Beavers are Over-Valued, Over-Paid, Ungrateful and Unaccountable

[FishDuck Article]

I am sick of the pretentious articles by John Canzano and other writers who portray the Beavers as the aggrieved party in the Pac-12 dissolution, painting them as noble heroes fighting a righteous battle as the little guy against the Genghis horde of ten other Pac-12 programs. It is wrong, and it is emblematic of modern day journalism that presents ...

 

Beavers are Over-Valued, Over-Paid, Ungrateful and Unaccountable

FISHDUCK.COM

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I am sick of the pretentious articles by John Canzano and other writers who portray the Beavers as the aggrieved party in the Pac-12...

[Flyin Vee]

Brutally honest take. Like it or not, the market has spoken. JC is typical victim driven click bate. Pound it to fit and paint it to match.

[criticalduck]

I LOVE it!! I have written that several times in OBD forum. Thank you Charles!!

 

The Beavis had every opportunity in their two best years in 2000 with their Fiesta Bowl and national ranking. Two years where they helped to contribute to the coffers of the Pac. USC, UW, UCLA, even new member Utah, and of course OBD have continually subsidized their mediocrity so they can invest in baseball (no market value).

 

It was said on CBS news yesterday morning the two sports that make money for every scook are: football and men's basketball. OBD have put in the effort for the Pac. So I say good riddance to the mismanaged conference!

 

And as many of you know the Beavis is also one of four schools that had overriding powers to hire: Lounge Suit Lawrence Scott. Thanks again the Beavis for breaking the Pac. Eat the pie that you had a hand in making!!

 

Let's go UW lawyers! Get the money that the schools that are leaving deserve! They can have the revenue they generate in 2024...

[HappyToBeADuck]

Charles I am not sure where to start in response to your article except to state; well thought out, written and presented.

 

As Flying Vee stated "Brutally honest take"......

 

I look forward to the Forums take on this article.

 

So much is packed into your article but i will address media market value only. Unpacking and unraveling the PAC decisions by any school would take years. The free market spoke and numbers dont lie.

 

USC and to some extent, UCLA, support your line of thinking on market value. The SoCal duo would have brought $200 million plus in media revenue into the coffers. The other 10 schools $300 million, annually.

 

$100 million each vs $30 million each.  Would you sell your home for $30 million when the market would pay $100 million?

 

The SoCal schools asked to be compensated with uneven revenue shares. None of the 10 schools had any problem getting that extra $20 million each from the SoCal duos media market value. Hec Beavers were probably first in line.

 

The entire conference had no problem taking money they didnt earn. Not just the poor little beavers.

 

USC asked for a larger share over the years but LS said No......

 

The SoCal duo took their media value to market and Fox and the BIG were waiting with open arms. And the check book. They understood SoCals immediate and long term value.....

 

The PAC took that value for granted.

 

The sense of entitlement by the 10 was just as responsible as greed for the PAC 12 demise.

 

Now, media market value is dictating what OSU and WSU are worth. Its not much......

 

So both schools want what they did not earn. They are entitled to nothing more than their share.

 

Of course all the schools in the PAC want their fair share, now. They just weren't willing to give usc and ucla their's.

 

But its not just the Beavers, Cougars or all the PAC schools doing this. The BIG is not giving the Ducks and huskies equal shares. Stanford and Cal get nothing from the ACC.

 

And the biggest culprits, the media partners have coughed up very little in the short term.

 

You get what you are worth! That is no ones fault but your own......

[Smith72]

I totally agree with your article Charles.  When you said,

"...the Beavis is also one of four schools that had overriding powers to hire: Lounge Suit Lawrence Scott."

 

I thought OSU President Ray was "champagne" Larry's biggest enabler.  The extravagant moves by commissioner Scott the beginning of the end of the Pac-12.  

 

[DC Featherbutt]

“Don’t even go the Phil Knight direction; he did not help until Oregon went to the Rose Bowl, and Cotton Bowl first without him.”

I rarely comment on articles written/posted here.  But I will now. 
 

Bravo X 10.

 

that is all

[Log Haulin]

To the victor... I mean the victim go the spoils. It's the American way.

[Haywarduck]

I am not a socialist, but when you make more you pay more, in order to be part of a civilized society. When you have selfish members of society shirking their responsibilities the civilized part of the society goes away. 

 

The problem with what the LA schools did was they tried to escape something they felt was unfair, while destroying something that was beautiful. Much like those who wanted to develop Yosemite, or cut all the sequoias. At some point you have to do what is right for the greater good, or your left with stumps.

 

I get how the beavs have been a bungling brother, who are now getting to learn their true value. They don't deserve what they have been getting, but they were part of something that benefited all.

 

They are just collateral damage of the spoiled, selfish society we live in, led by those to our south. 

 

As Charles stated, I wasn't, and am not thrilled with the move to the BIG. I am also not happy with the destruction of the Conference of Champions.

 

Great article and some prescient points, but I am looking back I just want what we had. Maybe that is naive, but sometimes you have to give a little, instead of just taking. As usual I am taking just a little different perspective on a tough subject.

[Steven A]

Non equal revenue share is the reason Texas didn't join the help make the Pac 16 during Larry's honeymoon.

 

And had that been allowed then, we may have had 16 different shares and survived.

[Charles Fischer]

I understand how some here wish to equate the Beavers being overpaid the same as Oregon compared to the LA schools. To me, that is a diversion for talking points, but does not address the serious issue taking place…

 

The PAC-2 are dead set on stealing 400 million from 10 schools, and nobody is calling this theft for what it is. Nobody in the media is addressing the true value of OSU and WSU.

 

A discussion of what the LA schools wanted—is simply a pivot away from current reality, and feeds right into the Canzano strategy of distracting you, and making you feel sorry for the PAC-2 without looking at how they are trying to flat-out steal Oregon’s rightful share that was earned.

 

I hope the PAC-12 attorneys stay on point, and do not be so easily diverted.

[Chas Man]

On 11/20/2023 at 7:25 AM, Charles Fischer said:

I understand how some here wish to equate the Beavers being overpaid the same as Oregon compared to the LA schools. To me, that is a diversion for talking points, but does not address the serious issue taking place…

 

The PAC-2 are dead set on stealing 400 million from 10 schools, and nobody is calling this theft for what it is. Nobody in the media is addressing the true value of OSU and WSU.

 

A discussion of what the LA schools wanted—is simply a pivot away from current reality, and feeds right into the Canzano strategy of distracting you, and making you feel sorry for the PAC-2 without looking at how they are trying to flat-out steal Oregon’s rightful share that was earned.

 

I hope the PAC-12 attorneys stay on point, and do not be so easily diverted.

Agreed. When people don’t like or agree with the simple interpretation of the facts (2 schools trying to steal $400 million that doesn’t belong to them) they resort to emotionally driven smokescreens and unrelated rationale.

To quote one who speaks more rationally, “Stay on point and do not be so easily diverted.”

 

And, a quote from my favorite shrink: 

 

“Reality is your friend” Dr Henry Cloud

[Just Ducky]

 I too am sorry the pack is gone. It is sad that money is the main, and maybe the only, reason.

 

 We’ve discussed many times on this forum on how the pack could have been saved with no clear answer. 
 

 In 3 years we will probably be discussing how we can put the pack back together because this jump will not result in immediate success, possibly none, on the field. Our strike zone will be way smaller than the blue bloods of OSU, Mich, Penn State, and the rest that are already entrenched.

 

John has always been a beaver and will be in the future.

 

 It is what it is.

 

 I have never been a fan of his and don’t read his rubbish.

[Log Haulin]

The destruction of the Pac-12 and the theft of $400m stands alone. It has nothing to do with logging and the men who risk their lives every day to do it for the greater good of society.

 

An industry that provides thousands of living wage jobs. An industry that generates billions for the communities across this country we all call home. And an industry that shows tremendous restraint and responsibility to our land. Truly the greenest industry on the planet with millions of trees planted every year.

 

Not every man comes from a place where he is afforded a college education to increase his value to society and an ability to earn at a high level.

 

Logging is one of those industries that provides exactly that for these men at a tremendous risk to life and limb. Not many options for the less privileged to earn a six figure income.

 

Equating the two situations as equal is misguided in my opinion. I know a lot of folks have strong feelings about both subjects. And thats a good thing. People should be engaged in both subjects.

 

For someone less privledged with a good childhood and strong family resulting in loss of opportunity, this is an industry that keeps them out of poverty and provides a strong future.

 

You will be hard pressed to find any logger whining or playing a victim to their circumstance. Just a bunch of hard working dudes trying to do right in the world with the cards they were delt.

 

If we are going to equate the two. Seems to me that it's the university types, the college boys that are doing the theft and destruction in this comparison. 

 

[HappyToBeADuck]

IMHO ,the academic PAC leadership brought this ALL upon themselves. One bad decision after another that LS continued in spades.

 

The PAC simply destroyed itself.

 

They all had a higher opinion of themselves and placed a dollar value upon that opinion.

 

The market value together was greater than standing piecemeal or alone.

 

They all know what they are worth now.......

 

My problem is OSU/WSU actions. Those 2 have their rights to control the PAC going forward and exercising them according to the by laws.

 

But to say, you did this to us, you hurt us so we get to hurt you back.

 

No..........

 

My children would often try to justify their bad actions. Well he did this to me ao i did that to him. Sounded good but was not justified.

 

OSU/WSU have no right to anyone elses portion of the shared revenue.

 

Its called stealing........

[woundedknees]

I worked in a production facility for 20+ years, and was massively under compensated for more than half that time.

 

I was personally producing 60+% of the daily output of the 16 man department I was associated with.

Most of the disparity was created by the fact that there was no incentive for the rest of the crew to perform at a higher level, both quantity and quality wise. 

 

When management finally listened and established a profit sharing program related to those two characteristics, I was asked to be the crew foreman.

I was able to show the other employees how to use that as incentive  to significantly improve their position.

 

The problem was, other departments failed to take advantage of that opportunity, and began to whine about having to work overtime to keep up with my team.

 

Management's solution was to decide that since we unfairly took advantage of the situation, the program was canceled, and everyone fell back into mediocrity.

 

I found someplace else to pursue my family's financial security!

Sounds similar to the PAC's fate, in some ways...

[Augduck]

Not to hijack this  thread and the excellent article by Charles as well as this great discussion in any way ,but JC loves to position himself as a man of the people.   He loves the OS  (poor us) narrative because he feels like he is advocating for the 'common man'.   John has never gotten over the fact that Chip Kelly publicly called him out when the Willy Lyles stuff was going on .  

 

John is in the entertainment business and he knows it.  The OS narrative fits him perfectly.  I find him amusing to observe.  He has certainly tried to ingratiate himself with Dan and does his best to come off like he is one of Dan's confidantes.  He is not.   

 

 

[Jon Joseph]

Charles, Spot On! Thank you for exposing the 'little guy' charade and today's society and journalism in general. "It wasn't my fault. Some other dudes did it."

 

Dam the Beavers and the snarky legal loop-holing in an attempt to 'extort' more money from teams that did the heavy lifting over the last decade, primarily, Oregon.

 

1 CBB run for the Beavers. No CFB playoff appearences or NY 6 bowl games. A stadium down-sizing. 2 years in a row without a P5 OOC opponent. 

 

I hope Oregon smacks the one-demensional Beavers team come Friday. And I also hope that Oregon will not go out of its way to make the Civil War happen again. The Pac-2 according to the OSU AD 'has a plan.' According to Baghdad Bob, so did Saddam. 

 

Not only have Canzano's articles been over the top, the Beaver fans comments have been way over the top. Oregon doing what it had to do for its fans and the brand was 'immoral' according to many OSU fans. OK, but using a cheap lawyer trick to steal money you did not earn is completely kosher, right?

 

The Pac-12 imploded due to one terrible business decision after another over the last decade. I'm reasonably certain that OSU and WSU representatives were present at the scene of the crimes. 

 

GO DUCKS! DAM THE BEAVERS! And shut off the scheduling pipeline which will only put more money in the Beavers grubby claws.

[Jon Joseph]

On 11/20/2023 at 11:37 AM, Just Ducky said:

 I too am sorry the pack is gone. It is sad that money is the main, and maybe the only, reason.

 

 We’ve discussed many times on this forum on how the pack could have been saved with no clear answer. 
 

 In 3 years we will probably be discussing how we can put the pack back together because this jump will not result in immediate success, possibly none, on the field. Our strike zone will be way smaller than the blue bloods of OSU, Mich, Penn State, and the rest that are already entrenched.

 

John has always been a beaver and will be in the future.

 

 It is what it is.

 

 I have never been a fan of his and don’t read his rubbish.

Great take but Puddles is going B1G and there is no way or any incentive for Oregon to put the Pac (RIP) back together.

 

It's a Power 2 world and Puddles is living in it.

 

As to competition? Have you watched any B1G football this season. It's Ohio State, Michigan, and 2 O-challenged teams in PSU and Iowa. And no CBB titles since 2001. Volleyball and soccer are very good but baseball, T+fricken, and the other sports?

 

Oregon is moving into a world with more money and overall will not be facing better competition than it did in the Pac-12. 

[Haywarduck]

We live in a capitalistic society, I have no problem with that, and enjoy the fruits of the system. I was just pointing out how that system can backfire, and those situations are unfortunate. Agree with Log H the timber industry is one of the great successes of the west.

 

One can criticize my connection to Yosemite, but that is how I look at what the Pac-12 was, an amazing conference, and a group of spoiled, shortsighted morons ruined. I see some of that same group coming to my community and having the same type of impact.

 

We also live in a system ruled by a judicial process, that is a whole different topic. I also have no problem with that, actually grateful for it, and if the beavs and cougs win when the laws are ruled on then so be it.

 

I think the problem is when we don't fully understand the process, and don't accept the outcomes. I can accept the outcomes, I just don't have to respect those who make the decisions, but the process is complex, messy and open to criticism.

[Jon Joseph]

Steven A., and when Larry added CU and Utah to save face from being stiff armed by Texas he ended USC's premium share deal. One of Larry's many stupid decisions faciltated by a 'board of directors' who could not be voted out by shareholders a/k/a fans. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Jon Joseph

[Jon Joseph]

On 11/20/2023 at 8:15 AM, HappyToBeADuck said:

Charles I am not sure where to start in response to your article except to state; well thought out, written and presented.

 

As Flying Vee stated "Brutally honest take"......

 

I look forward to the Forums take on this article.

 

So much is packed into your article but i will address media market value only. Unpacking and unraveling the PAC decisions by any school would take years. The free market spoke and numbers dont lie.

 

USC and to some extent, UCLA, support your line of thinking on market value. The SoCal duo would have brought $200 million plus in media revenue into the coffers. The other 10 schools $300 million, annually.

 

$100 million each vs $30 million each.  Would you sell your home for $30 million when the market would pay $100 million?

 

The SoCal schools asked to be compensated with uneven revenue shares. None of the 10 schools had any problem getting that extra $20 million each from the SoCal duos media market value. Hec Beavers were probably first in line.

 

The entire conference had no problem taking money they didnt earn. Not just the poor little beavers.

 

USC asked for a larger share over the years but LS said No......

 

The SoCal duo took their media value to market and Fox and the BIG were waiting with open arms. And the check book. They understood SoCals immediate and long term value.....

 

The PAC took that value for granted.

 

The sense of entitlement by the 10 was just as responsible as greed for the PAC 12 demise.

 

Now, media market value is dictating what OSU and WSU are worth. Its not much......

 

So both schools want what they did not earn. They are entitled to nothing more than their share.

 

Of course all the schools in the PAC want their fair share, now. They just weren't willing to give usc and ucla their's.

 

But its not just the Beavers, Cougars or all the PAC schools doing this. The BIG is not giving the Ducks and huskies equal shares. Stanford and Cal get nothing from the ACC.

 

And the biggest culprits, the media partners have coughed up very little in the short term.

 

You get what you are worth! That is no ones fault but your own......

Oregon and UW will be full partners when the next media deal comes about in 6 years. Nebraska, Maryland, and Rutgers also tokk a haircut early on when they joined the B1G.

 

And the current Oregon and UW haircuts were administered by Fox, CBS, and NBC, and not the B1G.

[HDuck]

On the subject of positioning oneself, I will point to two nuggets in history, and the folks who share their opinions here could probably post dozens more to back up your assertions Charles.

 

1)  Oregon AD Bill Byrne who imagined an Oregon that most fans thought would be impossible.  Then, he acted on it.  And, the Oregon donor base grew exponentially even before Knight started frosting the cake.

 

2)  A series of poor coaching choices by Oregon State:  Jim Anderson for too long, Eddie Payne, Ritchie McKay, Jay John...squandering what was a strong, deep, Beavers fans support for one of the two revenue generators for OSU.  OSU basically owned Portland and they squandered it.

 

Craig Fertig, Joe Avezzano, Dave Kragthorpe, Jerry Pettibone...then when they got it right with Erickson and Riley, they hired Andersen.

 

The decisions of an OSU AD over the years have cost OSU dearly.   These are self-inflicted deep wounds that were bandaged with conference money flowing into Corvallis from the association with USC, UCLA, UW and later UO.

 

OSU should take pride in what it is to be a Beaver fan.  The blueprint was available from schools across the nation if they had paid attention...not just fellow Pac8/10/12 schools.   But, some self-reflection instead of pride is needed.   The baseball program has also been a blueprint and for some reason widely ignored within the AD offices in Corvallis.

[Charles Fischer]

On 11/20/2023 at 9:31 AM, Augduck said:

Not to hijack this  thread and the excellent article by Charles as well as this great discussion in any way ,but JC loves to position himself as a man of the people.   He loves the OS  (poor us) narrative because he feels like he is advocating for the 'common man'.   John has never gotten over the fact that Chip Kelly publicly called him out when the Willy Lyles stuff was going on .  

 

John is in the entertainment business and he knows it.  The OS narrative fits him perfectly.  I find him amusing to observe.  He has certainly tried to ingratiate himself with Dan and does his best to come off like he is one of Dan's confidantes.  He is not.   

I like a lot of his reporting and writing, but the other side of him is what you and I have described.  But he is very clever at pulling people away from the real issue, by bringing emotional elements into it.

[Log Haulin]

Zano, imo, has never been an serious journalist. He has always ventured into emotions and stirring it up to get his clicks.

 

I do credit him, it works for him and he has made a pretty good living off of it. But it's only value is for enyertainment. I don't really take him seriously.

 

I come to OBDF for entertainment and to be educated on the Ducks and football in general. A lot of smart fans here.

 

I use a ton of emotion when I comment on this forum. I try to be honest but sometimes I am ill-informed. I lack some of the intellectual capitol many on here possess. Like anyone else, I want to be relevant so it works for me. 

 

But I don't think Zano is honest when he spins his tales. Thats why I don't pay attention to him. He is irrelevant to me because I view him as dishonest. 

 

Beavs have only themselves to blame. They have had a few decades to get it right, they have chosen not to. Heck, even PK has tried to help.

 

Now they want the rest of the pac to subsidize their miserable athletic department. The ship has sailed, all stowaways will walk the plank. 

 

Sorry Beavus but like I often say "My life is nobody elses fault". Got news for you, neither is yours. So quit blaming others,  find your part, fix it and join the rest of us after you get that done. Until then, pound sand.

[JDuck]

Bravo Charles.

 

If OSU/WSU get the $400M, it'll subsidize them for 7 years at what a $30M payout would have been, plus whatever they get from the Mountain West or wherever they end up.  It is robbery.  My degree at UO was in Economics, and leaning a lot more towards free market and supply side than perhaps many of my professors did, I understand the real value as discussed here.

 

OSU has 4 titles all time, track in '61, and the 3 recent baseball championships.

WSU, 2:  Indoor track in '77, boxing in 1937.  (That's right!)

 

Oregon:  34.  I hope we crush them Friday in the last Civil War as we know it.

[KCDuck1]

On 11/20/2023 at 9:25 AM, Charles Fischer said:

I hope the PAC-12 attorneys stay on point, and do not be so easily diverted.

Mr. Fishduck, Sir, Charles, A U.S. Army Chief of Staff titled his memoirs, "Hope is not a Method". The hope to which you have referred is based on the integrity and determination of the current PAC-12 Commissioner to do the right thing [for all].

 

We cannot put aside that said Commissionar chose not to do the right thing by telling all the PAC-12 members that he had a "Media" plan and offer, but would not discuss it at the conferences' Media Day meetings and interviews; U of Colorado had regardless requested that information be made available to them on that day.

 

Essentially, the Commissioner works for the universities (Presidents & Athletic Directors) that comprise the PAC-12 (if I understand the employer-employee relationship accurately). Therefore, Mr. Kliavkoff owed U of Colorado Reps that information regardless of the method he chose to share it. Unfortunately, the Commissioner lied; he did not have the information, and he did not have a plan.

 

The bottomline is cautionary: be careful when relying on the PAC-12 attorneys to "stay on point". I believe we are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars. The two universities (the PAC-2) may subscribe to the saying, "Go big, or go home."

 

BTW, if I have misstated anything above or inadvertently maligned anyone or any institution, those mistakes are mine, and I apologize in advance, and I welcome external editing. These are delicate and precise subjects. I have tried not to conflate this topic with political religions and humanism, and while I admit I am no damned good, I am a Fightin' Duck through and through.

 

VR,

KCDuck1

[Augduck]

Actually there is a book by Rick Page entitled Hope Is Not A Strategy which focuses on sales (my line of work) that is really well written. 

 

IMHO hope is what OS has relied on for too long and it has come back to bite them in the proverbial rear end.

 

One thing I find interesting in talking with some OS comrades is their hesitancy in acknowledging that Phil has helped them immensely.  It's almost like they are embarrassed to admit they had to get help from the DUCKS.  They gladly take the help ($$$$$$) but don't want to tell anyone.

[noDucknewby]

FWIW-

 

Sir Charles you're quite entertaining when you have your knickers in a knot about something. 

 

Beavs and Wazzu are in a tough spot, I get it, but in case they haven't figured it out it's every man for himself in this current realignment.  I hate having the networks control the direction of college football with their divide and conquer strategy, but it's adapt or die and for now that's just how it is.  The market has indeed spoken.

 

It is reasonable for OSU/WSU to control the direction of the conference, they're the last ones standing (or left out, however you want to look at it).  The then-remaining 10 did the same when they boxed the LA schools out of the board meetings.  What is not reasonable is trying to abscond with the earnings of all 12 schools while they are still active members.  That money has already been earned by the entire conference and each school still deserves their full share, even the traitorous LA schools.

 

A bit of irony here, we're using the same argument against OSU/WSU that the Spoiled Children used against us in that our media brand is propping up the conference and it's bottom tier.  As much as I hate the condoms and their entitled fan base, they did make a fair point here (we found out when we could only get $25 million/year without them).  Touche, I guess the shoe's on the other foot now, but I'll always hate the way they burned it all down on their way out the door.

 

 

[Charles Fischer]

On 11/20/2023 at 12:10 PM, noDucknewby said:

Sir Charles you're quite entertaining when you have your knickers in a knot about something.

When it involves Our Beloved Ducks....I can get passionate.  I have been waiting for other journalists to call out the lies, and deception.  So I thought that Civil War Week was a good time for this...

 

On 11/20/2023 at 12:10 PM, noDucknewby said:

A bit of irony here, we're using the same argument against OSU/WSU that the Spoiled Children used against us in that our media brand is propping up the conference and it's bottom tier.  As much as I hate the condoms and their entitled fan base, they did make a fair point here (we found out when we could only get $25 million/year without them).  Touche, I guess the shoe's on the other foot now, but I'll always hate the way they burned it all down on their way out the door.

Yes, but this the biggest attempted theft in NCAA history, and I think people need to take it serious and not get sidetracked thinking about two years ago.  We are talking about 35 million to Our Beloved Ducks, and a ton more over ensuing years.  Nobody else is calling this what it really is...

 

[Drake]

Benny’s kids have found out they were too slow to grab a chair when the music stopped. The rodents applaud themselves as the “little engine that could”, but that folktale teaches kids that optimism AND hard work can pay off. 
 

They are laughably optimistic, but reality has punched them squarely in the face regarding how others perceive their overall worth. 

 

Their hopes rest on the abilities of attorneys stealing $$$$ from schools that propped them up for years. I don’t know how that will end, but in the world of right and wrong…it still theft at its highest level.

 

[Steven A]

On 11/20/2023 at 7:25 AM, Charles Fischer said:

The PAC-2 are dead set on stealing 400 million from 10 schools

Perhaps I missed it, have the Pac 2 come out and stated that with control, they plan on keeping the entire 400 Mil?

 

If so, then they will be tied up in Court until the next media deal.

 

Therefore, I think there will be a settlement.  And the definition of a settlement/compromise is an agreement in which both sides are unhappy.

[Desert Duck]

'your value is at the Mountain-West Conference level.'

 

The truth can be both awesome, and brutal, at times.

 

This is one of those times. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Desert Duck

[Just Ducky]

 And let us not forget that the attorneys will get a nice pay check at the end of this thing no matter what the outcome. 
 

 The longer it takes to settle the more money they will take in the process.

 

 Hope they settle this soon but I doubt it.

[Dr Hilarius]

I understand why we hate Canzano and his framing of the story, but the PAC-2 aren’t the villains here.

 

The PAC-2 are the only remaining voting members of the league. The other schools lost their voting rights as soon as they declared they were leaving. End of story.

 

The PAC-2 have the contractual authority to do whatever they want with the league’s assets.

 

This isn’t stealing—it’s the result of a contract that everyone agreed to.

 

If the other 10 members wanted to have a say in the remaining assets, they should have changed the rules before bailing.

 

It’s not the PAC-2’s fault if the other schools didn’t understand the consequences.

 

The PAC-2’s assets are a parting gift.

 

As an aside, my grandfather was once the owner of the largest construction company in Canada. When he went to retire, he sold his company to one of his board members.

 

But before the sale went through, the board member held a vote to make my grandfather’s shares worthless. It worked. My grandfather lost everything. 

 

As depressing as it may seem, dem’s da rulez.

[OceaniaDuck]

Seems to me like the legal counsels at the 10 departing PAC-12 schools were either asleep at the wheel or otherwise were not consulted before the respective institutions bolted.

[Charles Fischer]

On 11/20/2023 at 5:16 PM, Dr Hilarius said:

As depressing as it may seem, dem’s da rulez.

I disagree.  They are overpaid millions for decades, and now this?

 

[Dr Hilarius]

On 11/20/2023 at 6:13 PM, Charles Fischer said:

They are overpaid millions for decades, and now this?

You aren’t wrong.

 

But the 10 “bailers” were asleep at the wheel.

 

As someone who has gone through a divorce, I appreciate “cutting our losses” and extricating ourselves gracefully from the relationship.

[DC Featherbutt]

On 11/20/2023 at 3:20 PM, Desert Duck said:

your value is at the Mountain-West Conference level.'

 

The truth can be both awesome, and brutal, at times.

 

This is one of those times. 

You forgot FUNNY.

[Drake]

On 11/20/2023 at 5:20 PM, OceaniaDuck said:

Seems to me like the legal counsels at the 10 departing PAC-12 schools were either asleep at the wheel or otherwise were not consulted before the respective institutions bolted.

There literally was not time to advise anything different. Delaying Oregon’s move to the BIG was not going to be held up by legal counsel wanting time to review all exposure to risk. 
 

OSU and WSU were simply granted voting rights control of the conference assets and liabilities. Any vote to keep all media monies earned by the conference for themselves will be challenged in court. 
 

OSU and WSU are hoping for favorable court rulings to soften the catastrophic reduction of media income they will receive.

 

Oregon on the other hand could take a short term hit, but recover quickly. I like our position much better. 

[GatOrlando]

One thing people fail to bring up when referencing Phil Knight being the primary reason Oregon has risen, while Oregon State hasn't. Why have programs like Maryland with Under Armour founder and booster Kevin Plank, or Oklahoma State with Boone Pickens not elevated themselves past second tier? Yes big money has helped Oregon, flashy facilities, uniforms, and now NIL. But as Charles wrote without Oregon making the right hires, none of that would matter.

 

Oregon State has been good the last two years. People have been saying how deserving they are of being in a power league. Why are they entitled to that with zero titles of any sort? Did anybody cry for Cincinnati when the Big East folded? They were coming off two straight conference titles, and almost making the BCS title game in '09. But they were pushed down, to their credit they continued to invest in their program with stadium upgrades. Hiring the right guy, and they did all this without any payout from the Big East. They stepped up, and made themselves a Big 12 member. 

 

I'm in the minority when I say Oregon State and Washington State have no claim to the entire PAC-12 remaining equity. They sure as heck didn't do anything to make the league better, thus making it more money. I felt bad for them earlier, mostly their fans. But now I'm just ready to move on. Their relevance is fading quickly, three years from now they will be forgotten.

 

It's their job now to do what Cincy did. Make yourself an attractive option if a better league is looking to expand again. Get your boosters, alumni, and fans to make Oregon State relevant. Pay to keep Smith, continue to invest into your program. Yes the monetary windfall is going to shrink, but overcome it. If you're worthy of being in a power league, PROVE IT!

 

Until then, to quote Willie Wonka in regards to your claims of being owed power league money. " YOU GET NOTHING!!! YOU LOSE!! GOOD DAY!!".

[Sunshine Larry]

This is a sports oriented conversation, but simple economics are at play here. Football is an expensive sport. Go online and try to buy an authentic helmet, Jersey, cleats, and pads. Multiply that times eighty(practice squad guys included)  Big time programs get that aspect covered in return for marketing. Add travel costs, assistant coach salaries, trainers, facility upkeep, medical care. You can't have everybody being equal. You need the powerhouses, middle pack, and scrubs. Otherwise it would be impossible to have a playoff.

 

The rich bring in more, they pay more taxes. The poor often work in companies ran by the rich. The rich need the cheap labor, the poor need the money. An economy depends on a middle class to purchase extra things. So the cog machine needs the powers, but also the lower level players. The middle keeps the whole thing centered. In sports it isn't unreasonable for all programs in a well run league to expect fair returns. The SEC and Big Ten are well run. South Carolina and Vanderbilt make just as much as Alabama and Georgia. Purdue and Northwestern make as much as Ohio State and Michigan.

 

USC and UCLA bring value that Maryland, Rutgers, and Nebraska didn't. Those three are just starting to get full shares. Oregon and Washington will get ever increasing shares leading up to the next deal.

 

The Big 12 gave Texas everything, they still bolted. The Longhorn Network lost ten million dollars a year. Texas got to pull those losses from the Big 12 coffers. But in reality they deserved more.

 

The Pac 12 lost USC primarily because the Pac 12 was run like a Socialist party. Larry Scott was overspending on fruitless endeavors, meanwhile making 5 million a year. USC bolted. Oregon accepted a reduced share due to knowing it's new home would net them more down the road. It's a well run business model. Who cares if they have to swallow a little pride in saying USC was worth more. Thirty percent of a much bigger pie is still bigger than fifty percent of a much smaller one.

 

Oregon was self aware. Oregon State is the lazy fat dude who thinks he deserves a model wife, and just as much money as his brother with a PHD.

[Jemangi]

I blocked JC on my twitter a few days ago.  Just could not his attitude any longer. Wish him well, sure he is a good family man.

But, I am done listening to his bs. Go ducks!  U of O did what they needed to do!

[The Grateful Duck]

I'm probably more sympathetic to the Beavers/Cougars than many on this forum, at least from the responses I read. It's a damn shame in some respects. That being said, I'm not very sympathetic to some Beaver/Cougar fans' responses to the situation, especially blaming the Ducks and Huskies for leaving the Pac and moving to the B1G. I'm certain had the situation been different, those 2 schools would have chosen to leave also. But the reality is, their brands are just not as valuable. It hurts to be told an unwelcome truth. It's obvious that the O brand is recognized in all 50 states, especially, but not limited to, the football program. (Hey, Sabrina's a pretty big deal in basketball and for many young female ballers!) There's a reason that Oregon football games have been featured on several important timeslots during the season, with many millions of eyes followed. 

 

One thing I'd like to add to this discussion is the fact that, yes, OSU and WSU did win the first iteration of this court battle, but the judge did reiterate that the agreement/bylaws upon which the judge made his ruling does not give those 2 schools free rein to spend all/most of the money on their own programs. The judge stressed that the moneys should be shared equitably amongst the remaining members (I believe minus USC and UCLA, and perhaps also Colorado) and he would change his decision if the 2-pac were not to oblige the other remaining members, 9 or 10, their shares in an equitable, fair manner. Folks much more knowledgeable on these legal matters than I expect this judgement to lead to a fair settlement between the parties at some future date. There's also some shared debt amongst all the members, its repayment has yet to be decided from where/what coffers this money will come. This issue is far from settled....

 

Also, and finally, historically USC HAS been the cash cow for the various iterations of our conference. At various times in the past, they had requested extra funding to compensate for the extra value they provided. Obviously, fellow members did not agree to that and that refusal to acknowledge USC's contribution was an important element to SC leaving. A perfect storm of opportunity, jealousy, system-wide leadership failure, hubris, and mismanagement by all parties led us to this point. This divorce/collapse is way more complicated than anything John C has yet to acknowledge or cover in anything but a cursory, click-bait, self-important manner. He is in the business to make money to support his family and life style. It is the American way, right? 

Edited November 21, 2023 by The Grateful Duck

[TheRunningDuck]

On 11/20/2023 at 5:15 AM, HappyToBeADuck said:

Charles I am not sure where to start in response to your article except to state; well thought out, written and presented.

 

As Flying Vee stated "Brutally honest take"......

 

I look forward to the Forums take on this article.

 

So much is packed into your article but i will address media market value only. Unpacking and unraveling the PAC decisions by any school would take years. The free market spoke and numbers dont lie.

 

USC and to some extent, UCLA, support your line of thinking on market value. The SoCal duo would have brought $200 million plus in media revenue into the coffers. The other 10 schools $300 million, annually.

 

$100 million each vs $30 million each.  Would you sell your home for $30 million when the market would pay $100 million?

 

The SoCal schools asked to be compensated with uneven revenue shares. None of the 10 schools had any problem getting that extra $20 million each from the SoCal duos media market value. Hec Beavers were probably first in line.

 

The entire conference had no problem taking money they didnt earn. Not just the poor little beavers.

 

USC asked for a larger share over the years but LS said No......

 

The SoCal duo took their media value to market and Fox and the BIG were waiting with open arms. And the check book. They understood SoCals immediate and long term value.....

 

The PAC took that value for granted.

 

The sense of entitlement by the 10 was just as responsible as greed for the PAC 12 demise.

 

Now, media market value is dictating what OSU and WSU are worth. Its not much......

 

So both schools want what they did not earn. They are entitled to nothing more than their share.

 

Of course all the schools in the PAC want their fair share, now. They just weren't willing to give usc and ucla their's.

 

But its not just the Beavers, Cougars or all the PAC schools doing this. The BIG is not giving the Ducks and huskies equal shares. Stanford and Cal get nothing from the ACC.

 

And the biggest culprits, the media partners have coughed up very little in the short term.

 

You get what you are worth! That is no ones fault but your own......

But, Chainsaws...

[FG Lumber]

Brooks went to Oregon in 1977.  Was hired after Don Read's tenure

[FG Lumber]

But I really enjoyed your angst.  Right on

[Charles Fischer]

What has been interesting is the massive readership of that article, and the "hate" emails I've received.  You would think that if they were actually going to write me personally that they would have their Ducks lined up?

 

Nope.  They are idiots, who, in a few cases had not even read the article.  (You can tell by banal nonsense they spout that was already well covered in the article)

 

But they are Beavers...

 

[Brian]

Thank you Charles, this might be your best article yet!  And that's saying a lot, because you've had so many.

 

I'm a history nerd, and I can't tell you how often I read and see articles from journalists that 'cherry-pick' history to defend their narrative while leaving out a myriad of facts.  It's blatant, inaccurate, and flat-out misleading!

 

In addition, if blame is placed, it must go to the squarely at the feet of the Pac-12 presidents.  They hired the past two conference commissioners, allowed TV networks to provide leverage to pull the conference apart, and didn't put written agreements in place to keep the conference together without written approval from the commissioner or fellow presidents.

 

Furthermore, USC and UCLA broke up the conference, not Oregon.  Oregon and Washington waited until the last second before they made their decision.

[Desert Duck]

Sadly, the Beavers just can't handle the truth.

 

In the words of Colonel Nathan R. Jessup to the Beavers:

 

"I would rather that you just said 'thank you' and went on your way... but either way, I don't give a damn what you RiverRats think you're entitled to!"

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Desert Duck