Deal With It: Epic Oregon-USC Battles Ahead

[FishDuck Article]

Good gosh we have had quite some discussion about the relationship between the Trojans and the Ducks, and FishDuck writer Darren Perkins knows how throw a grenade in the room. We have these exchanges in numerous threads in the Our Beloved Ducks forum that were superb debates, and wonderful to read as OBD members kept on topic without going after ...

 

Read the full article here...

[The Kamikaze Kid]

It's a lot funner to hate a team when they are good. 

[Notalot]

Having witnessed the beat-downs of the Ducks by the Trojans in the “student body right - student body left” days, and the era of “Tail Back U”, experiencing the last 15 years of the Ducks superiority has been satisfying.

 

O.J. Simpson, Mike Garrett, Ricky Bell, Marcus Allen, Charles White, Anthony Davis, Reggie Bush…

 

It will be good for the PAC-12 for USC Football to become nationally relevant again, as it should be. Let new epic battles begin between the North and South. Fly Ducks fly.

 

The Ducks are positioned to take on all-comers and win.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Notalot

[Haywarduck]

SC will have better scheme and better players. Oregon will undoubtedly have better scheme, kind of like limbo at 6', and it is looking like better players too. The bigger question is which program will have the culture to win big, and win when it should. Neither program has this culture established and it won't be a walk in the park to create this. Riley has proven he can get to the playoff, but not win it all. Lanning comes from a program which did it all. 

 

I would say the expectations at sc will be almost stifling from the start. With a qb who will be the favorite for the Heisman and Riley pulling in pretty much whoever he wants they have to win now. The trick will be establishing a culture which Riley has never done. Can he turn an ego playground into a winning unit. Also was the pattern of Williams putting in subpar performances at the end of the season a precursor to having the sophomore blues. Caleb was magic early in the season but then lost two games late. Might he be less than many think, and who is going to back him up?

 

For Oregon it also comes down to the qb too. Might Nix be the veteran leader Oregon needs to lead the program to a culture change we all want to see. Suddenly Oregon is the disciplined scoring machine without the sophomore, freshman mistakes, or just underperformance seen with little talent behind center. Nix just might help indoctrinate this young team toward the winning direction only player leadership can. I tend to think it will come down to how these two leaders perform on and off the field. Don't forget Noah on the defensive side, a guy who Lanning has to be drooling over.

 

So it is a little limbo party between these two programs. Which program is going to be able to continue to stand up as the bar is lowered on the programs week after week.  SC has all the hype and really expectations. Oregon has a veteran in their back pocket who just might be the secret to making sure we don't fall down as the games get tougher and the season drags on. It all looks easy now, but as the season gets going the drama is going to become unmistakable, and measurable.

[Notalot]

On 2/17/2022 at 9:57 AM, Haywarduck said:

SC will have better scheme and better players. Oregon will undoubtedly have better scheme, kind of like limbo at 6', and it is looking like better players too. The bigger question is which program will have the culture to win big, and win when it should. Neither program has this culture established and it won't be a walk in the park to create this. Riley has proven he can get to the playoff, but not win it all. Lanning comes from a program which did it all. 

 

I would say the expectations at sc will be almost stifling from the start. With a qb who will be the favorite for the Heisman and Riley pulling in pretty much whoever he wants they have to win now. The trick will be establishing a culture which Riley has never done. Can he turn an ego playground into a winning unit. Also was the pattern of Williams putting in subpar performances at the end of the season a precursor to having the sophomore blues. Caleb was magic early in the season but then lost two games late. Might he be less than many think, and who is going to back him up?

 

For Oregon it also comes down to the qb too. Might Nix be the veteran leader Oregon needs to lead the program to a culture change we all want to see. Suddenly Oregon is the disciplined scoring machine without the sophomore, freshman mistakes, or just underperformance seen with little talent behind center. Nix just might help indoctrinate this young team toward the winning direction only player leadership can. I tend to think it will come down to how these two leaders perform on and off the field. Don't forget Noah on the defensive side, a guy who Lanning has to be drooling over.

 

So it is a little limbo party between these two programs. Which program is going to be able to continue to stand up as the bar is lowered on the programs week after week.  SC has all the hype and really expectations. Oregon has a veteran in their back pocket who just might be the secret to making sure we don't fall down as the games get tougher and the season drags on. It all looks easy now, but as the season gets going the drama is going to become unmistakable, and measurable.

Speaking of limbo and drama I look forward to the futures of Thompson and Butters. They are both potentially great signal callers who hold the attributes of greatness. They are smart, have the requisite stature, boast big arms, and have plenty of practice experience under their belts. I’m hoping they will remain loyal to Oregon and Oregon Football. 
 

Through the drama of the season, and the limbo that Thompson and Butterfield dance, I hope that one of them will emerge to eventually become a national champion and high 1st round NFL Draft pick. It’s not over until it’s over.

 

[Jon Joseph]

On 2/17/2022 at 10:09 AM, Notalot said:

Speaking of limbo and drama I look forward to the futures of Thompson and Butters. They are both potentially great signal callers who hold the attributes of greatness. They are smart, have the requisite stature, boast big arms, and have plenty of practice experience under their belts. I’m hoping they will remain loyal to Oregon and Oregon Football. 
 

Through the drama of the season, and the limbo that Thompson and Butterfield dance, I hope that one of them will emerge to eventually become a national champion and high 1st round NFL Draft pick. It’s not over until it’s over.

 

Great take. But Nix wins the job and 1 or both are probably gone. You can bet that both will be heavily 'recruited' to enter the portal and play right away for team X. And with the portal recruiting will likely come the promise on NIL $. 

 

 

[Annie]

On 2/17/2022 at 6:57 AM, Haywarduck said:

... The trick will be establishing a culture which Riley has never done. Can he turn an ego playground into a winning unit....

I remember one year Bellotti saying that USC  had the best players, but that they didn't play as a unit.

[Jon Joseph]

Great take Charles, thank you. The folks on the Georgia board(s) know whereof they speak. USC is the Pac-12's Blue Blood. USC moves the needle nationally. The conference needs a player in LA in order to come anywhere close to the B1G and the SEC in media revenue. Plenty of folks will watch Oregon play Utah for a Pac-12 title on Friday night; but plenty more will watch Oregon playing SC for the title. That's not speculation, that's based on the number of eyeballs that tune in to watch USC and Oregon play football. 

 

The Pac-12 has to pull itself up by the boot heels. The conference 'leaders' decided not to expand so what you see is what you get. And looking at the conference records OOC and in bowl games, what you see is junk.

 

The hiring of Lincoln Riley and the signing of Caleb Williams put the conference, for a few days at least, front and center. Riley's hiring was far bigger news than the hiring of De Boer in Seattle and Lanning in Eugene. Will Riley be all that as a HC in LA? Will Williams, now the front runner odds wise for the Heisman, play to his potential? The answer to both questions is, 'I don't know.' But I do know that the hiring and signing gave a moribund conference some much needed positive publicity. The same kind of publicity sleeping blue blood Bama earned when it signed Nick Saban.

 

CFB is big business. CFB is entertainment. The entertainment capital of the USA is LA. I hope Riley succeeds big time and when USC plays Oregon for the conference championship both are in the top 10 and battling for a playoff spot; or, spots once the field expands.

[30Duck]

On 2/17/2022 at 8:00 AM, Jon Joseph said:

 

CFB is big business. CFB is entertainment.

This is what CFB is now. It used to be football, back in the day. But now football is an entertainment spectacle. SNF, Sunday Night Football on NBC has been the most watched "program" for several years now. The Invitational is the Season Finale, each week's reveal is "Must- See TV.

 

As long as Oregon is in the Pac-12, I believe that what is better for the Pac-12 is better for Oregon. Getting Lanning from Georgia was a great response to USC getting Riley. Oregon and USC have had epic battles the last 10-15 years now. It is a rivalry in the true sense of the word, not the 15-2 beatdown with that other school. 

[Haywarduck]

On 2/17/2022 at 7:34 AM, Jon Joseph said:

Great take. But Nix wins the job and 1 or both are probably gone. You can bet that both will be heavily 'recruited' to enter the portal and play right away for team X. And with the portal recruiting will likely come the promise on NIL $. 

 

 

The great teams also have capable, dynamic back-ups. The SC-Oregon rivalry may come down to which team has the best back-up. Oklahoma certainly proved that the past couple years. The magic is can Caleb turn an amazing freshman season into a heisman worthy college career. He may just prove a one hit wonder like Rattler did before him, under Riley. They actually have similar situations, sophomores coming back after exciting freshman years. Rattler was the Heisman candidate, but replaced by Caleb.  This year who is going to replace Caleb and keep the magic going, if needed?

 

I doubt both Oregon back-ups will transfer, but the battle through spring, summer may create a casualty which could be damaging to Oregon's depth and strength at qb. I am not sure how Cristobal kept all the talent happy while putting a product on the field which didn't reflect what he promised, but Lanning will need to keep that contentment going. It will be a dance through fall camp to have a strong starter and capable, happy back-up or two.

 

The portal does seem to be the new way to get qb candidates. Last year there were a few 5*, and multiple 4* qb's finding new programs. We need to show we can develop our qb's, but there seems to be a new way. The trick this season is to keep at least two top guys in the program so we can be ready for what develops as the season progresses. SC has a few backups, but nothing exciting, one is 5' 9" 170lb. senior who has never played. They better hope these guys never get see the field or it could be a long season for the trojans.

 

 

 

 

[OhioDuck]

On 2/17/2022 at 10:34 AM, Jon Joseph said:

Great take. But Nix wins the job and 1 or both are probably gone. You can bet that both will be heavily 'recruited' to enter the portal and play right away for team X. And with the portal recruiting will likely come the promise on NIL $. 

 

 

Strategically it could be better to start Thompson even if he doesn't win the job outright. Nix is not transferring anywhere. Then the head to head can take place as the season goes on. Thompson is having an off game Nix comes in and leads to a victory, Nix then has an off game Thompson or Butterfield (let's see how that is going too) come in.

 

Having multiple QBs ready to play and getting playing time is not a bad thing as long as both are prepared and have the reps they need. 

 

This past year we saw what it was like when one QB just couldn't get it done and the coaching staff had no one ready to come in in relief. This year whoever wins the position out of the gate, let's make sure others get reps and are ready to go.

 

Even if Nix starts, if Thompson and Butterfield know they are going to see the field on game day too, they just might stick around until next year when he's gone.

[30Duck]

On 2/17/2022 at 10:24 AM, OhioDuck said:

Even if Nix starts, if Thompson and Butterfield know they are going to see the field on game day too, they just might stick around until next year when he's gone.

From an egalitarian point of view, I understand what you're saying. But while i agree it should be used in practices, I don't see every QB knowing they are playing in each game, working out, and practically speaking would be damaging to the offense I believe,

[Duck1984]

On 2/17/2022 at 10:24 AM, OhioDuck said:

Strategically it could be better to start Thompson even if he doesn't win the job outright.

In theory, or with a cupcake opponent for a first game, this strategy could work.

 

With Georgia as the season opener, the best performing QB at the end of Fall camp has to start.

[Smith72]

The low scoring offense the last few years along with a head coach adverse to the risk of letting our talented backups get playing time was a problem.  

 

Hopefully a higher scoring offense under coach Dillingham will allow the backup to get live game playing time.

 

This should help with future player development!

[Jon Joseph]

On 2/17/2022 at 12:38 PM, Haywarduck said:

The great teams also have capable, dynamic back-ups. The SC-Oregon rivalry may come down to which team has the best back-up. Oklahoma certainly proved that the past couple years. The magic is can Caleb turn an amazing freshman season into a heisman worthy college career. He may just prove a one hit wonder like Rattler did before him, under Riley. They actually have similar situations, sophomores coming back after exciting freshman years. Rattler was the Heisman candidate, but replaced by Caleb.  This year who is going to replace Caleb and keep the magic going, if needed?

 

I doubt both Oregon back-ups will transfer, but the battle through spring, summer may create a casualty which could be damaging to Oregon's depth and strength at qb. I am not sure how Cristobal kept all the talent happy while putting a product on the field which didn't reflect what he promised, but Lanning will need to keep that contentment going. It will be a dance through fall camp to have a strong starter and capable, happy back-up or two.

 

The portal does seem to be the new way to get qb candidates. Last year there were a few 5*, and multiple 4* qb's finding new programs. We need to show we can develop our qb's, but there seems to be a new way. The trick this season is to keep at least two top guys in the program so we can be ready for what develops as the season progresses. SC has a few backups, but nothing exciting, one is 5' 9" 170lb. senior who has never played. They better hope these guys never get see the field or it could be a long season for the trojans.

 

 

 

 

Great take. The college back-up QB is an endangered species in this era of wide open free agency. Many the school will be pulling its next starting QB not from the bench but from the portal. Starting QBs Rising at Utah, Williams at SC, Nix at Oregon (if he wins the job,) Penix at UW, Plummer at CAL, de Laura at Arizona, Ward at WSU, and it looks like Tyson at ASU, all transferred in. I think this is also the case with Nolan at OR ST?

 

Recruiting the portal today is a big deal. Especially at the QB position.

 

 

[Jon Joseph]

On 2/17/2022 at 1:24 PM, OhioDuck said:

Strategically it could be better to start Thompson even if he doesn't win the job outright. Nix is not transferring anywhere. Then the head to head can take place as the season goes on. Thompson is having an off game Nix comes in and leads to a victory, Nix then has an off game Thompson or Butterfield (let's see how that is going too) come in.

 

Having multiple QBs ready to play and getting playing time is not a bad thing as long as both are prepared and have the reps they need. 

 

This past year we saw what it was like when one QB just couldn't get it done and the coaching staff had no one ready to come in in relief. This year whoever wins the position out of the gate, let's make sure others get reps and are ready to go.

 

Even if Nix starts, if Thompson and Butterfield know they are going to see the field on game day too, they just might stick around until next year when he's gone.

There is a reason why Dillingham brought in Nix and there is a reason, assuming they got a fair shot, why Thompson and Butters could not beat out journeyman Anthony Brown. These two may simply have been overrated by the recruiting services?

 

Nix has 2 seasons of eligibility left if he wants to stay and play 2 years for the Ducks.

[OhioDuck]

On 2/17/2022 at 3:35 PM, Jon Joseph said:

There is a reason why Dillingham brought in Nix and there is a reason, assuming they got a fair shot, why Thompson and Butters could not beat out journeyman Anthony Brown. These two may simply have been overrated by the recruiting services?

 

Nix has 2 seasons of eligibility left if he wants to stay and play 2 years for the Ducks.

If Nix plays well this year, he's going to make some money in the NFL, unless we can offer him more in NIL.

 

Of course if he is really playing well we will want him to stay. We have a couple of offers to the top guys in the '23 class. They'd be ready then when Nix left. 

 

I always want to have more than one good QB though. Too many injuries, off days, and sometimes a team just has one QB's number and another comes in and smokes them. 

 

Sometimes guys aren't on the bench because they can't play or even because they are not as good as the guy ahead of them. Off the top of your head, can anyone name the guys playing ahead of Joe Burrow that made him transfer from Ohio State? 

[OhioDuck]

On 2/17/2022 at 2:09 PM, Duck1984 said:

In theory, or with a cupcake opponent for a first game, this strategy could work.

 

With Georgia as the season opener, the best performing QB at the end of Fall camp has to start.

Yes, the Georgia opener can change things. Even then if the competition is close, then you can still bring in Nix if things don't go well. 

 

Part of what I'm hoping for is that there will not be this awful reality of a QB performing at an unacceptable level and never an inkling of having a back up come in. It would have been nearly impossible for Thompson to have played worse than AB at times (not all the time) this past year.

 

In the best scenario whoever wins the position will play at a high level.  

[Quackerbacker]

Love all this thoughtful insight.  Makes me think which is hurting my brain.  But like you Hayward, I'm wondering considering  the current climate in LA how quickly Riley will be able to change the culture down there.  It may take a couple years for USC to develop a winning culture even with the incoming talent.  If they get down in the 4th quarter will they have the confidence and determination to come back and win those games?  I'm not sure that will be the case right out of the gate next year.  

 

Jon, you are so spot on.  It's football but more importantly now it's entertainment. Its all about money and eyeballs, eyeballs, eyeballs.  The only way we survive as a conference (without becoming a lower tiered conference like the upcoming Big-12) is getting more eyeballs on the product we offer.  And that only occurs if we have a USC (and maybe a few others) playing at a much higher level so that the east coast,  Northeast,  and the South sits up and takes notice.  That leads to a lot more money via television rights (or streaming?) which then helps all the conference teams steup up even more.

[shawnski]

The only way this benefits Oregon is:

 

1) Pac12 moves to an 8 game conference schedule

 

2) The conference dumps all of these stupid night games

 

If not, USC will dominate the noise, and if they actually win (I'm skeptical), it will push Oregon aside 

[OhioDuck]

On 2/17/2022 at 4:21 PM, shawnski said:

The only way this benefits Oregon is:

 

1) Pac12 moves to an 8 game conference schedule

 

2) The conference dumps all of these stupid night games

 

If not, USC will dominate the noise, and if they actually win (I'm skeptical), it will push Oregon aside 

Don't know about the 8 game schedule one way or the other.

 

The night games are not good for exposure if you want the exposure to include the East Coast. Here in Ohio, I can't watch a PAC 12 game at 8PM PST. 1 PM PST, 4 PM here games make a lot of sense.

 

People here watch OSU or Alabama and a PAC game comes on right after on the same channel. Hopefully they see Oregon and realize how exciting the football is and become a fan, I did.

 

SC will always get top billing for TV. They are in the largest TV market in the country. The draw back for SC is that they have a lot of competition in their market, Dodgers, Angels, Super Bowl Champion Rams, Chargers, Clippers, Lakers... to a lesser extent UCLA.

 

Oregon doesn't have the giant market, so Oregon has to beat them with a better product. The past 10+ years they've done just that. With Riley that may be harder. But the Oregon brand is national now, it's not just SC, it's Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Florida, Clemson, Oklahoma... why do you think many of those programs adopted a fast paced, wide open spread offense?

 

Oregon was winning a lot of east coast fans because their product was more fun to watch, and even those who weren't fans were talking about Oregon football, is part of the reason. I think this was something MC did not understand. Oregon became a national brand because Oregon football was FUN, FUN, FUN! May it be so again!

Edited February 17, 2022 by OhioDuck

[DanLduck]

To make the playoffs, and win a Natty, we have to win. We need to be able to beat really good teams.

So with that in mind, a strong USC is good for us.

 

For me, having USC throwing $$ at recruits is just fine. We don't need those type of players. We want team players.

 

I believe we will win many, if not most, of our recruiting battles with them. DL and staff can and will hold their own.

The latest coaching hire from Kansas City shows me coach Dan is thinking ahead, wanting a strong recruiting and teaching team.

 

I personally would love to see us lead in every game by 30...it's easier on my heart! But all those wins when 'Joey and the heart attack kids ' played were very satisfying. 

So bring on USC. Bring on Utah.

Bring 'em all on. Cuz one by one we'll knock 'em all down.

 

[Darren Perkins]

Thanks, Charles. I knew it would get a solid response but it was way more than I thought it would be. Without a doubt the juiciest of the off-season!!

[HappyToBeADuck]

Charles great article. So many diverse points being made by OBD Forum members. I wanted to touch on your thoughts about why can't Oregon and USC be in the final four like 2 SEC teams. And the concern or fear of another PAC team overtaking the Ducks.

 

I believe 2 PAC teams can make the CFP.. Let's go back back to 2009 and compare the mutual road shared by Oregon and Stanford. They were the PAC Conference heavy weights. And both teams were national contenders. It benefited both schools to have a fierce rivalry on a national spot light level. If I made any errors I apologize on the following information.

 

2009

Stanford 8-5     Oregon 10-3 

                            (Rose Bowl)

2010

Stanford 12-1.  Oregon 12-1

(Orange Bowl)   (BCS Natty)

2011

Stanford 11-2.  Oregon 12-2

(Fiesta Bowl)    (Rose Bowl)

2012

Stanford 12-2.  Oregon 12-1

(Rose Bowl)      (FIesta Bowl)

2013

Stanford 11-3.  Oregon 11-2

(Rose Bowl)      (Alamo Bowl)

2014

Stanford 8-5.    Oregon 13-2

(Foster Farms  ( Rose & Natty)

2015

Stanford 12-2.   Oregon 9-4

(Rose Bowl)      (Disaster Bowl)

 

In 7 seasons the PAC played in 11 New Years 6 Bowls, including 2 Nattys. These 2 power houses dominated the PAC. ESPN ate it up and this brought increased revenues to the conference members.

 

Had the 4 team CFP been in place since 2010, there would have been a good chance of both being in the final four in 2 of those years. Let's not fear USC being a national power, along with Oregon and Utah. The PAC 12 Championship game should be played with the winner in the CFP. Get the scheduling cleaned up and we should have two 12-0 teams meeting every 3 or 4 years. Wouldn't that be nice.

 

The Rose Bowl should be the consolation prize most years. The PAC teams should stop complaining about the current system and just focus on dominating. As a side note u of w, not allowed........

[Guest Axel]

The USC Trojans have won 11 national championships. The Oregon Ducks, as we are painfully aware, have won 0 national championships.

 

A resurgent USC does not help the Ducks in their quest for that elusive first national title. Casual football fans can celebrate two Pac-12 powerhouses. As a Duck fan, I’m in favor of one—and only one—dominant program. And that program’s colors are not cardinal and gold.

 

USC fans, not surprisingly, wish no success for Oregon. They’d like the Ducks to revert back to the 70s and 80s, when we struggled to beat Sister Mary Elephant and the Little Sisters of the Poor.

 

What happens if a rejuvenated USC creates a decades-long Ducks drought of College Football Playoff appearances? I have a sneaking suspicion that we’ll no longer hear, “It’s more fun with a tougher USC,” “We need a strong USC in the Pac-12,” and, “I wish success for Lincoln Riley.”

[The Kamikaze Kid]

I wouldn’t call beauty pageant titles as winning anything.and that includes you too fuskies.

[Charles Fischer]

I completely understand and fear the outcome you present Axel, but my attitude at this point is...."it is what it is" and I cannot change it, so I am going to hope for epic showdowns with the Trojans that WE WIN.

 

Besides...we have not seen a full year of recruiting from the Lanning team, nor have we seen what they are going to do, scheme-wise on offense and defense.  If USC gets huge press, and then we beat them?

 

Making the best of it...I'd rather a Husky hire at USC as well.

 

Oh...here comes one now...

[DrJacksPlaidPants]

On 2/17/2022 at 2:09 PM, Duck1984 said:

In theory, or with a cupcake opponent for a first game, this strategy could work.

 

With Georgia as the season opener, the best performing QB at the end of Fall camp has to start.

Nix is known for beating better teams in the home opener at a “neutral” site. Well, he’s done it once anyway.

[Quackerbacker]

What if, what if, what if..  What if Oregon with Dan Lanning continues to recruit Top ten classes and outcoaches the Riley staff and beats a strong USC most of the time.  With two strong programs the revenue dollars increase dramatically allowing the Pac-12 to elevate itself nationally above the ACC and on par with the Big-10 and the SEC.  What if due to this resurgence the PAC-12 gets two teams into the playoffs on several occasions and Oregon wins the Playoff Championship.    What if...

 

Just for reference in the South it's all about the SEC.  If it's not Alabama,  it's Georgia, if not Georgia, Texas A & M or Florida etc.  If your from the south you root for your team first and the SEC second.  Not sure why in the PAC-12 footprint we have a hard time with that.  

[Quackerbacker]

Caveat:  I can't root for the Huskies to ever be that good.

[Jon Joseph]

On 2/18/2022 at 2:27 PM, Axel said:

The USC Trojans have won 11 national championships. The Oregon Ducks, as we are painfully aware, have won 0 national championships.

 

A resurgent USC does not help the Ducks in their quest for that elusive first national title. Casual football fans can celebrate two Pac-12 powerhouses. As a Duck fan, I’m in favor of one—and only one—dominant program. And that program’s colors are not cardinal and gold.

 

USC fans, not surprisingly, wish no success for Oregon. They’d like the Ducks to revert back to the 70s and 80s, when we struggled to beat Sister Mary Elephant and the Little Sisters of the Poor.

 

What happens if a rejuvenated USC creates a decades-long Ducks drought of College Football Playoff appearances? I have a sneaking suspicion that we’ll no longer hear, “It’s more fun with a tougher USC,” “We need a strong USC in the Pac-12,” and, “I wish success for Lincoln Riley.”

Great take. But 2 or even 3 teams in the top 10 make the path to the playoff far easier. The Pac-12 is not situated on the east coast as is Clemson and the Pac-12 does not have a network owned and operated by ESPN. To be more than a CFB after thought the conference has to put winning teams on the field and have success OOC including not losing to MW teams. 

 

As you so correctly noted, SC has 11 CFB titles. SC is the conference blue blood. The team that even folks in SEC country recognize. It will significantly help media negotiations come 2024 if the conference has a viable playoff contender in LA. 

 

My dream is to have SC and Oregon ranked in the top 5 when they meet in Las Vegas in the title game. This means the winner is likely in the final 4 and the loser is playing in a NY6 Bowl.

[Jon Joseph]

On 2/18/2022 at 2:45 PM, Quackerbacker said:

What if, what if, what if..  What if Oregon with Dan Lanning continues to recruit Top ten classes and outcoaches the Riley staff and beats a strong USC most of the time.  With two strong programs the revenue dollars increase dramatically allowing the Pac-12 to elevate itself nationally above the ACC and on par with the Big-10 and the SEC.  What if due to this resurgence the PAC-12 gets two teams into the playoffs on several occasions and Oregon wins the Playoff Championship.    What if...

 

Just for reference in the South it's all about the SEC.  If it's not Alabama,  it's Georgia, if not Georgia, Texas A & M or Florida etc.  If your from the south you root for your team first and the SEC second.  Not sure why in the PAC-12 footprint we have a hard time with that.  

Great take. Close in on the B1G and SEC financially? That's a big ask. But the Pac-12 certainly has a shot at being 3rd in the P5 pecking order.

[Guest Axel]

On 2/18/2022 at 12:29 PM, cartm25 said:

I'd like to make a small distinction. Those of us on the OBD forum that don't want a powerful USC are fully capable of accepting what IS.

 

But wishing/hoping for USC to return to glory, and accepting circumstances as they are - or will be - are two different things.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong @Axel, but what we're trying to convey to those rooting for USC's return to power (hasn't happened yet) is a warning: "Be careful what you wish for. The consequences might not result in the outcome(s) you desire for OBD."

cartm25, you've summed up my sentiments perfectly. 

 

I accept the reality of what's going on at USC, but I don't welcome it and I don't like it. I harbor decades of antipathy toward USC. In the all-time series, the Ducks are only 22-38 against the Trojans. I see no reason to root for USC's success, no matter how it may benefit the Pac-12 as a whole. 

[Darren Perkins]

On 2/18/2022 at 1:40 PM, Axel said:

cartm25, you've summed up my sentiments perfectly. 

 

I accept the reality of what's going on at USC, but I don't welcome it and I don't like it. I harbor decades of antipathy toward USC. In the all-time series, the Ducks are only 22-38 against the Trojans. I see no reason to root for USC's success, no matter how it may benefit the Pac-12 as a whole. 

 

Just for fun I looked up the Trojans all-time win percentage against all Pac-12 teams. Of which, of course, they have a winning record against all.

 

UCLA .590

ASU .622

UW .624

Ducks .629

Stanford .641

Utah .650

 

All else are pretty awful (Buffs 0-15, 100%, yikes), but the above 6 are pretty close together. 

[30Duck]

On 2/18/2022 at 11:48 AM, Jon Joseph said:

My dream is to have SC and Oregon ranked in the top 5 when they meet in Las Vegas in the title game. This means the winner is likely in the final 4 and the loser is playing in a NY6 Bowl.

Yes, that is the plan, Oregon and USC's chances of making that happen depend on both being really good. Oklahoma ruled the Big 12, made it to the Invitational. The Sooners were the guy the other players loved to see at the poker game, as they were way out of their league. Get the Pac-12 so that like the SEC, when you lose a conference game, you drop from No.3 to No.5.

 

 

[Duck 1972]

On 2/18/2022 at 11:27 AM, Axel said:

The USC Trojans have won 11 national championships. The Oregon Ducks, as we are painfully aware, have won 0 national championships.

 

A resurgent USC does not help the Ducks in their quest for that elusive first national title. Casual football fans can celebrate two Pac-12 powerhouses. As a Duck fan, I’m in favor of one—and only one—dominant program. And that program’s colors are not cardinal and gold.

 

USC fans, not surprisingly, wish no success for Oregon. They’d like the Ducks to revert back to the 70s and 80s, when we struggled to beat Sister Mary Elephant and the Little Sisters of the Poor.

 

What happens if a rejuvenated USC creates a decades-long Ducks drought of College Football Playoff appearances? I have a sneaking suspicion that we’ll no longer hear, “It’s more fun with a tougher USC,” “We need a strong USC in the Pac-12,” and, “I wish success for Lincoln Riley.”

Axel and Crtman I agree with both you but the genie is out of the bottle. Here's my take on the issue.

 

The reason the SEC and BIG 10 are so dominate is they have so many good to great teams. Iron sharpens iron, playing against the best will make you better. That's why they get the best players and the most money.  

 

If we can't beat a great USC how can we compete with the blue bloods back East and South. I would always like to be there, but to then lose badly like OU isn't something I want either.

 

I believe that's what is needed for the PAC not just to get to the PO but win. I also believe we are going to be able to do so with a DL defense, a SEC offense and top 10 recruiting classes year in and year out.

 

We may lose in the end but bring it on USC. You are going to have to take the league back from us on the field of play, then we'll see who is walking the walk and not just talking the talk.

 

We'll win some lose some but in the end it can only help both of us as long as a majority of the PAC also gets better soon.

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Duck 1972
Missing info

[Guest Axel]

On 2/19/2022 at 2:44 AM, Duck 1972 said:

We'll win some lose some but in the end it can only help both of us as long as a majority of the PAC also gets better soon.

Conference parity is a double-edged sword. If all the teams in the Pac-12 get stronger, the Pac-12 will gain more respectability nationwide, but Oregon will face a rockier road to the College Football Playoff.

 

Should the Ducks face super-competitive teams in each of their nine conference games, iron may sharpen iron, but there comes a breaking point. Tougher competition stresses players, fatigues them, wears them down, and creates the risk of serious injuries.

 

The SEC has the good sense to play an eight-game conference schedule and its teams benefit from a cupcake game in November. The Ducks get no such breather.

 

Discounting a 4-0 record in 1895, the Ducks have never had a perfect season. To reach that goal, even a supercharged Ducks team will need to catch a few breaks—a favorable non-conference schedule, a few gimmes among conference foes, and a South team that we can defeat in the Pac-12 championship.

 

A balanced Pac-12 with resurgent programs in USC and Washington will create closer, more exciting games. But it will make it that much more difficult for the Ducks to be dominant.

[30Duck]

On 2/19/2022 at 9:47 AM, Axel said:

But it will make it that much more difficult for the Ducks to be dominant.

This is where the divide seems to be in this debate. I want the Pac-12 to make it difficult for the Ducks to be dominant. Oklahoma dominated a weak Big 12, got to the CFP, and got blown out. Playing a weak conference schedule won't help the Ducks.

 

It will lead to lack of focus. We saw that with Clemson during their run, Syracuse had no business being in a game with them. I want the Ducks to understand that every play, every game deserves their full attention. Let's have Lanning's Ducks be the first Pac-12 team to go 9-0. Of course, it would be fine if Washington went 0-12 again. 

[Guest Axel]

On 2/19/2022 at 10:13 AM, 30Duck said:

It will lead to lack of focus. We saw that with Clemson during their run

I will gladly settle for a three-year "lack of focus" run, in which the Ducks, playing in a so-so Pac-12, compile a 41-3 record, compete in three College Football Playoffs, and win two national championships, including a 44-16 pasting of Alabama to cap a perfect 15-0 season.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Axel

[Mike West]

On 2/17/2022 at 7:49 PM, HappyToBeADuck said:

As a side note u of w, not allowed........

 

I hate the Fuskies as much as anybody ( those nauseating Rose Bowl chants in Autzen when they were dominant still makes my blood boil).

 

That said, I would much rather watch us beat a powerhouse Fusky team than the lame version we've seen since Peterson left.  

 

Nothing satisfies me more than ruining Fusky title hopes.  Not to mention, when the Fuskies are relevant, so is the conference.

 

If we want a better TV revenue stream, USC and UW must be powerhouse programs.  They get as many if not more eyeballs nationwide than we do.

 

 

 

 

[Jon Joseph]

On 2/19/2022 at 12:47 PM, Axel said:

Conference parity is a double-edged sword. If all the teams in the Pac-12 get stronger, the Pac-12 will gain more respectability nationwide, but Oregon will face a rockier road to the College Football Playoff.

 

Should the Ducks face super-competitive teams in each of their nine conference games, iron may sharpen iron, but there comes a breaking point. Tougher competition stresses players, fatigues them, wears them down, and creates the risk of serious injuries.

 

The SEC has the good sense to play an eight-game conference schedule and its teams benefit from a cupcake game in November. The Ducks get no such breather.

 

Discounting a 4-0 record in 1895, the Ducks have never had a perfect season. To reach that goal, even a supercharged Ducks team will need to catch a few breaks—a favorable non-conference schedule, a few gimmes among conference foes, and a South team that we can defeat in the Pac-12 championship.

 

A balanced Pac-12 with resurgent programs in USC and Washington will create closer, more exciting games. But it will make it that much more difficult for the Ducks to be dominant.

Good call Axel. I'll be surprised if the SEC does not go tp pods, get rid of divisions and play 9 when OK/TX join up. But regarding the in-conference play and looking at Pac-12 recruiting, the Pac-12 is a long way from the SEC and B1G when it comes to competition. The Pac-12 N is a heck of a lot easier than the B1G E and the SEC W.

 

 

[Quackerbacker]

Agree with you Mike and Jon.  Ok I puked a little in my mouth when you said you wanted a strong Husky team.  But I do like the idea of pods rather than divisions.  More like the Premier league for soccer.  Makes alot of sense.   

[Haywarduck]

Iron sharpens iron, but iron against iron dulls the blade. In the weight room and the practice field we want to see iron against iron. On the field we want to see that iron chopping wood. Break those opponents apart and set them ablaze with our sharpness. Every once in a while we can see iron against iron, but then you need time to sharpen the blade again. 

 

This is why an 8 game conference schedule is important. It is also why Alabama plays New Mexico State late in the season. They know you need time to sharpen the blade and going against top competition every week doesn't do it. I think the Oregon Program needs to understand better what it takes to sharpen and what it takes to beat elite competition. Playing Stony Brook was brilliant after the tosu game. Playing a 9 game conference schedule isn't so smart.

 

If the Pac-12 wants to put one or more teams into the playoffs, and be successful there needs to be structural changes. Hiring great coaches and putting money into facilities helps. We also need strong, shrewd leadership from the commissioner, and I haven't seen too much of that, yet. The time is now to makes some moves, George!

[Guest Axel]

On 2/19/2022 at 12:55 PM, Mike West said:

Nothing satisfies me more than ruining Fusky title hopes.

There is something to be said about ruining a rival’s title hopes. One of my fondest memories is attending the 2008 Civil War in Corvallis, when the Ducks destroyed the Beavers’ Rose Bowl dream, 65-38.

 

My most satisfying recollection of that game was seeing dozens of red roses strewn across the Reser Stadium carpet. Broken-hearted Beaver fans had flung the roses from the stands as time ran out.

 

However, I do not want the Ducks to ruin any future Washington Husky title hopes for the simple reason that I never want the Huskies to be any good.

 

When the “Big One” violently shakes the Pacific Northwest, as seismologists predict it will, my fervent wish is that the quake is confined to a tiny sliver of land on the shore of Lake Washington and that a certain 70,138-seat stadium is swallowed up by Mother Earth. Yes, the stadium can be empty. After all, I am more than capable of magnanimity.  

[Mike West]

On 2/18/2022 at 11:50 AM, Jon Joseph said:

Great take. Close in on the B1G and SEC financially? That's a big ask. But the Pac-12 certainly has a shot at being 3rd in the P5 pecking order.

 

I like your ideas better... Merge with the Big12.

 

Expand the footprint.  That garners better time slots for games, gets more eyeballs per game, and gives the less successful programs a shot at avoiding a super conference of blue bloods. 

 

I also liked that ideas of going the way European Soccer leagues run things.  That gives the G5 schools a shot of playing in the P5(P4?) conferences when they win their conferences ( actually their Division).

 

The bottom teams from the major conferences ( in each respective division) fall to the lower division until they with that division.  In addition, it would be great if the power conferences found ways to augment the revenue stream of the lower divisions ( an actual playoff would be better in my mind). 

 

When ESPN started televising the MAC and the other G5 conferences I thought that was so cool.  It gave exposure to most athletes without diminishing the quality of the major conferences.  I don't want to see that go away.