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cartm25

Is The Ducks’ DLine / Lack of Sacks a Concern?

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Thought I’d ask the OBD about this since I’m more of an observer than an Xs and Os specialist.

 

For context, USC is ranked 3rd in the nation, so far, averaging 4.7 sacks per game; WSU is tied for 6th with 4.0 sacks per game.

 

Oregon is ranked 120th at 0.5 sacks per game.

 

You wouldn’t believe the company Oregon is keeping at the bottom of the nation: Georgia is tied for last averaging 0.0 sacks per game. I believe they have 1 sack in 3 games while also limiting three opponents to basically zero points.

 

Is it a coincidence that DL and Kirby are both down at the bottom? Is there a defensive scheme that would feature limiting an opponent’s points while getting few sacks?

 

I’m still concerned about the Ducks’ lack of a pass rush. I feel like USC will eat us alive if the Ducks can’t generate pressure.

 

Would like to hear your thoughts.

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Georgia had a mixture of a strong OL and getting passes out rather quick against a squishy secondary. 

 

Eastern Washington was all about quick passes and never gave our pash rush enough time to develop. 

 

BYU held the ball longer but there was some weakness in the secondary for some easier passes. 

 

Both BYU and Eastern Washington had some throws that were off because the pass rush was coming and they had to get the ball out quick. So those incompletes aren't sacks but they are a result of the pass rush. 

 

We need our secondary to hold up longer in coverage and we'll see more sacks. I'm not worried... Yet.

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In my study of the Georgia defense of last year and before thus far....Oregon has done almost nothing yet in the way of exotic or even basic blitzes.  Lanning/Lupoi have done a ton of "simulated pressures" where we are playing it safe in the secondary with seven defenders back on pass coverage and only sending four to rush.

 

This has occurred even on third and long at times, and we have applied some pressure because the offensive line doesn't know which four of the seven defenders near the LOS is rushing.  IMHO, I think the players have too much to learn/experience yet, and Lanning is taking it slow with them.

 

Another take is: Georgia surprised us and we were on our heels all day, and add the quick passes to the perimeter--not much opportunity for pressure.  EWU was not going to seriously challenge us, hence no reason to leave basic alignments.  I think our coaching staff was focused on stopping the big brutes on the BYU offensive line, and all the talk about them being more physical might have raised quite serious concerns. 

 

Since BYU was short their two best WRs, then it made sense to stop their running game, and make them try to outscore you through the air with inexperienced receivers.  I think that was a good game plan, hence another view as to why we have not seen much in blitz/pressure packages.  But I believe we will over the course of the season.

 

My analysis about "setting the edge" turned out to be very timely, as there were superb examples of it throughout the game of Oregon doing well setting the edge, or blocking the BYU edge wonderfully.  

 

Hope that helps, but it is simply my guess as...

 

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Mr. FishDuck

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THEATHLETIC.COM

Georgia head coach Kirby Smart: “The game is not to sit back there and have a guy be a sitting target.”
"

The sack is a sexy number and still holds some weight. It’s better to sack someone than not, considering the lost yardage and the chance to force a fumble. There aren’t many highlight videos of quarterbacks just throwing the ball away, and QB pressures don’t show up as a regularly used stat.

 

But defenses, realizing how much harder it has been to get sacks, have not looked at them as the main barometer for whether they’re getting enough pressure.

“It’s the evolution of the game,” Smart said. “Our job is to be disruptive and pressure the quarterback, affect the quarterback. But that doesn’t always equal sack the quarterback, which is obvious this year, that that’s been tough to do.”

 

The South Carolina game was a perfect example of where the game has gone: Spencer Rattler, the dual-threat South Carolina quarterback, spent the game on his heels, rushing throws. Georgia pressured Rattler on 42.9 percent of his dropbacks. But Georgia never sacked Rattler.

Kentucky’s win at Florida two weeks ago is another good example: The Wildcats rattled Gators quarterback Anthony Richardson, forcing him to throw two back-breaking interceptions and generally be ineffective. But he was sacked only once.

 

Michigan has lost edge rusher Aidan Hutchinson to the NFL Draft but has still been great on defense this year, and it isn’t dependent on the sack. While the Wolverines racked up seven in their opener against Colorado State, they only had one against Hawaii and zero in a shutout against UConn.

Alabama superstar Will Anderson only has two sacks, and Alabama is tied for 45th nationally in the category. But the Crimson Tide still have the nation’s fifth-ranked defense.

This doesn’t mean sacks can’t be important to some teams. Arkansas has ridden its nation-leading 17 sacks to an unbeaten start, USC has 14 sacks, and Ole Miss has 13 sacks on the way to having the fourth-ranked scoring defense. Virginia Tech, the nation’s fourth-ranked defense, had five sacks in its 27-10 win over Boston College but only one in its loss at Old Dominion.

 

But the trend shows sacks are becoming less important to the game as a whole. College football has evolved in mostly a straight line, the forward pass gradually becoming more popular, the wishbone nearly extinct and the Air Raid elements present at basically every program.

 

Edited by lownslowav8r
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Of WSU's 14 sacks, only one was against Wisky. The other 13 were Idaho and Colorado state. 

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On 9/20/2022 at 8:08 PM, cartm25 said:

Thought I’d ask the OBD about this since I’m more of an observer than an Xs and Os specialist.

 

For context, USC is ranked 3rd in the nation, so far, averaging 4.7 sacks per game; WSU is tied for 6th with 4.0 sacks per game.

 

Oregon is ranked 120th at 0.5 sacks per game.

 

You wouldn’t believe the company Oregon is keeping at the bottom of the nation: Georgia is tied for last averaging 0.0 sacks per game. I believe they have 1 sack in 3 games while also limiting three opponents to basically zero points.

 

Is it a coincidence that DL and Kirby are both down at the bottom? Is there a defensive scheme that would feature limiting an opponent’s points while getting few sacks?

 

I’m still concerned about the Ducks’ lack of a pass rush. I feel like USC will eat us alive if the Ducks can’t generate pressure.

 

Would like to hear your thoughts.

Great stuff, I suppose it comes down to just win baby! Maybe the sack stat isn't a huge indicator. I would think it is a huge part of causing havoc, something I was watching for this season.

 

I doubt the turnover ratio will ever become irrelevant. We are in the middle of the NCAA stats on this one and Alabama is at the bottom. I look for both programs to start climbing up this list. If we are going to win on the road, turnovers help a ton!

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On 9/21/2022 at 7:48 AM, DrJacksPlaidPants said:

The lack of TO’s is more concerning. 

This is a good point, particularly when paired with the comments on QB hurries possibly being a better barometer of QB pressures than just looking at sack totals. 

 

If we’re not putting the QB on the ground, where are the errant throws?  Hall completed over 70% of his passes for 305 yds. and 2 TD’s.  Very solid numbers for a guy without 2 of his primary targets.  What makes those numbers a little more disconcerting is the fact that the Ducks did a fabulous job of stuffing the run (2.5 per carry) putting BYU in obvious passing downs.   

 

I don’t know.  Maybe we haven’t come up against an opponent that schematically favors the Ducks implementing complex pass-rush schemes…yet.  This week’s game certainly won’t be one, as the ball will be out of the QB’s hand quickly making tackling on the perimeter of the utmost importance in stopping WSU’s offense. 

 

You know what though, I’ll take our guys shutting-down the run any day of the week and cross my fingers that 3rd and longs will eventually turn into picks. 

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On 9/21/2022 at 7:59 AM, Haywarduck said:

Great stuff, I suppose it comes down to just win baby! Maybe the sack stat isn't a huge indicator. I would think it is a huge part of causing havoc, something I was watching for this season.

 

I doubt the turnover ratio will ever become irrelevant. We are in the middle of the NCAA stats on this one and Alabama is at the bottom. I look for both programs to start climbing up this list. If we are going to win on the road, turnovers help a ton!

Great point! I mentioned “sacks” in the topic title since it’s the stat I’ve most commonly associated with a successful DLine; perhaps that mindset needs to change for me.

 

After reading your comment, and others from the OBD, I should probably say QB pressure instead. I’ve still not seen much pressure/havoc on any QB the Ducks have played.

 

I’m hoping to see this improve over the year.

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On 9/20/2022 at 8:08 PM, cartm25 said:

Thought I’d ask the OBD about this since I’m more of an observer than an Xs and Os specialist.

 

For context, USC is ranked 3rd in the nation, so far, averaging 4.7 sacks per game; WSU is tied for 6th with 4.0 sacks per game.

 

Oregon is ranked 120th at 0.5 sacks per game.

 

You wouldn’t believe the company Oregon is keeping at the bottom of the nation: Georgia is tied for last averaging 0.0 sacks per game. I believe they have 1 sack in 3 games while also limiting three opponents to basically zero points.

 

Is it a coincidence that DL and Kirby are both down at the bottom? Is there a defensive scheme that would feature limiting an opponent’s points while getting few sacks?

 

I’m still concerned about the Ducks’ lack of a pass rush. I feel like USC will eat us alive if the Ducks can’t generate pressure.

 

Would like to hear your thoughts.

Georgia also has an elite secondary.  Georgia faces mostly runs against them.  Few will even try to beat Georgia through the air? 

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On 9/21/2022 at 4:48 AM, DrJacksPlaidPants said:

The lack of TO’s is more concerning. 

Agreed on this, but getting a stop on 4th down should count almost as much as a TO. Oregon did that to BYU three times if memory serves and scored on each ensuing possession. Picks, lost fumbles and failed 4th down attempts that result in points for the opponent break a team's back. 

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I am concerned because we are a pass first conference.  The SEC and Big, as a whole, are a run first conference.  
 

But I honestly don’t know?  This Saturday may help to figure that out. 

Edited by debbieduck
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On 9/21/2022 at 7:35 AM, EastBayDuckDad said:

Agreed on this, but getting a stop on 4th down should count almost as much as a TO. Oregon did that to BYU three times if memory serves and scored on each ensuing possession. Picks, lost fumbles and failed 4th down attempts that result in points for the opponent break a team's back. 

A stop on 4th down also often provides better field position, great point!

 

We also converted on 4th down another huge momentum shifter which doesn't show up in the TO stat.

 

I do agree it will be nice to see some blitz packages to put some pressure on the qb going forward, all in due time. Faith in Lanning is still strong!

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I'm not concerned. 

 

If they flush a QB out, I'm good with that. The pressure can wreak havoc.

 

A lot of young QBs are quick to flee the pocket, so it can be tough to get a sack.

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On 9/21/2022 at 4:48 AM, DrJacksPlaidPants said:

The lack of TO’s is more concerning. 

This won't be the week that pushes the Ducks up on the sack list, it really shouldn't even be a plan. WSU's offense works against sacks, Coverage is what works against WSU, so hopefully the TO's will be up.

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I think I heard UGA has one sack this year. Could be wrong. I am not concerned. Keeping teams out of the endzone is what matters.

 

Put Georgia game aside and Oregon is giving up 17 ppg. Take that over sacks any day. 

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On 9/21/2022 at 2:40 PM, Log Haulin said:

I think I heard UGA has one sack this year. Could be wrong. I am not concerned. Keeping teams out of the endzone is what matters.

 

Put Georgia game aside and Oregon is giving up 17 ppg. Take that over sacks any day. 

Even better is Oregon has given up 14 points with the game one the line in two games and 20 points in garbage time though they went into that mode a little early against BYU.

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On 9/20/2022 at 9:14 PM, Charles Fischer said:

IMHO, I think the players have too much to learn/experience yet, and Lanning is taking it slow with them.

TOTALLY agree here, Charles. How on earth can you install "exotic" anything and give adequate reps to expect anyone to be full go in such a short amount of time.

 

I think it is wisdom on the coaches' part to not expect guys to implement a whole lot of new stuff right out of the box.

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On 9/20/2022 at 8:08 PM, cartm25 said:

Would like to hear your thoughts.

Are the lack of sacks a concern (to us)?  Yeah.  

Not giving up any is great, but not getting any, even against EWU, is - definitely.  

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On 9/21/2022 at 9:58 AM, Haywarduck said:

We also converted on 4th down another huge momentum shifter which doesn't show up in the TO stat.

Excellent point! A converted 4th down is like a turnover. Everyone expected the defense to get off the field with a punt, but instead, they stay on the field and the offense starts again with a new set of downs.

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