You Know, I'm Just a Small-Time Schmuck...

[Duckpop22]

...but I officiated all three major sports, two of them professionally. I did it all without favor or extra regard for either team, calling the balls and strikes as I saw them, and to the best of my ability. Later, as a broadcaster, I called the games and gave honest opinions. I didn't favor either team, because it was hard enough work just keeping track of who made the tackle, entered the game, and left the contest. Still later, a journalist. Honest, hard-working, rinse, repeat.

 

If I, a small-time schmuck, could do that, why is it hard to believe that the officials, announcers, et al. are as honest as they can be? Why must the narrative be they were as crooked as three dollar bills, out to get OBD at every turn?

 

Bad calls will happen, but they can happen due to a mistake, a bad angle, or a bang-bang play. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy.

 

Trust me, announcers care more about doing a good job and having a good show than some imagined grudge against OBD. Todd Blackledge has zero reason to be anti-OBD. Zero reason!

 

OBD are big-time, folks! Let's be big-time fans. After all, we're Oregon fans, and they don't come any better in all the land.

 

Probably a minority opinion, but I had to weigh in after reading since the game on Saturday.

 

Go Ducks!

[Charles Fischer]

I am going to politely disagree.  I was not looking for them to "get me" in their telecast, as I assumed professional neutrality. But it was they who proved who/what they really are right up to the final words of the telecast.  In fact I began a thread about those parting words right here, and clearly--many other OBD members agreed.

 

I am sick of the lies and deceit in today's media; can they state something as it is without a spin on it?  Now we are getting it in our sports telecasts? The obvious slant and spin? As the late-great Bill Walton would say, "please!"

 

From what I've read about Ohio State fans....they never get beaten.  Either they beat themselves with mistakes, or it was the officials, or corruption with the officials.  (That last one is what the wacko who sent nine emails to me today was claiming)  So perhaps the sportscasters were just playing to majority of their audience?

 

I say give people the benefit of the doubt, but when they prove otherwise, (by halftime) then you have to call it for what it is.

 

They didn't believe how Autzen could be intimidating, but they do now.

 

What I really sensed from many different telecasts and shows on the B1G Network is that they welcome Oregon's Brand and eyeballs that benefit them all, but we are to "know our place." This is an old traditional conference, and our shiny uniforms, our inflatable river-Ducks will have to sit at the end of the table.

 

But Oregon is pressing the issue.  As Josh Pate said in his video tonight...."The B1G was expecting Oregon to have to adjust to the nature of the conference, and now the B1G is learning that they will have to adjust to Oregon."

 

Yep, in just six games, we are impossible to ignore which will generate more of the 'tude we are seeing from them. DuckPop...I can be polite to them, but that does not mean we have to accept the nonsense they sputter on telecasts.

 

And you and I can cheerfully disagree.

 

(And as for being a small-time schmuck?  I never said you were small)  

 

[Drake]

I think everyone knows mistakes are made. Instant replay overturns calls made on the field all the time.
 

Fans come from a variety of professions and backgrounds.  We all have an interest in our team’s success. However, I would never ask anyone to think and act exactly like myself. 
 

I actually enjoy other peoples perspectives. Some fans dislike certain broadcasters, and question calls made on the field…that is never going to change. 

[OregonDucks]

I respect that you tried your best, as an official, and I'm sure you made some incorrect calls in games but those likely tended to balance out during the course of a game/match so that neither team benefited. What I saw on Saturday was different, as the calls were tilted in Ohio State's favor (the traditional B1G power that wields more influence in the conference than any other program). Why didn't the replay officials stop play to review the first quarter potential interception (note: the TV rules expert thought that it was an interception) but they stopped play later in the game to review whether Oregon's receiver stepped out of bounds when Oregon was trying to go up-tempo?

 

Did you see the end of the last few Miami games?  You can't tell me that that was honest officiating.  The problem is that the officials are paid for by the conferences and they know who are writing the biggest checks.  Again, a solution for this would be to go to national collegiate officiating, so that the officials are hired, trained, evaluated and paid by the NCAA (the conferences/schools would then pay the NCAA a fee).

 

Thanks to Charles, we can respectfully disagree on this forum.

[DrJacksPlaidPants]

I chalked the commentary up to familiarity. Todd Blackledge is a Penn State guy who grew up in Ohio. I can’t recall him ever doing many Oregon games before Saturday. 

[OregonDucks]

There were also two defensive pass interference penalties that were not called against Ohio State in the first quarter. One against T. Ferg. and the other against E. Stew.

 

The second one against Evan Stewart with 0:54 remaining in the first quarter was blatant and right in the middle of the field. The Ohio State defender (#1) was grabbing, holding and all over Evan Stewart (#7) the entire play from his break to the attempted catch.  As they were watching the replay, the TV announcer said: "It looks like a lot of grabbing and holding there." 

 

I know that the officials want to let the players play and I don't expect every call to be made but, come on, they get paid to make the obvious/blatant calls and, under no rules, can a defender grab, hold and tackle an offensive player before the ball arrives. 

 

The result of the two series: a punt and missed FG. 

Edited Monday at 02:12 PM by OregonDucks

[Jon Joseph]

 

Don't sell yourself short Duckpop, you're a Big Time Schmuck. Thank you, Caddy Shack (and Charles!)

 

Every play is reviewed by some schmuck(s) in Chicago. But when humans are involved judgment will be involved and that means errors will be made.

 

Blackledge grew up in Ohio and attended Penn State but is a Professional, right? Blacky and his buddy were not prepared for the game. The Oregon program has not been hiding out. I'd like to know when the broadcast crew arrived in Eugene to prepare for the game. This game did not deserve the short end of the B1G broadcast stick. 

 

Dan can't win the B1G One? Check out Day's woeful record vs top drawer opponents. 

 

Just Win, Baby! Only THIS will shut up and shut down the nay-sayers. 

[OregonDucks]

Another questionable call by the refs came at the 7:16 minute mark in the 3rd quarter, when they called an ineligible receiver downfield on Oregon to offset a blatant PI call by Ohio State's defender. The Oregon player they called the penalty against wasn't even in the game, LOL.  I'm not a rules expert but the announcers didn't see anything when they watched the replay.  

 

Luckily, Oregon converted on 4th down but this is just another example of the refs putting their fingers on the scale to the benefit the traditional B1G power, Ohio State. 

 

(Hopefully, Oregon's AD sends these plays into the B1G Conference.)

Edited Monday at 03:54 PM by OregonDucks

[bbmichaels]

I tend to agree with Duckpop. We as fans see through our team-colored lenses and will shout conspiracy, but most of the time it's not really there, IMO. The refs are generally doing their best. Over on the tOSU boards they're crying about the offensive PI call and feel like they got cheated too (though I obviously disagree as IMO it was a pretty easy call).

 

I also believe that when comparing ourselves to other fanbases we consider the best of our own, such as the rational and thoughtful people on this forum, but we compare that to the worst fans of the other teams. There are irrational blowhard Duck fans too, and while there are definitely many of those for tOSU, I've also read several rational and thoughtful posts on 11warriors the past couple days. They shouldn't all be painted with the same brush - except for the guy repeatedly emailing Charles - he should definitely be painted with something.

[noDucknewby]

The refs made and mistakes and could have called a better game.  That could be said about nearly every college football game.  Did they change the final outcome in this one? I agree with Josh Pate, there were bad calls/no-calls on both sides so it's "a wash".

 

It sucks for tOSU that a penalty probably cost them the game at the very end, but guess what they committed it.  Blackledge agreed, calling it "a freshman mistake".

 

The most egregious officiating error was made not so much on getting the Bassa interception wrong, but in not reviewing it (I have no idea why DL didn't call a time-out to challenge this one).   The correct call would have taken a Buckeye TD off the board and it's very likely Oregon would have scored with a short field, potentially a 14-point swing.

 

If you're looking for bias and cospiracies you can always find them.  I'm not saying they don't exist, but I don't think there was definitive bias for either side and fortunately the officiating didn't affect the final outcome of the game.

[woundedknees]

I was amused by Day's comment about the offensive PI call: "There was contact ..."

 

In now way did the contact by the defensive player appear to be more than incidental, but the ensuing push off by the receiver was as blatant as it gets.

 

I'm not sure that ball would have been caught without the contact, but I'm thrilled that penalty wasn't against OBD!

Edited Monday at 04:43 PM by woundedknees

[OregonDucks]

On 10/14/2024 at 11:40 AM, noDucknewby said:

I agree with Josh Pate, there were bad calls/no-calls on both sides so it's "a wash".

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

I just re-watched the entire game. Sure, there might have been some missed calls against the Ducks but please show me the blatant/egregious calls that went against the Bucks.  I can point out multiple that went against Oregon:

 

  1. No replay review on Basa's interception in the first quarter

  2. Missed defensive/holding PI on Evan Stewart with 7:16 in the first quarter (TV announcer watching the replay: "It looks like a lot of grabbing and holding there.")

  3. Offsetting ineligible receiver down the field call on Oregon's offense with 7:16 to go in the 3rd quarter (I'm not a rules expert but I didn't see anything there, neither did the TV announcers, and the player who they called the penalty on wasn't even in the game)

 

The officials also could have called defensive PI on the throw to T. Ferg. in the first quarter, since there was contact, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.  There was also the play stoppage to review whether E. Stewart stepped out, when he was clearly in bounds, and Oregon was trying to go up tempo inside the red zone.

 

Luckily, these calls didn't cost Oregon the game but when you are going up against an evenly matched or more talented opponent, it's hard enough to win. The officials need to make the obvious calls/decisions and the questionable/missed/judgement calls should balance out over a 60 minute game. I just don't see the offset to the above missed calls.

Edited Monday at 05:02 PM by OregonDucks

[noDucknewby]

On 10/14/2024 at 9:59 AM, OregonDucks said:

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

I just re-watched the entire game. Sure, there might have been some missed calls against the Ducks but please show me the blatant/egregious calls that went against the Bucks.  I can point out multiple that went against Oregon:

 

  1. No replay review on Basa's interception in the first quarter

  2. Missed defensive/holding PI on Evan Stewart with 7:16 in the first quarter (TV announcer watching the replay: "It looks like a lot of grabbing and holding there.")

  3. Offsetting ineligible receiver down the field call on Oregon's offense with 7:16 to go in the 3rd quarter (I'm not a rules expert but I didn't see anything there, neither did the TV announcers, and the player who they called the penalty on wasn't even in the game)

 

The officials also could have called defensive PI on the throw to T. Ferg. in the first quarter, since there was contact, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.  There was also the play stoppage to review whether E. Stewart stepped out, when he was clearly in bounds, and Oregon was trying to go up tempo inside the red zone.

 

Luckily, these calls didn't cost Oregon the game but when you are going up against an evenly matched or more talented opponent, it's hard enough to win. The officials need to make the obvious calls/decisions and the questionable/missed/judgement calls should balance out over a 60 minute game. I just don't see the offset to the above missed calls.

I watched the full replay as well.  I'm not saying those mistakes weren't made, but intentional bias is a pretty high bar in my book and officials deserve the benefit of the doubt on this one.  If there really were a concerted effort by the officials to favor tOSU, they could have easily kept the flag in their pocket on that last offensive P.I. call.  Agree to disagree, but yeah I too am damn glad it didn't affect the result.

[anyotherduck]

We should be happy we're now able to play through/past enough of this corrupt officiating to get a "big" win when we weren't supposed to. This is what it takes and Lanning knows.

 

We should be even happier we're not CAL. What the ACC has been doing to the Bears is damn near criminal.

[David Marsh]

On 10/14/2024 at 9:43 AM, woundedknees said:

I'm not sure that ball would have been caught without the contact, but I'm thrilled that penalty wasn't against OBD!

Those Ohio State receivers have incredible hands. The ball just seems to fly to it and stick to them. I'm sure they would have found a way to catch the ball if an Oregon receiver blanketed him... but at least we could have contested it. It was a physical game for sure.

 

But like you I'm just fine with the call going the way it did and not against the Ducks. 

 

Also... lets let Ohio State have their field goal. We get our interception and take 7 points off the board for Ohio State in the process. I'll take that deal. 

[spartan2785]

Over the course of the game, I thought we got hosed on two calls, the interception and the P.I in the first quarter.  Other than that I thought it was called pretty well.  The problem is that not reviewing the interception is just fireable in my opinion, it is so obvious that it should be reviewed that the person in the booth has to be called out and possibly fired, it's inexcusable, and at best incompetent.  It looks mightily like bias because it's so easy to just buzz down immediately and not let OSU to go hurry up.

[Duckpop22]

On 10/14/2024 at 12:21 AM, Charles Fischer said:

"or it was the officials, or corruption with the officials."

Isn't that what this whole forum has been saying since Saturday? Are we any better? No, we're not. (We are, however, happier!)

 

 

Go Ducks!

[30Duck]

On 10/14/2024 at 1:02 PM, Duckpop22 said:

On 10/14/2024 at 12:21 AM, Charles Fischer said:

"or it was the officials, or corruption with the officials."

Isn't that what this whole forum has been saying since Saturday? Are we any better? No, we're no

The difference I see here is like when penalties offset. even when one is a much bigger violation. Same, but not equal. 

[DanLduck]

We don't want to believe it, but we are the new kids on the block. The B1G block.

Sure, we are a national recognized brand, but tOSU, Penn St., Michigan have been holding up the B1G flag for decades. We need to "learn" our place.

 

I anticipated calls going the way of tOSU, but I was shocked at that late PI call on their rising star. The refs were trying to get it right. Awesome. 

 

The past few weeks I've tried to watch B1G football games of teams we will be playing, it seems to me the refs in the B1G allow way more contact than Pac12 refs did. We better get used to it.

 

About the TV crew, they were lazy and not prepped well for Oregon. And there were too few cameras and not enough replays. I hope this changes going forward. I guess that's on NBC. 

 

I'm glad we are now in the B1G, but so far I'm not impressed with quality of game transmission etc. I can't believe the old Pac12 network was better.

 

But with this win, the fan noise, the "controversial" calls, we are well on our way to becoming "that team out west".

[GeotechDuck]

I think the original poster is mostly correct.  Most just want to do a good job.  Maybe there are some gaps in knowledge or other “misses”, but overall it usually evens out somewhere along the way.  
 

That being said, what did Oregon do to Rod Gilmore over the years?   That dude flat out hates us.   

Edited Monday at 10:29 PM by GeotechDuck

[Duckpop22]

To put a bow, I'm not saying the calls were all right. Just that the errors weren't because of "corruption." And, if some of you want to feel put-upon by announcers, I can't change your minds. At any rate, how does National Champion Oregon Ducks sound? I could die a happy man. And Charles knows how close I've come before.

[DUCKED]

On 10/14/2024 at 5:44 AM, OregonDucks said:

I respect that you tried your best, as an official, and I'm sure you made some incorrect calls in games but those likely tended to balance out during the course of a game/match so that neither team benefited. What I saw on Saturday was different, as the calls were tilted in Ohio State's favor (the traditional B1G power that wields more influence in the conference than any other program). Why didn't the replay officials stop play to review the first quarter potential interception (note: the TV rules expert thought that it was an interception) but they stopped play later in the game to review whether Oregon's receiver stepped out of bounds when Oregon was trying to go up-tempo?

 

Did you see the end of the last few Miami games?  You can't tell me that that was honest officiating.  The problem is that the officials are paid for by the conferences and they know who are writing the biggest checks.  Again, a solution for this would be to go to national collegiate officiating, so that the officials are hired, trained, evaluated and paid by the NCAA (the conferences/schools would then pay the NCAA a fee).

 

Thanks to Charles, we can respectfully disagree on this forum.

On that no call interception why didn’t Dan Lanning call for a review? Was he ever asked about that?

[OregonDucks]

On 10/14/2024 at 5:52 PM, DUCKED said:

On that no call interception why didn’t Dan Lanning call for a review? Was he ever asked about that?

 

Coach Lanning said that he thought all close calls were automatically reviewed by the review officials and he didn't want to burn a time out so early in the game. I'm sure that Ohio State ran the next play before those upstairs could tell him that he should review the call.

 

Next time, I wonder if he'll hesitate to call a time out...

[Mudslide]

I think that there have been justified comments about the quality of the refs.  It has been written at length about the PAC-12 officiating being substandard.  Now come a few posts that state that these B1G refs might be worse.  It has only been a half-season, but I tend to agree with that sentiment.

 

Regarding the original post, I agree with most of what DuckPop22 stated.  But I think there is an important element that was only lightly touched upon.  Quality of referees.  When they're bad anyone can point biased fingers.  But when they're frequently and obviously poor calls, then something else is going on.  It has only been a few games that I've watched, perhaps 10 B1G games this year, and I have no horse in any of those except the Ducks. 

 

From what I've seen, the obvious, sometimes horrendous calls have gone inequitably toward the higher ranked teams.  As an example, the refs cost a team I detest a game last week.  U$C. They should easily have won the game, but consistent calls favoring Penn State denied U$C the win.

 

So, biases need not prevent us from venting against shoddy craftsmanship.  And that certainly was the case the unraveled for OBD last week.  And, oh yeah, most of the bad calls did indeed go against the Ducks.  The refs may not be biased, but they sure aren't Grade A.

[TheRunningDuck]

One thing I have always questioned is the coaches teaching the players how to "get away" with interference. Or holding, or trash talking. Basketball coaches teaching how to grab without the refs seeing. 

[Grandpa Duck]

As to a crew of officials conspiring to impact the outcome of a game, that’s laughable.  By my recollection it happened once, about 40 years ago, in college basketball and they got caught.  It was a huge scandal.  I vaguely remember an NBA official who was paid by gambling interests and went to jail.  If officials did conspire to throw a game, it would not happen only once for one game.

 

Consider how many knowledgeable people, coaches, sportswriters, other officials, fans and players there are to recognize a trend.  One of the crew would get drunk and talk to his buddy.  Another would brag to his girlfriend.  Or, as happened 40 years ago, there would be payments and disputes over money, or disputes about who to include in the take.  Someone on the inside would be miffed and sell his story.

 

It’s really hard to become a major NCAA official.  It takes years away from your family at night doing high school JV games, moving up to varsity games, then playoffs, small college games and a very few get a shot at the big time.  
 

For the few who make it they have to balance the part-time officiating job with a real career.  Then there is the wear and tear on an aging body.  Guys who do that are extremely unlikely to risk what they earned by hard work for the ignominy and disgrace that inevitably would follow when they got caught, which is a certainty.

 

[Santa Rosa Duck]

Duckpop22

 

I appreciate your write up and candor.

[OregonDucks]

On 10/14/2024 at 11:59 AM, OregonDucks said:

  3. Offsetting ineligible receiver down the field call on Oregon's offense with 7:16 to go in the 3rd quarter (I'm not a rules expert but I didn't see anything there, neither did the TV announcers, and the player who they called the penalty on wasn't even in the game)

 

FYI, Coach Lanning said that they sent this play in to the B1G Conference, during his press conference this afternoon and the conference admitted that they got the call wrong. Unfortunate that it resulted in an offset to the Ohio State penalty, but at least the conference is B1G enough to admit that they got the call wrong.

Edited yesterday at 02:19 AM by OregonDucks