FishDuck Article: Oregon Head Coaches...If You Leave, Your New Team Will FIRE YOU

[Charles Fischer]

Drex has put together quite the informative and entertaining article for the Irregulars of the OBD forum.  (I love that reference to us!)

 

A new verb for Oregon fans?  When a coach is "Stony-Brooking" it?  

 

Oregon Head Coaches: If You Leave, Your New Team Will Fire You

FISHDUCK.COM

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From a couple of bleacher bums, here's a revelation that every Oregon head coach should consider: if you jump ship for a new head coaching position, you won'

 

[1Funduck]

Brilliant article with an out of the box view of Oregon. Loved it! 

 

My $.02. The teams that wish to woo away an Oregon HC tend to be traditional powerhouses that can't stand a rebuilding year. $0 patience. Oregon is trending towards that mentality even though they aren't there quite yet. Helfrich anyone? 

 

So, a lower level, first tier school will always except a 10 win season in expectation of a shot at a NC every 5-10 years. USC? Florida St? Miami? The NFL? No way! 

 

Best move for Lanning, if he's all that, is to build the Georgia/Alabama of the West Coast and dominate for the next 25-30 years. Bet there's tons of 10+ win seasons and titles to go with it. Saban has it figured out. Find your recipe and then stick with it. 

[Drake]

There is one common denominator behind Oregon’s football successes over the last 25 years that cannot be overlooked. It certainly has helped propel Oregon football forward. 
 

Phil Knight.

 

Oregon football coaches definitely benefit in many ways from the support he has provided.

[David Marsh]

On 10/4/2022 at 7:36 AM, 1Funduck said:

Oregon is trending towards that mentality even though they aren't there quite yet. Helfrich anyone? 

It has become abundantly clear now to anyone that I think Helfrich gets a bad rap by a lot of Ducks fans. Was he perfect? Of course not. Was he given time to truly address some of the problems that emerged? Nope. Would he have worked out in the end... probably not to the goal of a National Championship in honest truth without some major changes along the way. 

 

But I also have no sympathies for anyone crying about Oregon needs coaches to be loyal to the program and are lifers when Helfrich was going to be a lifer in the mold of Bellotti and the fan base was calling for his head after one really really bad bowl game and a bad season. 

 

Fans want loyalty from their coaches but show their coaches no loyalty when things get tough, within reason. 

[Smith72]

Thank you Drex!  Excellent points of observation.  Oregon is the best job any coach could have!

 

Bob Rodes hit it out of the park with Hotel California!

[jrw]

Like being the drummer for Spinal Tap, with less severe consequences.

[Haywarduck]

I suppose it comes down to you can learn to be a better coach and build a program, or you can chase the big dollars.

 

The magic of Oregon's coaching carrousel is we take losers, and those who have little or no experience and make them winners. Other programs chase the winners with money and expect them to have magic.

 

In other words our program is magic, and other programs are just looking to find the magic.

 

What is the magic, we support a coach like few programs out there. The facilities are second to none, and the expectations aren't as unreal as many programs. Also you can recruit to Oregon, just get them on campus, and have an exciting product on the field, pretty simple really.

 

This explains the continual process of failure when our coaches lose after leaving. They choose the money instead of being supported and learning. Once a coach reaches the point, and really anybody, where they think they know it all, they are headed for failure. 

 

Bellotti never thought he new it all, just got burnt out. The rest, especially Chip, thought they new it all, and fell for the money. 

 

I will agree to disagree on Helfrich, he didn't have it, and chose not to develop it, and still lacks the drive to learn to be a great head coach.

 

I would also disagree that Phil Knight is the magic. We built Rich Brooks into a winner his last 10 years with the support and allowing him to grow. He had little or no support from Phil Knight, and went 67-60 his last ten years as head coach. PK has been huge for Oregon, but there is more to our success than just what he brought to the program.

[shawnski]

On 10/4/2022 at 8:27 AM, David Marsh said:

It has become abundantly clear now to anyone that I think Helfrich gets a bad rap by a lot of Ducks fans. Was he perfect? Of course not. Was he given time to truly address some of the problems that emerged? Nope. Would he have worked out in the end... probably not to the goal of a National Championship in honest truth without some major changes along the way. 

 

But I also have no sympathies for anyone crying about Oregon needs coaches to be loyal to the program and are lifers when Helfrich was going to be a lifer in the mold of Bellotti and the fan base was calling for his head after one really really bad bowl game and a bad season. 

 

 

Coach Belotti was continually changing and updating when things stopped working.

 

Remember Rich Stubler? Gone after less than one miserable 1996 season.

 

Grew the stasche and smashed stuff at halftime in 2005 to the tune of double digit wins.

 

Pro-style wasn't working so he ushered in the Spread and brought Chip in.

 

Always evaluating always changing. 

 

Not Helfrich. Came in in 2010 and never changed anything except for graduate transfer QBs. Wouldn't recruit, wouldn't discipline. Players stopped listening and performing. 

 

Geez he was there from 2010 through 2016. That's plenty of time in my book. 

 

Some things are just clear cut and are instant no-go's.

 

Like driving the Ferrari into a brick wall.

[McDuck]

On 10/4/2022 at 8:37 AM, Haywarduck said:

I would also disagree that Phil Knight is the magic. We built Rich Brooks into a winner his last 10 years with the support and allowing him to grow. He had little or no support from Phil Knight, and went 67-60 his last ten years as head coach. PK has been huge for Oregon, but there is more to our success than just what he brought to the program.

The NCAA reduced football scholarships from 105 to 95 in 1982 which had a big impact on woefully underfunded Oregon football.  Brooks was a quality coach and when he could get players who previously would have been stockpiled by the "haves" results improved dramatically.

[DanLduck]

Phil Knight is a fantastic benefactor, 

but he doesn't coach a lick.

 

Yes, he has helped to build amazing facilities, and helped encourage others to join him. But I suggest to you every major program has its major benefactors. 

And tv $$ has helped teams like Maryland, Perdue, even Rutgers have better facilities than half the Pac12. 

 

Our success has been due to finding good coaches and letting them have time to do their thing.

Also, Nike's marketing genius has helped propel national interest among the nation's elite players. 

 

Our recent success is buoyed by a change in recruiting. Taggert & Cristobal did that. And now our beloved coach Lanning is trying to raise the bar even more.

 

I personally believe DL will stay in Eugene, a classic college town, located in the beautiful and abundant northwest, for as long as we want him.

Or at least until his boys get to hischool. 

 

The other coaches who left had too big of ego's. They had something to prove.

Lanning has more confidence in himself, and he wants his family to have a home to return to.

 

As fans, we need to trust the process of his and the teams development. 

We know we will lose games we don't want to, and win some we don't deserve. 

But with the continuation of DL bringing in good coaches, our future is bright. 

[Haywarduck]

On 10/4/2022 at 10:41 AM, McDuck said:

The NCAA reduced football scholarships from 105 to 95 in 1982 which had a big impact on woefully underfunded Oregon football.  Brooks was a quality coach and when he could get players who previously would have been stockpiled by the "haves" results improved dramatically.

In 1992 the limit was brought down to 85 from 95 scholarships. I believe it was 1978 it was brought down from 105 to 95. 

 

Interesting subject as Title IX in 1972 is what brought the scholarship limits even into existence. Before the 105 limit, a player only had to be enrolled to play and there was no limit on scholarships. Back in the day, some schools had over 150 'students' on scholarship for football. 

 

When Brooks came along the scholarship limits impact had pretty much played out. He recruited from the impressive Valley River Center's Restaurant with a pretty view of the Willamette River. I doubt the facilities tours ever mentioned the meetings were held in the hallways of Autzen. Somehow Brooks brought in talent, developed talent, and out coached most coaches.

 

 

[DUCati855]

Many on here seem to forget that Helfrich was dealing with the issues Chip ran away from.

 

Chip deserves tons of credit. But, his success is marred (in my mind) by the fact he bailed on Oregon when things were about to get difficult.

 

Helfrich was at least loyal enough to deal with those troubles. His biggest fault was not being strong-minded enough to get rid of some of Chip's trouble makers and replace them with quality young men.

 

Both MC and DL seem to look at the quality of the person they are recruiting in addition to their playing ability. For this I am grateful.

[Desert Duck]

On 10/4/2022 at 8:17 AM, Drake said:

There is one common denominator behind Oregon’s football successes over the last 25 years that cannot be overlooked. It certainly has helped propel Oregon football forward. 
 

Phil Knight.

 

Oregon football coaches definitely benefit in many ways from the support he has provided.

Everything changed for Oregon football when Phil & Penny Knight bought in.

 

Everything.

[Desert Duck]

On 10/4/2022 at 8:27 AM, David Marsh said:

It has become abundantly clear now to anyone that I think Helfrich gets a bad rap by a lot of Ducks fans. 

Helfrich got "Chip Kellied."

 

Chip and his unprecedented Oregon 87% winning record, 4 straight BCS trips, and 1 NC trip, ruined it for any coach who was going to follow him. 

 

I don't think Helfrich was going to be a great coach for us long-term, but had he followed anybody other than Chip, more than likely, he would have had at least a few years to try.

[McDuck]

On 10/4/2022 at 11:30 AM, Haywarduck said:

In 1992 the limit was brought down to 85 from 95 scholarships. I believe it was 1978 it was brought down from 105 to 95. 

 

Interesting subject as Title IX in 1972 is what brought the scholarship limits even into existence. Before the 105 limit, a player only had to be enrolled to play and there was no limit on scholarships. Back in the day, some schools had over 150 'students' on scholarship for football. 

 

When Brooks came along the scholarship limits impact had pretty much played out. He recruited from the impressive Valley River Center's Restaurant with a pretty view of the Willamette River. I doubt the facilities tours ever mentioned the meetings were held in the hallways of Autzen. Somehow Brooks brought in talent, developed talent, and out coached most coaches.

 

 

Conflicting information available online.  My guess is the 95 limit was enacted in 1978 and took effect in 1982.  That transition would allow schools to honor existing scholarships without needing to cut players.

 

That transition is hinted at with the further reduction to 85.  The NY Times reported the 85 limit in January 1991 "...cut in football will reduce the annual limit of scholarships per school to 92 from 95 in Division I-A during the 1992-93 academic year, to 88 during the 1993-94 year and to 85 during the 1994-95 year."

[Charles Fischer]

On 10/4/2022 at 11:52 AM, Desert Duck said:

Everything changed for Oregon football when Phil & Penny Knight bought in.

 

Everything.

A popular notion by Beaver fans is, "you would be nothing without Phil Knight."  What I remind them of is...winners want to work with winners.  Only after we got to the 95 Rose Bowl without Phil, and then to the Cotton Bowl did Phil accept our invitation to talk about helping.  We had to do it on our own first.

[DanLduck]

On 10/4/2022 at 11:52 AM, Desert Duck said:

Everything changed for Oregon football when Phil & Penny Knight bought in.

 

Everything.

Actually, after Brooks led the team to a bowl in 1989, Knight asked him what would best help the team get to the next level. He said an indoor practice facility. Thus, the Moshofsky center, (not the Knight).

 

Knight deserves all the credit we can give for getting others to buy in, as well as his own generosity, but Oregon was trending up before his major support. 

 

Nike marketing deserves major kudos as well. They developed the O, and the uni's, (for which they've made millions at all the other Nike schools). 

[Charles Fischer]

On 10/4/2022 at 11:58 AM, Desert Duck said:

had he followed anybody other than Chip, more than likely, he would have had at least a few years to try.

I politely disagree.  Helfrich was a brilliant offensive coordinator and QB coach, but 1) he was not a leader and lost the team once Mariota left, 2) could not recruit at the level needed being a consistent Playoff contender, and 3) like Chip at UCLA, was not good at selecting and recruiting coaches.  Days before he was fired MH asserted that he is sticking with Brady Hoke, the worst defensive coordinator since Stubler.

 

I give Cristobal credit for not just recruiting players well, but coaches too.  Now some of his picks, (Minnie-Me, Bobby Williams and the RB coach) have been upgraded with Lanning, but overall he would make a change when needed.

 

Lanning seems (thus far) to be giving us the best of both worlds and coaches...

[Charles Fischer]

On 10/4/2022 at 12:05 PM, DanLduck said:

Actually, after Brooks led the team to a bowl in 1989, Knight asked him what would best help the team get to the next level. He said an indoor practice facility. Thus, the Moshofsky center, (not the Knight).

No, that occurred in 1995, IMHO.

[JDuck]

I wanna see the numbers on assistants leaving, mainly coordinators leaving for head coach jobs.  I bet they'd do better staying, and if successful we should pay big bucks to keep them.  Or, as Charles pointed out yesterday, they'll pay you big millions to go fails somewhere.  Every big school has to deal with it though.  Saban guys find success, but Saban finds new coordinators who continue to win.  Hopefully Lanning will be a big apple under that tree.

[idontrollonshobbas]

Helfrich era recruiting was hampered by Kelly's violations no doubt.  But Don Pellum was recruiting coordinator who whiffed badly on social media adoption and that made things worse. 

 

 

[Desert Duck]

On 10/4/2022 at 12:01 PM, Charles Fischer said:

A popular notion by Beaver fans is, "you would be nothing without Phil Knight."  What I remind them of is...winners want to work with winners.  Only after we got to the 95 Rose Bowl without Phil, and then to the Cotton Bowl did Phil accept our invitation to talk about helping.  We had to do it on our own first.

As usual, the Beavers are wrong.

 

When you look back at what Brooks had to work during his tenure from '77 - '94, which was very-very little, and even though he only had 3 seasons with 8 or more wins, most of us realize that what he accomplished was actually rather amazing. I feel like he virtually willed that '94 to the Rose Bowl.

 

And Belotti following up that Rose Bowl team with another 9 win season in '95 -- also in part a testament to Brooks, was beyond impressive.

 

To your point, Oregon showed first that they could win... and win with very few resources. And about that time, the Knight's came into serious, serious money -- and fortunately for the University of Oregon, they have been phenomenally generous with it to his beloved alma mater.

 

Because, as said beautifully in wonderful movie The Right Stuff: "No bucks, no Buck Rogers."

 

[Duck Fan 76]

It's an interesting topic and I doubt there's a "unifying field theory" of coaching success at Oregon or after.  In the history of the program there have been the occasional great players at Oregon that lifted the teams to more success than the local recruiting population should be able to support (Fouts, Rashad, Van Broklyn, Renfro).  The state of Oregon has always lacked the sheer number of great HS athletes to draw from that gives success to programs closer to large populations.

 

The modern era trend line from 90's to now has more than one driver and most of them have been mentioned above.  What I would add is that I actually think that some of that success is due to bringing in multiple coaches on the rise.  What I mean is that we have benefited from the coaching turn over by bringing a fresh approach every so often to build upon what Oregon already had going for it.

 

The truth is we are going to loose Dan Lanning at some point if he continues to be successful.  I doubt it would be to another college program but a football nerd like DL has got to be chomping at the bit to coach in the NFL.  Will he be successful in the NFL?  Who knows but the truth is most NFL coaches aren't as there's a constant churn to staff in the NFL.

 

For now I think we're in good coaching shape and I doubt we will loose KD this year (but it's absolutely possible if his offense keeps up the current trend).  We have to have faith that DL will bring in more talent if we loose coaches and we have to have faith that the program will bring in more talent if we loose DL.  

 

Slick Willie is the only coach I had hard feelings about and each one of the prior head coaches (even Chip) brought a mixed bag of good and bad qualities to the position.  What matters to the program is that we keep salaries high enough to pull in high quality coordinators and position coaches to keep recruiting and developing players from across the country. 

 

We also need to hold coaches to a standard that is realistic and measurable.  They get paid a lot of money and we have clear program expectations with regard to the program trajectory.  I thought Helfrich was fired prematurely to be honest but without that event we wouldn't be recruiting like we do now.

 

I know the above sounds like I'm embracing CFB as a business and that's because in general I am.  The idea that NCAA football is about amateur student athletes competing for school pride on the weekends when they aren't studying for their degree went away somewhere in the 1960s.  The amateur status of these programs went out the door with the rise of the NFL and the influx of broadcast money so I'm glad that NIL is correcting the worst of it (though NIL definitely needs fixed).

 

If you want to watch amateur college football it's played in the NAIA all over the country.  Lots of loyal coaches making peanuts and actual student athletes in those games.  As for me, I'm just happy that the people running Duck football seem to know what they are doing. 

 

I mean look at the mess USC and UCLA made of their programs.  That got bad enough that they have to leave the PAC to stay viable.  We'll see where that all goes but if Phil has had a major influence on the Ducks it's not just the donations, his business acumen ensures the school runs athletics like a business and that means accountability for achieving goals.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Duck Fan 76

[Desert Duck]

On 10/4/2022 at 12:08 PM, Charles Fischer said:

No, that occurred in 1995, IMHO.

Correct... 1995. The Knight's put up a matching donor fund for the Moshofsky Center, which shifted the $15 million fundraising program for the Mo into overdrive. 

 

Construction began in '97 and the Mo was opened in '98.

 

But I particularly like that the Knight's first huge gift was to renovate the U of O library in 1994.

 

And pretty much since that time, the construction projects have not stopped throughout the entire university.

[Desert Duck]

On 10/4/2022 at 11:31 AM, DUCati855 said:

Many on here seem to forget that Helfrich was dealing with the issues Chip ran away from.

 

Thanks for the reminder. Admittedly, that does slip my mind on occasion. That was a huge handicap for Helfrich to walk into.

 

I still don't think he was going to be the answer long-term, but will never know for sure.

 

[Duck Fan 76]

On 10/4/2022 at 12:56 PM, Desert Duck said:

Knight's first huge gift was to renovate the U of O library in 1994

I attended UO during the infamous 1999 campus protests and I remember the students putting Nike stickers all over the library (not as a sign of support).  The Knight's have been amazing to the UO and the education of a large student body have been significantly uplifted by their generosity.  There's a lot of "disinformation" out there on the university finances and how "student tuition" pays for UO football.  Truthfully it's nothing short of amazing that the school is doing as well as it is after the measure 5 changes took hold.

 

 

[Haywarduck]

Interesting topic and we are getting into areas where opinions are strong and, thankfully, shared freely. 

 

I know for a long time I was of the opinion Nic Alliotti wasn't a great coach. Through reading and pondering over facts presented I came around to appreciating Nic much more. 

 

When subjects like this begin to be discussed I encourage all of us to ponder what is presented with an open mind. Checks the facts and ruminate over what is presented. Who knows you just might change your opinion, or at least shift it a bit, something quite novel in this day and age.

 

Thankfully something which is promoted and protected on Fishduck. 

[Haywarduck]

On 10/4/2022 at 1:55 PM, Duck Fan 76 said:

I attended UO during the infamous 1999 campus protests and I remember the students putting Nike stickers all over the library (not as a sign of support).  The Knight's have been amazing to the UO and the education of a large student body have been significantly uplifted by their generosity.  There's a lot of "disinformation" out there on the university finances and how "student tuition" pays for UO football.  Truthfully it's nothing short of amazing that the school is doing as well as it is after the measure 5 changes took hold.

 

 

Good stuff, actually Miami is paying for football this season.

[Drex Heikes]

These thoughts are terrific. I agree that Bellotti was a great coach, perhaps most of all because he wasn't afraid to admit mistakes and make changes. He kept Oregon out front. And when he made mistakes on assistants, as he did from time to time--as any leader does from time to time--he fixed it. That's an excellent trait in a leader. If you don't fix it, it festers and your best people suffer as they try to manage around the weak link. 

 

It was Bellotti's constant adjustments and his quest for excellence that brought Chip Kelly to Oregon. When people rave about Kelly, as I do, I save half the praise for Bellotti. He made the no look pass for the game winner. 

[30Duck]

On 10/4/2022 at 12:01 PM, Charles Fischer said:

A popular notion by Beaver fans is, "you would be nothing without Phil Knight." 

No doubt a sentiment held by many in Beaver Nation, but the scent of that predominantly comes from the North. U Dud doesn't think Oregon wins any games, gets any players in any sport without Knight. Given that their entire sports program has been mediocre for decades it is easy to understand why they spend more energy barking about Oregon than on their teams. 

[Mic]

On 10/4/2022 at 7:21 AM, Charles Fischer said:

Drex has put together quite the informative and entertaining article for the Irregulars of the OBD forum.  (I love that reference to us!)

 

A new verb for Oregon fans?  When a coach is "Stony-Brooking" it?  

 

Oregon Head Coaches: If You Leave, Your New Team Will Fire You

FISHDUCK.COM

---

From a couple of bleacher bums, here's a revelation that every Oregon head coach should consider: if you jump ship for a new head coaching position, you won'

 

In complete fairness to the Bellotti phenomena I must suspect that Mike was taught good math when in school and he had this overly-generous PERS-thing completely figured out.  He's THE top PERS recipient in the State of Oregon with a rather generous (some say gaudy) lifetime pension plan.  Maybe that had something to do with his decision to stay put at Oregon.  That, and he had Chip Kelly devising and calling offensive plays!