write an article now to dissect the Helfrich era because now I'm thinking on it too much.

[Haywarduck]

I would say it is preparing the qb, and then designing an offense to highlight a qb's strengths is the magic. I would agree Helfrich was the master at this, but he is damaged goods at Oregon, and I doubt he will ever sit on our sidelines again.  

 

Developing a qb who, undoubtedly has had massive coaching before he hits college, especially a 5* or 4* qb, isn't what I see as critical in coaching a college qb. One needs to layer on the expectations while dialing up the offense to fits a qb's skills. A qb coach also looks brilliant when you have wideouts who can get open and catch a contested ball. 

 

We haven't been great at giving our qb's targets for a while, and that also needs to change. The good news is that has changed, and I look for that to help greatly this season.

 

With our previous coach he layered on one layer of expectations, a couple simple throws. He never dialed up the offense, and there just wasn't any qb offense, at least what we have come to expect. After the Stanford game I was shocked more teams didn't take advantage of the all too predictable sideline throw. Why we didn't see multiple pick sixes I will never know.

 

With Dilly I think he knows how to put in plays for certain qb's. There are only so many things a qb, or really anyone, can deal with at any one time. Dilly will design a qb offense which has just the right expectations, and then push the qb just enough to again have Oregon looked upon as a qb destination, not just transfers. 

[DazeNconfused]

On 7/23/2022 at 12:25 PM, David Marsh said:

There were some pretty good results under Helfrich... 1 Alamo Bowl win (the last two have been awful by the way), 1 Rose Bowl win, a National Championship appearance, and Oregon's first and only Heisman winner in Marcus Mariota.

 

Yes, you could say that he did it with "Kelly's recruits" which is somewhat true, but Helfrich was also on that staff and he worked to do a lot of that recruiting as well and if you dig right now into it, Kelly relied heavily on the recruiting skills of Oregon's long tenured staff and Heflrich's recruiting wasn't that bad or at least not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

 

A Defense of Helfrich's Recruiting Legacy

FISHDUCK.COM

---

Mark Helfrich is generally considered the worst recruiter in modern Oregon football history. He is a coach who oversaw some of...

 

Additionally... if you want to take the "Helf won with Kelly's recruits" argument... then Kelly won with Bellotti's recruits.

 

There is a lot to unpack in the end of the Helfrich era and I do find it absolutely fascinating. We tend to like to shove coaches into a good or bad column and call it good at that but the reality is coaches are human and they all have some good and bad qualities. Let's just look briefly at Cristobal... the guy can recruit and brought in some of the best talent in Oregon's history but the sad truth of it all is... he won his biggest games (the 2019 season) with a whole lot of Helfrich's recruits. (Herbert, 4/5 of the offensive line, Verdell (recruited by Helfrich and then signed by Taggart), Troy Dye, Brady Breeze and more)

 

Anyways... I'll probably need to write an article now to dissect the Helfrich era because now I'm thinking on it too much.

Good post! Write that article up! Helf is always a conversation topic.

 

I thought he was too soft a type of guy personality wise, and a team takes on a coached demeanor. I like me a Dave Wannstedt type coach. Helf also appeared to make bad moves with Coach Pellum and then Brady Hooke.

 

But maybe our defense was bound to fall apart without Coach Alliotti, looking back the man was really a great DC and that was overshadowed by the high-flying offense. 

 

Helf really needed to lean on Mullens, Knight and should have thrown huge money at a TOP DC.

[David Marsh]

On 7/23/2022 at 12:19 PM, DazeNconfused said:

edit.. I forgot to reply to the Adams comment you made. VA would have got a Heisman invite to NY if he didn't get hurt. His pass per yards, passer rating was in line with MM and he would have had well over 100 more completions, 1000 yards and 10 more TD's if he played the whole season. So, i have a hard time blaming Frost for not having a guy who could beat him out. 

Shameless self promotion... I too agree that Adams would have gotten a NY Heisman invite if he stayed healthy ... And possibly more. 

 

What If Vernon Adams Didn't Break His Finger in 2015?

FISHDUCK.COM

---

The 2015 season saw Oregon turn to a one-year graduate transfer in Vernon Adams, and that move could have led to so much more than the 9-4 record shows.

 

 

[McDuck]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:50 AM, DazeNconfused said:

 

I just wrote an article a week ago that I had to look up Chips stuff on Wiki. Chip was never listed as a QB coach at any of his stops, and they always seem to have that stuff listed.

 

So, if they information I read was wrong then, I could be wrong. 

Chip was almost 20 years in coaching before he became an OC, and was never a QB coach before that. 

 

It did blow my mind to see Chip was the DC at John Hopkins in the early 90's. 

 

From a goducks.com bio...

 

The program’s recent plug-and-play success can be traced to Kelly’s first season in Eugene, when Oregon was forced to start four different quarterbacks over the final four games due to injury in 2007. Kelly, then serving in dual roles as offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach, tutored the final signal caller of that bunch, redshirt freshman Justin Roper, who turned in a near flawless performance in guiding the Ducks to a 56-21 Sun Bowl win over favored South Florida.

    The 48-year-old Kelly served as New Hampshire’s offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach from 1999 through 2006, where his offenses averaged better than 400 yards of total offense in seven of his eight seasons and more than 30 points a game in his final four years. As a result, three Wildcat players received first-team All-America acclaim each of his last two seasons in the Granite State.

[DazeNconfused]

On 7/23/2022 at 1:39 PM, McDuck said:

From a goducks.com bio...

 

The program’s recent plug-and-play success can be traced to Kelly’s first season in Eugene, when Oregon was forced to start four different quarterbacks over the final four games due to injury in 2007. Kelly, then serving in dual roles as offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach, tutored the final signal caller of that bunch, redshirt freshman Justin Roper, who turned in a near flawless performance in guiding the Ducks to a 56-21 Sun Bowl win over favored South Florida.

    The 48-year-old Kelly served as New Hampshire’s offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach from 1999 through 2006, where his offenses averaged better than 400 yards of total offense in seven of his eight seasons and more than 30 points a game in his final four years. As a result, three Wildcat players received first-team All-America acclaim each of his last two seasons in the Granite State.

I stand corrected. Wiki's normally coaching position information solid. 

 

Chip is a trip and my math sucks. Chip was 9 years coaching DB/special teams, OLB/safeties, 1 year as a DC, two years as OL coach and 3 years RB coach, and then went to OC? 

 

Who does that, and then excels? 

 

When Wiki listed him as only OC and not QB coach at New Hampshire and Oregon I thought it was strange, but I already thought his first 9 years was a strange path to OC! I knew he had Helf after two years at Oregon, so I took Wiki at its word. 

 

There must be more Chips story at New Hampshire before he became OC that's missing. I would think he must have been acting like a CO-OC before he just jumped in as OC. I would also think he has spent some time with an OC coach working with OB's?

 

How do you just jump into OC-QB coach cold turkey?

 

 

Chip Kelly - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

 

[shawnski]

On 7/23/2022 at 12:15 PM, Charles Fischer said:

You know...I see a ton of posts that I could really heap tons of proof to refute...and I often let them pass because I do not have the time or energy at the moment to do so.  But this one deserves some response...because yours-truly was writing articles and doing analysis articles and videos through the entire Chip Kelly/Mark Helfrich era.  I worked with very knowledgeable coaches and this site was a "must-read" in that time period for a lot of emerging coaches.

 

You may have your opinion, and we will disagree.

 

Helfrich designed superb game plans for Chip Kelly, and when Kelly left...it did not stop.  I agree that Mark was a terrible head coach, as he did not exude leadership, did not hire well and did not correct hiring mistakes.  But he was a great offensive coordinator and quarterback coach.  And like DazeNconfused....I would take Helfrich back in a heartbeat.

 

Gameplans of the Oregon Spread Offense: Helfrich versus Kelly

FISHDUCK.COM

---

An examination of the unique components that Chip Kelly used in his gameplans and how Coach...

 

Yes we do disagree 

 

I could point out many big games where Helfs game plans not only weren't great, but cost them the game IMHO.

 

That's OK, and you certainly can't win them all.

 

What is truly the most interesting to me is why did it go so bad when he was alone?

 

At the time I honestly thought he'd be the best Oregon coach of all time.

 

Nope 

[Log Haulin]

On 7/23/2022 at 7:55 PM, shawnski said:

Yes we do disagree 

 

I could point out many big games where Helfs game plans not only weren't great, but cost them the game IMHO.

 

That's OK, and you certainly can't win them all.

 

What is truly the most interesting to me is why did it go so bad when he was alone?

 

At the time I honestly thought he'd be the best Oregon coach of all time.

 

Nope 

Some guys just can't be the boss. Helfs not the only one. Mariø comes to mind.

[Charles Fischer]

On 7/23/2022 at 7:55 PM, shawnski said:

 

What is truly the most interesting to me is why did it go so bad when he was alone?

I answered that already above, and wrote an article about it...

 

                            "You deserve to be fired."

How Brady Hoke Got Mark Helfrich FIRED

FISHDUCK.COM

---

Charles Fischer of FishDuck.com provides another set of examples showing how Oregon's defense is poorly coached, and will result in the firing of Mark Helfrich.

 

[shawnski]

On 7/23/2022 at 1:01 PM, David Marsh said:

Shameless self promotion... I too agree that Adams would have gotten a NY Heisman invite if he stayed healthy ... And possibly more. 

 

What If Vernon Adams Didn't Break His Finger in 2015?

FISHDUCK.COM

---

The 2015 season saw Oregon turn to a one-year graduate transfer in Vernon Adams, and that move could have led to so much more than the 9-4 record shows.

 

 

Adams was one of the best college QBs I've had the privilege to watch. 

 

Moved up a class, came in with no prep at the last minute and rocked the Pac12. 

 

His instincts and ability to scramble and find a man downfield were unworldly.

 

Plus he beat the Beavs twice,  once as an Eagle, and once as a Duck 

[David Marsh]

On 7/23/2022 at 8:04 PM, shawnski said:

Plus he beat the Beavs twice,  once as an Eagle, and once as a Duck 

Would have beaten the Huskies twice as well if he didn't have to sit due to dehydration coupled with his cycle cell. EWU didn't lose by much when he played against Washington... And he sat out for a good chunk of the second quarter to get iv fluids. 

[DazeNconfused]

On 7/23/2022 at 8:04 PM, Charles Fischer said:

I answered that already above, and wrote an article about it...

 

                            "You deserve to be fired."

How Brady Hoke Got Mark Helfrich FIRED

FISHDUCK.COM

---

Charles Fischer of FishDuck.com provides another set of examples showing how Oregon's defense is poorly coached, and will result in the firing of Mark Helfrich.

 

That article were straight facts. There must have been something behind the scenes going on, because Pellum coached linebackers for over a decade under Bellotti.

 

It's almost like Pellum was sabotaging the Ducks because we never saw that bad of play. The linebackers were terrible that year in pass defense all year, it was like they never watched film and got coached up. They made the same bad read and missed assignments all year long and it didn't improve. 

 

Jim Leavitt turned the defense on a dime the next year.

[David Marsh]

On 7/23/2022 at 10:07 PM, DazeNconfused said:

Jim Leavitt turned the defense on a dime the next year.

Interesting thing I found was that Hoke changed the base defense from a 3-4 to a 4-3 and I do recall Aliotti saying that that was a risky move because Oregon didn't have the number of defensive linemen in the the roster to provide the needed depth. 

 

Then Leavitt came in and took the Oregon personnel and flipped them back to an 3-4 which is what that roster was designed to do. That and a better coached scheme were only two parts of the quick turnaround. 

[Mike West]

On 7/23/2022 at 12:25 PM, David Marsh said:

There were some pretty good results under Helfrich... 1 Alamo Bowl win (the last two have been awful by the way), 1 Rose Bowl win, a National Championship appearance, and Oregon's first and only Heisman winner in Marcus Mariota.

 

Yes, you could say that he did it with "Kelly's recruits" which is somewhat true, but Helfrich was also on that staff and he worked to do a lot of that recruiting as well and if you dig right now into it, Kelly relied heavily on the recruiting skills of Oregon's long tenured staff and Heflrich's recruiting wasn't that bad or at least not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

 

A Defense of Helfrich's Recruiting Legacy

FISHDUCK.COM

---

Mark Helfrich is generally considered the worst recruiter in modern Oregon football history. He is a coach who oversaw some of...

 

Additionally... if you want to take the "Helf won with Kelly's recruits" argument... then Kelly won with Bellotti's recruits.

 

There is a lot to unpack in the end of the Helfrich era and I do find it absolutely fascinating. We tend to like to shove coaches into a good or bad column and call it good at that but the reality is coaches are human and they all have some good and bad qualities. Let's just look briefly at Cristobal... the guy can recruit and brought in some of the best talent in Oregon's history but the sad truth of it all is... he won his biggest games (the 2019 season) with a whole lot of Helfrich's recruits. (Herbert, 4/5 of the offensive line, Verdell (recruited by Helfrich and then signed by Taggart), Troy Dye, Brady Breeze and more)

 

Anyways... I'll probably need to write an article now to dissect the Helfrich era because now I'm thinking on it too much.

 

 

 Helfrich was the key when Arizona embarrassed OBD in Tuscon on national TV. He immediate started challenging the defense to live up to it's billing.  

 

Helfrich did exactly what a HC is supposed to do in that situation, he coached his team up.  He challenged his talented group, and they responded.  They didn't get there by themselves, the were led there.  They avenged a bitter loss, and dethroned the defending national champs. 

 

They took on a hot team,. They were down 21-20 going into the fourth quarter with inexperienced linebackers and without two starting WRs.  Against a juggernaut at that ( some fourteen OSU players were drafted from that 2014 team).  Helfrich was responsible for that Natty appearance (Chip was long gone).

 

 Chip didn't get them back to the Natty.  Helfrich did, and Chip had more talent on defense to go with that awesome offense of his.  More players got drafted under Chip than Helfrich.  But Helfrich got his title shot.  

 

Never forget that.

 

It took a seriously flawed individual to expose we wasted five years believing we couldn't bring elite talent to Eugene. And Helfrich put OBD in position to win the Natty with a declining set of talent.

 

Ponder that for awhile.  Because we just lucked out by losing a coach that ruined a damn good shot at a title in 2019, Not to mention that flawed character that may have brought us one in 2018.  

 

Always cherish an accomplishment like Helfrich's.  He's in rare company.  Very, very few coaches EVER ready the playoffs, much less the Natty itself. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Mike West

[Haywarduck]

Much of this has been said before, but the players on the field led Helfrich's team. Mariota didn't just win the Heisman, he won over the whole team, and he had Grasu snapping him the ball. Nobody wanted to let down Marcus, and there was strong leadership under Marcus too with Lowe, a stacked O-line and a young Royce. On defense with Buckner and Armstead along with Balducci and Ifo it was formidable too. 

 

After many of these guys left the culture which had been nurtured was gone. Helfirch's genius wasn't and isn't in creating a culture, and that is one thing we are excited to see develop under Lanning. It isn't just about the X's and O's. It is about the culture the coaches promote and the players who buy in.

 

The players seem to be buying into team Lanning. It will be interesting to see what that buy in gets us. With Helfrich there wasn't buy in from the players, just within the amazing group of players at the time.

 

Helfrich was much like Ernie, only as good as the strong, on the field, court leadership was.