The Case For SMU: Do YOU Buy It?

[Charles Fischer]

In the article below by Jon Wilner, it brings up reasonable points for bringing SMU into the PAC.  Mostly he makes a good case for looking at the upside for SMU, the way we are with Amazon and streaming games, and I gotta admit--good stuff, and made me ponder.  

 

--What can the growth of SMU in the Dallas/Ft. Worth market become?

--It increases the Pac-12 footprint.

--It increases the Pac-12 inventory of games to offer media companies.

 

What else, and your thoughts?   

 

I have been against the Mustangs from the beginning, but admit to not looking at the future--the upside of the conference.  Utah was regarded as not that much different when they joined, as SMU is now?

 

(This article was posted by Pennsylvania Duck in another thread, but as I encourage all of you--when you see something interesting to discuss--copy the URL and start another thread!)

 

Hotline mailbag: Pac-12 partnerships with Amazon, SMU require same calculation, and more

WWW.KSL.COM

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With Prime Video and the Mustangs, it's all about the late 2020s.

 

[12Duck72]

I dunno Charles, I think you know how I feel about the PAC's chances going forward and now I'm hearing ASU isn't happy with what's going on. Like you I've felt adding SMU doesn't make sense or move the needle much. I know everyone is talking about the Dallas market but looking at comments from people there in the area nobody is really excited about SMU sports. Utah, to their credit has a pretty engaged fan base.

 

Can joining the PAC create a buzz for the Mustangs? I'm not so sure. I think at this point GK has to do something but man things are not looking good. I'm just going to enjoy these next few years because the winds of change are blowing. Enjoy the Super Bowl everyone.

[NJDuck]

From what I found on SMU's endowment.  This site states their endowment is 2.1 billion dollars.  They are ranked number 72 amongst universities nationally in education.

 

Dallas/Ft. Worth market is very good.  Agree with Charles about Utah.  Will SMU joining the Pac12 become an upside for the University and the conference as a whole down the road?  Hard to say with TCU sharing the same market.

 

 

Southern Methodist University - College Confidential

WWW.COLLEGECONFIDENTIAL.COM

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Southern Methodist University Data, Ratings and Rankings

 

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/smu-3613

 

[Flyin Vee]

But but BYU.........

[Jon Joseph]

The DFW market is nice but SMU comes in after Texas, A+M, TCU, and likely Baylor. SMU plays in a 42,000-seat stadium and is a G5, AAC member. Where's the Beef? In terms of the media market San Antonio is not as large. UTSA has no pro-team competition and is a bigger and more popular dog than SMU in Dallas. UTSA is the defending CUSA champ, a preseason top-25 team in many polls, and is moving up to the AAC.

 

However, I do not believe a single team in the central time zone makes sense for a conference that has always been 'partner oriented.' 

 

Playing defense, to keep the B12 out of the Pacific time zone, I'd add SDSU, Fresno, and UNLV. Going on offense in the central time zone I'd add SMU, UTSA, and Tulane.

 

But, depending on the new Pac-12 media deal I'd first go toe-to-toe with the B12 and go after Kansas (AAU member), Iowa State (AAU member), K- State, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech, and Baylor. I'd still go after SDSU for the SoCal market and to add an even number 8 teams.

 

It's easy to play armchair Commissioner. Not so easy 'on the ground.' 

[Charles Fischer]

On 2/12/2023 at 12:07 PM, Jon Joseph said:

SMU plays in a 42,000-seat stadium

Not now; it is 32,000 according to this.

[noDucknewby]

Making a case for SMU is one thing, being objective about their value as an expansion candidate is another.  It's clear to me that ESPN/Amazon is the driving force in getting them on board because they want a chunk of the DFW market.  Sure they have a massive endowment and they are highly rated as an educational institution, but as an addition to an athletic conference do they even move the needle?  To me they don't, especially when they would be replacing one of the only true bluebloods the conference had.

 

Not saying there's no upside, but to me this reeks of desperation.  Once again we are on our heels playing defense on the goal line.

 

I'm resigned that we'll be adding SDSU and SMU and be lucky to beat the B12 deal which we may not even match, despite what GK says.  I like Wilner's take about expansion and TV deal happening in a whirlwind simultaneously, but I don't think that really changes the bottom line much and the longer this thing drags on the greater the chance of the first domino falling with one of the four corners teams leaving.

[HappyToBeADuck]

Well Charles, thats a loaded question..... at this point there might be too many variables.

 

The diminished PAC needs to replace 13 or 14 homes games to replace the loss of the 2 traitors. Those games constitute inventory value for the PAC in their media negotiations.

 

For me, i had to face the fact that their are no glamour schools left to bring into the PAC. usc and ucla blocked the UT and OU expansion so the SEC picked up those powerhouse programs. I asked myself, what's left to get? I was unable to answer myself.

 

Striking now, placing a PAC footprint back in deep So Cal and DFW, is a good move. Mid west content to sell the networks will bring dollars. Much needed dollars!

 

Going on the offense to counter the BIG 12 is critical. The gamble is how soon can SMU become competitive? Do they have the top dollar donors for the type of NIL noney needed to entice some of the 4 and 5 stars to stay in Texas? And to come to SMU?

Who the hec nows.........

 

More important, do they have the money to pay for a top HC and staff. Only time will tell.

 

The PAC, via poor decision making and being out manuevered by a coniving usc president, backed itself into a corner. Not many value choices left to the 10 presidents.

 

As JJ mentioned in his comments, SMU and SDSU need travel companions. Why not add UTSA and Fresno State. Gain more foothold in Texas and keep the BIG 12 out of California.  Viewers in the Cali Big Valley watch and love the Bulldogs. They dont watch the Cal golden bears.

 

None the less, we are all drawing closer to the final results brought upon from bad leadership, bad decision making and the back stabbing traitors. Decisions have consequences.

 

On other sites and from a few on this Forum, there has been mention of going after OK State, Baylor, TCU and TT. The same leadership that is trying to salvage this mess are the same leaders who said no when the BIG 12 begged for a lifeline. Think on that for a few......

 

I wonder who put the brakes on that? If GK advised the Presidents to pass on that expansIon opportunity because they could strike a bigger media deal without them. Then GK is not the right leader for the PAC.........

[The Kamikaze Kid]

To me, it seems if you’re going to bring in SD St and expand into Texas with SMU, you should go all in. What if you also brought in UTSA and Tulane?

 

I don’t see SMU moving the needle much but what if all these CA/ Texas/ LA schools come into a P5 conference together? With the expanded revenue from being in the PAC would bring, their competitiveness and fan interest should grow and add value by the next media contract.

 

Whatever the answer is to this problem, I’m concerned that the PAC leadership will not be able to meet the challenge of the moment.

 

 

[Duck 1972]

It makes no sense to have 1 school in Texas get 3 more for a pod. I like the idea of UTSA and Tulane (gets into Louisiana). ASU, Arizona, UU, and Col.

 

SDSt and either Fre ST or UNLV for a pod with Cal and Stanford. UW, WSU, OSU and the Ducks.

 

If we got to do it swing for the fences. If it doesn't work out it won't be any worse then were we are right now. 

 

P(acific)M(ountain)AC 16

Edited February 13, 2023 by Duck 1972

[2002duck]

On 2/12/2023 at 12:07 PM, Jon Joseph said:

UTSA is the defending CUSA champ

 

On 2/12/2023 at 4:27 PM, Duck 1972 said:

I like the idea of UTSA

UTSA isn't even specifically ranked academically. It just falls into a grouping. So, it's in something like the 350-400 range. I'm not saying Oregon and Washington are like fiduciaries for the PAC 10, but before in the interim before we go to the B1G, we can't let our old friends make these poor decisions. It will just result in teams going to the BIG-12.

 

 

[Flyin Vee]

Be first, Think big, think ahead.,,, Mexico City has 50 million eyeballs. 

[Pennsylvania Duck]

On 2/13/2023 at 10:12 AM, Flyin Vee said:

Be first, Think big, think ahead.,,, Mexico City has 50 million eyeballs. 

I totally agree with you. The trouble is we have leaders, academia and Pac-12 alike, who are not forward thinking. We seem to be reacting rather than setting the pace in these moneymaking decisions.

[Tandaian]

Utah has 25,000 undergraduate students.  SMU has 7,000.  I guess, SMU and Colorado can be travel partners and Utah and SDSU could be travel partners.  If Amazon and ESPN say we need SMU, whatever they are the school that screwed with the travel.  I'm not a fan of adding them, but if it is a must from the TV partners....

[Jon Joseph]

On 2/12/2023 at 2:01 PM, 12Duck72 said:

I dunno Charles, I think you know how I feel about the PAC's chances going forward and now I'm hearing ASU isn't happy with what's going on. Like you I've felt adding SMU doesn't make sense or move the needle much. I know everyone is talking about the Dallas market but looking at comments from people there in the area nobody is really excited about SMU sports. Utah, to their credit has a pretty engaged fan base.

 

Can joining the PAC create a buzz for the Mustangs? I'm not so sure. I think at this point GK has to do something but man things are not looking good. I'm just going to enjoy these next few years because the winds of change are blowing. Enjoy the Super Bowl everyone.

Good take, thanks.

 

ASU isn't happy? ASU's president Crow did more to enable Larry's antics than any other Pac-12 'leader.' 

 

Everything will work out fine for the Ducks regardless of what 'sleeping giant' ASU thinks. ASU has been napping longer than Rip Van Winkle.

 

Oregon, Utah, UW, CU, OR ST, and WSU back their Moneyball teams. I care far more about Oregon and UW's 'happiness' than I do ASU's. 

[OregonDucks]

I don't like the idea of adding SMU.  They do not fit the profile of Pac-12 schools and, as others have mentioned, are probably the fifth most followed school in Texas. 

 

I would prefer to stay at 10 (or add SDSU and UNLV, if it pencils out).

Edited February 13, 2023 by OregonDucks

[Jon Joseph]

On 2/13/2023 at 1:46 AM, 2002duck said:

 

UTSA isn't even specifically ranked academically. It just falls into a grouping. So, it's in something like the 350-400 range. I'm not saying Oregon and Washington are like fiduciaries for the PAC 10, but before in the interim before we go to the B1G, we can't let our old friends make these poor decisions. It will just result in teams going to the BIG-12.

 

 

At this point my friend I think money trumps academics. You can bet that San Antonio would be on B12's radar if Baylor/TCU were not already on board.

[GeotechDuck]

I am afraid the PAC-12 is past a point of no return.  It has been one mistake after another:  

1) Not closing the deal with Texas / OU in the first round of expansion.

2) Not getting a deal done with DirectTV for the PAC-12 channels. 

3) In a position of power with the BIG-12 when Texas and OU announce their departure.  Pac-12 sits on their hands and does nothing.

4) Blindsided by the LA schools' departure to the BIG.

5) Once again sit on their hands and let the BIG-12 jump the line on the media rights deal.

 

Now they are looking at SMU to save the conference?  LOL!  SMU is ranked as the 5th most watched school in it's own TV market and isn't ranked in the Top 85 schools in the country for viewership.   

 

Too late! The Pac-12 had tons of options over the past 10 years and elected to sit and do nothing.  I hate to be negative, but the Arizona schools are going to leave when they finally realize the dollars are going to be lower than the BIG-12 and that they are going to be stuck on a streaming platform. I fully expect this conference to collapse within the next six months.      

Edited February 13, 2023 by GeotechDuck

[Charles Fischer]

On 2/13/2023 at 12:19 PM, GeotechDuck said:

I fully expect this conference to collapse within the next six months.      

I think that is an extreme view, and not likely.

[kirklandduck]

I'm not adverse to adding SMU and the article makes some good points to add them despite the obvious logistical challenges of team travel.  At this point, GK needs to start being aggressive (many may point out that he should have been aggressive last year).  Instead of just adding SDSU and SMU, add in Fresno St. and UNLV. 

 

Fresno doesn't add much in terms of media (though it adds to the game inventory) equation but it keeps any other conferences out of N. Cali.  

 

UNLV has a decent media market and given that the Pac12 championship is played there already, this just makes sense.

 

SDSU for obvious and much discussed reasons regarding S. Cali.

 

SMU for DFW and becomes a test for further expansion in Texas.  If the numbers work out, you can definitely pull in UTSA and Tulane (Texas Tech made more sense geographically but that ship has sailed).  

[GODUCKS15]

P12 needs to be proactive vs reactive.

It's time for the P12 to take a page from Oregon's playbook and be the trend setter.

[Duck 1972]

"Just Do It"

[GeotechDuck]

On 2/13/2023 at 12:24 PM, Charles Fischer said:

I think that is an extreme view, and not likely.

Yeah....you are probably right.  I think I am just a little frustrated.  There were so many opportunities to make this a premier conference over the past 10 years and the conference totally blew it.  Now Oregon is left to suffer the consequences.   

[Charles Fischer]

It is a shame, but if George is out "getting more inventory with more teams," when he clearly stated he was going to sign a media contract first in the past--it sure gives credibility to the rumors about the amount being offered the Pac-12 by the media companies is below what George was blustering to us all about.

 

The only way this can work for the Pac-12 is for the new schools joining take a big haircut for a number of years.  After all, SMU is getting only 7 million a year now from their current media contract, so we could double it to them and have plenty to split with the original conference members?

 

Good Gosh...San Diego State is only getting 3.75 million per year on their media contract?  They could take a huge haircut compared to our payout, yet get quite a raise for them. (How did they compete with that?)

 

[2002duck]

On 2/13/2023 at 12:19 PM, GeotechDuck said:

I fully expect this conference to collapse within the next six months.      

The only way the conference collapses is if UO/UW leave for the B1G. So, I guess it "wouldn't matter". UA & ASU would be making a huge mistake to go to the BIG 12 if UO and UW and the Pac are still intact. Who knows, maybe the Ducks never go to the B1G. In that case, the PAC is not so bad as constructed, and allows for several paths to the Playoffs. 

[noDucknewby]

When the B1G put the brakes on expansion and the CFP went to 12 teams that bought us some time, but that window is closing fast.

 

The B12 is nipping at our heels, TV talks are dragging on and the natives are getting restless.  

 

Our best chance at long-term survival was probably a merger with the B12, but that ship has most likely sailed.  

 

Just about everyone agrees that adding SDSU is a no-brainer so do it now.  If adding SMU will salvage the TV deal, then do it now.

 

Just get a short-term deal done now, whatever it takes.  Then hopefully we can start being proactive with more expansion for the next round.

[McDuck]

The Pac-12 Conference issued a written statement from its 10 remaining presidents and chancellors on Monday.

It read:

“The 10 Pac-12 universities look forward to consummating successful media rights deal(s) in the very near future. Based upon positive conversations with multiple potential media rights partners over the past weeks, we remain highly confident in our future growth and success as a conference and united in our commitment to one another.”

The statement amounts to a curious public-relations punch from the 10 conference stakeholders, designed to combat some criticism and uncertainty unearthed last week by a variety of media outlets.

One Pac-12 source said: “Some of the media narrative on that is not accurate.”

 

 

Canzano: Pac-12 punches back with statement on unity

WWW.JOHNCANZANO.COM

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Conference says it's "highly confident" in future growth.

 

[noDucknewby]

Talk is cheap, show me the money!

 

[duck023]

I like the idea of SMU in the Pac 12. Oregon can beat them but they are respectable.

[Santa Rosa Duck]

What is in the past should live in the past. We are here and now. If it takes adding SDSU plus SMU to the fold to make the Pac 12 whole, then I am for it.

 

Probably a crazy idea but BYU would be a good fit. Any chance of ripping them out of the Big 12?

[GODUCKS15]

On 2/13/2023 at 3:55 PM, Santa Rosa Duck said:

What is in the past should live in the past. We are here and now. If it takes adding SDSU plus SMU to the fold to make the Pac 12 whole, then I am for it.

 

Probably a crazy idea but BYU would be a good fit. Any chance of ripping them out of the Big 12?

Good point. It seems like traditions may need to be on the back burner when moving forward. A huge part of tradition is leaving in the form of USC/UCLA. Maybe it's time for the Pac to reinvent itself.