Big 12 Expansion East or West

[BUBearsFan72]

Baylor fan here. Constructive points to our potential new members if Oregon could swallow the drop in competition. : )) I'm curious about some thoughts on these points:

 

1) It seems like Pac 12 schools have little respect for Big 12 schools minus OU and UT. I've seen discussion on the Utah board today about their reluctance to be in the Big 12 because of religious schools. In past Pac 12 expansion talks, I recall at least one of these schools being left out of the discussion because of this point. I've also seen plenty of discussion about how the Big 12 schools aren't on the same level academically.

 

And on average that's true for sure. So from a Fit perspective, how do you think the Pac 12 schools would fit with the Big 12? I believe some of the Big 12 schools have some strong feelings about the past attitudes of the Pac 12 schools towards the Big 12. And I think Fit is as high on the Big 12 radar as revenue and I have seen this discussed by the Baylor AD. The UT cancer is leaving. Big $$ loss but also a misFit leaving. When one Big 12 leader was asked about taking schools from the Pac 12, he said "Why?".

 

How do you think the Pac 12 schools would fit in the Big 12. Would they be happy partners and constructive members or cancerous? Which Pac 12 schools would fit the most, if any?

 

2) I have seen plenty of talk about how the Pac 12 schools are more competitive than the Big 12 and a move to the Big 12 would be a move into the mid majors or something like this. And maybe this is because they would join a conference without OU and UT. How many of you know the success level (lack of) of UT for the past decade? But where do these beliefs come from?

 

How well has the Pac 12 minus UCLA and USC performed in terms of bowl games and rankings versus the Big 12 minus OU and UT but plus the 4 new schools? Are the Pac 12 teams that much better than the Big 12 or actually worse?

 

See linked article about 2021 bowl performances. And this trend didn't just start in 2021. This has been a multi-year theme.

 

- Big 12 (excluding OU and including the new 4): 6-1 with Cinci losing to Bama in the Playoffs.

- Pac 12 : 0-5

 

From the linked article, "College football bowl season winners, losers: Big 12 steps up; Pac-12's stink will linger".

 

 

College football bowl season winners, losers: Big 12 steps up; Pac-12's stink will linger

EU.USATODAY.COM

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The Big 12 had a strong postseason, highlighted by wins in the league's three biggest games, while Pac-12 teams went a...

 

 

Latest Top 25 (counting OU & UT as SEC // USC & UCLA as B1G // Cinci, UCF, BYU, Houston as Big 12)

 

Top 10:

 

Big 12 = 3

SEC = 3

B1G = 3

ACC = 0

Pac 12 = 0

 

11-25:

 

ACC = 4

SEC = 3

Big 12 = 2

Pac 12 = 2

B1G = 1

 

And notably USC and UCLA are not in the Top 25.

 

 

College Football Rankings 2022 - AP Top 25 - CBSSports.com

WWW.CBSSPORTS.COM

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Get the latest College Football rankings for the 2022 season. Find out where your favorite team is ranked in the AP Top 25, Coaches...

 

 

And the Big 12 is the best basketball conference. Any disagreement? Check those wins and rankings.

 

Do you think any Big 12 teams could be attracted to the Pac 12 based on these points? Or do you think Pac 12 teams are more likely to come swimming to the Big 12?

 

*********

 

1) My hope for the Big 12: add Oregon and Washington IF they will commit to working to Fit into the conference. Probably have them and all other members sign a 250 million buyout. If this doesn't happen, add 2 of the best fit.

 

2) Wait to take 2 from the ACC when the B1G and SEC rob them of at least North Carolina, Clemson, FSU, and Miami.

 

 

Thoughts?

[GeotechDuck]

Nice post.  The arrogance of USC and UCLA is almost laughable.  Since we expanded to 12 teams, USC has won the conference title once and UCLA has never won it.  They routinely get blown out by the likes of Oregon, Washington, Utah and Stanford.  USC had a losing record last year!!
 

The AAU thing has always been really important to the PAC-12 along with not having schools with religious affiliation (that is more of a Cal thing), but they are going to need to get over that really quickly, unless they want to fade into Bolivia (as Mike Tyson would say). 
 

I think the biggest concern is not the current level of competition.  The Big-12 and PAC-12 have plenty of competitive football and basketball teams currently. It is the fact that the merged conference would not have equivalent media markets and viewership, so they would continue to fall further and further behind schools in the BIG and SEC due to lack of funding.  With NIL in the mix, teams in the BIG and SEC are just going to rip talent away from the BiggiePac by offering more money. Eventually the gap widens and the BIG and SEC take off and the BiggiePac gets left behind.   
 

That being said, the world is changing quickly. I would be in favor of a merger to the BiggiePac.  I think it makes a ton of sense.  If the conferences don’t merge, playing football at the highest level is doomed. If they do, there is a long shot they stay relevant. 
 

The world is changing extremely quickly and there are a lot of companies with streaming services that have money to burn.  If a merged conference can think outside the box a little, maybe a streaming service like Apple TV or YouTube (owned by Google) or maybe a new one like Nike TV can generate enough cash to keep the teams competitive for the next 5-10 years.  Also, winning helps too.  There would be some great teams in a BiggiePac conference - OSU, Baylor, TCU, Cinci, BYU, Washington, Oregon, Stanford, etc that would need to step up and win some big games. 
 

In the case of a merger, the Big-12 is holding the all cards right now, so I think it is whatever they decide they want.   I think the Big-12 should grab Oregon and Washington immediately (assuming the don’t jump to the SEC or BIG). Those two are no brainers. Oregon is a national brand with Top 10 viewership numbers and UW is in a Top-15 media market.  The next two I take are actually AZ and ASU. Most will disagree with me on this, but Phoenix is now the 5th largest city in the US and growing rapidly.  

 

If those two schools can start winning some games, there is potential there.  I would grab Utah and Colorado next. Denver and Salt Lake are both growing fast, but more of a longer play.  The last two I would consider are Stanford and Cal.  They are in a major media market, but there is little to no focus on revenue-generating athletics. 

[NJDuck]

Amazon could also be a great streaming service as well.

Edited July 3, 2022 by NJDuck

[HappyToBeADuck]

BUBearsFan72, thanks for your post. There is alot to digest and contemplate after reading your post.

 

In regards to fit I dont think that matters at this point. Its purely survival time for the PAC. As GeotechDuck pointed out, its about viewership and partners who bring eyeballs to the table. Putting high quality contests on TV that draw customers for advertisers. This potential merger would create the first 4 time zone, coast to coast conference. 

 

If ND moves to the BIG then NBC and Streaming Services will need content from sun up to sun down. Both FOX and ESPN will want a piece of that action, too!

 

The BIG 12 is squarely in the drivers seat.  However, the BIG 12 needs West Coast visibility as much as the PAC needs visibility in Texss. Both conferences need this for recruiting. Both conferences need a SoCal presence so San Diego State should be in the discussion. SoCal 5☆ recruits can easily drive from LA to San Diego to watch San Diego State play Baylor, OSU, Oregon, Utah or Washington

 

 

The BIG 12 has been out performing the PAC on the gridiron and BB courts for awhile now. Adding Washington to the BIG 12 will help make up for losing Texas. Both schools feel they are the straw that stirs the drink of success. They know they are better than everyone else. Yet neither school has accomplished much on the gridiron or BB courts in awile. You will be able to disdain Washington as much as Texas.

 

Some people or schools will always think they are better than everyone else. Other than geography, did Baylor or TCU really fit with Texas. Probably no more than WSU fit with USC, UCLA or Cal.

 

What really matters is having partners who have big dollar boosters. The kind of boosters that will create million dollar NIL deals for 5☆ and high 4☆ recruits. Thats the FIT that probably means the most to ALL the schools.

[GeotechDuck]

Just to add to your point BUBears that the league would be highly competitive in the short term. Just need a creative way to keep up with the SEC and BiG in revenue dollars. 
 

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by GeotechDuck

[Duck4life]

As said before, eyeballs bring dollars.  Choosing conference members based on success is a risky short term strategy.

To be shrewd, a truly successful but controversial strategic merger between PAC12 and BIG12, would means culling the smaller schools.  The revenue dilution between so many schools make competing with BIG and SEC difficult at best.

 

(My controversial opinion) assuming contracts even allow would be to drop these to compete.

Wash State, Oregon St., Arizona, TCU, KSU, WV...cal?....and yes Stanford (who cant half fill a 40K stadium).

Perhaps my list is 20 degrees off kilter, but I think something has to give from both conferences for this merger to work.

 

[Charles Fischer]

 

First of all...we enjoy having reasonable fans of other schools join us for rational, measured discussion. Your post was a great start, so WELCOME!

 

My merger, the Big-Pac, are at least enough to have 18 teams in total for two divisions of nine teams each.  Play eight conference games as the SEC does, and four non-conference with an assumption that we will not have the same funding as the two Super-Conferences, but we can still be relevant.  

 

I speak only for myself, but I do not like any of the options staring at us.  I do not want to join any conference, even the B1G, but the time for a relevant independent Pac-12 has passed with recent events.

 

BTW....the Pac-12 is the Conference of Champions.  We were the first and only conference to have 500 National Championships among all sports, the first conference to have a school with 100 National Championships, (UCLA, USC, & Stanford) and the first conference to have 200 Womens Championships.  

 

Oregon is tied for 13th among all NCAA schools for National Championships, while Baylor is not in the top 40.

 

(We have a lot to offer besides just football and basketball.)

 

List of NCAA schools with the most NCAA Division I championships - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

 

[Charles Fischer]

On 7/3/2022 at 9:28 AM, Duck4life said:

The revenue dilution between so many schools make competing with BIG and SEC difficult at best.

Unfortunate, but true.  It is all about the eyeballs, the size of the market now, and not the recent success.  Otherwise...Washington would be out of the picture when you consider all their sports.

 

The biggest 18 markets among the two conferences for the "Big-Pac?"

[savagefund]

On 7/3/2022 at 5:03 AM, BUBearsFan72 said:

 

 

. I've seen discussion on the Utah board today about their reluctance to be in the Big 12 because of religious schools. 

 

 

If that is what is on there I would argue that is a small vocal minority.  

[DanLduck]

On 7/3/2022 at 1:55 PM, savagefund said:

If that is what is on there I would argue that is a small vocal minority.  

The issue for religious schools is whether their school rules allow for the acceptance of all gender and sex issues currently facing the country. And the state of CA is the main issue. They ban travel to many states for all public employees, that includes coaches.

[GeotechDuck]

On 7/3/2022 at 2:37 PM, DanLduck said:

The issue for religious schools is whether their school rules allow for the acceptance of all gender and sex issues currently facing the country. And the state of CA is the main issue. They ban travel to many states for all public employees, that includes coaches.

They don’t really “ban” it, I think they just won’t fund it?  
 

For example, if UCLA goes from getting $36M/year in the PAC to $100M/year in the BIG, they will just fund their own travel.  That is not really an obstacle if the money is there I believe?  

[Charles Fischer]

Let's not go any further on this thread concerning the states with gender, sexual orientation or religious issues.

[Badwater]

The topic is a money issue. All other factors - and I mean this - do not matter. Oregon will shop to the highest bidder. The highest bidder will offer the best brand recognition. Any other factors do not relate.

[curtisd316]

On 7/3/2022 at 12:28 PM, Duck4life said:

As said before, eyeballs bring dollars.  Choosing conference members based on success is a risky short term strategy.

To be shrewd, a truly successful but controversial strategic merger between PAC12 and BIG12, would means culling the smaller schools.  The revenue dilution between so many schools make competing with BIG and SEC difficult at best.

 

(My controversial opinion) assuming contracts even allow would be to drop these to compete.

Wash State, Oregon St., Arizona, TCU, KSU, WV...cal?....and yes Stanford (who cant half fill a 40K stadium).

Perhaps my list is 20 degrees off kilter, but I think something has to give from both conferences for this merger to work.

 

WVU won't be left out they rank 30th in TV viewership rankings the best option for the Big 12 and Pac 12 is a full merger

 

Which college football programs bring in the most TV viewers? | by Zach Miller | Run It Back With Zach | Medium

MEDIUM.COM

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TV viewership isn’t always the best way to measure a college football program’s value. But here’s how each school ranks since...

 

[OregonDucks]

On 7/3/2022 at 2:50 PM, GeotechDuck said:

They don’t really “ban” it, I think they just won’t fund it?  
 

For example, if UCLA goes from getting $36M/year in the PAC to $100M/year in the BIG, they will just fund their own travel.  That is not really an obstacle if the money is there I believe?  

 

Another potential option may be for UCLA and Cal to have coaches be private employees, with salaries and benefits paid for by donors.

[NJDuck]

Ideally if you could somehow combine PAC/Big12/ACC (38 universities plus ND) into one mega conference.  Sacrifices would have to be made as to which universities would be allowed in this newly formed super conference.  With the right universities and media markets spanning across a lot of regions could bring in a great media revenue contract.

 

If you kept all, you would need $1.95 billion in order for each university to receive 50 million.  If you kept 22 schools you would need $1.1 billion.

 

Not sure how logistically you would schedule 39 universities (if ND stayed where they are).  That would need to be figured out in splitting into pods.

 

It could be a very exciting and competitive conference, not only in Football and basketball, but all other sports.  But the reality is it would be very difficult, maybe impossible, for three conferences to come to an agreement to make it happen.

 

I am sure the ACC understands they could be next in jeopardy.

Edited July 3, 2022 by NJDuck

[BUBearsFan72]

On 7/3/2022 at 6:26 AM, GeotechDuck said:

Nice post.  The arrogance of USC and UCLA is almost laughable.  Since we expanded to 12 teams, USC has won the conference title once and UCLA has never won it.  They routinely get blown out by the likes of Oregon, Washington, Utah and Stanford.  USC had a losing record last year!!
 

The AAU thing has always been really important to the PAC-12 along with not having schools with religious affiliation (that is more of a Cal thing), but they are going to need to get over that really quickly, unless they want to fade into Bolivia (as Mike Tyson would say). 
 

I think the biggest concern is not the current level of competition.  The Big-12 and PAC-12 have plenty of competitive football and basketball teams currently. It is the fact that the merged conference would not have equivalent media markets and viewership, so they would continue to fall further and further behind schools in the BIG and SEC due to lack of funding.  With NIL in the mix, teams in the BIG and SEC are just going to rip talent away from the BiggiePac by offering more money. Eventually the gap widens and the BIG and SEC take off and the BiggiePac gets left behind.   
 

That being said, the world is changing quickly. I would be in favor of a merger to the BiggiePac.  I think it makes a ton of sense.  If the conferences don’t merge, playing football at the highest level is doomed. If they do, there is a long shot they stay relevant. 
 

The world is changing extremely quickly and there are a lot of companies with streaming services that have money to burn.  If a merged conference can think outside the box a little, maybe a streaming service like Apple TV or YouTube (owned by Google) or maybe a new one like Nike TV can generate enough cash to keep the teams competitive for the next 5-10 years.  Also, winning helps too.  There would be some great teams in a BiggiePac conference - OSU, Baylor, TCU, Cinci, BYU, Washington, Oregon, Stanford, etc that would need to step up and win some big games. 
 

In the case of a merger, the Big-12 is holding the all cards right now, so I think it is whatever they decide they want.   I think the Big-12 should grab Oregon and Washington immediately (assuming the don’t jump to the SEC or BIG). Those two are no brainers. Oregon is a national brand with Top 10 viewership numbers and UW is in a Top-15 media market.  The next two I take are actually AZ and ASU. Most will disagree with me on this, but Phoenix is now the 5th largest city in the US and growing rapidly.  

 

If those two schools can start winning some games, there is potential there.  I would grab Utah and Colorado next. Denver and Salt Lake are both growing fast, but more of a longer play.  The last two I would consider are Stanford and Cal.  They are in a major media market, but there is little to no focus on revenue-generating athletics. 

I agree with everything you say. I just wonder after adding these 4 Pac 12 schools if it would make sense to hold until any possibility of adding some ACC ones when the SEC and ACC pull some away. It would be interesting to see a poll of current Big 12 schools but I would be if the questions were asked, "Which Pac 12 team would you be most excited about adding" the answer would be Oregon. Oregon has done a great job building it's brand and the Nike relationship is incredible.

 

We could ensure every team in the new conference has Nike contracts. : ) I read something about how Apple had considered buying Disney in the past who owns ESPN. Maybe moves like this will be made that open more doors. Many are concerned that streaming out would cut out a large group of viewers. If Apple owned both, you would get the Apple streaming along with ESPN app and ESPN via cable. If this makes sense. Just hopefully this world of media will change to benefit us. If we end up in a new conference like this I think we have to be much more creative with media and corporate contracts.

 

The Big 12 announced a new commissioner the day before the announcement that UCLA and USC were leaving. Interesting timing. He has a lot of big time experience with sports contracts including the largest one in North America (if I remember correctly) with NASCAR. He is also said to be incredibly well connected in the media world. We'll see. Man I would love to have the Ducks in our conference!!

[BUBearsFan72]

On 7/3/2022 at 3:57 PM, NJDuck said:

Ideally if you could somehow combine PAC/Big12/ACC (38 universities plus ND) into one mega conference.  Sacrifices would have to be made as to which universities would be allowed in this newly formed super conference.  With the right universities and media markets spanning across a lot of regions could bring in a great media revenue contract.

 

If you kept all, you would need $1.95 billion in order for each university to receive 50 million.  If you kept 22 schools you would need $1.1 billion.

 

Not sure how logistically you would schedule 39 universities (if ND stayed where they are).  That would need to be figured out in splitting into pods.

 

It could be a very exciting and competitive conference, not only in Football and basketball, but all other sports.  But the reality is it would be very difficult, maybe impossible, for three conferences to come to an agreement to make it happen.

 

I am sure the ACC understands they could be next in jeopardy.

I've thought of this too. I think it would be a League and could have it's own playoffs. You know what, shut the B1G and SEC out from all scheduling. Yeah it would cost alot of $$$ but I think they are creating serious problems for themselves. In the regional model we all grew up with, kids could expect their parent to be at many of their games. It will be less the case for schools like UCLA and USC. That plus the insane travel will be a turnoff for multiple reasons.

 

I heard the Baylor AD talking about how there are going to be some schools that still want to put priority on the STUDENT side of the Student/Athlete. And making sure decisions are still made with their best interests in mind.

[BUBearsFan72]

On 7/3/2022 at 4:12 PM, HappyToBeADuck said:

BUBearsFan72, thanks for your post. There is alot to digest and contemplate after reading your post.

 

In regards to fit I dont think that matters at this point. Its purely survival time for the PAC. As GeotechDuck pointed out, its about viewership and partners who bring eyeballs to the table. Putting high quality contests on TV that draw customers for advertisers. This potential merger would create the first 4 time zone, coast to coast conference. 

 

If ND moves to the BIG then NBC and Streaming Services will need content from sun up to sun down. Both FOX and ESPN will want a piece of that action, too!

 

The BIG 12 is squarely in the drivers seat.  However, the BIG 12 needs West Coast visibility as much as the PAC needs visibility in Texss. Both conferences need this for recruiting. Both conferences need a SoCal presence so San Diego State should be in the discussion. SoCal 5☆ recruits can easily drive from LA to San Diego to watch San Diego State play Baylor, OSU, Oregon, Utah or Washington

 

 

The BIG 12 has been out performing the PAC on the gridiron and BB courts for awhile now. Adding Washington to the BIG 12 will help make up for losing Texas. Both schools feel they are the straw that stirs the drink of success. They know they are better than everyone else. Yet neither school has accomplished much on the gridiron or BB courts in awile. You will be able to disdain Washington as much as Texas.

 

Some people or schools will always think they are better than everyone else. Other than geography, did Baylor or TCU really fit with Texas. Probably no more than WSU fit with USC, UCLA or Cal.

 

What really matters is having partners who have big dollar boosters. The kind of boosters that will create million dollar NIL deals for 5☆ and high 4☆ recruits. Thats the FIT that probably means the most to ALL the schools.

I also think some geographies like CA could be strengthened with schools like San Diego State. We would be best to have divisions, pods, or whatever that try to respect geography and traditional rivalries.

 

BU, TCU, and UT were all together in the SWC. So the relationships are long-standing. But this has obviously soured over time. UT cost the conference Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, & Missouri. Texas A&M was a huge loss of a long time rival and "friend" of the SWC. And UT & OU have blocked Big 12 expansion because they didn't want to share the money.

 

I agree with what you say on the booster and NIL side. Oregon is set with Nike. In the future the conference has to leverage these relationships that exist with the various schools. For example, a big one in the past for Oklahoma State was T Boone Pickens who left a legacy there that translates to success on the field.

Edited July 4, 2022 by BUBearsFan72

[BUBearsFan72]

On 7/3/2022 at 6:45 PM, Charles Fischer said:

Unfortunate, but true.  It is all about the eyeballs, the size of the market now, and not the recent success.  Otherwise...Washington would be out of the picture when you consider all their sports.

 

The biggest 18 markets among the two conferences for the "Big-Pac?"

Top 100 TV Markets -

Top 100 Television Markets - Station Index

WWW.STATIONINDEX.COM

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The largest 100 television markets in the United States.

Big 12:

- 5 DFW

- 10 Houston

- 19 Orlando

- 33 Salt Lake City (BYU nationally followed)

- 34 Cincinnati

- 45 Oklahoma City

- 94 Waco (of course BU is all over Texas like Houston, Tech, and TCU)

- West Virginia????

 

Pac 12:

- 12 Phoenix

- 14 Seattle

- 22 Portland (But Oregon is more of a national brand)

 

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by BUBearsFan72

[NJDuck]

On 7/4/2022 at 8:58 AM, BUBearsFan72 said:

I agree with everything you say. I just wonder after adding these 4 Pac 12 schools if it would make sense to hold until any possibility of adding some ACC ones when the SEC and ACC pull some away. It would be interesting to see a poll of current Big 12 schools but I would be if the questions were asked, "Which Pac 12 team would you be most excited about adding" the answer would be Oregon. Oregon has done a great job building it's brand and the Nike relationship is incredible. We could ensure every team in the new conference has Nike contracts. : ) I read something about how Apple had considered buying Disney in the past who owns ESPN. Maybe moves like this will be made that open more doors. If we end up in a new conference like this I think we have to be much more creative with media and corporate contracts. The Big 12 announced a new commissioner the day before the announcement that UCLA and USC were leaving. Interesting timing. He has alot of big time experience with sports contracts including the largest one in North America (if I remember correctly) with NASCAR. He is also said to be incredibly well connected in the media world. We'll see. Man I would love to have the Ducks in our conference!!

Brett Yormark is a great get for the conference as commissioner!  You need someone like him who has this kind of experience and creativeness to broker a new media rights deal that can get the conference the most money as possible for the universities.  I am looking forward for your conference to be very successful and vital in light of what is happening.

 

You will also have the Denver market (ranked 17) with Colorado and Salt Lake City (as you mentioned) with Utah as well with BYU.  Great rivalry between Utah and BYU!  Not sure what is happening with Washington (great rivalry with our Ducks) or with Stanford and CAL.  Stanford and CAL of course in the Bay area which ranks 6.

 

At this moment we are all in the dark as far as where our Beloved Ducks will land.  We are trusting Oregon will make the right decision moving forward. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by NJDuck

[BUBearsFan72]

On 7/3/2022 at 4:41 PM, GeotechDuck said:

Just to add to your point BUBears that the league would be highly competitive in the short term. Just need a creative way to keep up with the SEC and BiG in revenue dollars. 
 

 

Not bad, right?? : )

[BUBearsFan72]

On 7/3/2022 at 9:28 AM, Duck4life said:

As said before, eyeballs bring dollars.  Choosing conference members based on success is a risky short term strategy.

To be shrewd, a truly successful but controversial strategic merger between PAC12 and BIG12, would means culling the smaller schools.  The revenue dilution between so many schools make competing with BIG and SEC difficult at best.

 

(My controversial opinion) assuming contracts even allow would be to drop these to compete.

Wash State, Oregon St., Arizona, TCU, KSU, WV...cal?....and yes Stanford (who cant half fill a 40K stadium).

Perhaps my list is 20 degrees off kilter, but I think something has to give from both conferences for this merger to work.

 

I completely understand this view. It's all about the $$$ right now. But what happens when a number of these traditional rivalries are lost? How many fans/viewers turn it off? And when students have to travel outside the radius of which their parents are able to go to games? Or when students are traveling 4+ hours one way for a game? I just think some of these things will become mid to long term issues with the short term money first.

 

I'm probably wrong but I think these will be deciding factors for some recruits and their parents. Baylor build a new very nice stadium and purposely cut the number of seats down. They are doing the same in the new basketball arena. Quality of experience will be up and so will the "Bear Foundation" donations (required to buy season tickets) and ticket prices. I have heard this is becoming a bit of a trend (smaller but higher price). I'm not sure though.

[HappyToBeADuck]

BuBearFan72 you are continuing to deepen the OBD Forums conversation on this topic.Thanks....

 

In your opinion, how upset or resentful are the BIG 12 members toward the PAC? Especially when the BIG 12 was rejected by our arrogant Presidents.....

 

The shoe is on the other foot now. The BIG 12 is in position to finish what the BIG started. Sending the PAC an obituary notice.

 

On a different thread it was mentioned that AU, ASU, CAL, UTAH and COLORADO were meeting with the BIG 12 in Arizona this week. Not sure if this is fact but it smacks of everyman for itself.

 

IMHO adding those teams would not help enhance the value of the BIG 12. They would not add media rights value. The 2 conferences must stick together to have strength at the negotiating TV rights table.

 

Any expansion without Oregon and Washington involved would regulate the BIG 12 to regional value only. That would play into the SEC-BIG hands. A few wrong moves and only 2 conferences will be playing in the new CFP expansion model.

 

(However, if Oregon, Washington and Stanford are headed to the BIG, then this is a prudent move.)

 

The ACC, BIG 12, PAC, AAC, MAC and Mountain West conferences best consider forming their own 2 super conference models. 2 conferences with 8 divisions and a 4-2-1 playoff model. 

 

Vision, vision and more vision. Create what TV wants and be included. Or enjoy watching the BIG and SEC filling the CFP and NY6 games.

 

Its obvious those guys are all about the money. Not some of it but all of it. ALL OF IT.......

[BYUTexan]

My hope is that The Big 12 acts on expansion before the Pac 12 does, getting ASU, Colorado, Oregon and Washington, though adding Arizona and (gags) Utah would give the conference greater credibility to keep up with the P2.  But if only 4 then best-case scenario would be ASU, CU, Oregon, UW.  Tomorrow can't come soon enough.  

[BUBearsFan72]

I made this post on this board and a Utah one. I'm surprised by the nastiness and arrogance on the Utah board. You would think they were the #1 target of the B1G.

[OregonDucks]

On 7/4/2022 at 10:16 AM, BUBearsFan72 said:

I made this post on this board and a Utah one. I'm surprised by the nastiness and arrogance on the Utah board. You would think they were the #1 target of the B1G.

I’m still not sure that adding Utah and Colorado was the right move for the Pac-10. It ruined the round robin and I’m not sure it added much to the conference. 
 

Texas and Oklahoma would have been the much bigger prize. 

[Log Haulin]

On 7/4/2022 at 10:16 AM, BUBearsFan72 said:

I made this post on this board and a Utah one. I'm surprised by the nastiness and arrogance on the Utah board. You would think they were the #1 target of the B1G.

I saw some of the feed you are referring to. Looked like they were confusing UT with UU. I saw a lot of fear that they are getting blown out just as they were starting to see some success. In Blues they call that "paying your dues ".

 

 Can't really blame them. The LA schools and media heads did the rest of us dirty. Utes will be fine. Ducks will excel. 

[DUCati855]

On 7/4/2022 at 10:16 AM, BUBearsFan72 said:

I made this post on this board and a Utah one. I'm surprised by the nastiness and arrogance on the Utah board. You would think they were the #1 target of the B1G.

Utah (as many schools) has many delusional fans. They were the big fish in a little pond for many years. Then they came to the Pac and got pounced for awhile. The last two years, with the help of the transfer portal, they made large strides to become more competitive. Now, the LA schools drop a dirty bomb. Utah fans realize they likely have not done enough to stay relevant. I can understand their disappointment and fear.

[Duck 1972]

On 7/4/2022 at 10:16 AM, BUBearsFan72 said:

I made this post on this board and a Utah one. I'm surprised by the nastiness and arrogance on the Utah board. You would think they were the #1 target of the B1G.

Win 1 title in over a decade and suddenly they are world beaters. Go figure. Also there aren't any other sites that are in a class with the

"forum with decorum". Thanks for posting Baylor fan. Although we may disagree you and your thoughts are always welcome.

[BUBearsFan72]

On 7/4/2022 at 9:56 PM, Duck 1972 said:

Win 1 title in over a decade and suddenly they are world beaters. Go figure. Also there aren't any other sites that are in a class with the

"forum with decorum". Thanks for posting Baylor fan. Although we may disagree you and your thoughts are always welcome.

I may spend the equivalent of 3 full days, on average, on a forum. But I've never seen one as nice as this one. I hope the Ducks come to the Big 12 but I think it'll be the B1G. We'll see.

[Charles Fischer]

On 7/5/2022 at 3:40 AM, BUBearsFan72 said:

I may spend the equivalent of 3 full days, on average, on a forum. But I've never seen one as nice as this one.

Thank you, as that means a lot to me.  I am very fortunate that so other great people wanted to join me in forming a community based upon civility and kindness toward each other.  We debate the topic and not go after each other...

 

My thanks again.