Is Coach Prime Stupid-As-Hell?

[Charles Fischer]

I was aghast at seeing this...so many bad messages, so many ways it will hurt the team later. Good gosh, I'm glad we don't have him here!

 

(And before you ask...yes, in the rules we can write anything about any coach, player, journalist, anyone-anywhere.  Just nothing personal about current players and coaches.  Performance criticism--yes, getting personal with current players and coaches--no.  The rest of the world is fair game.)

 

 

[Log Haulin]

Dion Sanders is one of the main reasons I stopped watching NFL. That era brought cocky and arrogance to a new level. Complete turn off.

 

Sanders is trash. Hope Ducks humiliate Buffs. Sanders should be reprimanded for promoting violence 

[David Marsh]

Oh boy... Yeah that's not a lesson to teach. 

 

Not trying and stop it... Or get out of the way to help it get broken up. 

 

But yelling at players for not joining in? 

 

That feels like some penalties waiting to happen. Especially this year when the whole league is going to be in edge. 

[spartan2785]

I was thinking about posting a topic on this, I just couldn't believe that a coach would say if one player fights we all fight, actively encouraging escalating brawls instead of diffusing the situation.  I know he is trying to build camaraderie in the team, but all this does is excuse players getting throw out of games for "standing up for themselves and teammates".  It's what leads to undisciplined teams that kill themselves with penalties.

 

One of the things that really pisses me off about Deion, is that he acts like he was some tough guy.  The reality is he was supreme athlete who had ungodly cover skills, but was scared of contact and was at best an average tackler who would rather avoid actually squaring up whenever he could.

Edited August 17, 2023 by spartan2785

[Pennsylvania Duck]

Deion Sanders blasts Colorado players for not joining fight in practice

 

Coming off a 1-11 season a year ago, new Colorado football coach Deion Sanders wants his team to fight harder in 2023.

 

Apparently, he means that literally.

 

A minor scuffle broke out during Wednesday's practice, but rather than stepping in to break things up – as some of his assistants did – Sanders admonished his players for not being more aggressive.

 

"I seen two of you walking off, over there, and you’ve got a key teammate fighting," Sanders interjected. "Where they do that at? Where they do that at?"

 

Not here, the players acknowledged.

 

"If one fights, we all fight," Sanders admonished. "You understand that? I don’t want to see you all walking off when somebody’s fighting. Never again!"

 

There is video of the skirmish in the article...

 

Deion Sanders blasts Colorado players for not joining fight in practice

WWW.USATODAY.COM

---

New Colorado Buffaloes coach calls out players following scuffle: '"I don’t want to see you all walking off when somebody’s fighting...

 

 

[Charles Fischer]

On 8/17/2023 at 8:04 AM, David Marsh said:

That feels like some penalties waiting to happen.

That sounds like a brawl and forfeits in the future.  Glad I'm not in his conference after this year!

[Tandaian]

Do parents really want to send their kids to him? 

 

It probably won't get any publicity, but I can't see the NCAA, the PAC or the Big 12 being OK with a coach encouraging fighting.  I have a feeling there might be a phone call/letter letting Deion know he needs to keep that private.  I'm not quite sure why he OK'd it being released publicly.  You know he authorized that personally.

[Augduck]

A few months ago I started growing tired of Deion and his act.   Now this.  He needs to grow up NOW!  He positions himself as a mentor to these young men.  Encouraging fighting is not what a mentor does.

[Drake]

Sage advice from Coach Prime?

 

I have to wonder about his ego when coveted recruits opt to go elsewhere. A guy like him may not be able to deal with that type of rejection for very long. 
 

We will see how hard he stays in that fight. 

[idontrollonshobbas]

On 8/17/2023 at 8:26 AM, Augduck said:

A few months ago I started growing tired of Deion and his act.   Now this.  He needs to grow up NOW!  He positions himself as a mentor to these young men.  Encouraging fighting is not what a mentor does.

I’m about the same age as Neon Deion and I reached the same conclusion in 1989

[Duckhart]

I think his message was one for all, all for one. Just didn't want half the team waking away when one of the team members was in a scuff. I dont think he was actually advocating for everyone to rumble, but rather so support for your team member.

Im sure Lanning feels the same way.

[Charles Fischer]

On 8/17/2023 at 9:55 AM, Duckhart said:

I think his message was one for all, all for one. Just didn't want half the team waking away when one of the team members was in a scuff. I dont think he was actually advocating for everyone to rumble, but rather so support for your team member.

Im sure Lanning feels the same way.

No Lanning doesn't IMHO. Please watch the last part of that video and listen to what Sanders says...

 

 

[Haywarduck]

Two problems I noticed, both come down to discipline. The simple issue is 'Prime' implying any fight needs to be supported by all. The battle which footbal is, needs to be a team effort, we can all agree. The stupid choice of fighting another team member or opponent can't be condoned. This shouldn't be something to follow. There is a huge difference, and any well coached team will take advantage of that mistaken lesson, lack of discipline, all day.

 

The other problem is it looked like the Colorado players were still a bunch of high school players bodies out there. There might have been talent on that field, but it didn't look like it had been developed with offseason training. Those guys looked tiny!

 

The team Lanning is putting together will have more discipline, and has shown more discipline in the offseason. The trait of discipline, and the lack of it, will haunt the program going forward, from what I saw. 'Prime' had so much talent he didn't need discipline. These kids and most student athletes need discipline, that is the kryptonite of Colorado, and any program 'Prime' is involved in.

[kirklandduck]

Sanders is the new modern day Hindenburg. Just watch him burst into flames and the entire Colorado football program crash into the Earth.

[Washington Waddler]

On 8/17/2023 at 8:07 AM, spartan2785 said:

One of the things that really pisses me off about Deion, is that he acts like he was some tough guy.  The reality is he was supreme athlete who had ungodly cover skills, but was scared of contact and was at best an average tackler who would rather avoid actually squaring up whenever he could.

     Agree. The pitiful truth is he could have been one of the great complete players had he been willing to do the work, rather than just looking the part. The image means more to him than the reality. He’s passing the same message on as a head coach: lotsa bark can substitute for a lack of bite.

 

     Only someone who prefers acting the part could ever have said, “Sure we’re in Limos. We’re stars. How else is a star supposed to travel?” Just like his high-stepping pretense after every pick six, Dion will always prefer acting like he’s been there, to actually being there.

[Charles Fischer]

On 8/17/2023 at 10:49 AM, Haywarduck said:

There might have been talent on that field, but it didn't look like it had been developed with offseason training. Those guys looked tiny!

On a pay site--a member wrote that unless he truly knew it was Colorado...he thought he was watching a high school team!

 

[David Marsh]

On 8/17/2023 at 10:49 AM, Haywarduck said:

The team Lanning is putting together will have more discipline, and has shown more discipline in the offseason.

And disciplined teams don't fight. They support each other and keep their hot headed teammates in line and stop a fight from developing. 

 

Discipline will win fat more games than a bunch of talented individuals. 

[Jon Joseph]

Edited August 17, 2023 by Jon Joseph

[DanLduck]

Definitely bad optics. But stupid?

 

I am not a neon dion fan club member, but I certainly understand the value of "team" play. Being willing to give it all for your fellow teammate. Coach Lanning is attempting to develop the same type attitude, only with much different means. DL preaches/teaches family, not gang membership. 

 

Coach Sanders has shown to be quite different in many respects then what most of us here at OBD appreciate. 

His results on the field will be the proof of his methodology. 

 

This video was clearly shot intentionally, low angle. Was this part of Sanders crew that follows his every move? If so, he definitely was making a point he wants everyone to know, is he trying to "sell" his toughness to recruits?

 

Colorado is the "great experiment" this year. They are doing something no one else has ever done before, build a whole new team from scratch, and be able to compete at D1 level. 

 

There is little time for development of a new culture. It has to be installed. Forced even, if necessary. 

 

I'm an old white guy. I don't pretend to have an understanding of the background that most of these young men come from. Maybe coach Prime has insights I don't have.

 

Lastly, like all social media posts, we aren't getting the whole story. We don't see what coach has been saying all season. We don't see what he may have said as follow up in team meeting. 

 

What I do know is that every one, every team, needs an identity. And everyone responds to different types of motivation.

 

As I said before, the proofs will be seen on the field. DS may be "stupid as a fox".

 

And personally, I am grateful that we have coach Lanning and his staff.

[Augduck]

On 8/17/2023 at 10:49 AM, Haywarduck said:

Two problems I noticed, both come down to discipline. The simple issue is 'Prime' implying any fight needs to be supported by all. The battle which footbal is, needs to be a team effort, we can all agree. The stupid choice of fighting another team member or opponent can't be condoned. This shouldn't be something to follow. There is a huge difference, and any well coached team will take advantage of that mistaken lesson, lack of discipline, all day.

 

The other problem is it looked like the Colorado players were still a bunch of high school players bodies out there. There might have been talent on that field, but it didn't look like it had been developed with offseason training. Those guys looked tiny!

 

The team Lanning is putting together will have more discipline, and has shown more discipline in the offseason. The trait of discipline, and the lack of it, will haunt the program going forward, from what I saw. 'Prime' had so much talent he didn't need discipline. These kids and most student athletes need discipline, that is the kryptonite of Colorado, and any program 'Prime' is involved in.

I have to admit and I may be swatted down here, but hear me out.   I was sort of glad when Lanning curtailed the dancing during Shout.   I get that it's a spirit thing and a way to get the crowd fired up but as DL said, during that time they are trying to coach the guys up and they should be paying attention.  Not in anyway trying to take the fun away but the team needs to be focused.   We saw what lack of focus did in 2016 and at times under the previous coach.  My two cents.

[CountryProf]

Augduck, I agree.  I recall Lanning saying at the time that this wouldn't necessarily be a permanent thing.  If future teams can maintain discipline and listen to coaches' instructions, the 'Shout-dancing' would be allowed to resume.  I hope it gets to that point---it is very fun to watch, and it fires the crowd up.

[Autzen Magic]

On 8/17/2023 at 11:38 AM, Charles Fischer said:

On a pay site--a member wrote that unless he truly knew it was Colorado...he thought he was watching a high school team!

 

I quickly scanned the rosters of the Buffaloes and the Ducks and if the weights listed on the rosters are accurate and my math is correct, CU has 10 players 300 lbs or heavier and the Ducks have 29 players 300 lbs or heavier.  Heavier does not necessarily mean better, but it certainly helps to have some beef up front.

[Just Ducky]

 A reward for learning and listening will always be appreciated by the coaches. Hopefully our new ducks will get the message and with winning the celebration can resume.

[SilverDuck]

On 8/17/2023 at 12:54 PM, DanLduck said:

Definitely bad optics. But stupid?

 

Coach Sanders has shown to be quite different in many respects then what most of us here at OBD appreciate. 

His results on the field will be the proof of his methodology. 

 

 

I would disagree to an extent. If all we care about is winning football games, then yes his results on the field will be the proof (or lack thereof) of his methods. If life is more than football and we truly care about mentoring young men into responsible, productive adults, then results on the field are only a part of the story, and possibly only a small part. In my opinion this is more than bad optics, this is harmful to those young men in his care.

[woundedknees]

As one who was chided at times for walking away from a fight, I also know that it pays to be able to stop one... Just diving in never helped as much as assessing the best way to defuse a situation, if at all possible, or figuring out a way to break it up and prevent more serious consequences.

 

It helps to know how to effectively defend oneself, if there is no alternative, but knowing that, and the ability to know which option is best, is far more valuable than just, "gittin' in the fight.

[Haywarduck]

Maybe somebody can help me with the situation. It was Oregon against either ucla, or usc and our 3* O-lineman was going against the opposing teams 5* D-lineman on a critical down. The O-lineman said or did something which he knew was going to set off the undisciplined lineman and was able to help Oregon get a 1st down.

 

I still remember the replay of our O-lineman with his hands up, smiling as the D-lineman shoved him. The outcome 15 yds, and a first down.

 

The other outcome, in the end the Oregon lineman ended up in the NFL, the LA kid telling stories like Uncle Rico. Colorado is just going to be another Uncle Rico producer, like too many LA university kids.

[DanLduck]

On 8/17/2023 at 2:42 PM, SilverDuck said:

I would disagree to an extent. If all we care about is winning football games, then yes his results on the field will be the proof (or lack thereof) of his methods. If life is more than football and we truly care about mentoring young men into responsible, productive adults, then results on the field are only a part of the story, and possibly only a small part. In my opinion this is more than bad optics, this is harmful to those young men in his care.

Thats a great point. I agree completely that coaching is more than W and L's.

They are developing boys to men.

 

As I reflect on this video, the more convinced I am that it's purposeful.

This was not filmed by a bystander, it was done by coach Primes staff. 

So that just makes me think there is more to it.

 

As for results on the field, that includes how they play, not just W & L.

Intensity, discipline, how well they support each other. 

 

Remember too, that football is inundated with military jargon and phrases that aren't literal. "Fight" for instance, "kill", "destroy" etc.

 

I am not a supporter of his style, but I hope there is more to his training than meets the eye.

 

[Log Haulin]

On 8/17/2023 at 12:54 PM, DanLduck said:

Maybe coach Prime has insights I don't have.

Sanders has a life time in the public eye. Nobody's shocked by this video. Not coming from Sanders. Huge tell on the insights of "Prime Time... ". Glad he is moving on to B12

[2002duck]

On 8/17/2023 at 8:02 AM, Log Haulin said:

That era brought cocky and arrogance to a new level.

All I've got to say is that I was an A-student my whole life, and the only reason I ever got sent to the principal's office is because I got sucked into the Arsenio Hall and MC Hammer hype. Some friends and I were doing the Arsenio Hall audience "woot-woot" routine at a school talent show, and when we were told to stop I told the chaperone that we were "2 Legit 2 Quit". Deion jeopardized my academic career!

 

Luckily, it was the last day of elementary school, and it was not placed on my "record'!

[HDuck]

"....video was clearly shot intentionally, low angle. Was this part of Sanders crew that follows his every move?"

 

Or, one of the women student assistants, generally 5-2 ft tall?

 

I don't discount this was a bit of showmanship on Prime's part.

 

He seems to be someone who might have a short temper over stupid penalties.  And, fighting would fit that category.

[OceaniaDuck]

That kind of reminds me of the old antics of the U of Miami, which according to a 30 for 30 ESPN episode, were responsible for the NCAA creating all of the excessive celebration and other sportsmanship rules in college football today.

 

In a morbid sort of way, the antics of U of Miami players back in the day certainly made college football interesting and hilarious to watch lol.

[DrJacksPlaidPants]

Coaching Against Prime 101:

1. Put in 3rd stringer

2. Have 3rd stringer start a fight

3. Watch 3rd stringer take a beating in full pads

4. Watch opposing team’s starters get ejected

5. Beat opposing team’s back-ups mercilessly 

[Mike West]

You know, if Eddie Robinson faced off against Bear Bryant in their time, Robinson would have smoked the Bear...and then some. Anyone that disputes that only need to uncover all the AFL players Robinson coached that altered pro football when Bryant was sending players to the NFL.  

 

Robinson was a class act, and wasn't brash like Deon Sanders is.  He probably would be considered an acceptable coach in this era, because his style matches the successful coaches in this era.

 

Lane Kiffin just held a presser about the fact not many black coaches get the opportunities they deserve to be head coaches.  I wonder if it is because many of the black coaches are similar in style to Willie Taggart and Sanders.  The kind of style most fans don't like because they are so different.  

 

Sanders is much more than hype.  His previous school was successful because of his style, his work ethic, and the expectations he set for his 'kids'.  I think that will eventually translate to Colorado, and it will be because he is who he is.  

 

While I don't subscribe to fighting , I had a similar response, but I wasn't offended by his comments.  Furthermore, you will find all of his NFL teammates respected Sanders' work ethic (he demanded they work as hard as he did), and they appreciated WHO he was- especially the white players.

 

Sanders went head up against Bo Jackson, and got run over pretty bad.  He didn't challenge much after that.  I wonder if it was because he wanted a long NFL career, and didn't feel the need to challenge bigger players than himself.

 

He was brash yes, but he backed it up in work ethic and results.  I seem to note players like Gronk, though not as brash, sure played it up like Sanders did.  It's just a matter of style in my opinion, and yes Sanders comes from a background where you damn near had to stud up- because that's what it's like in a lot of black neighborhoods. 

 

Don't let the style fool you.  Sanders is competitive.  And his fellow coaches are going to hate it if  he starts recruiting very well and starts winning -which I believe will happen.  And some of them quite frankly will deserve Sanders' response. 

 

I don't think it was a good idea that Lanning trashed Colorado on the way out.  We know Sanders would have been criticized for that gesture (by far).  Not that I think Lanning was wrong, I just would have whipped Colorado instead.  Let your play do the talking.  

 

I know I would be out for Sanders myself, but not to humiliate him.  Just to show I'm a damn good coach.  That's the class and style fans enjoy.  But internally, I damn well know Sanders is a force to be reckoned with, no matter his style.  Unlike a lot of classless coaches that negatively recruit, I respect Sanders for bringing his attitude and style.  You know who he is.  He isn't phony one bit.

[SoGaDawg]

I’ll admit that the optics on this are terrible, bc most will take what he said and how he acted at face value.  I’m not really a coach Prime fan, but I do assume that he had a reason for his reaction.  

He has a ton of players that have never played together and have no experience with one another.  This is not the best recipe for an organized team sport like D-1 football.  I’m not saying I agree with his approach, but I honestly do assume that his intent is to build team chemistry and not at all to say that it’s ok to start or antagonize fights.  I kinda think he is attempting to encourage them to rely on and look out for one another.  
 

And again, maybe it’s not the right approach, I honestly thought bad of it when I first heard it.  But at the same time, I gotta assume that Sanders’s experience in dealing with things such as team chemistry at such a high level likely far exceeds my knowledge of the best recipe for the subject.

 

[Duckhart]

Played Pop Warner & HS football in 60"s. What's Sanders said was all Neon motivational hype. The coaches I had back then at both levels used crude cussing and tough brash talk to get their point across.

Get your lazy ... going. wth are you guys doing...knock his fricken.....head off. You AH's want to rum more..Diont play like a bunch of p......just examples ob how this game has evolved.

So when I hear ND say when one fights we all fight, I see right through it and the motivation he wants.

[Gizmoduck]

I'll try to keep it short. I'm a fan of coach Prime, and I'll agree it may not look good from where we're sitting. But if you go back and reread everything he has ever said as a coach, not a player, but as a coach, he has always said "I'm old-school."  Not to condone what's happening in the video, but what he's saying is old-school. But anyone that has ever heard of Deion Sanders knows he knows how to manipulate the narrative.

 

Case in point, a lot of people immediately concluded that his team will most likely be undisciplined and incohesive. (I'm paraphrasing, not saying you're right or wrong) but as a master manipulator He only let us see what he wanted us to see. Maybe I'm wrong but as a coach myself I might say something similar to drive home the point that as a team we have to stand up for each other. Now if the combatants are teammates (which happens almost every camp, young men tend to get testy after repeatedly beating on each other) after the fight is broken up there is a level of punishment that we didn't get to see. WE DON'T FIGHT EACH OTHER!!!

 

I think coach Prime is using every little negative comment about him and his team as motivation, and when he feels the energy ebbing, he releases a video like this, and there is a fresh new level of motivation and unifying material. Also, I could be wrong so who knows?

Edited August 19, 2023 by Gizmoduck

[Duckhart]

On 8/18/2023 at 11:46 PM, Gizmoduck said:

I'll try to keep it short. I'm a fan of coach Prime, and I'll agree it may not look good from where we're sitting. But if you go back and reread everything he has ever said as a coach, not a player, but as a coach, he has always said "I'm old-school."  Not to condone what's happening in the video, but what he's saying is old-school. But anyone that has ever heard of Deion Sanders knows he knows how to manipulate the narrative.

 

Case in point, a lot of people immediately concluded that his team will most likely be undisciplined and incohesive. (I'm paraphrasing, not saying you're right or wrong) but as a master manipulator He only let us see what he wanted us to see. Maybe I'm wrong but as a coach myself I might say something similar to drive home the point that as a team we have to stand up for each other. Now if the combatants are teammates (which happens almost every camp, young men tend to get testy after repeatedly beating on each other) after the fight is broken up there is a level of punishment that we didn't get to see. WE DON'T FIGHT EACH OTHER!!!

 

I think coach Prime is using every little negative comment about him and his team as motivation, and when he feels the energy ebbing, he releases a video like this, and there is a fresh new level of motivation and unifying material. Also, I could be wrong so who knows?

Yep, very old school. Kids now days could use some it too, imo. Not overboard, but enough to get attention and message across about being focused enough and durable enough to play a violent game. As one who once played the game I loved a coach that got on us and pushed for excellence. And when the coach offered praise and recognition it meant more.

 

[Charles Fischer]

 

[Charles Fischer]

A Pac-12 assistant, who went off the record with Athlon Sports put it bluntly, "The circus is in town, and you can have a real good time. But, the circus always does two things. They take your money, and they leave town."