PAC-12: You Better Get Your Rear in Gear, or May You Rest in Peace

[FishDuck Article]

(We have a guest article today from a fellow Oregon fan in Nevada, as we wish to welcome Byron Bergeron and discuss his important topic in the OBD forum) The Pac-12’s media contracts have long been abysmal. Not just bad, but atrocious. Why would UCLA or USC want to remain in the Pac 12? They embody the No. 2 media ...

 

 

PAC-12: You Better Get Your Rear in Gear, or May You Rest in Peace

FISHDUCK.COM

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(We have a guest article today from a fellow Oregon fan in Nevada, as we wish to welcome Byron Bergeron and discuss his important topic...

 

[Pennsylvania Duck]

Welcome, Byron. I enjoyed reading your article and look for more from you. Every time I read about adding new conference members, I find George K saying a new media deal needs to get done first. I don't understand why that is the case. Wouldn't it make more sense to add members, then negotiate? It seems to me your value would be higher with the right members added.

[debbieduck]

 

On 10/13/2022 at 4:57 AM, Pennsylvania Duck said:

Welcome, Byron. I enjoyed reading your article and look for more from you. Every time I read about adding new conference members, I find George K saying a new media deal needs to get done first. I don't understand why that is the case. Wouldn't it make more sense to add members, then negotiate? It seems to me your value would be higher with the right members added.

Who would we add to make a media company find us more valuable?

[florida duck]

Great article, The only exception i take is i live in Florida and have watched every duck game.  With fubo and the added pac 12 network, they cover all games so far this season.

[Notalot]

Well done Byron.I am in the camp that reasons the SEC and B1G will remain the power conferences, so joining the B1G is the safest option to cosummate now.

 

Rebuilding the former Pac12 into a 20-24 team Western Conference by adding teams with the highest media ratings, including the strongest candidates from SoCal and Texas, along with robbing the Big12 and Mountain West, is an option that is good, but would be too long in the making.

[Pennsylvania Duck]

On 10/13/2022 at 8:27 AM, debbieduck said:

Who would we add that going to make a media company find us more valuable?

Hi Debbie. I like adding San Diego State and what if we tried poaching some of the Big 12 schools that make sense from a media standpoint in Texas.

Can the PAC change their stance with BYU? Also, there is talk of a "loose alliance" with the ACC. Is that still a possibility because I think that

could improve money for both conferences.

 

It just seems like the PAC-12 sits back and watches everyone else do their thing first and we play catch-up. I just don't know if a conference of 10 members

is easily going to survive in the long run. I'd like to see some creativity from the Pac-12 to improve this situation.

 

[debbieduck]

On 10/13/2022 at 7:03 AM, Pennsylvania Duck said:

Hi Debbie. I like adding San Diego State and what if we tried poaching some of the Big 12 schools that make sense from a media standpoint in Texas.

Can the PAC change their stance with BYU? Also, there is talk of a "loose alliance" with the ACC. Is that still a possibility because I think that

could improve money for both conferences.

 

It just seems like the PAC-12 sits back and watches everyone else do their thing first and we play catch-up. I just don't know if a conference of 10 members

is easily going to survive in the long run. I'd like to see some creativity from the Pac-12 to improve this situation.

 

Texas is extremely rich in dollars and tradition. That would be a fish worth poaching. 

[Roguedog]

On 10/13/2022 at 6:04 AM, florida duck said:

Great article, The only exception i take is i live in Florida and have watched every duck game.  With fubo and the added pac 12 network, they cover all games so far this season.

I think it might be Nevada, a lot of people in the South seem to have a stronger consumer position. They just can't understand why Dish won't work with me and believe me they give me a hard time about it. I also was not about to cut the cord and then purchase every streaming service individually.

[debbieduck]

My concern is about the Big 12.  I think it will be easier for them to poach Utah, Colorado, and both Arizona schools, then for us to get a few of them.  
 

Those four Pac schools are geographically suitable for Big 12.  
 

I keep waiting to hear that talk.  

[Mic]

This is a good article and I enjoyed reading it.  But It left me puzzled when I read this portion:

 

"I have purchased Direct TV and I have purchased Sling Orange/Blue. Yet, to no avail, I was only able to pick up the Oregon-Arizona game halfway through the 3rd quarter via YouTube."

 

I had no difficulty (outside of navigating thru a tortuous user un-friendly and cumbersome channel guide) finding he OregonArizona game (on two different channels, Pac-12 Arizona & Pac-12 Oregon) with our Sling Orange/Blue subscription.  I don't know why the author was unable to do so as well.

 

Does channel availability vary on Sling region to region?

[Roguedog]

On 10/13/2022 at 5:27 AM, debbieduck said:

 

Who would we add that going to make a media company find us more valuable?

University of Houston, San Diego State, San Jose State, Fresno State, University of New Mexico, UNLV? When you think about it Rutgers is not exactly New York, it is New Jersey. I think the Big is trying to get a foot in the door and they did. The SEC is now trying to expand to 16 teams and will likely do so with Texas and Oklahoma. There is no talk of the Pac expanding anywhere. We are 4 media markets behind, about to lose LA and the west coast media markets are smaller. We just need more profits, we do not have to be the most profitable. We do have to be more desirable than other content.

[Roguedog]

On 10/13/2022 at 6:52 AM, Notalot said:

Well done Byron.I am in the camp that reasons the SEC and B1G will remain the power conferences, so joining the B1G is the safest option to cosummate now.

 

Rebuilding the former Pac12 into a 20-24 team Western Conference by adding teams with the highest media ratings, including the strongest candidates from SoCal and Texas, along with robbing the Big12 and Mountain West, is an option that is good, but would be too long in the making.

I cannot disagree with that position. I am not exactly interested in forfeiting tradition. That is a lot of travel. I think the college football landscape is leaning toward two major conferences and that seems like an inferior concept (boring). I think we need to include more Cinderella teams.

[Mic]

San Diego State, Fresno State make sense to me.  Why no mention of Boise State?

[Roguedog]

On 10/13/2022 at 7:45 AM, Mic said:

This is a good article and I enjoyed reading it.  But It left me puzzled when I read this portion:

 

"I have purchased Direct TV and I have purchased Sling Orange/Blue. Yet, to no avail, I was only able to pick up the Oregon-Arizona game halfway through the 3rd quarter via YouTube."

 

I had no difficulty (outside of navigating thru a tortuous user un-friendly and cumbersome channel guide) finding he OregonArizona game (on two different channels, Pac-12 Arizona & Pac-12 Oregon) with our Sling Orange/Blue subscription.  I don't know why the author was unable to do so as well.

 

Does channel availability vary on Sling region to region?

I do not know the answer to that. Which is probably why it tortuous for me as well.

[Roguedog]

On 10/13/2022 at 5:27 AM, debbieduck said:

 

Who would we add to make a media company find us more valuable?

I think we need to add re negotiate and add re negotiate as much as any other major conference. So both. It may require shorter media contracts so they can be modified with the addition of new teams and media markets. It may require a provision that allows the media contract to be re negotiated if the Pac 12 expands. It does not seem to be a problem for the BIG or the SEC.

[Charles Fischer]

I invite guest articles, appreciate all views and enjoyed chatting with Byron...but I disagree with him.  Adding more teams and splitting the pie that much more lowers our revenue per school, and I think we have other options before it is over.

 

Adding a streamer, and now the new 12-team playoff will be a boon to Oregon, IMHO, as we will have a much greater probability to going to it with what Lanning is building.  Add to that a new revenue-sharing contract to where the team that goes to a bowl game or playoff gets half the payout, not a tenth.  That alone will change Oregon's revenues and over a five year period could bring us into similar payouts as the B1G.

 

I believe that Oregon could become the "Clemson of the West" where we dominate a conference, (or like Gonzaga in basketball in the WCC) go to playoffs often, and recruit well nationally on our status and revived national brand.

 

And I do think adding San Diego State makes sense, and then that is it.  "We are the Pac-12 with 11 teams?"  Yep, since that is the trendy thing these days.  The B1G is not ten teams, nor is the Big-12 a total of twelve teams...in fact are any named correctly?  We would fit right in.

 

It is still too early to tell, but we may end up being alright staying in the Pac-12, and adding only SDST.

 

[noDucknewby]

As much as I hate to admit it, the conference will never be the same without the LA schools, both economically (media market) and in terms of tradition.  USC (football) and UCLA (basketball) are the only true conference bluebloods.  While the collapse of the Pac-12 would sadden me, my loyalties are to Oregon first, so the question to me is what's best for the Ducks?  There's no doubt in my mind that we can be nationally competitive in a newly restructured Pac-? within a newly expanded CFP.  That said, how do we stay close enough in the massive money grab to avoid fading into obscurity?

 

Let's face it, the Pac-12 is not in a postion of strength.  Our expansion options are limited and ultimately controlled by the ivory tower academics.  Are we destined to become a boutique academic and olympic sport conference?

 

As for the B1G, I think eventually the invite comes.  My heart says stay but me head says go.

[Roguedog]

On 10/13/2022 at 7:50 AM, Mic said:

San Diego State, Fresno State make sense to me.  Why no mention of Boise State?

Because Boise State is not a large media market. They can certainly ball. I do not think Boise would have any difficulty playing at a high level. They already do play at a very high level.

[Mic]

On 10/13/2022 at 8:38 AM, Roguedog said:

Because Boise State is not a large media market. They can certainly ball. I do not think Boise would have any difficulty playing at a high level. They already do play at a very high level.

At just over 245,000 yes, they are not a large market but they 'own' almost the entire state of Idaho.  What's more, when we vacation in Northern Nevada it's not uncommon to see Bronco flags and gear in that area as well. People like their style of play and their proclivity of giving bigger programs fits.

[Mic]

On 10/13/2022 at 8:02 AM, Charles Fischer said:

I believe that Oregon could become the "Clemson of the West" where we dominate a conference, (or like Gonzaga in basketball in the WCC) go to playoffs often, and recruit well nationally on our status and revived national brand.

 

Sans USC and UCLA (when they fly off to the B1G) that's an intriguing prospect - except for them pesky Utes and Beavers lurking on our flanks.  I include the Beavers because even when they struggle to go .500 they still seem to give Oregon fits.

[HappyToBeADuck]

Byron, thanks for the article. Lots to agree and disagree about. Also many great thoughts and ideas feom the Forum members.

 

However, decisions made need to make sense to your conference members and media partners. In fairness to Houston, in order to minimize travel, a pod of 4 or 5 schools in Texas and Oklahoma would need to be added. A pod of schools. 

 

Does that move work for ESPN, Fox or other cable or plug in networks?

Maybe! But it does not move the money meter. Will the viewers in that region watch the Longhorns, Aggies, Sooners or Houston in head to head time slots? We all probably know that answer....

 

Adding teams does not add to the value of the media rights contract, it dilutes it. 10 teams splitting $250 milllion or 14 teams splitting $250 million? Which one will the PAC presidents choose?

 

Texas, Oklahoma, usc and ucla bring high value media rights to their new respective conferences. The teams being mentioned in the thread don't bring that type of increase 

 

Streaming service companies bring a entire different need to the table. Amazon has more subscribers than the networks can get eyeballs. Streamers need content, especially those that are building a sports division like Amazon. The PAC provides any streamer a ready made sports broadcast partner. GK knows this and it appears he and his team are working thru the progressions.

 

There are many on this great Forum who want GK to land a great deal with the networks. That shipped has sailed. Fox does not want the PAC and spent big on the BIG. ESPN said the PAC has about a $300 million annual media rights value.

 

Maybe the writing is on the wall. Great discussion topic and great responses. The only chip the PAC has is late night broadcasts on Friday and Saturday night, at this point. Does anybody believe in magic?

[mrspenney]

I was with Direct TV for 17 years,  switched to Dish a 2 years ago only because of there having PAC 12 network.  Have to say we are not happy, independent contractor installed system and it’s been downhill ever since.  A Dish employee had to remove everything and reinstall us because installation was incorrect and of course for 2 months we had all kinds of trouble.  Since then we seem to have a significant technical issue every month.

 

Have to say we had no problem with Arizona-Oregon game, however our Dish contract expires in December and will be looking for new provider.

[NJDuck]

Welcome Byron, enjoyed your article, looking forward to more from you.  Fubo.tv gives me all the sports channels, including Pac-12 network.  With Fubo you get 1,000 hours for recording.

 

Schools to look at for expansion:

 

If we are looking at Mountain West schools, to me UNLV and SDSU would be the choice.  UNLV is tier 1 research institution, Las Vegas is the mecca for Pro sports/betting, etc.  Great venues that already host Pac-12 championships for football and basketball.  Las Vegas media market ranked 40, but is one of the fasting growing cities.

 

SDSU does give us a foothold in the Southern California area.  They are in the process of working towards tier 1 research institution.  They just finished building a brand new stadium.  Personally rather have them in the Pac-12 and keep the Big 12 from getting a foothold in our region.

 

Grab these schools before they enter into the Big 12.  BYU (ranked 21 academics amongst all institutions in the country), great fanbase nationally, travel well.  Would be big rivalry with Utah.  Houston, in big media market city.

 

TCU or SMU (rolling in money), both in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, big media market.

 

There is also the ACC.  Form a coastal conference with them.  Use the new stadiums in Las Angeles and Las Vegas to play games between the two joining conferences.  Take the Rose Bowl back and away from the Big Ten.  Use the Rose Bowl to form a new alliance with a top bowl game with the ACC, SEC and or the Big 12.

 

All I am saying is the Pac-12 needs to be creative to bring in more regions and become maybe a 3rd Big conference to compete.  More good media markets.  To get those better media markets the conference needs to look beyond our own backyard.  Bring in more value to the conference.

 

Use the Pac-12 network to work along side with a streaming company like Amazon or Apple.  Also use a linear company like ESPN.  Have both linear and streaming.

 

The presidents and chancellors need to move out of their comfort zone and allow our commissioner free to be creative and allow him to do what he does best.  Like what Charles said, there needs to be incentives for universities to receive more revenue for their schools.

 

I am not sure really what is the best solution, but the Pac-12 needs to be proactive!  Otherwise the only other solution is for Oregon to except an invite to the Big Ten if invited to survive.

 

[Roguedog]

On 10/13/2022 at 8:48 AM, Mic said:

At just over 245,000 yes, they are not a large market but they 'own' almost the entire state of Idaho.  What's more, when we vacation in Northern Nevada it's not uncommon to see Bronco flags and gear in that area as well. People like their style of play and their proclivity of giving bigger programs fits.

I agree, Boise would be great. It is not the biggest but, It is a good program. Please do not think that my opinion is BSU would be bad for the Pac 12. I think it would be great. I think bigger is better at the moment.

[Drake]

I gave up worrying about what should happen, versus what will happen, within the PAC-12.
 

Unless you are sitting at the negotiation tables, or making the decisions that determines the future of a University, this is an exercise in frustration. 

Competing in collegiate sports at the level Oregon competes at is expensive (over $100 million last year).
 

Can Oregon remain in the PAC-12 and be competitive on a national level if they receive substantially less money from media contracts?  Does Oregon actually have an invitation to go to the BIG on equal terms with all the  other members? 

 

Those answers will probably determine what happens. 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Drake

[debbieduck]

On 10/13/2022 at 8:30 AM, noDucknewby said:

As much as I hate to admit it, the conference will never be the same without the LA schools, both economically (media market) and in terms of tradition.  USC (football) and UCLA (basketball) are the only true conference bluebloods.  While the collapse of the Pac-12 would sadden me, my loyalties are to Oregon first, so the question to me is what's best for the Ducks?  There's no doubt in my mind that we can be nationally competitive in a newly restructured Pac-? within a newly expanded CFP.  That said, how do we stay close enough in the massive money grab to avoid fading into obscurity?

 

Let's face it, the Pac-12 is not in a postion of strength.  Our expansion options are limited and ultimately controlled by the ivory tower academics.  Are we destined to become a boutique academic and olympic sport conference?

 

As for the B1G, I think eventually the invite comes.  My heart says stay but me head says go.

I would go too because I think the PAC may fold 

[DUCati855]

On 10/13/2022 at 8:58 AM, HappyToBeADuck said:

Adding teams does not add to the value of the media rights contract, it dilutes it. 10 teams splitting $250 milllion or 14 teams splitting $250 million? Which one will the PAC presidents choose?

I agree with this. But, when one thinks this way I feel we must also consider dropping the baggage currently in the Pac-12 (soon to be 10). OSU and WSU, while competitive and feisty, bring nothing to the table for media negotiations. If you drop them you have $250 million split 8 ways.

 

I'm not saying the Pac(?) should do this. I'm saying it should be considered. Also, If I were one of the bean counters of the Pac(?) I would consider dropping these and adding an SDSU or a UNLV. 

 

I would leave out expanding to the Central time zone unless a full pod could be added. What the Pac(?) has to it's advantage is the fact we are on the left coast and can fill those late (TV) time slots.

 

Also at what point do we change the name of the conference to the Pacific Coast Conference? The PCC has a nice ring to it.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by DUCati855

[JDuck]

Albuquerque?  It's not THAT big of a market, and UNM is perennial bottom-10 fodder.  I'll pass on adding that to the Pac 

[Roguedog]

On 10/13/2022 at 4:57 AM, Pennsylvania Duck said:

Welcome, Byron. I enjoyed reading your article and look for more from you. Every time I read about adding new conference members, I find George K saying a new media deal needs to get done first. I don't understand why that is the case. Wouldn't it make more sense to add members, then negotiate? It seems to me your value would be higher with the right members added.

TY

[OregonDucks]

Thanks for posting the article. 
 

It’s seems short-sided (and old school) to me that media companies are focusing on media market size vs. TV ratings. Where do Alabama and Norte Dame rank in terms of media market size? 

[Charles Fischer]

On 10/13/2022 at 10:37 AM, DUCati855 said:

Also at what point do we change the name of the conference to the Pacific Coast Conference? The PCC has a nice ring to it.

And a historical one. Time is a flat circle....

 

 

 

[DUCati855]

On 10/13/2022 at 1:42 PM, Charles Fischer said:

Yeah, I suppose it makes too much sence!