Mr. FishDuck: Explosion Plays, Fast-Tempo, 80+ Plays…Do You Believe It?

[FishDuck Article]

Some may not like the questions I am asking, but considering what happened before--isn't it reasonable?  I would love your input...

 

Explosion Plays, Fast-Tempo, 80+ Plays...Do You Believe It?

FISHDUCK.COM

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For many of us fans of the original Oregon Spread Offense under Coaches Mike Bellotti, Chip Kelly and Mark Helfrich, the excitement is palpable about the...

[Smith72]

Excellent article  Charles, and you are correct in your evaluation of Mari (no O) Cristobal!  Thank you Miami!

 

I love your photo of the "X Files" - I want to believe in Dan Lanning!  

[Just Ducky]

 It’s too bad we have to go back to taking MC down but he certainly deserves it. 

 

 It is also to bad that he wasted a potential Heisman trophy winner with his stubbornness and inability to coach a team during a game. Even as slow a pace as the offense was he could not keep up and as I said before his defenses couldn’t keep up as well.

 

 As far as Dan and company are concerned I believe we have a much more intelligent coaching staff that are younger and their brains might work a bit faster. can’t believe I just said that.

 

Hope I didn’t offend any old guard here but I’m in my 70s and my brain has slowed to a crawl. Took me an hour to jot this all down.

 

 So 80 plays a game! Maybe, but if not I bet my next Deshutes Hazy that they will be more fun to watch than they were the last few years and we as a group will not stress out and age any faster than we already are.

[Haywarduck]

There is intent and then there is ability. Mario may have intended to have an exciting offense, but he wasn't able to on any level. Just an analysis of his timeouts shows a critical flaw in his ability to play speed chess. I don't think he can even play chess, more like checkers, or maybe bumper cars is more up his alley of mindset and mental acuity. I don't mean to be attacking Mario, this is just the way it is. 

 

We now have another coach professing to want to play speed chess. Both Lanning and Dillingham seem to be up to the task. Lanning as a DC understands the advantages of playing fast. Dillingham seems willing to take the chances needed to play fast. It will then take follow through. Can you play a Stanford at a fast pace?

 

I think there will be games that look like a track meet. There will also be games we can't play at the pace and scheme they may want to. Did Ali want to play rope a dope against Foreman, no. It was the smartest move, and this is what I want to see from L&D on offense. We may not see speed ball every game, but hopefully we will see the shrewdest game plan for the situation we are in. 

 

What I don't want to see is just speed ball. I don't want to see a character flaw rear it's ugly head every game, which is actually easiest to defend. I want to see guys on the sideline one or more step ahead of the game in front of them. If that is a temp game great, but if they need to adjust I am ok with that, just win baby with innovation. Innovation is Oregon's calling card. I want to see innovation in situations once again!

[The Kamikaze Kid]

At first, I bought into Mario’s tough talk offensive philosophy as I thought that was what we needed to compete with the Stanford’s and SEC elite at the time. After it devolved into the Lombardi Ball red rover offense, I was off the bandwagon.

 

I think Mario’s fatal flaw is the need for total control. He is more comfortable with slowly but surely and predictability over taking risks.

He doesn’t trust his play makers to just go out there and make plays on either side of the ball. Conversely, that’s what Lanning seems to be all about.

I don’t care about lightning quick offense. I just want to see a coach that trusts his four and five star players to make four and five star plays.

 

[Charles Fischer]

On 5/6/2022 at 6:42 AM, Smith72 said:

love your photo of the "X Files" - I want to believe in Dan Lanning!  

Thanks!  I always wonder if people notice some of the extra work I go through on an article, as I found myself saying over-and-over..."I want to believe," and realized it came from X-Files.  Then it took a LONG time to find the right photo that was not copyrighted and available for an article.

 

For the forum--we can bring in any photo, but for a published article--much more difficult.

[Charles Fischer]

On 5/6/2022 at 6:58 AM, Haywarduck said:

Both Lanning and Dillingham seem to be up to the task.

OK, there is an assumption in your post that they WILL carry out the offense as we anticipate--due to what they have said.

 

It is just that...there are lots of things they could say later as to "why" they did not carry it out, both real and imagined.  I hope they stick to the impression they have given us...

[Charles Fischer]

On 5/6/2022 at 7:19 AM, The Kamikaze Kid said:

He doesn’t trust his play makers to just go out there and make plays on either side of the ball.

I agree with you and would assert he did not trust his assistant coaches either.  I do not believe we saw the "real" Joe Moorhead or Tim DeRuyter...not when their track records were so much better than what we saw.

[DazeNconfused]

Mario's offense was definitely limiting factor to the ceiling he could reach here. Think Tood Monken at Georgia's offense.

 

Lanning has had to defend Bama's Jones/Young at QB and all those WR's, he has seen all the film also game planning for them. Obviously, Lanning knows what that type of offense paired with his defense gives him. Lanning mentioned the talent here is why he came; he knows he has something to compete with out of the box. 

 

But it all comes down to the QB play in the end. Bo Nix hasn't showed me he is Bryce Young mentally or dropping dimes. I think how explosive the offensive will be is going to be QB play dependent.

 

The other huge factor is how good is Lanning's defense next year? With Dorlus, Popo, Taki in the middle, DJ, Funa, Swinson on the ends, Sewell, Flowe, Gonzalez, Manning, he has solid talent 5 of those who are top 100 guys. If the Defense, is shut down and the QB isn't taking care of the ball well then offense will be dialed back. 

 

My prediction is we are going to see lots of Todd Monken's offense he runs at Georgia with Stenson in 2021 when he took over. Lots of 11, some 12 personnel and not so much empty to start out. I'm sure there will be some shot plays taken but controlled how Monken did it. They ranked 26th in total offense, had about a 55% - 45% rush to pass, pretty good on 3rd down, took care of the ball in 2022.

 

Go look at AB's. Bo's and Stensons stats last year. Stenson threw for almost the same number of yards as AB with over 100 less pass attempts, 11 more TD's and higher QBR than AB or Bo. There is no reason to think Bo can't some in and match the type of numbers the Walk on Stenson did last year. 

 

But let's not kid ourselves and expect Bo is going to throw for 2000 yards more and 20 more TD's than Stenson this year like Bryce Young did last year.  We can expect better QB play, but I still think our offence is going to be QB limited.

[30Duck]

On 5/6/2022 at 7:19 AM, The Kamikaze Kid said:

I don’t care about lightning quick offense. I just want to see a coach that trusts his four and five star players to make four and five star plays.

This is where I am. I won't be counting the plays during the games and coming at Lanning-Ham with a pitchfork if the count didn't reach 80. If the offense is effective, in concert with the defense we're expecting, all will be fine.

 

[Charles Fischer]

80 plays is not a “must” for me either, but with all the talk from the two coaches—I would hope high scoring returns again.

[Jon Joseph]

DazeNfused. 

 

Great take but I think you are overlooking a key fact: Nix will be playing against Pac-12 and not SEC Ds. 

 

If the OL guys Mario recruited can play up to or near their recruiting rankings in this system, I think Nix and his receivers, including TEs and RBs have a chance to light up the majority of Ds they will see in the Pac-12. This includes a Utah pass D that was lost in space versus Ohio State. 

 

BTW, I'd rather run fewer than 80 plays as the result of 'sudden strike' scores. I see '80 plays' as being far more euphemistic than literal.

[PittDuck]

Great topic Charles, thank you!  A note of caution is not a bad thing, especially to “We Who Have Been Burned.”

 

For me, I WANT TO BELIEVE, but am almost scared to do so.  We have indeed, heard this line before.  I gotta believe that DL will indeed take the Ducks to the promised land!

 

Oh how we love to ponder about a triumphant return of our beloved High Flying Ducks!

[DimpleDucks]

Good article, Charles, and thanks for bringing up some points I've been considering since the Lanning hype began.

 

I've seen enough coaches come and go that I'm fairly skeptical of anything a program promises, intends or allows the media to trumpet on their behalf-- see the number 3 rank for the Ducks last season and the enormous let-down when fans realized we weren't anywhere close. I think Lanning will be a fine coach over a period of time. I'm not expecting much from his first two seasons and may be pleasantly surprised and glad if he exceeds my expectations. 

 

The problem here, I think, is not that he is selling us dreams that won't be fulfilled, it's that fans are generally unrealistic and expect all the moving parts to perform on command. Mario sold the idea that he could command that sort performance and fans/donors believed it. They also believed the shiny talk from Taggert. They use recruiting stars as supply to keep the fanatical addiction alive. Fans want "to believe" rather than watch and enjoy as it unfolds. Sure, we can dream, but we get out over our skis to our own dissatisfaction.

 

The coaches still need to coach, make adjustments, and coach again. Players need to play up to their star potential and then get better. Most importantly, they need to WIN and let their on field action be determinative of what they can achieve.

[Charles Fischer]

On 5/6/2022 at 9:09 AM, PittDuck said:

For me, I WANT TO BELIEVE, but am almost scared to do so.

That is ME to a "T."

 

I, so, WANT TO BELIEVE!

 

Such a cool screenshot off an episode....

[Jon Joseph]

I want to believe that back in the day I could have scored a date with the red head? But that is no doubt beyond belief.

[DazeNconfused]

On 5/6/2022 at 9:02 AM, Jon Joseph said:

DazeNfused. 

 

Great take but I think you are overlooking a key fact: Nix will be playing against Pac-12 and not SEC Ds. 

 

If the OL guys Mario recruited can play up to or near their recruiting rankings in this system, I think Nix and his receivers, including TEs and RBs have a chance to light up the majority of Ds they will see in the Pac-12. This includes a Utah pass D that was lost in space versus Ohio State. 

 

BTW, I'd rather run fewer than 80 plays as the result of 'sudden strike' scores. I see '80 plays' as being far more euphemistic than literal.

No, I'm not overlooking that Bo will be in the Pac and not the SEC.

I 'm just not confident he is going to break out and make a jump to elite.

 

I thought AB lead the Pac in passing yards last year?

If Bo matches that with 100 fewer pass attempts and 11 more TD's than I will be Thrilled! 

 

If Bo puts up 3900 yards and 30 TD's I will kiss a pig and love it, maybe he has it in him.

Bryce was 4900 and 47 TD's.

AB was 2900 and 18

Edited May 6, 2022 by DazeNconfused

[Drake]

One thing I remember watching was an introductory press conference with Lanning and Dillingham. When Dillingham stated that he wants to run 80 plays a game, Lanning followed up that comment up with somewhat of a disclaimer that framed that number up as a very high goal that might not be attained. 
 

Our defense will be formidable in the PAC 12. Therefore, if we stay healthy as a team, I believe that the offense will average closer to 40 points a game.
 

Our QB1 may not be sitting on the bench to start the 3rd quarter, but I think there will be plenty of 4th quarter experience gained by QB2 and QB3.

 

I believe….lol
 

 

[Jon Joseph]

On 5/6/2022 at 1:36 PM, DazeNconfused said:

No, I'm not overlooking that Bo will be in the Pac and not the SEC.

I 'm just not confident he is going to break out and make a jump to elite.

 

I thought AB lead the Pac in passing yards last year?

If Bo matches that with 100 fewer pass attempts and 11 more TD's than I will be Thrilled! 

 

If Bo puts up 3900 yards and 30 TD's I will kiss a pig and love it, maybe he has it in him.

Bryce was 4900 and 47 TD's.

AB was 2900 and 18

Great call on AB. Exemplifies the fact that for the 1st time since 2014 a Pac-12 QB was not invited to the combine.

[Goutes18]

I am sure the offense will be markedly better than last year.  There is a glaring difference between what I saw with MC in game 2 vs. Utah and Lanning in game 2 vs. Alabama.  Oregon’s offense didn’t look like they made any adjustments, so Utah just stuck to what worked in game 1 and it worked exactly the same in Vegas.  As many have noted, there were some real weak spots in the Utah secondary at the end of the year, but MC didn’t do enough to try to exploit that with an offense that had the talent to do so.   Contrast to Lanning and the adjustments he made to his defense after they got hammered in the first game.,  Maybe MC had already moved on but I was shocked at the way they game planned for a team they had just lost to a couple of weeks earlier.  

[Haywarduck]

Great ponder point, and it has definitely had me pondering as I showered, left for work, and even as I was working through my early morning appointments. My thinking is the drive many Oregon fans have for an explosive offense and a pedal to the metal attitude comes back to one of, if not the most iconic figure in Oregon sports and the team which followed. 

 

If you watched Steve Prefontaine run it is an attitude and method to how you do things which becomes part of you as an Oregon fan. You attack and leave everything you have on the track, field, playground, or workplace. When we watch, or interact with a situation this mentality permeates everything we do, it is at the cellular level. I know it is for me at least.

 

 

This attitude was then cemented by anyone of that era by the Kamikaze Kids. This play, again, taught one to be relentless, and see no boundaries, just opportunities. The play of that Duck team showed how Oregon sports should be played. A team should go after every situation with passion, effort and savvy, and never hold back. One can now see how many of us older Duck fans had such an adverse reaction to what Mario brought to Oregon.  

 

A great FishDuck article from the archives on The Kamikaze Kids 

The Rise and Fall of the Kamikaze Kids | FishDuck

FISHDUCK.COM

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Following Oregon's disastrous 1971-72 season, Dick Harter was finally able to land his first outstanding recruiting class that included guard Ronnie Lee, guard/

 

 

So basically we may want 80 plays a game, but really we just want all out play, it is just part of who we are as a Fanbase, and  what we should always be as athletic programs at the University of Oregon, always! 

 

 

 

 

[DimpleDucks]

On 5/6/2022 at 11:36 AM, Haywarduck said:

If you watched Steve Prefontaine run it is an attitude and method to how you do things which becomes part of you as an Oregon fan. You attack and leave everything you have on the track, field, playground, or workplace. When we watch, or interact with a situation this mentality permeates everything we do, it is at the cellular level. I know it is for me at least.

 

On 5/6/2022 at 11:36 AM, Haywarduck said:

This attitude was then cemented by anyone of that era by the Kamikaze Kids. This play, again, taught one to be relentless, and see no boundaries, just opportunities. The play of that Duck team showed how Oregon sports should be played. A team should go after every situation with passion, effort and savvy, and never hold back. One can now see how many of us older Duck fans had such an adverse reaction to what Mario brought to Oregon.  

 

Excellent comments, Haywarduck.

Relentless, smart, leave it all on the field, no boundaries just opportunities--all good attitudes for life!

[Haywarduck]

On 5/6/2022 at 11:52 AM, DimpleDucks said:

Excellent comments, Haywarduck.

Relentless, smart, leave it all on the field, no boundaries just opportunities--all good attitudes for life!

I do mean what I wrote, if you watched Pre run live, and also saw the Kamikaze Kids at the time, you were forever changed!

[DimpleDucks]

On 5/6/2022 at 11:55 AM, Haywarduck said:

I do mean what I wrote, if you watched Pre run live, and also saw the Kamikaze Kids at the time, you were forever changed!

I agree with you. They were and still are inspiring.

 

I think a lot of that started at UO with men like Len Casanova and Bill Bowerman and the principles they adhered to while coaching that carried on through life. My dad desperately wanted to play football but was unable to due to having contracted polio at age 14. Still, he was a big Duck Football fan and struck up a relationship with Casanova. He mentored many even though some never played. 

[Haywarduck]

On 5/6/2022 at 12:03 PM, DimpleDucks said:

I agree with you. They were and still are inspiring.

 

I think a lot of that started at UO with men like Len Casanova and Bill Bowerman and the principles they adhered to while coaching that carried on through life. My dad desperately wanted to play football but was unable to due to having contracted polio at age 14. Still, he was a big Duck Football fan and struck up a relationship with Casanova. He mentored many even though some never played. 

Great point, these men brought in like minded young minds and those minds were nurtured into forces of nature. I think the whole background of Oregon Athletics and what make the Athletic Department and Oregon Sports special is a fascinating topic.

 

Agree they were and still are inspiring, as long as the Athletic Department stays true to what made it great. I think we have gotten back to those basic foundational principles with Coach Lanning, finally!

[NJDuck]

On 5/6/2022 at 12:02 PM, Jon Joseph said:

BTW, I'd rather run fewer than 80 plays as the result of 'sudden strike' scores. I see '80 plays' as being far more euphemistic than literal.

I agree.  I believe Dillingham said a pro-style offense that plays fast.  He wants where this offense aims to snap the ball over 80 times per game, but he said he wanted to enhance the amount of opportunities for its playmakers to do just that — make plays.  I think he was also saying they want to be efficient in their plays, getting as many explosives plays as possible, but not necessarily have to get 80 plays off per game to reach the goal of the amount scores they need. 

 

He said.."We want to get people touches. We want to be explosive," he explained. "It’s a system built around our players to create the best matchups and we want to do that at a rapid pace. We want to snap the ball as many times as we can because we want to get those guys as many touches as possible." Versatility, potentially opening the door for a more varied scheme.  

 

With this brand of offense with a DL defense, will be fun to watch!  Go Ducks!!

Edited May 6, 2022 by NJDuck

[Mudslide]

On 5/6/2022 at 10:00 AM, Jon Joseph said:

I want to believe that back in the day I could have scored a date with the red head? But that is no doubt beyond belief.

I saw her once in Oregon.    That drool never did wash out of my shirt.

[Charles Fischer]

On 5/6/2022 at 12:37 PM, NJDuck said:

He said.."We want to get people touches. We want to be explosive," he explained. "It’s a system built around our players to create the best matchups and we want to do that at a rapid pace. We want to snap the ball as many times as we can because we want to get those guys as many touches as possible." Versatility, potentially opening the door for a more varied scheme.  

If....if he actually does it and the HC lets him.  After getting burned with Mari (I don't include it because he doesn't know what to do with the "O") I am more inclined to believe it when I see it.

[JDuck]

Spot on Sir Charles.  How can anyone with a brain roast you for that opinion?  I guess it's like a lot of what we see in the world today, people apparently don't want truth.  As much as I love my Ducks and want to see an exciting offense outscore all opponents on the way to 15-0 this season, we'll see what we see and get what we get.  Hopefully it's 46.7 ppg or more, with a fierce defense.  Nothing wrong with pointing out how the last coach was a flake.

[Duck 1972]

So many different thoughts brought on by all of the different posts. I had my take of the explosive offense as something that occurred at a time  when no one else was doing it. Things changed and pretty soon every one was. But with better players. Then CK left we were ok until Mariota and most of CKs players left. Then we went into a downturn. I don't remember much of the Taggert year but it's stated above lot of points were scored but if I remember correctly we were 7/5. That's not good enough especially after the CK years. 

 

Then MC came said all those words and promises to us. He started recruiting and low and behold he started getting a lot of talent but it was mostly D not O. This is why I believe he became a ball control coach. Especially being a OL himself. And we did win as was stated above his is the 2nd best HC record behind CK. Here comes the rub. It was an excrement type of ball to watch.  I also believe except for maybe Stanford it's not something West Coast players excel at. See what happened at Stanford. They had success for awhile with pound your face ball but now are more air it out to try and compete. This is with B Shaw still as coach. 

 

FB is like any other game. You try something new it works your opponent reacts then u have to change or lose. Back and forth it goes.

 

I truly believe MC thought he was changing the style of CFB back and would be successful. I will also state after this last year his in game coaching, philosophy and personality grind on players and coaches rather than inspiring them causing everyone to burn out.

 

Then after reading Haywards post. I got to say I believe his take on all we need from DL, staff and team is give it your all, walk the walk don't just talk the talk and embrace the ways of CKs teams, Kamakasi Kids and Prefontaine. As Hayward puts it the Oregon Way!!!! Sorry if some of this doesn't make sense or is typed wrong. I'm a pretty tired old greybeard.

 

 

[NJDuck]

On 5/6/2022 at 3:41 PM, Charles Fischer said:

If....if he actually does it and the HC lets him.  After getting burned with Mari (I don't include it because he doesn't know what to do with the "O") I am more inclined to believe it when I see it.

I agree with you about MC saying what he was going to produce on the O side and never did.  I also agree with your article.  As the old saying goes "The proof is in the pudding"  But sure am hoping what they are saying becomes real on the grid iron.

[1Ducker1]

I remember on a few forums being called chicken little because of my opinion on Mari--where's the O? Cristobal. I figured if a football hack like me could identify what the play was then so could a decent coach.

[MaiTaiDuck]

On 5/6/2022 at 2:05 AM, FishDuck Article said:

Some may not like the questions I am asking, but considering what happened before--isn't it reasonable?  I would love your input...

 

Explosion Plays, Fast-Tempo, 80+ Plays...Do You Believe It?

FISHDUCK.COM

---

For many of us fans of the original Oregon Spread Offense under Coaches Mike Bellotti, Chip Kelly and Mark Helfrich, the excitement is palpable about the...

That is unfortunate about people talking smack about your assumptions with regarding Mario's biased hate for throwing the ball down the field. I appreciate your knowledge of the game and would never say anything to the contrary about your obvious knowledge and I'm sure everybody on here does the same. As far as believing Lanning I believe because he planned the D in that Title game that won the game because lets be honest their QB to me never did install to much confidence behind center.

 

So to me it was that Defensive game plan that brought back the Title to Georgia not the offense. So I also believe that Lanning is a whole lot smarter than Mario is to letting his coaches do their magic to their specific specialty because he gets the point that it's all the parts that will make this Ducks team succeed and why wouldn't you want your offense scoring boat loads of points if they are indeed capable of suck success. I believe and thank you Mario for the players he did bring in on offense that obviously weren't being used properly.

 

Also when you recruit top players you need to be true to your word because it wont take long for your word to prove true in the long run. So if Dan the Man does indeed he can bring a Championship to Oregon then he has to bring it on the field to get the best players and the best players want to play with the best opposite them and they want to score points and have that offense " Showcase " their abilities. So I'd believe Mr Lanning Charles because he believe's it.

[Duckhart]

IMO, we could have had a National Championship if Kelly hadn't tried a couple of times (once on 4th and goal  and once with FG) to run his small backs between tackles against Auburn.

Mario and Kelly were both ego driven, Kelly thought he could pound the gut on a SEC team that was built around goal line d. Mario as an offensive lineman wanted to prove he could dominate the line of scrimmage on offense.

 

Dillingham will also have something to prove, and put his signature on the O, and Lanning will want him to keep the defense off the field as much as possible.

Im thinking the offense will be cranked up like we haven't seen in a few years.

 

[Charles Fischer]

On 5/6/2022 at 5:52 PM, Duckhart said:

Dillingham will also have something to prove

You make a good point as Dillingham wants to make his case by scoring, and not by "being tough?"

[CalBear95]

No, 80 plays is utterly unrealistic.  
 

At the same time, I don’t really believe anyone on the staff thinks otherwise.  It is an aspirational metric.  I suspect the true KPI is in the 60s

[Gizmoduck]

Great article Charles, with valid ponder points indeed. Remember coach Lanning said to judge them by what they do, not what they say. From the spring game my eyes told me that they want to be fast but efficient, explosive yet calculated, and overall exciting. None of the coaches strike me as the "Let's do it in the spring, but not in the season" type of guys. So far I believe my eyes, it's just coincidence my ears heard the same thing.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Gizmoduck

[Charles Fischer]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:00 PM, Gizmoduck said:

Remember coach Lanning said to judge them by what they do, not what they say.

GREAT POINT.

 

Now either he is an inexperienced coach who just leaned out too far over this skis, or he will cement the trust of the fans when we see an exciting offense on the field in 2022.

 

I'm hoping for the latter...

[kirklandduck]

I'm not invested in the number of plays per game so much as the scoring average and consistency.  If Dillingham's offense averages 38+ ppg  and doesn't vary too much from game to game in this first season, that's a big step in the right direction.

[Viking Duck]

I enjoyed the article, but I don't think that taking what he's said with at least a grain or two of salt is anything radical to suggest - other than to the most rabid and hopeful fans. I certainly have been that rabid fan from time to time in my life, and I think it's something all of us can relate to!

 

I hope that what he's been saying works out not only in intention and scheme, but also in practice on the field and brings great success. But, there is just no way to know until the season begins and we watch how things develop over the course of this season and the next few.

 

I will admit that privately I have been less enthusiastic than some of the OBD forum commentary, just because I already had that 'talk is cheap, whiskey costs money' attitude from the time he was hired, and I do think that many if not most of us feel somewhat similarly. So far, what I've heard and seen looks positive, and I am very hopeful that it continues as his tenure goes forward. We will see, though.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Viking Duck

[Coach Eric Boles]

I think it’s possible that they reach the goal of 80 plays per game. I definitely think tempo will be a key part of the offense, as it has been stretching back to Gus Malzahn. 
 

I think the important thing is alway efficiency. Does the offense score in 12 plays or 6. If they score, they score. If they play efficiently on offense and they score big points in half the goal plays, I don’t think anyone will care all that much.