Is it Time to Break up the Pac-12?

[ICamel]

Who will be the first to leave?

Oregon?

USC?

[Charles Fischer]

I am not ready yet for that....I want more time to see what new commish has in mind.  He blew it, but can recover?

[30Duck]

Oregon and USC should both leave immediately, the Big 12 just lost two teams. Oregon and USC are two great looking houses in a neighborhood full of shacks. Without getting into all the innerworkings, what is helping Oregon and USC by staying tetheed to the weakest P5 conference?

 

Other than Oregon and USC, the other teams are either unequipped financially to compete at a championship level, and.or, their administration isn't interested in doing so. 

[Log Haulin]

The Pac is one of the most storied conference's in collegiate athletics. It will never happen. Football is one of many sports involved in the conference.  Impossible thought imo.

[Log Haulin]

On 1/1/2022 at 7:28 PM, 30Duck said:

Oregon and USC should both leave immediately, the Big 12 just lost two teams. Oregon and USC are two great looking houses in a neighborhood full of shacks. Without getting into all the innerworkings, what is helping Oregon and USC by staying tetheed to the weakest P5 conference?

 

Other than Oregon and USC, the other teams are either unequipped financially to compete at a championship level, and.or, their administration isn't interested in doing so. 

Utes just took tOSU to the wire. QB stays healthy and they beat bucky.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Log Haulin

[30Duck]

On 1/1/2022 at 7:31 PM, Log Haulin said:

Utes just took tOSU to the wire. QB stays healthy and they beat bucky.

 

 You're right. Utah is solid, bring em along with the Ducks and Trojans. 

[Log Haulin]

On 1/1/2022 at 7:33 PM, 30Duck said:

 

 You're right. Utah is solid, bring em along with the Ducks and Trojans. 

Get three teams playing at a high level and the Pac is just as competitive as any, including the SEC. Was hoping Fusky could raise their play but after today they are a mess. 

[30Duck]

On 1/1/2022 at 7:37 PM, Log Haulin said:

Get three teams playing at a high level and the Pac is just as competitive as any, including the SEC.

 

 UCLA could be good, but it was USC, then it was Oregon and Stanford. One year, Washington got to the CFP.  Can the Pac-12 get to where it has 4.5 teams with legitimate shots at the CFP regularly? 

[HappyToBeADuck]

The new commissionet and PAC presidents may have dealt the conference a lethal blow by not expanding.

 

By not eliminating the B12 thru a mega merger the conference has left itself vulnerable to possible predators.

 

What kind of academic prowess, arrogance or short sightedness does it take to not prepare yourself for the next TV contract.

 

Networks want eyeballs in different time zones. They want partners who put a great product on the fields or hardwoods. 

 

There are many reasons the PAC12 Network was a failure. But it seriously lacked eyeballs. Eyeballs that advertisers will spend money TV. Money that would have gone to P-12 schools.

 

The future BIG 12 had one team in the CFP and 2 in the New Years 6 Bowls. By the way those games were watched by millions on TV. 

 

Log Haulin is absolutely correct in that the P-12 isn't going anywhere. But a few members will be leaving for much bigger paydays.

 

The BIG 12 or BIG will come calling. A 4-team west coast division ensures one of those conferences the west coast time zone.  The networks will pay big dollars for that.

[David Marsh]

On 1/1/2022 at 7:50 PM, 30Duck said:

Can the Pac-12 get to where it has 4.5 teams with legitimate shots at the CFP regularly? 

Actually... I think this isn't unreasonable. 

 

Oregon is in all honesty getting an upgrade at HC. 

 

USC has enough hype behind Riley to get them back on track, at least in recruiting though on field results may take another year. 

 

Utah is solid... They have a formula that works for them and they will keep that going for as long as Whittingham is there. 

 

The problem is who comes in at number 4... If this was five years ago Stanford would be higher on the list but the NIL and transfer portal stuff negitvely impacts them more than the average school. 

 

Washington? Hahaha.. I just made a funny. 

 

Oregon State in another year would certainly be the .5 you mentioned but they are trending in the right direction with the right leadership. 

 

Arizona, ASU and Colorado... I don't feel it... However, ASU may be another .5 ... Maybe not a perennial power team. 

 

However, I'd argue that even one power house that can actually win the National Championship would be enough to carry the conference. Clemson has done it for the ACC. 

[30Duck]

On 1/1/2022 at 8:02 PM, David Marsh said:

 

Oregon State in another year would certainly be the .5 you mentioned but they are trending in the right direction with the right leadership. 

 

 It would be great if Oregon State could get to a place where the Pac-12 5, ORE, USC, OSU, Utah,UCLA could compete like Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Wisconsin do.

[geoquack]

If Washington and Oregon State would go to the Big Sky, the quality of the conference would improve considerably.

[David Marsh]

On 1/1/2022 at 10:02 PM, geoquack said:

If Washington and Oregon State would go to the Big Sky, the quality of the conference would improve considerably.

Oregon state as of two of three years ago yes... 

 

But Oregon state this last season made a bowl game... Lost that bowl game but I would be shocked if they don't make a bowl again next year at the very least. They are trending in the right direction and just think of the dumpster fire they were under Gary Anderson.

 

Washington... Well... I think they'll be better post-Lake... Might take a year or two to sort themselves out but I think they can be a good but not great team. There is a strong argument to be made that they were only a good-not-great team under Petersen who didn't win a single NY6 bowl game with Washington. Though Washington was perhaps one of the biggest embarrassments of the conference this year they have enough resources to bounce back.

 

The biggest problems in the Pac-12 aren't Oregon State and Washington in truth, but Cal, Arizona and Colorado. Those three are bad. Now I do actually love the coaching job Jed Fich is doing at Zona and I think he will have Zona marginally respectable in a few years.

 

Colorado may get there but really getting anything going football wise at Colorado is difficult.

 

As for Cal... Well Wilcox needs an offense, which is a big reason why I don't think he'd be a good fit for Oregon, Cal doesn't have a consistently decent (let alone good) offense. 

[jrw]

College football is in total flux. Where it comes out is anyone’s guess. 

[Duck 1972]

I would hate to move out of our time zone. Just think of all the 9 am games and thousands miles air flights. Yuck

 

Also all we need is to understand with all the schools recruiting in a basically small footprint (West Coast lowest population base) I believe it's unlikely to impossible for more than 2 to 4 good teams in any one season. 

 

But as pointed out the acc has only 1 to 2 good teams and that's enough.

 

There has to be a another answer, unless there's a country wide super conference. That would change everything.

[Guest Axel]

Talk of breaking up the Pac-12 is way premature. Leave the number of schools as they are; focus on strengthening the member schools.

 

Going from 9 to 8 conference football games would be a step in the right direction. Playing one fewer conference game would reduce wear and tear on rosters, improve teams' win-loss records, and increase the numbers of bowl-eligible teams. The Pac-12 gets no credit from outsiders for playing a 9-conference-game schedule. Often times, the conference is its own worst enemy. 

 

If Oregon and USC bolted to join some jumbled assemblage of schools from the South or Midwest, the Ducks would cut ties with long-time rivals like Oregon State, Washington, and Stanford. The mere mention of those schools stirs up passionate, even hostile feelings. That's the point, though. Those are the rivals that we want to annihilate on the field of play. The more we don't like them, the more satisfying the wins. 

 

It's difficult to imagine a football schedule that doesn't include games--make-or-break conference games--against the likes of the Beavers, Huskies, and Cardinal, not to mention other Pac-12 schools like Washington State, Cal, and UCLA. Let's not be rash about abandoning rivalries that go back generations. 

[Haywarduck]

Oregon and sc have stepped up and done what was needed to stay, become competitive. It is now on the commissioner to make it economically viable for both teams to continue to spend this way.

 

If the commissioner can't get a tv contract to help, or lead the conference out of the mess larry left us in then Oregon and sc may have to leave. It is pure economics. 

 

Coaches leave for more money, better situations, so will programs. We see it all over the rest of college football, why would it be different here?

 

The next move is for George to show he has what it takes to lead the conference. If he doesn't show he can lead, then programs might start leading, leaving, stay tuned.

[30Duck]

On 1/1/2022 at 8:02 PM, David Marsh said:

However, I'd argue that even one power house that can actually win the National Championship would be enough to carry the conference. Clemson has done it for the ACC. 

 

Right, but Clemson had a run of 5 consecutive CFP appearances, winning 2 Championships. As a conference the Pac-12 hasn't come close to that. Because of the ACC's Network's affiliation with ESPN, it's sounder financially, but a joke competitively., though the ACC might have won at least 1 Bowl game this season. 

[idontrollonshobbas]

I am beginning to think that the college Presidents are a bigger problem than the Commish.

[HappyToBeADuck]

The PAC needs a standard bearer to carry the conference. A team that gets to the CFP at least 2 or 3 years in a row. 

 

The perception of the PAC will not change because SC or Oregon go 10-2. I am talking 13-0 or 12-1 after the PAC Championship.

 

So how do we get there? And do we have 12 conference members who want to get there?

 

First, recognize the mistakes made. Own it academia......

 

Then, fix it........

 

8 conference games. Play a creme puff lste in the season to rest a few dinged up players

 

Don't have your top teams play each other late in the season. Unless it's in your own division. In the SEC,  I think Georgia and Bama play every 6 seasons during the regular season.

 

If Oregon has to play SC or Utah, play it early in the season. In the new contract, sell those games as prime time only. Negotiate smart for a change.

 

For a conference full of academic prowess we sure have seen a lot of stupid, foolish decisions made. Like selling out the Rose Bowl to an empty promise. 

 

Conference members must make large dollar investments into their programs or get out.

 

Sell or merge the Network with Fox or ESPN. Those networks will showcase what they own. The greed to control it all by the Presidents led to 100% of very little. 

 

A commitment to building winning programs. Is the commitment better or stronger in the MWC or at BYU?

 

Just do it as the slogan says.

[30Duck]

Y

On 1/2/2022 at 8:06 AM, HappyToBeADuck said:

Just do it as the slogan says.

 This and then the Pac-12 can be what Bill Walton says all the time, Conference of Champions!" 

[MaiTaiDuck]

On 1/1/2022 at 7:29 PM, Log Haulin said:

The Pac is one of the most storied conference's in collegiate athletics. It will never happen. Football is one of many sports involved in the conference.  Impossible thought imo.

It was once considered the Conference of Champions only to have Harvard Larry mess it up so bad that this is what we are seeing now. The new commissioner has his hands full and it might be way too late. I was calling for that guys head like 3 years after he took the job. The guy I find funny that he was hired and no football back ground. He showed it in every stupid move he did. I want to watch football preferably at around 1 PM not 7 at night. The new guy looked like he changed a little of that right off the bat. Doesn't matter time zone your in as 1 PM works.

[Jon Joseph]

On 1/1/2022 at 10:22 PM, ICamel said:

Who will be the first to leave?

Oregon?

USC?

 

YES! Before pledging media rights to the new deal Oregon and SC should get on the phone with Bob Bowlsby and see what kind of deal they make with the "New B12.' 

 

I respect Charles POV of course but SC and Oregon are the 2 schools with the money and the desire to compete at the highest level of CFB. IMO, the new commish already blew it by not expanding.

 

I want Oregon in a conference where the administrations give a whip and fans show up for games.

 

Should have added OK ST, TX Tech, Baylor, TCU, Houston, Kansas, K St and Iowa St. It's OK for Pac-12 teams to schedule Baylor and TCU but not OK to affiliate with these schools?

[HappyToBeADuck]

I am not sure which conference is up next for media rights negotiations.

 

That deal, how many bidding players and final dollar amounts will set the tone for what's to come.

 

Then each conference and or each school can make the choice that is in their best interest.

 

If you were a betting person which commission will make the calls to better position their conference for a big payday?

 

BIG 12 - BIG - AAC - PAC?

[Jemangi]

On 1/2/2022 at 11:17 AM, Jon Joseph said:

 

YES! Before pledging media rights to the new deal Oregon and SC should get on the phone with Bob Bowlsby and see what kind of deal they make with the "New B12.' 

 

I respect Charles POV of course but SC and Oregon are the 2 schools with the money and the desire to compete at the highest level of CFB. IMO, the new commish already blew it by not expanding.

 

I want Oregon in a conference where the administrations give a whip and fans show up for games.

 

Should have added OK ST, TX Tech, Baylor, TCU, Houston, Kansas, K St and Iowa St. It's OK for Pac-12 teams to schedule Baylor and TCU but not OK to affiliate with these schools?

Maybe..  Is certainly thought provoking , which is usually good.  

[The Kamikaze Kid]

I'm not sure we are even all on the same page about what the Pac 12 even is. As fans, we see it as an athletic conference like the Big 10, 12 and SEC. I think the conference presidents see it as an exclusive social club more like the Ivy League. I think they prioritize their elite membership over competing with other conferences for athletic supremacy and national branding.

 

Anyone paying attention to the fast changing organization of conference realignment could see that the Pac is falling far behind at an alarming rate.  To the Pac 12 presidents, the prestige  of membership out ways all other concerns. By any logical metric, the Pac 12 Network would be considered a dismal failure but to the Pac presidents, it's their pride and joy because it's theirs and theirs alone.

 

Against this back drop, how could the UO even consider leaving to join another more successful conference if it meant giving up club membership to the most exclusive club around? Would Harvard consider leaving the Ivy league for more financial gain in the ACC? Of course not and that is what I'm concerned about that is the heart of the problem. We may be stuck on a sinking ship because the captain doesn't want to suffer the indignity of unlocking the life boats.

[30Duck]

On 1/2/2022 at 11:54 AM, The Kamikaze Kid said:

We may be stuck on a sinking ship because the captain doesn't want to suffer the indignity of unlocking the life boats.

 

 You addressed the problem, Oregon's President Schill at least is showing an awareness of athletics at the U of O, which in a way is good, as he could be aware of the problem's we've been discussing concerning the Pac-12's place in the football world.

 

It could be that the President's at the Pac-12 schools are like a lot of the western US population and not as interested in college sports, maybe football in particular, as the rest of the country is. This bolsters my thought of Oregon needing to align itself with a more sports driven conference.

 

 

[Duck 1972]

If I remember correctly Scott did try to expand the PAC. Texas was in then it fell apart due to Texas. 

 

Was this Scott or the presidents fault.

 

Then the TV network. I remember it being discussed as a brilliant idea at the time.

 

Is that Scott's fault or just the time zone problem with the rest of the country, lack of interest or something else

 

What do you think?

Edited January 2, 2022 by Duck 1972
Missing info

[ICamel]

IMHO the Pac12 as a Power 5 conference is a joke. We are not respected by the other conferences, much less the rest of the country. Respect is earned, and we haven't captured much of it lately.

 

Conference of Champions? Maybe conference of Olympic Sports champions?

 

Maybe we need to resign ourselves to being left coast sport "elites"?

 

"there’s very little debate that the Pac-12 doesn’t currently hold the bottom spot in the power rankings"

Edited January 2, 2022 by ICamel

[idontrollonshobbas]

On 1/2/2022 at 12:47 PM, 30Duck said:

 

 You addressed the problem, Oregon's President Schill at least is showing an awareness of athletics at the U of O, which in a way is good, as he could be aware of the problem's we've been discussing concerning the Pac-12's place in the football world.

 

It could be that the President's at the Pac-12 schools are like a lot of the western US population and not as interested in college sports, maybe football in particular, as the rest of the country is. This bolsters my thought of Oregon needing to align itself with a more sports driven conference.

 

 

Kamikaze and 30Duck make excellent points here about the passivity of Pac-12 presidents towards football. 

 

Other conference Presidents support football as a sport unto itself and a cultural institution that brings attention, students, boosters and donors to their schools.

 

I get the feeling that the Pac-12 Presidents "tolerate" football because of its revenue generation and Title IX benefits that pay for women's sports.  In that paradigm, just having the team is enough....competing and winning are secondary.

 

At Oregon it should be different.  Imagine the UO without the Knights' investments in both athletics and academia.  I am not certain that it is different though....it seems the faculty have as much sway as the AD's department.

Edited January 2, 2022 by idontrollonshobbas

[noDucknewby]

On 1/2/2022 at 1:47 PM, Duck 1972 said:

If I remember correctly Scott did try to expand the PAC. Texas was in then it fell apart due to Texas. 

 

Was this Scott or the presidents fault.

 

Then the TV network. I remember it being discussed as a brilliant idea at the time.

 

Is that Scott's fault or just the time zone problem with the rest of the country, lack of interest or something else

 

What do you think?

Yeah it was his fault because he wouldn't let Texas keep the Longhorn Network, which wound up being a deal-breaker for them.

[DaleNewton]

The PAC-12 has not won a bowl game since 2019, and has won one playoff game since the college football playoff started (both of those victories were by the Ducks).

 

Taken as a whole, college football has a parity problem. Of the 23 playoff games played so far,  Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, and Ohio State have won  20 of them.

[Jon Joseph]

On 1/2/2022 at 11:33 AM, HappyToBeADuck said:

I am not sure which conference is up next for media rights negotiations.

 

That deal, how many bidding players and final dollar amounts will set the tone for what's to come.

 

Then each conference and or each school can make the choice that is in their best interest.

 

If you were a betting person which commission will make the calls to better position their conference for a big payday?

 

BIG 12 - BIG - AAC - PAC?

 

The ACC is locked in with ESPN through 2036.

 

The BIG and the SEC's next media deals come up for bid before the Pac-12., ESPN is paying $300M plus to take over from CBS as the SEC's primary broadcaster. CBS was paying $55M a year.

I think FOX,  51% owner of the B1G network, will come large to be the exclusive media outlet for the B1G. 

 

After the new deals, every B1G and SEC team will be bringing in $70M+ a year. Pac-12? $35 to 40M.

 

The Pac-12 decided to stand pat. I will not be surprised if the 'new B12' doesn't bring in more money than the Pac-12. The PAC-12 football wise is not 'an exclusive club.'

 

2 teams in the Pac-12 have the desire and the money to be big time, Oregon and USC. If these 2 and possibly UW, CU, Utah and ASU do not look at joining the 'new B12' I think they are making a serious mistake. What does GK have to sell? 0-5 in bowl games. A bunch of disinterested fan bases. Recruiting budgets outside of SC and Oregon that are less than every SEC team except Vanderbilt. Recruiting #s that are way behind the curve. The 'leaders' of many the Pac-12 school couldn't care less about CFB.

 

It will be the Pac-12 very late at night. SC and Oregon should give an equal share to teams that spend peanuts of football compared to these 2?

 

And the Pac-12 Network. JV compared to the big boys. 

 

Ohio State QB JS Stroud, from SoCal is right. Pac-12 fans compared to B1G fans just don't give a whip.

[Washington Waddler]

Washington — but only to go outside to go potty because they’re not house-broken.

[Jon Joseph]

On 1/1/2022 at 11:09 PM, 30Duck said:

 

 It would be great if Oregon State could get to a place where the Pac-12 5, ORE, USC, OSU, Utah,UCLA could compete like Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Wisconsin do.

 

$?

[Jon Joseph]

On 1/1/2022 at 10:31 PM, Log Haulin said:

Utes just took tOSU to the wire. QB stays healthy and they beat bucky.

 

OK. But that was an Ohio State team missing 2 AA WRs and 6 starters on D. Utah scored 10 points in the 2nd half and the Utah DL was stymied by the Buckeyes OL. 80/20 Utah fans and Utah was incredibly geeked and the Buckeyes were not. Utah gave up over 500 yards through the air and Smith-Ngata  set an all time bowl receiving record.

[noDucknewby]

Here's an interesting interview with George Kliavkoff in the LA Times:

 

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2022-01-03/rose-bowl-george-kliavkoff-pac-12-conference-challenges

 

Nothing specific about conference expansion, but IMHO good takes on CFP expansion, moving to 8 conference games and the TV contracts.

[Jon Joseph]

On 1/3/2022 at 2:40 PM, noDucknewby said:

Here's an interesting interview with George Kliavkoff in the LA Times:

 

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2022-01-03/rose-bowl-george-kliavkoff-pac-12-conference-challenges

 

Nothing specific about conference expansion, but IMHO good takes on CFP expansion, moving to 8 conference games and the TV contracts.

 

Thank you. Now that B12 is reestablished where could the conference if it wanted to, expand? It's a question of $. SC and OR spend the $ necessary to be competitive and its partners do not. Partners that get an equal piece of the pie. The Pac-12 conference today makes no business sense for Oregon and SC. The Alliance is good protection for GK's job and that's about it. I don't expect the B1G to start sharing $ with the Pac-12 anytime soon.

[30Duck]

On 1/3/2022 at 11:33 AM, Jon Joseph said:

$?

 

 That is it of course. For all the good vibes coming out OSU, I don't see how they can sustain a Playoff contending level consistently. They're doing great with the portal, but I don't see them breaking through to a top 25 even recruiting ranking, which would put them on the very edge of what's needed. 

[noDucknewby]

On 1/3/2022 at 11:46 AM, Jon Joseph said:

 

Thank you. Now that B12 is reestablished where could the conference if it wanted to, expand? It's a question of $. SC and OR spend the $ necessary to be competitive and its partners do not. Partners that get an equal piece of the pie. The Pac-12 conference today makes no business sense for Oregon and SC. The Alliance is good protection for GK's job and that's about it. I don't expect the B1G to start sharing $ with the Pac-12 anytime soon.

 

Well the B1G and P12 had a scheduling agreement ready to go until Stanford and USC nixed it because they didn't want to jeopardize their annual ND matchup.  Would have been a perfect time to drop to 8 conference games, thanks Larry. 

 

Annual games with the B1G and ACC may just be pie in the sky, but I like his willingness to create a paradigm shift.  I guess we don't agree on the P12, I really hope it survives and I think Oregon and USC can be a big part of that.  That said, we really missed out on conference expansion and have boxed ourselves into a corner doing it.  The B12 was left for dead and decisive action on expansion put them ahead of the P12.

[Jon Joseph]

On 1/3/2022 at 2:57 PM, noDucknewby said:

 

Well the B1G and P12 had a scheduling agreement ready to go until Stanford and USC nixed it because they didn't want to jeopardize their annual ND matchup.  Would have been a perfect time to drop to 8 conference games, thanks Larry. 

 

Annual games with the B1G and ACC may just be pie in the sky, but I like his willingness to create a paradigm shift.  I guess we don't agree on the P12, I really hope it survives and I think Oregon and USC can be a big part of that.  That said, we really missed out on conference expansion and have boxed ourselves into a corner doing it.  The B12 was left for dead and decisive action on expansion put them ahead of the P12.

 

Fortune Favors The Bold. The 'new' B12 won the Sugar and Fiesta Bowl and had a final 4 team. Houston defeated an SEC team as did UCF. BYU lost its bowl game without its starting QB.