"[Brian] Kelly Move a Product of a Broken Sport"

[Annie]

"Kelly should be a pariah in his profession."

 

 

[C J]

Wow, that is an intense article. I definitely agree with the premises though. Not sure why Kelly wouldn't say I will take the job after the season finishes up. I suppose because of the recruiting signing period?

[Jon Joseph]

IMO - in the Free Market, Kelly is free to do what he wants to do and when he wants to do it. 

 

By taking the job now, he has a chance to recruit at LSU before early signing day. I don't think he will have any worries regarding admissions at LSU?

[OregonRich]

He ditched out on Cinci back in 2009, right before their Sugar Bowl game and after countless denials of possibly leaving. Lack of character defines him.

[Steven A]

Let's not forget him getting that kid killed to photogragh practice from an unsafe tower on an abnormally windy day.  Lost all respect for him that day.

[jrw]

Kelly is just part of the problem. I think college football is headed for a reckoning of some sort; too much money, too many oversized egos, lack of an equal playing field, too little control by any oversight body. It's the Wild West out there now, and I think trouble is coming.

[Guest DUCKBILL]

The article on Kelly leaving ND is a great example of the point I was trying to make yesterday. Money is power. Power corrupts. If someone does not get control of this, football is in trouble. Ethics, loyalty seems to mean nothing to these coaches that chase the money. Is this a case of egos? I am worth more than you!! I just got a contract larger than you!! How many millions do these coaches need or want?  Will any amount ever satisfy them? Where are the University Boards and Presidents. Talk about the tail wagging the dog. The big money contributors and rabid fans are not helping and clearly are part of he problem.

 

This brings me to the Oregon program. I have nothing but admiration for Cristabol. I would like to see him retire here. I hope we do not get in a bidding war to keep him. I hope uncle Phil keeps his check book closed. If $5,000,000 does not satisfy Cristabol then he will leave. That would, in my mind, mean his goal of building Oregon into a national power by developing a family culture is just talk a means to an end. I want a coach that commits to a community and its University, Casanova, Brooks, Belloti, Helfrich. (I would take Helfrich back as an OC in a heart beat).

 

I think I need a glass of Oregon Pinot Noir.

[Quietduck]

Duckbill,

 

Honest question, not an attack.  Would you apply the same standards to the players with the portal and Image and likeness?  I don't have an opinion beyond all college sports seem to be heading away from the colleges and into the professional.

[Charles Fischer]

On 12/1/2021 at 9:42 AM, Quietduck said:

Duckbill,

 

Honest question, not an attack.  Would you apply the same standards to the players with the portal and Image and likeness?  I don't have an opinion beyond all college sports seem to be heading away from the colleges and into the professional.

 

Quietduck...you framed the question well--to get more information without offending.  For a first post--you get us!  Please post often and WELCOME!

[FG Lumber]

I thought NIL was going to be the death knell of college football...........now it's salaries that will also distinguish the few of the haves from the vast majority of the have nots.  Now that both reasons are currently in place I fear that we're destined to have a Conference or two of the super rich. 

 

One can surely feel badly for the ND players as as for USuc, I didn't really need another reason intensely dislike them (now reason #345).

Times, they are a changing.

[jrw]

On 12/1/2021 at 9:42 AM, Quietduck said:

Would you apply the same standards to the players with the portal and Image and likeness?

 Somewhere in here we need to talk about the differences between how money is seen by players and coaches.

 

Many players come poverty. Not all certainly, but a lot. A bit of NIL money can make a huge difference in their lives. Coaches are talking about how whether they make $3 million or $5 million a year. Money to them is a way of keeping score, or buying a bigger boat, not about any kind of need.

 

So, I'm not sure the standard of loyalty can be applied to both players and coaches.

[UtahDuck]

On 12/1/2021 at 10:20 AM, jrw said:

Kelly is just part of the problem. I think college football is headed for a reckoning of some sort; too much money.

 

I think this is structurally the issue. Not necessarily that it is too much money just that it is to much money being spent. Not to be rude to all the coaches that just got paydays but unless you have one a chip in the last 5 years you shouldn't be making 9 million a year and frankly no one should be making more than Saban. Yet USC just hired Lincoln for a 10m/year deal at USC. A coach who has never built anything and has yet to win a playoff game. 

 

LSU fired a coach with a pay out(18 Million). Then they hired a coach that has made the playoffs once. His new contract is base 9.5m 10 year with heavy incentives.

 

Michigan state dropped 9.5 million on a coach who has a head coaching record of 17-14.   

 

I'm not going to say any of these coaches are bad. they aren't but you can't tell me that any of them have earned their upcoming paydays. and at least one of these schools is going to get stuck with a coach that isn't worth the near 100m dollar tag they are going to get paid. This will cause a reckoning. I hope oregon can appease mario and prove that he is still at the right place as money moves forward but at this point no one can convince me he deserves more than ryan day who is making a paltry(kidding) 6.6m/year.

[Charles Fischer]

This forum is better when UtahDuck is posting often!   Great to see you!

[Guest DUCKBILL]

QUIETDUCK.  I think this is apple's and oranges. The issue with NIL was the colleges making money off of their "worker" (player) without the player receiving any financial benefit. This could be seen as a form of slavery. At least that is my interpretation of the court decision.

[UtahDuck]

On 12/1/2021 at 11:34 AM, Charles Fischer said:

This forum is better when UtahDuck is posting often!   Great to see you!

Thanks Charles, I was on a much needed vacation with the family and we tried to limit screen times but back to the grind.

[Washington Waddler]

On 12/1/2021 at 8:47 AM, Jon Joseph said:

IMO - in the Free Market, Kelly is free to do what he wants to do and when he wants to do it. 

 

 

     At the risk of soundly hopelessly naive and lacking the appropriate level of cynicism,  where — if anywhere — should we hope (expect?) institutions of higher learning to draw the line between the message sent by the Free Market, and what their historic mission has always been:  to promote a well-rounded education that not only prepares the student for the real world, but instills the ethical values that help balance unbridled human desire with trustworthiness? 

[DuckFan93]

As long as capitalism is still in and the boosters are allowed to help pay for coaches' salary, this will just be the new norm, unfortunately.    BK is definitely classless for bailing out before end of the season, regardless of what LSU wants.  But the real solution may be to require coach salary to be paid entirely by the schools, from their FB earnings, and not from contributions.  Otherwise, poor schools like our neighborhood rodents will never have a chance.

[Drake]

Many reasons to leave. ($$$$$$) 

A sport, college football, that I do enjoy, has an ugly side. 
 

All football coaches talk about teamwork in someway, shape, or form. I guess that teamwork only goes so far when large $$$ donors get involved.

[Quietduck]

On 12/1/2021 at 10:34 AM, DUCKBILL said:

QUIETDUCK.  I think this is apple's and oranges. The issue with NIL was the colleges making money off of their "worker" (player) without the player receiving any financial benefit. This could be seen as a form of slavery. At least that is my interpretation of the court decision.

Given that what keeps them from going the same way as the coaches?

[latracey]

As far as coaches' salaries go, it's clear that Jon Joseph has his finger on the pulse of the reality of the situation: In a Free Market, coaches are free to take the offer of the highest bidder and, while Joe Moorhead likes to divide the decision into 3 considerations (personal, professional, and monetary), it's clear that Money outweighs the other two... by far. The sobering fact is that there is now an unbridled passion to win at any cost. In a Free Market, money rules.

 

Washington Waddler wants institutions of higher learning to draw the line between the hard, cruel realities of the Free Market and a more noble ideal that promotes a well-rounded education that not only prepares students for the real world, but instills the ethical values that help balance unbridled human desire with trustworthiness; but institutions of higher learning are caught in the trap of ever increasing costs and successful athletic programs supply desperately needed resources. Far be it for any university to stop wealthy boosters from paying ridiculous coaching salaries if said coaches bring the kind of success that promotes enrollment and additional donors. It's a win win that trumps things like loyalty and trustworthiness. 

 

DuckFan93 suggests that we go back to a system where universities pay coaches salaries in a hope that it makes things more equal. Even if universities could be coaxed into doing that, we've pretty much already been there and done that and bigger schools have more resources that make things anything but more fair for smaller schools; not to mention that this brave, new world of unbridled money storm genies has been let out of the bottle. Good luck getting them back in.

[Guest DUCKBILL]

Jon, of course the coach has a RIGHT to go to wherever he wants. That for me is not the issue. Where does ethics and loyalty fit into any freemarket. The bottom line is all that matters (wins). The ethical standards, according to my understanding of the free market, is up to a higher body to install and regulate. This is a me first world. Is that what we want? How has this individualism approach worked out for the United States? This is a systemic issue that will need some basic decisions based on our values.

[latracey]

Another problem/misperception that I see is the notion that a skilled coach should posses super special qualities of moral character beyond just being a really talented person who knows how to collect the best Jimmies and Joes and inspire them to execute a really ingenious plan with the Xs and Os. 

 

I'm sure that some of these coaches are truly extraordinary men who exemplify the qualities of honesty, trustworthiness, loyalty, and great character; but most are just people like you and me with the same, or different,  human flaws; as well as the same aspirations for financial success in a world that puts the highest premium on wealth. Who among us would not jump at an offer to get paid 2 to 3 times the amount of money to do our same job somewhere else?

 

Does it make a person bad to want to make as much money as they can to do their job? Is it bad to want to do your job at a place where there is a higher likelihood of success than at the place where you presently work?

 

Admittedly, you would want to see people treat their employers and the people they work with with loyalty, honesty, and respect, but how much respect do coaches get? Let's face it, they live in a world where their job security is only as good as their last season's win/loss record and has very little to do with the quality of the relationships they have with the people around them. They live in a world where their job is done in a fishbowl where few are satisfied with what they see, where mistakes are magnified, and where the better job that they do, the higher the expectations and the less satisfied people seem to be. 

 

I don't admire what Taggart, Riley, Kelly, and heaven only knows who else, have done to further their careers, but I certainly understand it. They are doing what they think is the best way to look out for themselves and their families in a  Free Market world where the end justifies the means, money talks, and you'd better take it while you can because you are only as good as last season's win/loss record.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by latracey

[Just Ducky]

The division between the haves and the have nots is getting wider at supersonic speed. Not a good look.

The big problem is how to stop it and that won’t happen till it crumbles.

[Jon Joseph]

On 12/1/2021 at 3:11 PM, latracey said:

As far as coaches' salaries go, it's clear that Jon Joseph has his finger on the pulse of the reality of the situation: In a Free Market, coaches are free to take the offer of the highest bidder and, while Joe Moorhead likes to divide the decision into 3 considerations (personal, professional, and monetary), it's clear that Money outweighs the other two... by far. The sobering fact is that there is now an unbridled passion to win at any cost. In a Free Market, money rules.

 

Washington Waddler wants institutions of higher learning to draw the line between the hard, cruel realities of the Free Market and a more noble ideal that promotes a well-rounded education that not only prepares students for the real world, but instills the ethical values that help balance unbridled human desire with trustworthiness; but institutions of higher learning are caught in the trap of ever increasing costs and successful athletic programs supply desperately needed resources. Far be it for any university to stop wealthy boosters from paying ridiculous coaching salaries if said coaches bring the kind of success that promotes enrollment and additional donors. It's a win win that trumps things like loyalty and trustworthiness. 

 

DuckFan93 suggests that we go back to a system where universities pay coaches salaries in a hope that it makes things more equal. Even if universities could be coaxed into doing that, we've pretty much already been there and done that and bigger schools have more resources that make things anything but more fair for smaller schools; not to mention that this brave, new world of unbridled money storm genies has been let out of the bottle. Good luck getting them back in.

 

la - the free market is leading a select group of CFB programs to a Super League that will be professional football in all respects Think AAA baseball.

 

Duckbill, you also will have the 'amateur' sport in one form or another. Many schools will not want to or be good enough to, go professional. Many schools that might want tp go pro will not be in markets that will be attractive to to the media. Many, many kids playing college football today are doing so at schools and in conferences without athletic scholarships of any kind whatsoever. Thousands of kids are playing Ivy League and D3 ball simply for the love of the game.

[Guest DUCKBILL]

QUIETDUCK, There is nothing ,at the moment, to keep players from transferring to a college that may be more positive for their NIL. Check out the players that are leaving and following their coach to the UW.

[Quietduck]

Duckbill,  That's what I'm afraid of.  Just as we give coaches grief for following the dollar and the limelight how long will it be before  the players do the same.  To me two wrongs are still wrong.

[Guest DUCKBILL]

Jon, I think you are correct that the free market applied to football will lead to super conferences based on their income potential both from TV and the size of their stadiums I do not want Oregon to be in one of these super conferences based on my values and not just on the fact that we do not have the market nor the stadium to compete. I would be happy to copy the Ivy League model.

 

As far as a coach who would fit into this model, they would be more interested in a life style that included connection to the community, best place to raise their children, best place to live every day life, a great place to retire. A love of football and teaching, developing the character of their players, all the things I think Cristabol embodies. This means putting money behind other criteria. Under this system, finding a coach that is competent and can deliver competitive teams over the long run seems the goal. How about paying such a coach around $2,000,000 a year? Bring the joy back to the fans that are not obsessed with the  Natty.

 

[Duck 1972]

football pays for almost every other Mens and all of women sports. 

 

What's wrong with a super conference. It would be more equitable. Like going from NIAA to FCS 123 then FBS. Just make 2 divisions in FBS with their own championship. It would be fairer.

 

As far as as the noble goal of student/athlete what's wrong going to school to be drafted. It's a career just like any other. As far as the few who do make it vrs the large number who don't hardly any other profession does much better.

 

They all still get their degree, chance at NIL money in both divisions and be draftable just like now. It makes a lot of sense to me. It would allow the bottom half that barely get a sniff to play for a championship.

 

We already have super teams in the 5 conferences anyway and are never going back. So my question is why not?

[Jon Joseph]

On 12/1/2021 at 6:57 PM, Duck 1972 said:

football pays for almost every other Mens and all of women sports. 

 

What's wrong with a super conference. It would be more equitable. Like going from NIAA to FCS 123 then FBS. Just make 2 divisions in FBS with their own championship. It would be fairer.

 

As far as as the noble goal of student/athlete what's wrong going to school to be drafted. It's a career just like any other. As far as the few who do make it vrs the large number who don't hardly any other profession does much better.

 

They all still get their degree, chance at NIL money in both divisions and be draftable just like now. It makes a lot of sense to me. It would allow the bottom half that barely get a sniff to play for a championship.

 

We already have super teams in the 5 conferences anyway and are never going back. So my question is why not?

 

I think a super league and pay for play is inevitable. Charles willing I expect to have an article up on this topic next Wednesday? Riley and Kelly just gave me the perfect lead.

[30Duck]

[Quietduck]

On 12/1/2021 at 2:29 PM, DUCKBILL said:

QUIETDUCK, There is nothing ,at the moment, to keep players from transferring to a college that may be more positive for their NIL. Check out the players that are leaving and following their coach to the UW.

So just like coaches we are condemning they can follow the money and limelight?  I think both are going to destroy the game.

[30Duck]

On 12/2/2021 at 8:31 AM, Quietduck said:

So just like coaches we are condemning they can follow the money and limelight?  I think both are going to destroy the game.

 

The Playoff has already created a "Have & Have Not" Culture. The Final $4, then the NY6, and the rest, who really cares?Mycah Pittman showed where a player's thinking is. Riley had CFP appearances and back to back Heisman winning QB's, but when U$C called it was "See Ya, Oklahoma"

 

Even Paul Finebaum understands that expanding the Playoffs is essential if College football is to continue.

[Jon Joseph]

On 12/2/2021 at 11:48 AM, 30Duck said:

 

The Playoff has already created a "Have & Have Not" Culture. The Final $4, then the NY6, and the rest, who really cares?Mycah Pittman showed where a player's thinking is. Riley had CFP appearances and back to back Heisman winning QB's, but when U$C called it was "See Ya, Oklahoma"

 

Even Paul Finebaum understands that expanding the Playoffs is essential if College football is to continue.

 

Great take. Let's see? More $, in the middle of prime recruiting territory, a blue blood program that finally is spending the money to get back to blue blood status and you play AZ, ASU, UCLA and UTAH instead of A+M, BAMA, OLE MISS and LSU?

 

Sign me up!