Mudslide No. 1 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Pac-12 Reportedly Considering 2 Schools For Expansion WWW.MSN.COM Pac-12 commissioner George Kliavkoff is visiting with SMU on Wednesday, per college football insider Brett McMurphy. SMU and San Diego State are currently the top candidates to join the... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Hilarius Moderator No. 2 Share Posted February 8, 2023 I don’t buy the premise that “the Pac-12 needs to add 2 new members.” A small, private, religious school from Texas will only make the Pac weaker. It doesn’t matter what media market they’re in. Hard no. SDSU actually makes sense to me. A mid-size state school known for partying would fit right in. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 3 Share Posted February 8, 2023 We do not need to add a team (SMU) that has a stadium that holds 32,000 and we have to fly eight hours to play in it? We don’t need another OSU or WSU, at an enormous distance away… Sonny Dykes left SMU and went to TCU because they did not have the support and the upside that the Horned Frogs did. 3 3 1 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyToBeADuck No. 4 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Having just 1 school in Texas join the PAC makes no sense. It is not in the best interest of the student athletes, fans or whoever would be their travel partner. Why does the PAC appear to be so inept at anything pertaining to expansion? If ESPN/ABC want eyeballs then think big and go big. But make the Networks pay for those eyeballs. Consider SMU orTCU (Dallas Fort Worth) Houston (Houston ) UTSA (San Antonio) Texas Tech (West Texas Pan Handle) The Duck-Red Raider game will draw a million plus TV's in Texas. That 4 team pod would have a population base between 15-20 million people. That number is real and a solid bargaining chip. It would give ESPN/ABC viewing content in the midwest time zone to compete with Fox's BIG games. And add additional games for Amazon or ESPN+ to stream. Millions of Texans would watch Houston vs washington or SMU vs Oregon over tOSU vs Wisconsin or Penn State vs ucla. Football is regional and conference driven. That will not change, even with streaming. Texans are not interested in the BIG football conference or losers in the SEC! Texans support winners. If UT and OU don't win SEC titles then Texans will watch the other P5 schools in Texas. Back in the 80's, SMU was must see TV. They were ahead of the NIL curve by 4 decades. The other pods could be: Utah-Colorado-ASU-AU Cal-Stanford-SDSU-Fresno State OU-OSU-WSU-uw 3 time zones, minimized travel, some large viewing potential and large footprints for recruiting in Texas and California. The PAC could consider leading, instead of following. Being the first P5 to break ground with a mix of Network/Streaming is a great first step. It's time for the self proclaimed "Conference of Champions" to make championship decisions. Sorry for the rant........ 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDuck Moderator No. 5 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Pac-12 Football: Schools that make sense for potential expansion DUCKSWIRE.USATODAY.COM A report from @Brett_McMurphy shows George Kliavkoff could be looking to expand the Pac-12. Here are some candidates for potential expansion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDuck No. 6 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Brett McMurphy confidently predicted Oregon was on track to join the B1G. Also last August he proclaimed "The Big ten's not done, I reported back in July, the sources told me they weren't done expanding. I'm still hearing that same information." I expect Kliavkoff to explore all possibilities but SMU is nearly 1,000 miles from the nearest Pac-? member and 1,400 miles from their presumed travel partner San Diego State. It doesn't make logistical sense. How do you play a weekend basketball slate with schools that far apart? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tandaian No. 7 Share Posted February 8, 2023 How does SMU, with undergraduate class of under 7000, have a large alumni base? The TV networks don't only look at the media market, they also look at actual TV numbers. SMU doesn't have the TV numbers. Could they, if they moved up to a P5 conference, I suppose, but can you count on it? I wouldn't count on it. My opinion is bring in only San Diego St. They hardly currently pan out financial wise, but they are close enough to LA and they do seem to want to spend money to be relevant. Move them to the Pac conference and give them 5 years like Utah and I think they will be on par with the rest of the league in football and basketball, which are the sports the TV deals care about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 8 Share Posted February 8, 2023 On 2/8/2023 at 8:05 AM, Tandaian said: How does SMU, with undergraduate class of under 7000, have a large alumni base? The TV networks don't only look at the media market, they also look at actual TV numbers. SMU doesn't have the TV numbers. Could they, if they moved up to a P5 conference, I suppose, but can you count on it? I wouldn't count on it. My opinion is bring in only San Diego St. They hardly currently pan out financial wise, but they are close enough to LA and they do seem to want to spend money to be relevant. Move them to the Pac conference and give them 5 years like Utah and I think they will be on par with the rest of the league in football and basketball, which are the sports the TV deals care about. Like you I am not convinced SMU is a good option for the Pac-12. Sure SMU gets the Pac into Texas but I'm not sure they bring much to the Pac-12 even compared to what other G5 schools that are already in the Pac-12 footprint. I think Utah State or Colorado State could be better options. I think probably the best option is UNLV and maybe even Nevada. But none of those get the Pac into Texas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUCati855 Moderator No. 9 Share Posted February 8, 2023 I'm hoping SMU gets cut as a candidate quickly. I would prefer to add two schools from within the current Pac footprint (west of Denver). To me SDSU and UNLV should be the only schools being considered. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven A Moderator No. 10 Share Posted February 8, 2023 I think we are past, UNFORTUNATELY, looking out for the student in student-athlete. Therefore, a Texas foothold is a plus/must. Now those kids, they grow them big down there, can have games close to their families. This might help the WSUs and OSUs wherein instead of all games several connecting flights away, at least once a year they are home. I think Altman used this in BBall a while back wherein he always tried to have at least a non-conference game close to a recruit's family. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noDucknewby No. 11 Share Posted February 8, 2023 If SMU weren't in the DFW market we wouldn't give them a second glance. I hope market share is not going to be the primary driving force in expansion, but that may just be naive. IMHO we missed the boat on Texas when we didn't go after Houston. At that time we could have possibly pulled TT, TCU and SMU as well. It seems very unlikely to me that could happen now, but I guess you never know. That leaves us with the dregs. Not seeing UTEP or UTSA as very desireable additions. If I'm running the show, Plan A is SDSU and UNLV. Plan B would be locking up the left coast with SDSU and FSU. Keep BSU and UNR on the backburner, they most likely aren't going anywhere if we want to add them later. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fischer Administrator No. 12 Share Posted February 8, 2023 On 2/8/2023 at 8:05 AM, Tandaian said: My opinion is bring in only San Diego St. Agreed. The Big-12 is not 12 teams, and the B-10 is not ten teams. It is trendy to not match your name... Or go UNLV for upside if you must add one. 2 Mr. FishDuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Perkins No. 13 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) We have to accept all current Big 12 members and the 4 newbies are off the table. Not going to happen. I am all for SMU, they actually do have money and wealthy donors. Academically they do fit what Pac-12 presidents are looking for. I loved the old cookie cutter Pac-10 as much as anyone, but those days are over. All other conferences have accepted this and we need to as well. And, they just broke ground, they are injecting the dollars (bringing capacity to 45,000). If they join the Pac that will only increase. Time for the Pac-12 to step up their game, look to the future, or get left in the dust.... Expanding SMU’s Gerald J. Ford Stadium WWW.SMU.EDU The Garry Weber Foundation gives $50 million – the largest gift in the history of SMU Athletics – to create the Garry Weber End Zone Complex. The foundation established by former Mustang football... Edited February 8, 2023 by Darren Perkins 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudslide Author No. 14 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Is there any reason the PAC is not looking at Colorado State? Perfect regional matchup with CU. Excellent academics. Good enrollment levels and is fast growing. Football could be competitive in football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noDucknewby No. 15 Share Posted February 8, 2023 On 2/8/2023 at 12:52 PM, Mudslide said: Is there any reason the PAC is not looking at Colorado State? Perfect regional matchup with CU. Excellent academics. Good enrollment levels and is fast growing. Football could be competitive in football. No new media market. We already have Denver with CU. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 16 Share Posted February 8, 2023 On 2/8/2023 at 12:52 PM, Mudslide said: Is there any reason the PAC is not looking at Colorado State? Perfect regional matchup with CU. Excellent academics. Good enrollment levels and is fast growing. Football could be competitive in football. Maybe not enough upside in terms of television eyeballs? I don't know how Utah State compares in terms of academics but I would imagine they would run into the same problem as they wouldn't expand the Pac-12's footprint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudslide Author No. 17 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) On 2/8/2023 at 1:06 PM, noDucknewby said: No new media market. We already have Denver with CU. Cannot the same be said for UO and Portland? We do okay with OSU added to the mix. And the populations of Portland/Eugene/Corvallis is roughly equal to that of Denver/Boulder/Fort Collins. And CSU, for a few reasons, is certainly a superior addition over SMU. Edited February 8, 2023 by Mudslide Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noDucknewby No. 18 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) On 2/8/2023 at 1:41 PM, Mudslide said: Cannot the same be said for UO and Portland? We do okay with OSU added to the mix. And the populations of Portland/Eugene/Corvallis is roughly equal to that of Denver/Boulder/Fort Collins. And CSU, for a few reasons, is certainly a superior addition over SMU. I'm no media expert to be sure, but they have a certain formula they use to quantify media markets or "eyeballs" if you wish. CU and CSU are both deemed part of the Denver media market so adding CSU wouldn't open up any new media market in their view, although they're also looking for more inventory so it would do that. The populations of Eugene/Corvallis and Boulder/Fort Collins are deemed essentially irrelevant as far as determining the market size. Somebody here can correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read from Canzano and others this is my understanding. Personally I agree that CSU would make more sense from a cultural and geographic fit. Fort Collins is a great college town and their academics certainly are on par with the P12 schools as a whole. But if they're seriously considering SMU it's only for one reason and that's the DFW media market. Amazon/ESPN don't give a rip about cultural fit or the P12 recruiting Texas. Edited February 8, 2023 by noDucknewby 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennsylvania Duck Moderator No. 19 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Pac-12 expansion with San Diego State, SMU may be necessary before league inks new media rights deal The Pac-12 may need to commit to conference expansion first before achieving its compensation target in a new media rights deal, sources with knowledge of the situation tell CBS Sports. In an effort to return to 12 members following the departures of USC and UCLA, the Pac-12 has focused its efforts on evaluating San Diego State and SMU. Pac-12 commissioner Georgia Kliavkoff has already toured San Diego State, CBS Sports previously learned. He is planning to visit SMU on Wednesday, according to Brett McMurphy. Oregon baseball picked to finish fifth in preseason poll; Four Ducks named to preseason All-Pac-12 team 247SPORTS.COM On Wednesday afternoon, the Pac-12 released the conferences preseason coaches poll, with Oregon finishing fifth in the... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 20 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Add SDSU. Fresno. UNLV. SMU. UTSA and Tulane. Block the B12 from garnering any lucrative west coast schools. All of these above 6 can be added for less than a full Pac-10 share. As an example, MW teams are receiving $4M per annum in media revenue. AAC members Tulane, SMU, and soon-to-be UTSA are also receiving far less media-wise than Pac-10 members. The above 6 would bring with them the MW, CUSA, and AAC champs. A huge college sports untapped market in San Antonio that is not watered down by professional competition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2002duck No. 21 Share Posted February 9, 2023 On 2/7/2023 at 9:08 PM, HappyToBeADuck said: Why does the PAC appear to be so inept at anything pertaining to expansion? Your scenarios are predicated on programs like TCU and Texas Tech leaving the BIG 12. Why would they leave the BIG 12, especially if Oregon and Washington are going to bail to the B1G the first chance they get- no matter what GOR penalty they may have to pay? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2002duck No. 22 Share Posted February 9, 2023 On 2/8/2023 at 4:28 PM, Jon Joseph said: SDSU. Fresno. UNLV. SMU. UTSA and Tulane. But those are not lucrative West coast schools. The BIG-12 is just waiting for Oregon and Washington to go to the B1G so that they can get ASU/AZ, Colorado, and Utah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDuck No. 23 Share Posted February 9, 2023 With the advent of a twelve team playoff what is the advantage of a sixteen member league? The argument previously was the championship game was an opportunity to improve your position in the beauty contest administered by the playoff committee. Now, with the potential of an additional four games aren't you better off getting a week of rest? Revenue from a league championship contest is easily offset by playoff payouts. All I see is a lot more mouths to feed and, since being one of sixteen doesn't have as much clout as one of ten, a diminished voice is league decisions. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 24 Share Posted February 9, 2023 On 2/8/2023 at 1:41 PM, Mudslide said: Cannot the same be said for UO and Portland? We do okay with OSU added to the mix. And the populations of Portland/Eugene/Corvallis is roughly equal to that of Denver/Boulder/Fort Collins. And CSU, for a few reasons, is certainly a superior addition over SMU. I don't think it would have mattered in the old way of doing things when it was about regionality and rivalries actually counted for something. Now it is about money and creating the biggest footprint possible to make that money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Marsh No. 25 Share Posted February 9, 2023 On 2/8/2023 at 5:47 PM, McDuck said: With the advent of a twelve team playoff what is the advantage of a sixteen member league? The argument previously was the championship game was an opportunity to improve your position in the beauty contest administered by the playoff committee. Now, with the potential of an additional four games aren't you better off getting a week of rest? Revenue from a league championship contest is easily offset by playoff payouts. All I see is a lot more mouths to feed and, since being one of sixteen doesn't have as much clout as one of ten, a diminished voice is league decisions. That's why the SEC plays an fcs opponent in the back half of the season. It's basically a week's rest but also making sure you still have an extra win... Though it shouldn't count because it's not a worthy opponent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 26 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Slightly OT but with 2 references to Texas Tech, the Ducks' 2nd-week opponent, I thought I'd mention that this will be Tyler Shough's 3rd season as a starter. The Red Raiders are 8-0 when Shough starts and finishes a game. TX Tech smoked Ole Miss in last season's bowl game and is ranked in the top 25 in both the recruiting and transfer portal rankings. This will not be a walk in the park for Oregon. This will not be the day the music died in Lubbock but it could be the day the Ducks 2023 playoff hopes die? On Topic - Once again via inaction the Pac-10 fouled up. The B12 was smart to jump ahead of the Pac-10 to cement its all-linear new media deal. We have heard for months that first, the Pac-10 will complete its new media deal and then expand. This no longer appears to be the case. Will the Pac-10 with a new member or 2 new members equal or exceed the B12 deal of $37M for each B12 team? And once OK, TX departs in 2025 there will be 12 teams. Unless the B12 can with a better media deal convince Pac-10 members to sign up. If the Pac-10 comes close to the B12 media deal and no school Pac-10 school leaves then I expect the B12 to make a big play for SDSU, Fresno, UNLV and possibly, Colorado State or Boise. This would get the B12 and ESPN into the '4th broadcast window.' FOX with one of USC or UCLA playing at home is already in the '4th window.' I fervently hope the Pac-10 can stay together but I have serious doubts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Joseph Moderator No. 27 Share Posted February 9, 2023 On 2/8/2023 at 8:50 PM, David Marsh said: That's why the SEC plays an fcs opponent in the back half of the season. It's basically a week's rest but also making sure you still have an extra win... Though it shouldn't count because it's not a worthy opponent. David, even though the ACC is staying at 8 conference games I do believe come 2025 when Oklahoma and Texas finally join the SEC that the conference will drop divisions and go to a 9 game conference schedule. This means one of the current 4 games against potential donut hole teams will disappear. The SEC schedule with 9 conference games will be more difficult for some SEC teams than others. A number of SEC teams will be playing 10 power 5 games including FL/FSU/ Clemson/USC(e), Kentucky/Louisville, UGA/GA TECH. Even at 8 games I believe the SEC plays a more difficult schedule than does the B1G with its 9 conference games but only 3 teams ranked at the end of 2022. And take a look at Michigan's OOC schedule. For the second year running it's a joke. Ohio State plays at Notre Dame and Michigan gets 3 lollipops at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennsylvania Duck Moderator No. 28 Share Posted February 10, 2023 Pac-12 expansion: Process moves forward with SMU and San Diego State as top targets The university presidents discussed SMU and San Diego State as expansion candidates during a meeting last week and approved commissioner George Kliavkoff taking the next step in the complicated process of adding membership, according to sources with knowledge of the meeting. Sources emphasized that the approval was informal in nature — the presidents did not vote to add specific schools — but expansion is viewed as highly likely. It is not known if other schools were discussed last week during the Pac-12 presidents' quarterly meeting, held at Arizona State. Pac-12 expansion: Process moves forward with SMU and San Diego State as top targets WWW.KSL.COM We rounded up some relevant facts about the top expansion targets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennsylvania Duck Moderator No. 29 Share Posted February 12, 2023 This is a good article from Jon Wilner. He answers questions from readers regarding the Pac-12 targeting SMU and San Diego State. He also touches on the topic of media negotiation. These are all areas OBDF has been discussing. Hotline mailbag: Pac-12 partnerships with Amazon, SMU require same calculation, and more Hotline mailbag: Pac-12 partnerships with Amazon, SMU require same calculation, and more WWW.KSL.COM With Prime Video and the Mustangs, it's all about the late 2020s. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
