Hate Me, but the FishDuck Adage Applies to Ty Thompson...

[Charles Fischer]

You have read what I've written many, many times over the 11 years of FishDuck sites, and it applies to the Ty Thompson discussion...

 

"Greatness and weakness emerge early."  "And weakness cannot be turned into greatness, as you work hard to just bring him up to average."  This applies to players AND coaches, IMHO.

 

You do not try to send Sparrows to Eagle School...it doesn't work.  If you want Eagles, you go out and find (recruit) Eagles for your team.  (Donte Moore)

 

How many quarterbacks have stepped on the field at Oregon and you knew they were a future star?  And how many has our coaching staffs over the years worked at, but to no avail?

 

[Mic]

Good point Charles but sometimes eagles turn out to be sparrows too.  I'm thinking of Bol Bol.  And Sam Bowie.  Of course, they were BB players.  But sometimes it's just a crap shoot.  

 

How would we classify that monster TE we had once, with the mohawk and tats?  Can't remember his name but he had all the marks of greatness in him - except his brain, after he got hooked on cocaine.

[Haywarduck]

Kellen Clemens looked like anything but a star when he stepped on the field. Dennis Dixon had one great year and looked mediocre the rest of the time.  I will agree to disagree on this one.

 

Ty has been sent in for clean up duty. DJU looked terrible last year, and is leading his team to the top of the rankings. Robby Ashford couldn't even break the top 4 within this group and has started for Auburn. I could go on. 

 

Also I trust these coaches more than the previous coaches and they are playing him. I love it when I disagree with Charles, because it seldom happens, but is a healthy sign. 

[47sgs]

On 10/9/2022 at 9:00 PM, Mic said:

How would we classify that monster TE we had once, with the mohawk and tats?  Can't remember his name but he had all the marks of greatness in him - except his brain, after he got hooked on cocaine.

I beleive that was Colt  Lyerla.  Kid had a terrible upbringing.  Serious talent and physical presence, but definitely a headcase.  Couldn't keep him oyt of trouble.

 

I just don't know what to think or believe about TT.  There was so much promise and excitement when he came here, and now so many question marks.  I hope he can rally, but it's pretty uninspiring to watch him play.

[Mic]

It might also be a case of what a coach wants out of a particular QB.  

 

It's obvious Lanning and Dilly want a mobile QB who can run the ball effectively while still tossing the rock occasionally.  Right now, I think Oregon is 60-40 run/pass.

 

Some coaches want a pocket-passer like Tom Brady who will stand in the pocket until a receiver finally gets open, reading checks til the cows come home (or he has to toss it away). More like a Mike Leach type QB.

 

Some coaches want a QB who merely directs the play to the right running back.  All he has to do is hand it off to the right guy at the right time, based on his reads. More like a Wisconsin QB.

[Mic]

On 10/9/2022 at 9:13 PM, 47sgs said:

I beleive that was Colt  Lyerla.  Kid had a terrible upbringing.  Serious talent and physical presence, but definitely a headcase.  Couldn't keep him oyt of trouble.

 

I just don't know what to think or believe about TT.  There was so much promise and excitement when he came here, and now so many question marks.  I hope he can rally, but it's pretty uninspiring to watch him play.

Bingo.  I remembered he had a great football name.  What a waste of talent.  I thought he could be the next Rob Gronkowski or Mark Bavarro.

 

Regarding TT: I think a lot of us were swayed by all the stars his name came with - proving either he's still a work in progress or even the talent rating houses are wrong sometimes. I still hope it's the former.

[Charles Fischer]

On 10/9/2022 at 9:01 PM, Haywarduck said:

Kellen Clemens looked like anything but a star when he stepped on the field. Dennis Dixon had one great year and looked mediocre the rest of the time.  I will agree to disagree on this one.

 

Ty has been sent in for clean up duty. DJU looked terrible last year, and is leading his team to the top of the rankings. Robby Ashford couldn't even break the top 4 within this group and has started for Auburn. I could go on. 

 

Also I trust these coaches more than the previous coaches and they are playing him. I love it when I disagree with Charles, because it seldom happens, but is a healthy sign. 

There are always exceptions or outliers to my philosophy.  But they are low-percentage, and you cannot base a winning team on that IMHO.

 

The examples I have, are so numerous.  You can have the low-percentage, and I hope Coach Lanning looks at what reality is among the high-percentages results.

[Mic]

War Eagles, Sparrows, Fish Ducks.  Where else can a guy go to get this kinda stuff?  Only on the best Duck blog page on the planet!

[Charles Fischer]

On 10/9/2022 at 9:43 PM, cartm25 said:

Yet Bo Nix started out in “War Eagle” school and experts concluded he was likely a “sparrow”.

 

Then Bo was sent to Ducks school and with every passing game he looks more and more like an “Eagle”.

 

If you want to invest five years--go for it.  I'd rather find an Eagle up front...

 

Most QBs are stuck with what occurred at Auburn, or with Mario, etc.  Getting connected with a Dillingham is a low-percentage event, and not one that any of us predicted.

[Drake]

Thankfully, the new staff has provided more on field opportunities to TT than he had all of last year. I really don’t expect a polished performance from him. 
 

However, TT also needs to own the moments that he has on the field, and so far he doesn’t have a resume that shouts I am your guy. 
 

There is a chance that he never becomes our guy, but it is still too early for me to give up on him. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Drake

[Badwater]

Charles, I respectfully disagree. See my post elsewhere. I don't think we've had QB coaching worth a flying sideways hop, and it shows. Give these players some time to develop and left's hope that Dillingham is here for longer than a season or two.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Badwater

[Kurt Rambis]

College recruiting is much like the NFL draft - so much of it is projections of what a guy might develop into at the next level.  You will ALWAYS have a better team if it's loaded with 5-star recruits (or 1st round draft choices) than lower-level guys - the numbers bear that out over and over again.

 

But then we make the mistake of projecting that to individual players ("This guy was a 1st rounder/5-star, so he should be great!").  And too often, we have expectations of greatness right away.

 

Plenty of guys wash out at the next level; others take a long time to develop.  For every Bryce Young or CJ Stroud there's a Brock Purdy.  Top 10 QBs from 2017 - 2019 (from 247 Sports) include Hunter Johnson, Myles Brennan, Jack Sears, Dylan McCaffrey, Keytaon Thompson, Justin Rogers, Jarren Williams, JT Daniels, Tyler Shough, Max Duggan, Spencer Rattler, Graham Mertz, Ryan Hilinski, and Dylan Morris - that's 14 guys out of the top 30 who have done next to nothing in college.

 

247 has Thompson rated #9 among '21 QBs.  The rest of the top 10 class:  Quinn Ewers (tOSU), Caleb Williams (Oklahoma), Sam Huard (UW), Drake Maye (UNC), Brock Vandegriff (UGA), JJ McCarthy (Michigan), Kaidon Salter (Tenn), Kyle McCord (tOSU), and Tyler Buchner (Notre Dame).  

 

Ewers couldn't get on the field and transferred, but is doing well at Texas.  Williams is a star.  Maye and McCarthy are first year starters doing well.  McCord looks good as a backup. 

 

But Huard has 24 yards passing this season.  Salter is a mediocre starter, but at Liberty.  Vandagriff is 0 - 3 passing in his career.  Buchner has struggled (3 TDs 5 picks) in spot duty and is out for 4 months with a shoulder injury.  And we've all seen Thompson.  

 

So far, out of the top 10, it looks like 1 star, 3 more who are looking really good so far, and a bunch of nothing for the other six.  Maybe some of these guys will become starters and even stars as they mature and get more opportunities, but it's not like Thompson is that different from the majority of the top ten from 2021.  

 

That's why it's hard to get too excited about Donte Moore - will he be the next Spencer Rattler, or the next CJ Stroud?  I'd rather have him than not have him, that's for sure, but he, Butterfield, Thompson, Cade Millen, Robbie Ashford, Tyler Shough, and all these other guys who have come through Autzen who haven't left a mark tell us that it's a real crapshoot.

[1Funduck]

I have watched and pondered, with mild amusement, the jump to assess Ty Thompson. He played a series and threw it 4 times. While he hasn't looked like a field general, he hasn't really been in the game yet to get it cemented. Which takes me to another view point on Ty.

 

     Qb's, of all football positions, have strengths and weaknesses that are revealed depending on the scheme, Bonix is a prime example. Average at best with Auburns offense, but a world beater under Dilly's offense. Does this mean that Bo, last year, wasn't a good QB? Well, kind of. Does this mean TT isn't a good QB or.....? TT was recruited by MC to play in that offense. The skill set was what MC wanted. I don't view this as something is wrong under the hood. I view this as the right QB strengths for the system you are recruited into. 

 

BONIX knew good and well that the current OC has an offense that displays his strengths. He came to Oregon sight unseen but knowing exacttlyhe would be on display with his strengths, the current OC knew it too. 

[Haywarduck]

It is interesting we are crowning Bo with, he has 'it,' while he was told for years he didn't have it. We now are saying Ty doesn't have 'it' before he has even started a game. 

 

I think the staff is very wise to have a third year guy ready to go next year as very few freshman are ready to lead a program out of high school. 

 

If Bo doesn't come back do we chase off Ty and Butters and sign another transfer to help Moore?

 

We don't hate you Charles, just disagree, and trust Lanning will have a plan that just might include Ty and Butters.

[Duck Fan 76]

On 10/10/2022 at 6:32 AM, Haywarduck said:

I think the staff is very wise to have a third year guy ready to go next year as very few freshman are ready to lead a program out of high school. 

I tend to agree with the broader sentiment that Charles is expressing BUT I do agree with your statement above.  We have 10 months to develop Ty and in the end I have always believed in the philosophy that the best player plays.  I'm pretty certain we lose Bo to the NFL after this season and that is Ty's time to shine.  I really hope he gets the development he needs to execute at a high level in this offense.

 

The truth is Oregon's new offense requires a smart and steady QB at the head as the opportunity is there for the QB to create plenty of bad plays every down.  "Bo Picks" has become "Bo Six" because he's executing and making great reads/decisions. 

 

I'm not going to pretend that I'm not worried by what I see out of Ty, not just for next year but as a backup for Bo this year.  His throws are unsound, hopefully that's nerves just because he's been throwing a lot of balls in practice.    

 

There are TWO transfer windows between now and Fall camp.  I want to see Ty get better and get the start but in the end if someone transfers in with the skills and can prove the difference in play... they should get the start.  If Dante Moore comes in and blows up the Spring camp then he will have earned that start.  

 

Right now, I'm just hoping Bo stays completely healthy for the rest of the season.  Not just for the Ducks but Bo has proven to me that he got a bad rap in Auburn and I want to see "Bo Six" eclipse that version of himself and get his shot in the NFL.  If nothing else, think of what that narrative does for the Oregon recruiting conversation down in SEC country.

 

 

[nw777b]

On 10/9/2022 at 9:43 PM, cartm25 said:

Yet Bo Nix started out in “War Eagle” school and experts concluded he was likely a “sparrow”.

 

Then Bo was sent to Ducks school and with every passing game he looks more and more like an “Eagle”.

 

Bo's talent, poise, and leadership was evident his first game on the national stage against the Ducks in his first college game. 

 

Did he make mistakes? Yes. Was he a sparrow? No.

[Mic]

On 10/10/2022 at 5:57 AM, 1Funduck said:

 TT was recruited by MC to play in that offense. The skill set was what MC wanted. I don't view this as something is wrong under the hood. I view this as the right QB strengths for the system you are recruited into. 

Yes he was (recruited by MC) and maybe he does (skill set) and maybe not (wrong under the hood).  But KD can't just look past him while waiting for the QB he wants - because we don't have the QB he 'wants' here.  If something happens to Nix ... we'll ... either Ty or Jay had darn well better be ready to step in and keep this offense going.  

 

5-stars should imply a skillset KD & DL can work with.  Or the 5-stars were bogus in the first place.

[Charles Fischer]

On 10/10/2022 at 6:32 AM, Haywarduck said:

We don't hate you Charles, just disagree, and trust Lanning will have a plan that just might include Ty and Butters.

I am not taking offense...we just disagree.  No big deal.

 

I am not the only one who has seen enough of Ty to say that I want to see Jay get meaningful reps too.

[CalBear95]

I agree with Charles but I do think scheme fit and competent coaching plays a big role (Shough as an example).  
 

TT looks scared and ultimately that is why I agree with Charles.  He is coming in to mop up a game.  Against non 1st team competition.  What is there to be scared of?  My guess is failing which, as tends to be the case, manifests that outcome.  
 

Maybe he isn’t a fit which is why he is struggling.  But I have real trouble understanding why he is so shaky when he has zero pressure to be a star.  

[Charles Fischer]

On 10/10/2022 at 9:51 AM, cartm25 said:

All I'm saying is scheme, continuity, time to develop, and coaching all matter.

I am in agreement with that, but the perfect storm of it all coming together--as it has for Bo at Oregon with Dilly is very low-probability.

 

In fact those who assert that what Dilly is doing is proof to the contrary of my axiom...are actually proving my point.  Look what Dilly has done with Bo despite the odds, and yet Ty is not responding to it?  What is it going to take with Ty?

 

Greatness and weakness emerge early.

[Haywarduck]

On 10/10/2022 at 9:51 AM, cartm25 said:

I disagree. Bo got lucky in that game. The Ducks gave that game away.

 

- Nix:  13/31 (42%), 177, 2 TD, 2 INT

 

 

Given the way TT has looked in his opportunities so far, Butterfield SHOULD get the next opportunity in garbage time.

Great stats to substantiate your take! Dilly coached Bo when he had those stats. Bo would be clobbered on here with his freshman, sophomore stats. Is Ty just doing what Bo would have?

 

Also agree it would be nice to see Butters get a shot. It might do both of the back-ups good. I will say I hope the fans don't crucify him if he doesn't look all world in garbage time.

 

It is amazing when a starter struggles everyone loves the back-up. When the starter is good everyone worries about the back-up and no one measures up. Kind of predictable emotional response patterns.

 

I just hope the coaches and the players keep their heads down while plowing ahead. We are lucky to have Bo, and we need to develop our back-ups.

[DUCati855]

On 10/9/2022 at 9:43 PM, cartm25 said:

Then Bo was sent to Ducks school and with every passing game he looks more and more like an “Eagle”.

I don't know.... Bo looks more like a DUCK to me! Ha!

 

Ty..? So far he kind of reminds me of a Penguin. But, I'm still hoping he learns to fly.

Edited October 10, 2022 by DUCati855

[nw777b]

On 10/10/2022 at 10:43 AM, Haywarduck said:

Great stats to substantiate your take! Dilly coached Bo when he had those stats. Bo would be clobbered on here with his freshman, sophomore stats. Is Ty just doing what Bo would have?

 

Also agree it would be nice to see Butters get a shot. It might do both of the back-ups good. I will say I hope the fans don't crucify him if he doesn't look all world in garbage time.

 

It is amazing when a starter struggles everyone loves the back-up. When the starter is good everyone worries about the back-up and no one measures up. Kind of predictable emotional response patterns.

 

I just hope the coaches and the players keep their heads down while plowing ahead. We are lucky to have Bo, and we need to develop our back-ups.

This is where I feel our perspectives are muddying the points we're trying to make.

 

Again, I'm rooting for Ty to succeed.

 

But I'm not pointing out stats.  It's many of the other aspects a QB needs at the FBS level to succeed that Ty isn't demonstrating.

 

In the other thread, notice I mentioned a hand off, not a pass play as an example of when I don't see a leader. I've only seen him watch the play once he's done the minimum task.

 

I agree the Bo Nix stats his first game are not good. But watch the Eagle in his first game. Does this last drive look like the Bo we see today?

(I can't see Ty doing this today. Prove me wrong, Ty. Please!)

 

 

 

[Mic]

On 10/10/2022 at 10:30 AM, Charles Fischer said:

Ty is not responding to it?  What is it going to take with Ty?

Maybe a hard, swift kick in the rear end?  (perhaps figuratively).

 

I can tell you it worked for us when we were learning how to play football and the ball coach thought we weren't either paying attention, or giving it effort.  Or both.

[Chas Man]

I recall watching back up qb’s for San Jose State & Fresno State come into the game at Autzen and throw the ball all over the field. They weren’t NFL bound, but they were athletes that displayed a will to compete. Then I watch TT come in and… It’s hard to get your head around what you are seeing.

[Charles Fischer]

On 10/10/2022 at 1:33 PM, Chas Man said:

I recall watching back up qb’s for San Jose State & Fresno State come into the game at Autzen and throw the ball all over the field. They weren’t NFL bound, but they were athletes that displayed a will to compete. Then I watch TT come in and… It’s hard to get your head around what you are seeing.

True!

 

As a new OBD member--I hope you will post your thoughts often.  The water is SAFE in this Duck Pond...WELCOME!

[debbieduck]

Ty hasn’t been used, and now a new top gun is coming to Oregon next year.  
 

Sorry but if I am Ty’s dad, I’m telling him to head to UCLA or Oregon State.   
 

Or look at a big 12 school.  
 

Not to mention Butterfield.  Many think he is better than Ty.  
 

Why compete with all that when you do not have too? 
 

 

[DUCKS4OUUO]

Anybody remember AJ Feeley?    He didn't do a lot here.  Joey took over for him.

Feeley had the better pro career.  I don't know Ty Thompson sort of reminds me of Feeley.  Maybe Thompson will develop, but he sure looks robotic out there.

[Charles Fischer]

Actually Butterfield reminds me more of AJ Feeley and I have referred to this comparison before.