De-Recruiting in Div 1 Football

[DanLduck]

Colarado and "Neon" Dion are showing the college football world what the transfer portal is all about.

He has kicked off half the players from last years roster, and not worried about tact in the process.

 

As bad as this looks, our Ducks are 2nd in losing the most players!

We all know also, that half of kids in

portal won't land anywhere. Is this really the way of the future?

Is winning at any cost, making the playoff, really the end- all, be-all?

 

I guess if we're gonna pay the kids to play, they need to produce.

But what of coaching? Helping a kid develop?

 

I would love to hear from our great OBD faithful. What are your thoughts about these huge turnovers?

 

I'm not even trying to learn our roster until Sept, too much change.

[Annie]

Players being "encouraged" to transfer out makes me sad. I think of the joy of the players, coaches, and fans when those players committed to the Ducks, and the excitement. I hope that those entering the portal because of pressure will find a good place to land and have success with their new teams.

 

I'm hoping that as the current crop of coaches have the players they recruited in place, that pressure to transfer out will be reduced significantly or even eliminated.

 

 

[1Funduck]

This is a very touchy subject. We think of the kids first and thats the lense we look through. The flip side is that these are Young Men getting a scholarship for their service. If their service isn't needed then....

 

It sounds cold but I would refer our thinking to that of any business. Do you keep employees on the payroll if you don't need them? Do you keep kids on the roster that will most likely not see the field? 

 

It's a business. These kids asked if not begged for NIL. This is the drawback of it all. The more you make this a business the more it will look and feel like one. 

 

Everybody's job is on the line. 

[Charles Fischer]

As fans....we are torn by the double-edged sword of having a staff of great recruiters.  They can go out and get most of the current holes filled with portal transfers, and that discourages the young 3-Star players from staying and developing because he can see the talent ahead of him.

 

And he knows that this staff will recruit reams of 4/5-Star players in future classes, thus a tough road.  I don't blame either side, but when you have great recruiting like this...there is a cost. 

 

How many running backs left Oregon? Are you happy with what the
coaches recruited--the running back room at the moment?  (An example)

[Annie]

On 4/27/2023 at 3:09 PM, Charles Fischer said:

As fans....we are torn by the double-edged sword of having a staff of great recruiters.  They can go out and get most of the current holes filled with portal transfers, and that discourages the young 3-Star players from staying and developing because he can see the talent ahead of him.

 

...

 

I know things change, and it's nice to see the talent Oregon now gets, but I do fondly remember 3-star recruits, or even walk-ons, succeeding at Oregon. Wes Mallard, Jeb Weaver, to name a couple

[Steven A]

Unfortunately, not everyone is playing with the same deck, but it has always been that way. 

 

Previously with the old 105 scholarship limit and non-existent transfer rules, it was basically indentured servitude for the haves. 

 

Then the $ECs and U$Cs of the past with their deep pocketed donors and non-existent NCAA oversight held the edge.

 

Now, with the NIL and open portal, a bit more haves have entered the picture.

 

It's the new Darwinism of college sports.

 

So, we have to suck it up and play with the cards we are dealt.  Fortunately, we have an "Ace" uncle (of two) to assist us.

 

 

[Steven A]

On 4/27/2023 at 2:35 PM, DanLduck said:

Colarado and "Neon" Dion are showing the college football world what the transfer portal is all about.

He has kicked off half the players from last years roster, and not worried about tact in the process.

Travis Gray, the son of Lamarr Gray, a linebacker on Colorado’s 1990 national championship team. 

Gray received a text message from offensive line coach Bill O’Boyle the day after Colorado’s Spring Game, asking him to come to the team facility to meet with Sanders. 

"I was like, ‘Oh, God.’ I saw the mean mug in his face," Gray said. "He told me, ‘You’re 6-foot-8, 320 pounds. I know in my heart of hearts a school is going to pick you up in the portal when you enter. Make your weaknesses your strengths and keep progressing. I hope you have a great future, it just won’t be here at the University of Colorado.’"

[Haywarduck]

The good, if you really are that great and can produce there is NIL money. The bad if you really aren't that good, and don't produce the scholarship may not be there. Welcome to the new world of college football.

 

For every Gonzo who transfers and is extremely successful, there are many more who never leave the transfer portal. We can say we don't like it, but it is the way college football has evolved. 

 

To me it seems like shopping for players in the December to January time frame is more fruitful. The players who have proved themselves at a lesser school hit the portal looking for a better place to show their skills. Oregon is a perfect place to upgrade at that time like we did with Gonzo.

 

The problem now is we need a few players, and we might get stuck with underperformers. As Charles has noted, when you pick up a transfer you are liable for his scholarship for the length of his education, produce or not. 

 

I wonder if we fill our scholarship max with transfers if we have more transfers out, or will they hold a few for the better transfer window in January?

[JDuck]

Kids get recruited based on what they do in High School.  Teams with good coaches (1. Player Development  2. A nose for talent that finds and develops those 3 Star Mariotas and LaMichaels and many others) will do fine.  You offer a scholarship based on what you saw of the kid.  If they work hard and try, they deserve the scholarship until they graduate (up to 5 years). 

 

As long as they don't do stupid stuff (armed robbery) although if Darron Thomas star QB says "we smoked it all occifer" and doesn't get booted, the same standard should apply to the other kids.  We gave a few DUI kids another chance too.

[Jon Joseph]

On 4/27/2023 at 5:35 PM, DanLduck said:

Colarado and "Neon" Dion are showing the college football world what the transfer portal is all about.

He has kicked off half the players from last years roster, and not worried about tact in the process.

 

As bad as this looks, our Ducks are 2nd in losing the most players!

We all know also, that half of kids in

portal won't land anywhere. Is this really the way of the future?

Is winning at any cost, making the playoff, really the end- all, be-all?

 

I guess if we're gonna pay the kids to play, they need to produce.

But what of coaching? Helping a kid develop?

 

I would love to hear from our great OBD faithful. What are your thoughts about these huge turnovers?

 

I'm not even trying to learn our roster until Sept, too much change.

You have a choice. A player right out of high school or a player who has game experience. Experience against more experienced players and for the most part better competition than in high school.

 

I'd rather pay for the more experienced player. Gonzalez was a very good player who shined in a system with better players around him.

 

I'll take the guy with experience.

[Jon Joseph]

On 4/27/2023 at 8:48 PM, JDuck said:

Kids get recruited based on what they do in High School.  Teams with good coaches (1. Player Development  2. A nose for talent that finds and develops those 3 Star Mariotas and LaMichaels and many others) will do fine.  You offer a scholarship based on what you saw of the kid.  If they work hard and try, they deserve the scholarship until they graduate (up to 5 years). 

 

As long as they don't do stupid stuff (armed robbery) although if Darron Thomas star QB says "we smoked it all occifer" and doesn't get booted, the same standard should apply to the other kids.  We gave a few DUI kids another chance too.

Great comment. But if you are going to win it all the portal is the fastest way to a Blue Chip roster. The top-ranked players in the portal have already been coached up compared to players right out of HS.

[Jon Joseph]

On 4/27/2023 at 7:57 PM, Steven A said:

Travis Gray, the son of Lamarr Gray, a linebacker on Colorado’s 1990 national championship team. 

Gray received a text message from offensive line coach Bill O’Boyle the day after Colorado’s Spring Game, asking him to come to the team facility to meet with Sanders. 

"I was like, ‘Oh, God.’ I saw the mean mug in his face," Gray said. "He told me, ‘You’re 6-foot-8, 320 pounds. I know in my heart of hearts a school is going to pick you up in the portal when you enter. Make your weaknesses your strengths and keep progressing. I hope you have a great future, it just won’t be here at the University of Colorado.’"

Would it be better if the coach had strung the kid along? Seems like there is a lot of truth-telling going on in Boulder.

 

This is a business. Businesses to be successful have to make tough employee decisions all of the time.

 

Don't look now but plenty of Oregon players have entered the portal since DL arrived. I believe DL is telling many of the kids the truth that they won't be getting playing time in Eugene.

 

Colorado has sold out its 2023 season allotment of season tickets. Last season CU averaged 17.400 in attendance. This alone makes the investment in Deion a smart business move. And $450,000 in revenue for the spring game also hits the bottom line.

[DrJacksPlaidPants]

With the new transfer rules there is an expectation to win immediately. This means the coaches are on an even shorter leash than they were before. Therefore, they’re treating their rosters like an NFL coach would. This means making cuts and signing free agents.

 

The worst thing to happen to Brian Kelly at LSU was Kim Mulky winning the national championship in her second season. I’m sure their AD got on the phone with him after the championship game and said “It’s your turn”.

[FG Lumber]

I hate what's happening to college football.  It's now the pros.  Those with $$$ will make those without almost an afterthought.  I have been going to Oregon games since 1963 (while Jr. in High School) and after having had season tickets for 43 yrs, now doubt that I'll ever attend another game.  

Looks like fishing, golf and pickleball are my final outlets.  

How sad

[Drake]

I choose not to get too concerned about the transfer portal. 

 

Seems to me that if players are being “unfairly forced” to give up their scholarships by abusive coaching staffs it would become a newsworthy event, and we would find out about it through the media.
 

Until then, I can’t get overly worried about the things that I personally choose not to follow too closely. 

[Haywarduck]

On 4/28/2023 at 6:43 AM, cartm25 said:

If a player is offered a scholarship, is it actually taken away from an academic perspective?

 

For example, player just offered scholarship for next year. Coach immediately fired. New coach says you’re not my guy, you’re off the team. Can the player still get his education paid for, at least for the year the scholarship covered?

 

Another way of asking. If a player at Stanford isn’t the best and the coach says, “This isn’t for you, go somewhere else.” Can the player take a stand and say, “I don’t care. Stanford offered me a scholarship and I’m going to take advantage of the education.” ?

 

How does the scholarship process work for athletes? What power do the coaches have? What power do players have?

 

Seems unfair that a player on scholarship for 2023 given by a prior coach with the University’s blessing, can have it taken away by new coach Deion. Does the school still have to honor the scholarship even if the player decides not to play because the coach said “take a hike”?

 

Sorry for the 20 questions and even asking the same question in different ways. Need to understand this before I can form an opinion on all this.

 

Tagging a few others who’ve followed this topic longer than me: @Jon Joseph, @Charles Fischer

Scholarships are offered, and until signed are not binding. Most scholarships are binding for one year, and renewed for up to 5 years, Covid, extended this length.

 

Scholarships can be binding for multi years, and I think Charles mentioned transfers get a locked scholarship, all the way until they get their 5 years.

 

One way to look at it is if an academic scholarship is given and the students grades drop, they lose their scholarship. I suppose, the same is happening with athletic scholarships, if your performance drops you lose it. Transfers aren't the same, they get the full length, unless the scholarship athlete decides to move on.

 

I don't think I covered everything you asked but hope this helps. Maybe others can chime in, correct me, add on?

[Charles Fischer]

On 4/28/2023 at 6:43 AM, cartm25 said:

Seems unfair that a player on scholarship for 2023 given by a prior coach with the University’s blessing, can have it taken away by new coach Deion. Does the school still have to honor the scholarship even if the player decides not to play because the coach said “take a hike”?

The rule is, for the first year of a coach--he does not have a limit on how many players can be ushered out, and can replace as many as he wants.  However the players can still be on academic scholarship, not practice with the team, and not count against the 85 scholarship limit if they want to finish their education at that school.  But who wants to be at a school that does not want them?  And most still want to play--even if at a lower level.

 

A portal transfer can turn around and transfer a second time--but with the second time he will have to wait a year before being able to play again.  Since most players that transfer have the pressure to play and perform well in their junior year--most players do not have the luxury of sitting out a year.  Thus schools have to be very careful about who they bring in as a portal transfer because they will be locked into these transfers.  If it does not work out, then you have burned a scholarship, and you have not solved your roster problem.

 

As for all the other rules?  Between my advancing age, (66) and my love of tasty Oregon Craft Beer IPAs....I've lost too many brain cells to remember the boring rules.  Well that, and they change often, and I work full-time and cannot stay up with them.

 

I am sure it can all be searched for and found on the web...

 

[Charles Fischer]

On 4/28/2023 at 8:12 AM, Drake said:

I choose not to get too concerned about the transfer portal. 

Agreed.  Remember how the portal was going to be "the death" of college football, and be highly detrimental to Our Beloved Ducks?

 

Wrong. Lanning is using the portal better than the vast majority of teams, and I will be writing about this later.  Despite all the changes in college football?

 

Oregon will be fine.

[Jon Joseph]

On 4/28/2023 at 9:43 AM, cartm25 said:

If a player is offered a scholarship, is it actually taken away from an academic perspective?

 

For example, player just offered scholarship for next year. Coach immediately fired. New coach says you’re not my guy, you’re off the team. Can the player still get his education paid for, at least for the year the scholarship covered?

 

Another way of asking. If a player at Stanford isn’t the best and the coach says, “This isn’t for you, go somewhere else.” Can the player take a stand and say, “I don’t care. Stanford offered me a scholarship and I’m going to take advantage of the education.” ?

 

How does the scholarship process work for athletes? What power do the coaches have? What power do players have?

 

Seems unfair that a player on scholarship for 2023 given by a prior coach with the University’s blessing, can have it taken away by new coach Deion. Does the school still have to honor the scholarship even if the player decides not to play because the coach said “take a hike”?

 

Sorry for the 20 questions and even asking the same question in different ways. Need to understand this before I can form an opinion on all this.

 

Tagging a few others who’ve followed this topic longer than me: @Jon Joseph, @Charles Fischer

In the Pac-12 except for valid disciplinary reasons behind a player no longer being on the team scholarships are honored.

 

You can if you so decide to do so, remain where you are and receive a tuition-free education without breaking a sweat in practice.

[Jon Joseph]

On 4/28/2023 at 1:11 PM, Charles Fischer said:

The rule is, for the first year of a coach--he does not have a limit on how many players can be ushered out, and can replace as many as he wants.  However the players can still be on academic scholarship, not practice with the team, and not count against the 85scholarship limit if they want to finish their education at that school.  But who wants to be at a school that does not want them?  And most still want to play--even if at a lower level.

 

A portal transfer can turn around and transfer again--but he will have to wait a year before being able to play again.  Since most players that transfer have the pressure to play and perform well in their junior year--most players do not have the luxury of sitting out a year.  Thus schools have to be very careful about who they bring in as a portal transfer.  If it does not work out, then you have burned a scholarship and you have not solved your roster problem.

 

As for all the other rules?  Between my advancing age, (66) and my love of tasty Oregon Craft Beer IPAs....I've lost too many brain cells to remember the boring rules.  Well that, and they change often, and I work full-time and cannot stay up with them.

 

I am sure it can all be searched for and found on the web...

 

I want some of the ABOVE! Darn it, now I'm thirsty for an adult beverage. 

 

Why do they call it an adult beverage when imbibing often leads to acting like a juvenile? 

[Drake]

On 4/28/2023 at 9:21 AM, Haywarduck said:

One way to look at it is if an academic scholarship is given and the students grades drop, they lose their scholarship. I suppose, the same is happening with athletic scholarships, if your performance drops you lose it. Transfers aren't the same, they get the full length, unless the scholarship athlete decides to move on.

From an academic standpoint college is certainly not for everyone, and high level D1 football attracts talented athletes, but many of them would never receive an academic scholarship.
 

A high percentage of non student athletes leave college without a degree. There are a lot of people that can say they have attended college, much fewer that actually graduate.

 

Student athletes are no different. They may also be academically challenged beyond their capabilities. 

 

Student athletes need even more discipline to maintain their grades than others, that is assuming that they have the goal of obtaining a degree. Some really don’t have that as their main goal.
 

All the tutoring Oregon scholarship athletes have available does not guarantee success….Unless you are a highly coveted athlete…then that story might be somewhat different…

[JW Approved]

It seems to me that this is the slippery slope we've mentioned before. 

 

Whether I like it or not, is of no concern. The players wanted this. They are able to benefit from their success, and that is wonderful. If a coach has an opportunity to move to greener pastures, they can. The players also wanted that freedom, and now they have it.

 

However, if a coach isn't successful, he can be fired. The players are beginning to see that bitter part of the world. 

 

Right now, everyone is learning to navigate these new seas. 

 

Go Ducks!!!

[Washington Waddler]

     The greatest carnage created by the transfer portal appears to be in transitional NIL-focused programs with head coaches in their 1st and 2nd years. Both Lanning and Sanders have the mandate, means and the vision-driven will to recreate their programs in their own image. 
 

     I don’t think you see this same level of student wreckage in other high-powered programs with more settled coaching situations. Transfers occur both in and out, but they are not trying to rebuild an image of themselves which hopefully allows college ‘coaching’ to still happen in the development of potential.

 

     Because the transfer portal has such a dramatic effect on program situations like those currently at Oregon and Colorado, perhaps the rules committee might want to revisit how the student part of the equation can be dealt with more fairly.

 

     For me, the primary purpose of a university is still to help develop young adult, whether athlete or not. The mad rush to leave behind the concept of player development in order to just win is contrary to that promise. If you’re that afraid of being left behind, perhaps the NFL is a better fit for your longings?

[Charles Fischer]

On 4/28/2023 at 10:32 AM, JW Approved said:

However, if a coach isn't successful, he can be fired. The players are beginning to see that bitter part of the world. 

Well said, Duck-Brother.  This is a method of "firing" unsuccessful players, with new rules that the players initiated, and now--is it truly better for them now than before?

 

A great ponder-point...

[Charles Fischer]

On 4/28/2023 at 10:59 AM, Washington Waddler said:

The greatest carnage created by the transfer portal appears to be in transitional NIL-focused programs with head coaches in their 1st and 2nd years.

I used to think that too, but boy...the pressure on a coach to get the team to elite status and keep the team there is so enormous...  I am not sure if Coach Lanning will slow down his portal recruiting in the future--do you?

[DanLduck]

On 4/28/2023 at 11:03 AM, Charles Fischer said:

I used to think that too, but boy...the pressure on a coach to get the team to elite status and keep the team there is so enormous...  I am not sure if Coach Lanning will slow down his portal recruiting in the future--do you?

I hope he does. Once he has stacked 3 or 4 recruiting classes, you might expect him to already have his guys. Then he can grab one or two as needed.

(See AL taking a qb this year)

[JDuck]

On 4/27/2023 at 10:56 PM, Jon Joseph said:

Great comment. But if you are going to win it all the portal is the fastest way to a Blue Chip roster. The top-ranked players in the portal have already been coached up compared to players right out of HS.

I don't disagree Jon, but just saying, if they try hard for you they deserve to be there even if they don't ever see the field much.  "Kicking kids out" doesn't seem right.  If a kid chooses to bail hoping for playing time that's on them.

[Washington Waddler]

On 4/28/2023 at 11:03 AM, Charles Fischer said:

I used to think that too, but boy...the pressure on a coach to get the team to elite status and keep the team there is so enormous...  I am not sure if Coach Lanning will slow down his portal recruiting in the future--do you?

     You may be right. But, I believe the jury is still out concerning the eventual effect on programs of treating and trading college level players like commodity market acquisitions. There may be a reaction to this as yet somewhere down the road. Is it wise to put all your eggs into the basket that says you can simply buy success? Not sure.

[Pennsylvania Duck]

On 4/28/2023 at 2:03 PM, Charles Fischer said:

I am not sure if Coach Lanning will slow down his portal recruiting in the future--do you?

I think Lanning would like to develop his recruits, but percentages tell us that not all recruits work out to expectations. There is no way Lanning slows down his portal recruiting. I can't remember how many times I have heard him say in interviews, and I am paraphrasing here, " If there is a player available that can improve our team, we are interested." The portal is a great back-up for Lanning if his recruits don't work out or the team needs improvement in specific areas.

 

I don't like the harsh technique that Coach Prime uses to move his players into the portal, however  all teams are doing it in some form or fashion now. Teams have hired personnel to manage this which makes it like a business where underperformers are shown the door. It's certainly not a business for the soft hearted.

[GeotechDuck]

On 4/28/2023 at 10:32 AM, JW Approved said:

It seems to me that this is the slippery slope we've mentioned before. 

 

Whether I like it or not, is of no concern. The players wanted this. They are able to benefit from their success, and that is wonderful. If a coach has an opportunity to move to greener pastures, they can. The players also wanted that freedom, and now they have it.

 

However, if a coach isn't successful, he can be fired. The players are beginning to see that bitter part of the world. 

 

Right now, everyone is learning to navigate these new seas. 

 

Go Ducks!!!

This is a great post.  In life, you can't have the reward without assuming the risk.  These "kids" begged to be treated like adults with jobs, income, responsibility and pressure to perform.  Hey college athletes, welcome to the real world!   

 

I have no issue with what is going on in Colorado or Oregon right now.  Under the new structure, these "kids" are essentially paid professional athletes.  If they are not performing, cut them immediately and move on.  This is nothing more than a business now.   

[Charles Fischer]

On 4/28/2023 at 1:50 PM, GeotechDuck said:

Under the new structure, these "kids" are essentially paid professional athletes.  If they are not performing, cut them immediately and move on.  This is nothing more than a business now.   

And in my view....they did not appreciate the value of what they had before all of this began.  We figured in 2020 a football scholarship in terms of total benefits came out to nearly 2 million dollars...

 

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